• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Why Skype and a TV Tuner Could Be Killer Apps

ShdwDrake

Banned
He said it would have a tv tuner it hasnt.

True but he's obviously more privy to a lot more information on these things than we are.

Also I 100% agree on the Skype front. I Skype my family and they are constantly trying to all be on the iPad at the same time while passing it around. Being all on the couch would get rid of this.
 

Striek

Member
was pachter on to the xbone or am I reading this wrong?

In a broad sense that MS saw Skype and TV as important, yes. In the details, well, its a wait and see whether Skype is the killer app he thinks it might be (it was never in doubt that the next Xbox would have Skype), and the next-Xbox doesn't have a TV tuner, nor (atm) are MS offering IPTV or partnering with IP providers (though MS have flirted with it many times in the past). Similarily they are not replacing the cable box, they're supplementing it in a more contrived offering.



So kinda, but not really?
 

hardvibes

Member
I already have skype on my laptop and cellphone
I already have a tv tuner

so...

only+two+i+have+_0e445722ea6b8734bf334a705b77a976.gif
 

syko de4d

Member
Skype is nice but what it make Skype really good on xbox one is the Snap function.

i hope you can play and have snapped Skype on the right side. Would be great for playing coop or against each other in games like Fifa :D

Skype snap was the only function i liked at the X1 reveal.

But PS4 has PS eye, maybe we will get a small Video Chat while gaming there too :)

And the TV stuff ist 100% meaningless for me as a european guy.
 

BigDug13

Member
Bottom line is that there is nothing "must have" that Xbox One is presenting that the Ps4 with its own included camera is not capable of. The fact that so much money was sunk Into a specific image recognition camera with its own processor means nothing if all the features that consumers really want are available on the much cheaper camera of your competitor. I'm waiting on why I need this HAL style camera that sees and hears all and can recognize faces and gestures. I don't play dance games.
 

sun-drop

Member
Has pachter made any comments since the one reveal? Being simply a pass through and not even providing any DVR functionality.... Totally destroyed his "cable companies will give you one discounted" idea.... Which was his main one all along for ms winning this round.

Only discount you'll see if any will be the bog standard concept of 12 or so mths of xblive.... And sony could do exactly the same on a whim.

Imo... Brought outright... I bet thanks to more focused approach sony took... I bet ps4 ends up cheaper at launch.
 

jaypah

Member
why won't skype be on PS4?
Vita already got it, so does every IOS and android device ;)

It probably will be on PS4. No idea if it'll be as well integrated as X1 considering MS supposedly set aside system resources for that type of shit. Also no idea what your wink means.
 

DrLazy

Member
Skype was the only non-game feature that I thought was cool about Xbox One. That could be really awesome, to skype with the TV. I could see using it while gaming and also to just throw a family member who couldn't make it home for the Holidays on the living room TV so he could chat with the group. I don't agree with people who say "I can skype on my PC! Who cares!"

Pachter was right not he money when it came to TV tuner, unfortunately Xbox doesn't have one. I believe Microsoft wanted one, but decided it'd be too hard.
  • They know they'd have to partner with cable companies to try to replace the cable box, but Cable companies were probably unwilling to give up their lucrative DVR rental charge business.
  • They SHOULD have looked into adding a powerful free HD attenna and a DVR. They could then have encouraged their consumers to "cut the cord" and replace the cable company.
  • Instead they chose to partner with cable companies. They replace exactly 0 devices (as a supposed convergence device). They could have been the all-in-one, but they aren't. The Xbone doesn't even synch with your DVR, meaning you CANT use it for watching tv all the time. You still have to switch back to your normal cable box viewing in order to use the DVR. ITS USELESS.

They have a couple of TV features:
  • TV Guide: Are you fucking serious? Who gives a shit? Every cable subscriber already has this.
  • Fantasy football stats on the tv could be cool for a hardcore fan, but I think most would find it annoying and rather just check their phone.
  • Quick Switching from Gaming to TV is cool, but I don't think its a gamechanger. But its a nice little feature.
 

BigDug13

Member
But this assumes Skype is something that won't be possible with PS4. I'm willing to bet with their own camera that they'll get a Skype app.
 

FlyFaster

Member
Some of you asked why I had "predictions" now, instead of waiting for all of the details on pricing, features, specs and launch date to be announced? The answer is that SXSW was last weekend, and I had to write something. I may be wrong, but it's my best thinking as of now. Once we learn the details of the next Xbox, I'll modify my "predictions".

