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Microsoft investing $700 million in data centre to support cloud service & Xbox Live

S

seanoff

Member
Marleyman said:
My question just a few posts before. How this is being spun into a negative is psychotic.
Click to expand...

if you believe they are spending $700M on servers for XBL, seek help.

This is and Azure expansion, nothing more, nothing less. some resources may be tasked to XBL if needed. any talk by MS about XBL being an integral part is marketing, that's the current push in the consumer space, so lets mention it even if the point of this project is way beyond that.

the XBL service currently runs on about 5000. investment in a 60X jump would be irresponsible and totally unnecessary.

maybe they'll offer more games with dedicated servers, maybe they wont, who knows. what we do know is they'll be continuing to expand their cloud offerings, media (music, movies, TV ), data, scalable hosting, web apps, mobile apps etc. XBL probably comes in under scalable hosting. this $700M goes to all of that of which XBL might be a part.
 
D

dengatron

Member
While I understand that this is for Microsoft's infrastructure as a whole, I really would like word on the percentage of titles that will be using dedicated servers for online play, not just matchmaking. So far we've heard that COD:Ghostdogs won't be. Maybe others will opt out? Maybe they're not being provided for free and are instead still just being offered as a service. Wouldn't Amazon ec2 be the better choice at that point for most third party devs so they could be used for both platforms?
 
L

Louis Cyphre

Banned
seanoff said:
if you believe they are spending $700M on servers for XBL, seek help.

This is and Azure expansion, nothing more, nothing less. some resources may be tasked to XBL if needed. any talk by MS about XBL being an integral part is marketing, that's the current push in the consumer space, so lets mention it even if the point of this project is way beyond that.

the XBL service currently runs on about 5000. investment in a 60X jump would be irresponsible and totally unnecessary.

maybe they'll offer more games with dedicated servers, maybe they wont, who knows. what we do know is they'll be continuing to expand their cloud offerings, media (music, movies, TV ), data, scalable hosting, web apps, mobile apps etc. XBL probably comes in under scalable hosting. this $700M goes to all of that of which XBL might be a part.
Click to expand...

There is no maybe, it's been confirmed for games like Forza 5 and TitanFall.
 
K

kingocfs

Member
PSN has a lot of catching up to do to be worth paying to play online for, that's for sure. Good on MS for trying to improve an already great multiplayer service, $700 mill or not.
 
L

Louis Cyphre

Banned
kingocfs said:
PSN has a lot of catching up to do to be worth paying to play online for, that's for sure. Good on MS for trying to improve an already great multiplayer service, $700 mill or not.
Click to expand...

And it all starts from the user experience. Xbox Live has shown how to join, host and cue matchmaking in a quick and easy fashion. They also look to expand the reputation system to weed out the wankers.
 
S

Silly.Mikey

Banned
kingocfs said:
PSN has a lot of catching up to do to be worth paying to play online for, that's for sure. Good on MS for trying to improve an already great multiplayer service, $700 mill or not.
Click to expand...

Well this whole deti servers thing makes Live even more worth it now for sure. Sony definitely has catching up to do still .
 
Sub_Level

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
All im saying is that if ms lets me rent an x1 titanfall server i will buy it so hard. I promise it wont have any weird options set like low-gravity and stuff either. The server will be called "Secret Gaf Clubhouse"
 
M

methane47

Member
What annoys me most about this thread is that for the next months or years, Xbox Fanboys are going to continuously tell me that Xbox has 300,000 dedicated cloud servers, and MS spent 700 million on the Xbox infrastructure.

When in reality this is about their Cloud service, independant of Xbox.

Furthermore, we have not gotten any details of the Cost of the cloud to developers, so for all intents and purposes, this Cloud is no different from Other clouds available to any developer.
 
F

famousmortimer

Banned
Even games Sony sent off to die last gen like Resistance 3 had dedicated servers. The issue between the ps3 and 360 was party chat. When it came to peer to peer vs dedicated servers the PS3 was head and shoulders above MS.


