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[jWILL253]

As I sit here playing Final Fantasy XII, I was thinking about my "Best" & "Worst JRPG Characters" threads. It seems there is a clear divide on what makes a good story and character.

So, for this thread, I ask you: What makes a good JRPG, story-wise? Do you prefer a dialogue-heavy "theme" story with lots of depth and folklore, and contains a very specific plot? Do you prefer a more character-driven story where the characters drive the plot forward, rather than the plot moving itself forward?

For a "theme" story, think XII, or SaGa Frontier 2: a story where unique characters exist within it, but it's less about the characters, and more about the world around them and everything that happens in that world. These are the JRPG's that focus on more global themes; stuff like politics, power struggles between kingdoms/nations, espionage, secret societies, "new world orders", royal hierarchy vs. democratic republic, etc. The characters in these types of stories all have specific roles to play in that story, and usually never venture outside of said roles. The worlds in these stories are elaborate, with a given history in every location. Every location has it's own folklore, culture, and verbiage. Usually, the plot is trying to drive the gamer towards a specific conclusion, a certain point, a certain lesson, if you will. These games are remembered less for the character in them, and more for the plots, and the themes within them.

With more character-driven plots, the characters essentially are the story. Think games like Kingdom Hearts, Eternal Sonata, Final Fantasy IX, X & XIII, etc; the characters are the main focus, and nothing happens in the story until the character makes it happen. As a result, you tend to never really know where the story is going until near the end. The characters are meant to show emotional, physical, mental, and/or psychological growth. As the characters grow, their roles in the plot change, depending on whatever actions the characters take. The characters' goals tend to focus around love, family, relationships, strength, etc. There is usually very little depth in the worlds where the plots take place (unless you make a half-ass effort at it, in XIII's case). Usually, the plot itself uses very familiar tropes, and isn't trying to lead the gamer to a conclusion. These games tend to have very memorable characters while having typical stories.

So, yeah. I hope that was coherent. Discuss away...

 

[GamerJM]

In general, the same things as most stories. When it comes to JRPGs character-driven plots tend to work the best though since the actual intricate plots are usually nothing special. Then again, the same could be said of the characters, but usually I find that quirks and personality stand out more when it comes to characters.

But, bottom line, I don't think there's a finite or specific way to make a story better, JRPG or no JRPG.

 

[King Boo]

if i remember correctly, the last remnant was about the hero trying to save his sister, but realizes there is a great threat. i'm fine with this kind of story.

the story can always be simple or complex and i don't mind at all. to me the characters are important. and many rpgs have many annoying characters.

 

[Aeana]

Just want to note that anybody thinking of joining the discussion with any variant of "nothing lol jRPGs suck" should reconsider.

 

[CielTynave]

I like it when a story has a decent focus on the world, but I prefer the characters being the main focus. I can't really care about the world if I don't care about the characters in it.

And personally, I really can't stand any story in which politics are a major focus. I stop giving a shit whats going on pretty quickly when that's the case.

 

[Soriku]

Xenosaga

 

[Black Door]

I appreciate it when the characters talk about their world as if they know it naturally, rather than being walking tour guides, telling each other stuff they should already know (one of the reasons why I hated the writing in Trails of the Sky)

 

[K.Sabot]

Focus on smaller conflicts, don't force tonal shifts, have a world with some atmosphere.

 

[Aeana]

Xenosaga

That's not really an answer to the question being posed here, though.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Any Story in which every random encounter actually make sense storywise.

As in, Chrono Trigger. I don't think there's another jRPG pulling this off.

 

[Aeana]

Any Story in which every random encounter actually make sense storywise.

As in, Chrono Trigger. I don't think there's another jRPG pulling this off.

Not sure I follow. The enemies being placed on the map doesn't really have anything to do with the story.

 

[The Technomancer]

I'll say this much: one thing that turns me off of basically any game story and seems to be unfortunately common among JRPG's that I've played is when I don't feel like the main characters are at all proactively involved in the events of the plot. A game story that just involves people constantly reacting to things happening to them is, the vast majority of the time, a weak story to me.