Hope that helps some of you to understand my madness a bit better.

Badass. lol I love it. +10 cool points pach.
 
My grandma is never going to find Skype on an Xbox One feasible, nor using it as a cable box practical. There is a psychological block there about new tech that will never be lifted. Maybe there are a lot more tech savvy grandparents out there than I understand, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say this audience is wholly inaccessible to MS. Hell, generally anything beyond Windows is totally beyond even my parents (and they've even had a hell of a time transitioning to using Windows 8).

These markets... I just don't think they exist.
 

jaypah

Member
  • Instead they chose to partner with cable companies. They replace exactly 0 devices (as a supposed convergence device). They could have been the all-in-one, but they aren't. The Xbone doesn't even synch with your DVR, meaning you CANT use it for watching tv all the time. You still have to switch back to your normal cable box viewing in order to use the DVR. ITS USELESS.

I still think it's worthwhile to be able to access the X1 overlay for games, Skype, internet explorer etc. while using my cable box interface. I mean, my only HDMI-out from my cable box is going to the X1. If I can't access it through the X1 how else would I get to it? It no longer is connected to my tv.
 

Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
But this assumes Skype is something that won't be possible with PS4. I'm willing to bet with their own camera that they'll get a Skype app.
MS owns Skype, he's assuming they wont port it over to the PS4 cause MS sees it as a killer app. I wouldn't call it a killer app, but I do think they'll keep it away from Sony consoles so they can have it as a bullet point.
 

Quasar

Member
I dunno.

Thinking about my anecdotal experience and of those I know I don't see them as killer features.

1. I don't actually know anyone who uses skype regularly. The exceptions are those who need to make cheap international voice calls.
2. For TV, everyone I know who actually watches live TV (which is small in terms of folks who are likely to buy a console) uses tuners that are built into TVs.

So not terribly compelling in terms of selling a 500$ box.
 

jaypah

Member
I dunno.

Thinking about my anecdotal experience and of those I know I don't see them as killer features.

1. I don't actually know anyone who uses skype regularly. The exceptions are those who need to make cheap international voice calls.
2. For TV, everyone I know who actually watches live TV (which is small in terms of folks who are likely to buy a console) uses tuners that are built into TVs.

So not terribly compelling in terms of selling a 500$ box.

That's probably where the games come in. "What games?". I know, I know.
 

BigDug13

Member
Microsoft owns Skype.

So? Microsoft owns Windows Phone as well and still wants me to use Skype on my iPhone. They still want Mac users to use it. It's not exclusive to windows. Skype is available on PSP and PSV. Money spent per minute is money spent per minute using Skype which equates to money in MS's pocket. It's the service they want you to use, even if its on competing hardware. That's why I can read kindle books using my kindle app on kindle's competing device, my ipad.

It's not the XBone trump card people are making it out to be and I honestly would not be surprised if the PS4 ended up with a Skype app.
 
So? Microsoft owns Windows Phone as well and still wants me to use Skype on my iPhone. They still want Mac users to use it. It's not exclusive to windows. Skype is available on PSP and PSV. Money spent per minute is money spent per minute using Skype which equates to money in MS's pocket. It's the service they want you to use, even if its on competing hardware. That's why I can read kindle books using my kindle app on kindle's competing device, my ipad.

It's not the PS4 trump card people are making it out to be and I honestly would not be surprised if the PS4 ended up with a Skype app.


Skype was on most portable devices before Microsoft acquired them (2012), Skype is not on PS3 or Wii U for example.
 

dagamer34

Neo Member
So? Microsoft owns Windows Phone as well and still wants me to use Skype on my iPhone. They still want Mac users to use it. It's not exclusive to windows. Skype is available on PSP and PSV. Money spent per minute is money spent per minute using Skype which equates to money in MS's pocket. It's the service they want you to use, even if its on competing hardware. That's why I can read kindle books using my kindle app on kindle's competing device, my ipad.

It's not the XBone trump card people are making it out to be and I honestly would not be surprised if the PS4 ended up with a Skype app.

Could they end up with it? Sure. We still have no idea though if the PS4 is going to allow for multiple apps running at once though. All depends on the amount of RAM they have reserved. I doubt Sony wants to get caught in another "no system wide party chat for PS3" situation.
 