Microsoft is making big, expensive moves to go full dedicated servers - which is awesome. I hope Sony has similar plans. But it's not like Sony hasn't ever heard of a dedicated server before. In fact I can't think of a first party game that was peer to peer? EA already provides dedicated servers for their games (except sports games are still peer to peer). I don't think Sony is as far behind in having dedicated servers as some of you think...
 
entremet

entremet

Member
famousmortimer said:
Even games Sony sent off to die last gen like Resistance 3 had dedicated servers. The issue between the ps3 and 360 was party chat. When it came to peer to peer vs dedicated servers the PS3 was head and shoulders above MS.


Microsoft is making big, expensive moves to go full dedicated servers - which is awesome. I hope Sony has similar plans. But it's not like Sony hasn't ever heard of a dedicated server before. In fact I can't think of a first party game that was peer to peer? EA already provides dedicated servers for their games (except sports games are still peer to peer). I don't think Sony is as far behind in having dedicated servers as some of you think...
Click to expand...
I agree. Cross game invites were also key.
 
P

PanicFreak

Member
Sp33Demon said:
I may be looking at this totally wrong or just misunderstanding but this really doesn't sound like a lot of money for a 300,000 -server cloud.

$700,000,000/300,000 servers = $2,333 per server. As an Enterprise Architect who deals cloud servers for probably one of the largest vendors for such hardware and services, that cost per box is very low even for virtualized platforms. Given all the stuff they say is going to be done in the cloud and the dynamic nature of what these servers are doing, they really will be getting a ton of mileage out of these servers for the money.
Click to expand...

Two things you are not thinking of: 1) the article says that the servers will "primarily" be used for Xbox Live which means you would have to apply some sort of carve out and 2) this can't be the only data center used for Xbox Live. Those two things would probably increase the overall cost per server.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
i hope this means destiny co-op will be lag free on xbox one
 
L

Louis Cyphre

Banned
famousmortimer said:
Even games Sony sent off to die last gen like Resistance 3 had dedicated servers. The issue between the ps3 and 360 was party chat. When it came to peer to peer vs dedicated servers the PS3 was head and shoulders above MS.


Microsoft is making big, expensive moves to go full dedicated servers - which is awesome. I hope Sony has similar plans. But it's not like Sony hasn't ever heard of a dedicated server before. In fact I can't think of a first party game that was peer to peer? EA already provides dedicated servers for their games (except sports games are still peer to peer). I don't think Sony is as far behind in having dedicated servers as some of you think...
Click to expand...

Sony does have them in games like Warhawk. Microsoft is making this more than just about dedicated servers because they are talking about using the power of the cloud to offload some of the demands on the console. That remains to be seen how it all works but after listening to Ted Price and the boys about Sunset Overdrive it sounds interesting. They won't say much about it yet. I don;t know if it's purely marketing spin from them and Respawn Entertainment but they both said the Xbox One allows them to do cloud gaming like we haven't seen before.
 
S

Silly.Mikey

Banned
op_ivy said:
i hope this means destiny co-op will be lag free on xbox one
Click to expand...

I dont see why not.

It gives the incentive to Bungie and others to support Xbox One games even more. The servers are already in place for everyone to use. This will definitely appeal to the dev studios.
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
Liamario said:
5000 servers to 300000 servers. I'm a bit sceptical that they'll be used exclusively for Xbox live.
That said, it does go to explain the tificulous DRM policy they had in place. Got to pay that bill somehow.
Click to expand...

I'm on the same page as you here. I have no idea why anybody would need to make such an abrupt upgrade to their backend. Nor why they're put all their servers in said upgrade, at a single location. Usually you try to spread your servers around, to create redundancy, and to reduce latency between consumers and the servers.
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
famousmortimer said:
Even games Sony sent off to die last gen like Resistance 3 had dedicated servers. The issue between the ps3 and 360 was party chat. When it came to peer to peer vs dedicated servers the PS3 was head and shoulders above MS.

Microsoft is making big, expensive moves to go full dedicated servers - which is awesome. I hope Sony has similar plans. But it's not like Sony hasn't ever heard of a dedicated server before. In fact I can't think of a first party game that was peer to peer? EA already provides dedicated servers for their games (except sports games are still peer to peer). I don't think Sony is as far behind in having dedicated servers as some of you think...
Click to expand...