 

[HeelPower]

. There is usually very little depth in the worlds where the plots take place

That doesn't apply to FFX. It was as much a world/setting driven plot as it is character driven. Sin is pretty much a natural phenomenon .You constantly see Sin wreak havoc regardless of what your party is trying to achieve. There is always a focus on the population of spira and their sufferance. There is a focus on the rift between guado and humans.Yevon's influence as a religious faction is always an important part of the plot.Then there is the rift between the al-bhedand the rest of the world( who have their own language in the game which you can learn) Even blitzball was important to the spira as an escape from Sin.Setting is extremely key to FFX.

Everything in FFX is part of the a bigger , amazingly constructed and illustrated world.Its not Like FFXIII where everything is seemingly shut out of existence in favor of character driven scenes.Not at all.

 

[Flamfas]

A character driven story (with lovable characters) is what makes a JRPG story great

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Coolness.

 

[Korigama]

I prefer a balance between world and the characters inhabiting it. Without a proper focus on examining the characters, having them actually matter in the grand scheme of things, it's hard to stay invested, and without a distinctive world for them to inhabit, it's likely to lack in atmosphere.

 

[jtb]

the same things that make any story good. get the basics right, and I'll happily accept all the other crazy shit you throw at me.

 

[Seda]

I've never been big on stories - usually my enjoyment of any particular title is unrelated to them - but the one thing about stories that can make it or break it for me is the villain and their motivations. More often than not, when I'm disappointed in a plot, it usually stems from a boring villain, leading to a boring conflict that the characters have to resolve. In other words, the plots that do grab my attention are usually the ones with a more interesting conflict than stopping a power hungry baddie.

 

[Bennettt2]

I like the ambitious JRPGs that consider things like the nature of God, historical contexts, time, space and anything else that feels epic. I also like the small moments of bonding, intimacy, and regret, etc.

 

[TangerineCloud]

I think writing in JRPGs is generally at its best when the focus is on the characters. I say this because most JRPGs still seem to be designed *around* the gameplay, and a lot of those grand overarching narratives end up being unfocused and awkwardly-paced because the progression of the story is being locked behind obligatory dungeons and boss battles.

 

[PK Gaming]

EDIT:

Good writing, above all else.

Oh not falling into any of the "bad" writing cliches.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

As I've said in many threads like these, there isn't really a right answer here. Whether it be over the top, subdued, character-driven, plot-driven with focus on world building, emphasis placed on themes, straight-forward, complex, etc, it will all depend on who you ask.

For me, the obvious answer is for something, whether it be a plot point or a character, to be compelling.

Here's an interesting example that most people probably wouldn't think of; Disgaea 3. I loved the story, but not because of the relatively standard dialogue or the standard plot progression. No, it was the villain's motivation and themes that it implied. Without spoiling anything, it really made me question the common portrayal of a "hero", and kind of turned an absolutely vital part of fiction on its head.

So really, it depends on what you're looking for and where you can focus your attention, whether it be forgiving isolated incidents of shoddy storytelling to look at the bigger picture, or staying focused on a specific element that may give new meaning to what happens both inside that story and out (or more stuff that I'm too lazy to list right now).

 

[Cerity]

A balance of both. Character based stories tend to get lost in the details of the relationships between them and when it comes to far reaching plots, jrpg writers try to do way too much.

 

[Aytrial]

I love the JRPGs that revolve around the development and interactions of the main cast. Yes, yes, we've all heard it beaten to the ground before, but Persona 4 is the most recent game I've played that is a shining example of this done well. I came to genuinely care about the cast in P4 unlike other JRPGs I've played (I'm looking at you FFXIII).

Personally, I find it hard for me to get passionate about the "theme" story-style RPGs you've mentioned. A lot of them will fall into a web of cliches that make it very easy to predict where things are going. I will point out that I am quite the glutton for cliches and love them to death, but if an entire game's plot relies on them, things can get bland very fast.

Ultimately, it's a solid combination of the two that will result in an enjoyable experience, which is all I want out of a JRPG.