So after MS acquisition they allowed a cable company to start using it, as well as a competing Logitech living room entertainment hub device to start using it. Doesn't sound like they're trying to exclude willing parties.

Microsoft is not against TVs or cable providers.
 

BigDug13

Member
It seems like a bad road to take for Skype. So I guess when licenses run out, iPhone and android will also lose Skype because it competes with windows phone?
 

Mario007

Member
Couldn't Sony just go to google and license a hangout app? Hangouts are way better than skype anyway and pretty much anyone with an android phone has one already.
 

BigDug13

Member
Then, it is easier to think Microsoft will develop a PS4 client...

I just like to give companies the benefit of the doubt to not torpedo their own acquisitions. It sounds like eventually Skype will only be available on Microsoft products. I just wonder what the state of Kindle book sales would have been if they denied apps on android and iOS. Seems dumb to cut off one source of revenue in minute purchases on Skype for the sake of hardware exclusivity. But whatever. Someone else will take over and become the main video call app I suppose.
 
What a bunch of no senses. Is the OP a MS PR guy, or just a fanboy?

How will Pachter deal with such an elegant riposte?

If you're reading this Pachter, please note that we juniors aren't all like this. Check the appreciation thread for proof if you haven't seen it already!
 
I just like to give companies the benefit of the doubt to not torpedo their own acquisitions. It sounds like eventually Skype will only be available on Microsoft products. I just wonder what the state of Kindle book sales would have been if they denied apps on android and iOS. Seems dumb to cut off one source of revenue in minute purchases on Skype for the sake of hardware exclusivity. But whatever. Someone else will take over and become the main video call app I suppose.


What I mean is Microsoft choose Skype platforms. If MS think it is better to have a Skype client on PS4, then it will have one, but PS3 has not a client yet, with 70+million users.
 

Satchel

Banned
Wish Pachter had mentioned me in that doco. Because I know I was one of those less than 10 posts he was talking about.
 

goomba

Banned
skypes been going downhill since microsoft bought it. nobody i know is online there anymore (or maybe they all blocked me lol)

oh and my tv has skype , i have never used it
 
Are you kidding?

EDIT: A Skype time-line: http://skypeblogs.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/skype-timeline-v5-2.pdf

Vita version was before Microsoft acquisition.
According to the PDF you posted Vita has Skype after Microsoft acquired Skype. It is in the long term best interests of Skype that all network connected platforms have Skype.....Free.

Microsoft can provide features and better performance for Skype with software so while I expect Skype to be everywhere, the picture quality and features offered will be better on Microsoft partner platforms and the Xbox/Surface platforms.

As to the PS3, it has broken encryption keys and IPTV apps and Sony enterprise Apps force reboots to insure a clean "Root of Trust"OS. Vita (has a Trustzone cpu) got a GPU accelerated Browser update and the PS3 didn't. For the first time since the Vita release, the GTKwebkit2 APIs (both Vita and PS3 use the same APIs) were used in a Vita update but not in a PS3 update.

The PS3 is using Adobe Flash AVM+ for non commercial DASH IPTV. They can not use AVM+ for commercial DASH without paying a Fee. Sony announced nearly a year ago that they would use Playready DRM with a DASH player on their network connected platforms. PS3 low level is using OpenMax IL and then on top of that a AVM+ player. A few months ago Gstreamer 1.0 was released and it will now plug in to OpenMax IL.

DLNA, Video Chat and IPTV require a video player and should use a common player with extensions to support Variable bitrate (DASH). DLNA and Video Chat are overdue for updates and fixes. Commercial IPTV is supported with APPS that contain their own player that plugs into OpenMax IL; likely either Flash AVM+ or now Gstreamer.

Either nothing is coming or a major update to everything is coming and Sony is waiting to introduce it all at once. A 22nm PS3 refresh is coming and it will likely include a new encryption scheme based on ARM trustzone. Game side likely will remain the same but the APP or XMB for the PS3 would need to be rewritten and a break in PS3 firmware at that point. If it's coming this year then a FCC leak might happen around June and a major PS3 firmware update around Oct 2013.

Seems counter productive but along with a PS4 at $399 should be a PS3 at $149 with features that compare with the PS4. It's either that or you kill PS3 sales rather than get the new buyers that happen at the lower price point.

Skype isn't on PS3, and won't be on PS4, because it doesn't need it, they already have a video chat app. The only possible reason for it is on the rare occasions when you would be talking to someone who is using a different device. If your contact is on a PS3 or 4 then you use the inbuilt video chat app.