Did Sony titles have dedicated servers last gen because they wanted to provide better service, or because their developers didn't have P2P game development experience. The dedicated server model is actually the more traditional model.

Regardless, this is the past:

x3x2wuH.jpg


May we never, ever again see server rooms full of game consoles serving up specific titles. It's inefficient, it's hard to scale, and it's guaranteed to be retired and relatively quickly. Virtual servers are the way to go, period, and Sony needs to do the same thing.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Silly.Mikey said:
I dont see why not.

It gives the incentive to Bungie and others to support Xbox One games even more. The servers are already in place for everyone to use. This will definitely appeal to the dev studios.
Click to expand...

well, based on their halo co-op code, its a legitimate worry.
 
F

famousmortimer

Banned
Jake Tower said:
Which they shut off regularly, leaving ancient two year old games without multiplayer, or ability to authenticate DLC.
Click to expand...

I didn't say EA was a good company. I just said they have dedicated servers.


EA typically shuts down sports games because they want people to buy the new versions. I wonder if that will still happen this gen.



And I don't know why you guys are harping on warhawk... Socom 4 was dedicated, all of the killzones have dedicated servers, uncharted... im not certain about but i've never seen a 'migrating host' message so that makes me think it was dedicated. MAG obviously was dedicated. All three resistance games had dedicated servers. Starhawk has dedicated servers.


The peer to peer games were like LBP and small stuff like that. Anything with a decent player count was on dedicated servers on the PS3. Except for Call of Duty - which was still the most popular online game - which makes you wonder how much the general public even gives a crap about servers.
 
J

Jake Tower

Banned
famousmortimer said:
I didn't say EA was a good company. I just said they have dedicated servers.


EA typically shuts down sports games because they want people to buy the new versions. I wonder if that will still happen this gen.
Click to expand...
Right, I'm just pointing out what happens when a game relies on company owned servers on a closed platform.

It isn't the same as on PC, which I think many people are equating it with.
 
J

jaypah

Member
Out of curiosity, when do you guys/gals think we'll be able to just have a regular discussion about 180 related news and actually stick to the topic? I mean realistically? Launch? 2 years out? Ever?
 
F

famousmortimer

Banned
Jake Tower said:
Right, I'm just pointing out what happens when a game relies on company owned servers on a closed platform.

It isn't the same as on PC, which I think many people are equating it with.
Click to expand...

I assume that Microsoft will still allow developers to use their own servers though and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see EA and Ubi, specifically, who are so in love with Origin/uPlay, do just that.


And when EA shuts down servers this gen we will need to grab our pitchforks and descend upon them. Because if the use of Microsoft's servers are truly free and EA decides to skip that so they can remain in control of their games... well, that will be a whole new level of gross, even for EA.
 
F

famousmortimer

Banned
jaypah said:
Out of curiosity, when do you guys/gals think we'll be able to just have a regular discussion about 180 related news and actually stick to the topic? I mean realistically? Launch? 2 years out? Ever?
Click to expand...


It's been over a year and you still can't bring up anything about the Vita without hearing it's doomed, even if the thread has zero to do with sales. The Wii U is in a similar position that it doesn't seem to be getting out of any time soon. Microsoft has been in this position for, what, a month? You have a long way to go....
 
S

Silly.Mikey

Banned
famousmortimer said:
It's been over a year and you still can't bring up anything about the Vita without hearing it's doomed, even if the thread has zero to do with sales. The Wii U is in a similar position that it doesn't seem to be getting out of any time soon. Microsoft has been in this position for, what, a month? You have a long way to go....
Click to expand...

Yes but both of those have sales figure to back that up no? One is basically a lot of gamers (who for the most part don't like MS and never did) wanting it to fail. There is no reason at this point to be negative on everything One, especially considering they changed their stance and its not even close to being released.
 
J

jaypah

Member
famousmortimer said:
It's been over a year and you still can't bring up anything about the Vita without hearing it's doomed, even if the thread has zero to do with sales. The Wii U is in a similar position that it doesn't seem to be getting out of any time soon. Microsoft has been in this position for, what, a month? You have a long way to go....
Click to expand...