 

[Conflict NZ]

Persona 4 is the closest the to JRPG story perfection I have seen. There is a tight narrative and additional content and the player can control when or if they see this content. The plot was interesting and the characters were extremely well written and not just 2D fodder like most JRPGs have.

 

[luxarific]

Older characters (in their 30s-40s, etc.). Maybe it's just because I'm older, but I just find them to be so much more interesting than the typical teen protagonist. Let me play as or with someone who's lived a little, or who has a little wear or tear on them. Would have loved it if Square had kept Basch the lead in FFXII, for example (that alone would have taken a great game and made it a classic).

 

[aliencowz7]

My own personal taste is actually pretty weird. The quality of the story and writing really doesn't matter to me. What I look for is for the story to be very busy, I actually look for convoluted story lines with tons of stuff going on. Lots of separate mini story lines as well as many facets of the main story line.

As long as I can become fully engrossed in the world and whats going on, it really doesn't bother me how cliche it may be or how poorly written it is or how stupid a twist becomes.

I have a couple different I dunno what you would call them, medical issues I suppose, that lead me to having a very busy mind and I need to have alot going on and alot of different things to think about to get very involved in it. It is really why I have always been drawn to the JRPG genre even though I don't have any real fondness or dislike for the various parts that make up the usual JRPG stereotypes.

I don't really have any single game examples off the top of my head but its more of a rule of thumb as to why I so thoroughly enjoy the vast majority of JRPG story lines compared to other kinds of genres.

 

[Soriku]

That's not really an answer to the question being posed here, though.

I will elaborate.

Of all the JRPGs I've played, no other story comes close to the complexity of Xenosaga (haven't played Xenogears yet though). I'm not sure if I'd say it's the most enjoyable JRPG story I've experienced but as far as "good JRPG stories" go, I'd put it at the top.

Not only is the world and how it functions very well developed (though a lot is detailed just in the database - but it's impossible to cover all of that stuff without the story being a drag), many characters have rather complex and unique motivations. Again, the only downside is that some stuff isn't explained directly in the cutscenes but once you gather all the information on these characters it paints them in a better light. Which is why I recommend playing the series, or at least the third game, twice. There's a lot of thought put into the story and characters that I don't think many other games come close to.

A lot of people think it's convoluted because of how complex it is but everything comes together and it all makes sense.

Just take a glance at the Perfect Guide (spoilers): http://translations.xenotensei.com/Xeno3/PerfectGuide.html

 

[flonty]

I enjoy the Dragon Quest storys the most due to their simplicity. The storys are charming and remind of the books that I read when I was a child.
The party has to defeat the evil that threatens the world and during the journey more subplots open up without losing focus of the main story

 

[Zukuu]

-Non-tropes or at least handling them in a new approach (NieR and NOT tales of graces)
-Good, deep characters (NieR)
-Believable actions (oh the bad guy arrives JUST in time to steal the gem we've been fighting for through this whole dungeon... hello Tales of Graces!)
-Motivation must be clear (hello, Tales of Graces :X)
-Don't come with "friendship and love". I can't stand it (high Tales of Graces again)


Bottom line: Don't be Tales of Graces and be more like NieR

 

[Anustart]

I don't need grand story telling or impeccable writing. I'm not a member of the top hat and monocle club. Give me just about any story from earlier Final Fantasy's or Dragon Quests and I'm good.

For the story to work for me I only need a bad guy, maybe a plot twist or two where said bad guy isn't really the BIG bad guy and I'm rarin' to save the world.

Not to say that the more fleshed out stories are bad, just that I don't require them for me to consider the narrative worthy.

 

[Jotamide]

Good pace first and foremost. Having a goal at all times.

Spoiler

In this, I feel Soul Hackers is lacking. Maybe that's why I can't bring myself to finish it. ;_;

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I am down for relative non sense for plot as long as the majority of characters are nailed in their tone and personality. So basically, the script is everything followed by pace. A lot of time the jump between melodramatic plot forwarding stuff clashes with the rest, especially as I wonder why it is I'm doing what I am doing now after the shit went down in that cutscene.

 

[Feep]

Characters are important, of course, but I need some intrigue, some mythos, some worldbuilding. There are such a myriad of great characters in film and television that I get to see come to life, but so rarely do they venture outside of our realm of the natural world.