With the encoder chip I would hope that Sony can make it snappable to an in-game window without affecting resources. The live-share feature is proof that video info is streamable straight onto the network on an OS-level. Why you'd want to be visible while playing a game is beyond me, and the utter failure of all forms of video chat over the decades proves that its not something anyone feels comfortable enough to use on a casual basis.
The video chat app on the PS3 sucks eggs. It needs:
1) Video Noise correction for the camera which would reduce bandwidth needs
2) Dash variable bitrate to keep it from stuttering
3) A better codec to reduce bandwidth needs.
4) Automatic noise and echo cancelling (most of us don't know that you have to go into setting to set the echo canceling)
5) The ability to call outside the PSN Friends to other devices. That's not software, that requires a server that's updated when you go online and sign into PSN. It registers that you are on-line and the IP Address including port # behind your firewall. Google Talk and Skype both need the same thing. Beyond that it's just APIs and standards.

For Skype to work with Sony PSN registered platforms, the PSN server needs to talk to the Skype server and register the PSN users on line and how to get to them (IP Address and port).
 

RayMaker

Banned
It would be great for old people who have trouble with working there tv.

Afterall, how can anyone mess up saying ''xbox on'', ''channel 40'', ''record series''.

and it is a fact the the majority of people do not have a 1080p camera attached to the tv and have the ability to skype from the tv.

These things will appeal to the mass market which may lead to the X1's Market dominance.

Unless PS4 has a skype app? which i dont see why it would not be allowed to since android and IOS have skype apps to
 
A must watch consumer (easy to follow) video presentation with a peek into the future that a Game console which hopes to command the living room must support.

HSA Foundation Keynote @ IFA 2012

I'd suggest skipping to (Times not exact)
11:30 Media Processing (AR & More)
14:00 Peek into the future
15:00 AOAC low power and no wait for User mode Voice and Gesture Recognition
19:00 Natural User Interface
21:00 AR
33:45 HSA & Video - AV Content Management
41:50 Cloud editing
50:00 Summary


Also, LOW POWER and AOAC is again mentioned....... There are two reasons for low power; 1) without it heat kills and limits the processing that can be in a chip (TDP), 2) EPA rules for features that are used everyday for long periods of time are now or will be regulated. AOAC includes instant on as well as background server. Consumers will not accept devices that force them to wait on a boot.

Speculation:

We have been given hints that BOTH the XB1 and PS4 support the above Media Plans. That both have an AUX port for the Kinect (XB1) and Stereo Camera (PS4) mean that both have low power support for Gesture/Facial and Voice recognition. The USB3 port is active when the AMD's GPU/APU is active, having/using the AUX port when USB3 can support this implies the USB port and APU may not be active when the Stereo camera on the PS4, for example, is being used.

Low power support for NUI implies low power support for Media playback also. For the PS4 it also implies a low power GPGPU for Gesture/facial recognition. XB1 has this in the Kinect camera but the PS4 must do this in the Console.

So two modes for the game consoles; Media (low power) and Game (high power). Low power and AOAC for the features in the HSA video and Game mode with everything on. There is also that the system fully powered can be a local powerful "Cloud server" (Games Gaikai like, Distributed processing and more) for handhelds in the home or in lower power just a RVU DVR and Mpeg to h.264 converter.

HSA Standards are now published (.95). Key appears to be the IOMMU, at page 17 in this AMD PDF is a description which clears up some questions I've had. 32 bit hardware can work with a 64 bit X86-64 system. IOMMU protects memory page tables and the chart implies it's a major part of connecting multiple HSA modules together through the fabric controller.

There are two articles I'd like to reference: 1) AMD says IOMMU v2.5 driver support is critical for porting Linux to work with Kaveri (which also probably applies to all 2013 APU/SoC). 2) AMD is also going to support multiple OS's on these chips; mentioned was Chrome and Android which require a Linux kernel.

I'm guessing IOMMU v2.5 is needed to support the AMD Trustzone processor and HSAIL. HSAIL/HSA needed with Android to support the HSA Media vision.
 

Jotaka

Member
About ISP data cap

In my country, at least, the internet is delivery mostly by wire (cable television or old wired phone). To build an cellphone tower is cheaper than cable all streets in a neighborhood. The bandwidth require for voice communication is small in comparison of digital video content.
 
Top Bottom