I've seen the WiiU hate for about 2 years strong. The Vita hate is also completely unreasonable. Having said that we have at least gotten to a point with those products where an info thread is actually readable with a discussion going on. Yes, there will always be hatred for everything, it's the internet. But 180 threads are literally DOA and I just assume it'll die down at some point so I was just wondering when it might happen. It doesn't really affect me too much when it happens for any platform as the OP usually has most of the info that I need, I was just asking a legitimate question out of curiosity.
 
K

Krilekk

Banned
But GAF told me that it's only 300k virtual servers and that the cloud is just DRM. #truthfact So where does that money go to?
 
dorkimoe

dorkimoe

Member
I think this cloud is going to be better than some people are making it out to be. Going to be able to take stress off the system
 
S

seanoff

Member
PanicFreak said:
Two things you are not thinking of: 1) the article says that the servers will "primarily" be used for Xbox Live which means you would have to apply some sort of carve out and 2) this can't be the only data center used for Xbox Live. Those two things would probably increase the overall cost per server.
Click to expand...

the direct quote from MS in the original article (click the link) is.

Microsoft’s Christian Belady said in a statement: “The expansion supports the growing demand for Microsoft’s cloud services.” The project represents “our latest in efficient data center thinking.”

not a single thing about XBL. in fact XBL is mentioned in the article as a point from the Civic leaders who probably understood only 2 things in the whole presentation, that being XBL and Office365.

This is an Azure project. will some resources be tasked to XBL, probably. the whole thing, LOL no.
 
F

famousmortimer

Banned
Silly.Mikey said:
Yes but both of those have sales figure to back that up no? One is basically a lot of gamers (who for the most part don't like MS and never did) wanting it to fail. There is no reason at this point to be negative on everything One, especially considering they changed their stance and its not even close to being released.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. And if we're talking sales I understand shitting all over the vita and wii u. But my bigger point is that GAF, for how great it can be, also gets into ruts where nothing is up for conversation. The wii U and vita communities basically had to make their own threads and are reticent to even post news in new threads because they will get shit all over. Which is exactly where the xbox one finds itself right now.


I'm not saying it's right or good, I'm just saying it's not new. But I think it's the nature of a board this large - it's impossible for the mods to control when things like this happen. I could make a post right now about Muramasa Rebirth coming out for the vita next week and people could descend on the thread with "Who cares, vita is dead" "Lol dead system gets one game, big deal" and no one would get banned (not that im advocating that people get banned anyway). But it is a bummer when you just want to talk about a system or a game you like and it just gets buried in negativity.



I personally try not to do that. I guess I did derail this thread a bit by saying that Sony wasn't as far behind in dedicated servers as some of you guys think... but that's not me pissing on microsoft. That's me giving my opinion on Sony. I think (and posted as much) that Microsoft investing in this server space is an undeniably good thing. We can argue whether we trust that all 700 million of that is for XBL... but it's hard to argue against the idea that they are trying to make XBL better.
 
S

Silly.Mikey

Banned
seanoff said:
the direct quote from MS in the original article (click the link) is.

Microsoft’s Christian Belady said in a statement: “The expansion supports the growing demand for Microsoft’s cloud services.” The project represents “our latest in efficient data center thinking.”

not a single thing about XBL. in fact XBL is mentioned in the article as a point from the Civic leaders who probably understood only 2 things in the whole presentation, that being XBL and Office365.

This is an Azure project. will some resources be tasked to XBL, probably. the whole thing, LOL no.
Click to expand...
RESPAWN already stated that they are using cloud for their dedicated servers in TitanFall. Thats Live related.
 
S

seanoff

Member
Silly.Mikey said:
Remedy already stated that they are using cloud for their dedicated servers in TitanFall. Thats Live related.
Click to expand...

i'm not arguing that. they will, good.

but there are more than a few that think this datacentre is ALL about live. it is not, and never will be. it's about their whole suite of Azure products.

Office 365, App hosting, etc are bigger fish to fry than XBL.
 
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