Mystery, plot twists, agency, grandeur. And yes, I do love me some Xenosaga.

 

[Servbot24]

Focus on smaller conflicts, don't force tonal shifts, have a world with some atmosphere.

Yeah. Local plots are almost always far more interesting than global plots. Easier to establish personality, perhaps.

 

[Korigama]

Of all the JRPGs I've played, no other story comes close to the complexity of Xenosaga (haven't played Xenogears yet though).

Xenosaga is significantly more complex than Xenogears. However, I personally felt this was part of what worked against it (compared to Xenogears, I felt that Xenosaga lacked focus overall). It was too ambitious for its own good, which says a lot given that Xenogears was also ambitious. In fact...

A balance of both. Character based stories tend to get lost in the details of the relationships between them and when it comes to far reaching plots, jrpg writers try to do way too much.

Xenosaga was the first thing that came to mind when I read this. Something like Xenogears didn't require Perfect Works to understand it, but the datalog (something I'm wary of in any JRPG that includes one) in Episodes I and III of Xenosaga are basically required reading.

 

[daniels]

A group of teens in revealing outfits (and one 23 year old war veteran) scream around about the power of friendship while a beautiful androgynous silver haired shemale villain smirks seductively and talks about how death is wonderful, everything should disappear in darkness and so on because in the past he one time spilled a coffee or something. Optional drown the whole story in pretentious religious symbolism that makes even Neon Genesis Evangelion roll its eyes.
Yeah I can't get enough of those.

 

[Cwarrior]

Regardless what the story is about most jrpg storys are bad it's just a matter of how tolerable they are and if you like the character enough enjoy there presents and look past the overall story .

In all my years of jrpg-ing mario superstar saga and paper mario 2 are the only decent storys I've come across and that's thanks to good charming writing(or maybe that's cause it's so funny and loveable it's clouding judgement)

 

[Broder Salsa]

Something where they have to save the world.

 

[Evilisk]

Good pace first and foremost.

Absolutely this. It doesn't matter how interesting your story is (or think it is), if the pacing is crap then it's going to be really hard to care about it.

 

[Evolved1]

Brevity. Though, it's as rare as a unicorn.

 

[SkyOdin]

A good story will so both: it will have great characters that tie directly into strong central themes. A story that neglects one side will suffer for it.

For example, Final Fantasy VI is a game built around themes of loss and how people cope with dramatic changes in their lives. It is at once both a theme that is very personal and can be seen in the individual main characters and very general in how the world as a whole is faced with destruction and change. The pain and difficulty that the main characters face are the same struggles that everyone else in the world are also dealing with. As such, the main characters stand out as examples of the hardships the entire world is going through. The main characters remain deeply connected to the world around them, and the story of the world unfolds alongside the story of the main characters.

The greatest problem in RPG story-telling is creating a disconnect between the characters' individual stories, the themes of the rest of the world, and the player's actions. A really great story keeps those disparate elements unified as part of a greater thematic purpose.

 

[Smushroomed]

I just started persona 4 and its awesome. I don't like jrpgs for the most part, but I wonder why aren't there more games like persona 4

 

[Papercuts]

I'm not entirely hard to please here, I'm mostly just in it for world trekking, seeing unique locales and interesting towns, and a solid cast of characters. It's only when there's constant tropes, a shitty annoying ass kid, stuff like that where it drags me down.

Tales of Graces plotline made me want to light myself on fire.

 

[raven777]

something very complicated, like xenogears or xenosaga.

If not, it needs to have simple story with good characters and good writing, dialogue with good setting.

I think persona 4 was another great one.

 

[encephalon]

I don't think that having a "theme" is enough to carry a JRPG story. FFXII has some "political"elements, but there is little "intrigue" and honestly, compared to Final Fantasy Tactics before it, it's not really a strong point of the game. It's just a flavor. It's hard to say what would be the strong point of FFXII. It has a lot of world development that serves the purpose of foreshadowing ... ? Oh, right. Nothing. Fetch quests, aimless wandering, and half baked ideas -

Spoiler

"history back in the hands of man!" are not enough to bring the story around.

At the same time, FFXII didn't have to be that way. Maybe it's easier to say what not to do, than to suggest what one should do.

1. Give the story characters time to talk with each other and discuss their journey. This is constantly done in FFVII-FFIX. Yes, this does mean stopping "gameplay" to have periods of the game devoted towards heavier use of "cutscenes," but if it didn't bother us when it was text boxes I don't see why it should bother us now. Voiced textboxes would be fine as well.

Spoiler

2. If you're going to devote a bunch of time to building up the world, then deliver on it. There is so much time devoted towards Nethicite in the beginning of the game (the first half, I suppose). The most the story can do with this is beg the question - "will Ashe or won't Ashe use its destructive power?"

3. If you're going to devote a long stretch of gameplay to a long journey to somewhere, make sure that somewhere matters. What was the point of Archades? Just to send us off to the Giant Crystal to meet the Occuria? And why did the Occuria matter? If you're going to introduce some sort of external forces manipulating the events of the storyline, then at least have it change the story flow in some way. Not, "good Job Ashe, your quest to defeat Vayne and take back your kingdom coincidentally coincides with our intersets." Or - use it to make things more interesting SOMEHOW.

4. Develop your villains - Why is the party gritting their teeth at Cid? Because he invented (I think?) Nethicite? And because he invented a dangerous weapon we have to fight him, because? Why should I care about Vayne's "history back in the hands of man" ambition? Just because you've written a gray area villain, doesn't give you an excuse for them to be pitifully dull.

Maybe that was a rant. But I think FFXII is a pretty good example of what not to do.

 

[Mupod]

I think an adequately fleshed-out world is important, and the ability to explore it properly ties into that.

Likewise, the characters themselves are of great importance.

I think the actual plot isn't all that important, having it become needlessly complicated can turn me off in some ways. Like Chrono Cross, or the parts in Xenogears/saga where they ran out of money and the pacing goes crazy.

On the other hand, I still enjoyed Lost Odyssey even though the actual storyline was kinda dumb. The short stories were far far more interesting and did a great job building the world and Kaim's backstory. As another example, Persona 3 and 4 are much more about the characters than the plot and they revel in this with the whole S.Link system.

So with this information it's probably no surprise that something like Skies of Arcadia is among my favorites. Great world, likeable characters in both the protagonists and antagonists, simple yet engaging storyline that doesn't get needlessly complicated or bogged down at any point.

That's not to say I've got rigid rules here, I find the storyline and worlds in Tales games pretty damn boring and to this day I've never finished one (I keep buying them though...). Whereas I love Infinite Space's crazy twisting space opera of a plot. Xenosaga as well, despite the aforementioned issues in the third game.

 

[Espada]

Character driven style is definitely JRPG's strong suit. My preference would be for the interaction, and growth of the characters take place in a rich, and well crafted world. One where they affect change and are acted upon without their involvement or initiation. Something like 60/40 would be a nice split.

You know what would be interesting? A game where the world itself was the main character, and this is slowly revealed to you as you play.

I loved FFXII, but I remember people tearing the game to shreds because the characters weren't as strong or central as previous games, and the actual important events took place elsewhere. I could see why someone would come to that conclusion since the party barely has any presence on the wider stage, and they spend most of the gaming trudging through wilderness. So I fully understand why the theme approach turns people off.

 

[encephalon]

something very complicated, like xenogears or xenosaga.

Let's not fall into the trap of being complicated for the sake of being complicated. Although I don't think that's necessarily what is going on in Xenogears or Xenosaga. One of the reasons why Xenogears and Xenosaga are "complicated" is because of a seemingly constant itch to fill in details, combined with stories that span hundreds of years and the entirety of the universe. Xenosaga isn't satisfied with "it's magic," "they're souls" or "it's another dimension." The writers were so passionate that they were intent on filling the details of how these things fit together, the histories of the world, etc. The richness is deserved.

 

[kiunchbb]

Interest world background and character development. If you put someone interesting in a believable world, everything they do will be good story.