Which I'm all for.
Of course discovery is an issue. Especially since no-one has cracked that, and lots are trying (apple, google, valve, etc).
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MS confirms indie program for XB1, was a big GamesCom surprise, angry at GI for leak
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
Which I'm all for.
Of course discovery is an issue. Especially since no-one has cracked that, and lots are trying (apple, google, valve, etc).
LukasTaves
Member
Those were policies for being picked by MGS to publish your game on XBLA. And since you couldn't self publish on xbla you'd either acept that or try getting another publisher.
Self publishing removes that hurdle altogether... You just publish your game to the store, and if the game plays by the rules it gets released, you don't need to be approved or picked like a publisher would.
Which is why probably self publishing will be done through the windows "partition". The apis there would be winRT and standard directX... Very performant, but not close to the metal.
If you want full access to the hardware cant you just get a real dev kit?
Apparently this whole self publishing thing isn't available at launch as well. Shows how forward thinking MS has really been. Again I'm taking a wait and see approach. If this all works out then great on them, but this all seems very reactionary to what the competition has been doing and how outspoken other indies have been.
They had self publishing on the XBox 360, too. And yes, XBLIG was very forward thinking. This appears to be a continuation of that, and far more open than XBLIG ever was.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/24/4553946/microsoft-details-xbox-one-indie-self-publishing
Sounds curated to me.
To what extent, we'll have to wait and see.
There is curation in Sony's system as well.
Apple does curating, too, of course.
Yeah. Its not like the iOS Store is totally uncurated, and neither are (I imagine) the existing Windows/Windows Phone stores or Google Play.
The fine print for both this and apps will be very interesting to see and what convinces me to buy one.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
You might want to follow the thread of the conversation. I never claimed there wasn't.
Your response to my claim that Microsoft wasn't just going to let every game on the Xbone made by any average bozo was:
Now you're saying "Oh, of course Apple does curating!" (which I'm fully aware of). So which is it?
phosphor112
Banned
Oh, no doubt. It's great.
I just wonder how many hurdles someone would have to jump through just to make use of "the whole thing."
Ah good. I've been saying that they'd announced it before launch. It seemed like the lowest-hanging fruit to pick off the negativity tree. Relatively simple to do, another talking point gone, all good.
Its obviously reactionary, not coming at launch, but still it sounds like a rather good implementation (no devkit required) will be the end result. Now all they have to confirm is there are no artificial barriers ala XBLIG, and that cboat made up the 3GB limitation.
Its obviously reactionary, not coming at launch, but still it sounds like a rather good implementation (no devkit required) will be the end result. Now all they have to confirm is there are no artificial barriers ala XBLIG, and that cboat made up the 3GB limitation.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
A leaking ship will always sink =p
If I were to guess, minimal curating, similar to other app stores.
I guess it depends on what your "average bozo" is. If it's "hello world", then no, it probably isn't going to make it onto the store.
Apple and MS (WP8/W8) curate on a "it's not objectionable, it isn't porn, it doesn't freeze up every 5 seconds" level. They are not picky. We will all be playing Carlos Danger Dating Sim within a year's time.
Apple/MS take the "i know what porn is when I see it" approach when defining if an app is app-enough to be published.
Of course it's all conjecture until more info is released.
LukasTaves
Member
He also says there it won't be windows store apps:
If they are not just allowing self publishing through the windows OS than it might actually be a change of policy...
I do hope people can still develop and self publish store apps on xbone too. And that those apps can have the same capabilities as the ones Ms have already shown. (Like a hypothetical facebook app could be snapped to the side of the game while playing to upload a gameplay video directly to my timeline)
Why does Microsoft need a PR beat-down before they do anything correctly?
Always Online-> bad PR-> 24-hour check in-> More bad PR-> MS removes restrictions.
Obstructive Indie policies-> bad PR-> No self-publishing while both Sony and Nintendo offer it-> even more bad PR-> MS adds self-publishing.
Always on Kinect-> bad PR-> bad PR-> Kinect can be turned off but is always listening-> more bad PR-> Xbox One cannot function without Kinect-> Even more pad PR-> ?????
$499-> bad PR-> weaker console-> more bad PR-> ????
Seriously, just think before you act Microsoft.
Always Online-> bad PR-> 24-hour check in-> More bad PR-> MS removes restrictions.
Obstructive Indie policies-> bad PR-> No self-publishing while both Sony and Nintendo offer it-> even more bad PR-> MS adds self-publishing.
Always on Kinect-> bad PR-> bad PR-> Kinect can be turned off but is always listening-> more bad PR-> Xbox One cannot function without Kinect-> Even more pad PR-> ?????
$499-> bad PR-> weaker console-> more bad PR-> ????
Seriously, just think before you act Microsoft.
Yeah I'm really hoping at the very least that Microsoft doesn't develop all the video apps (Hulu etc) in house again.
This is standard practice for MS. Never buy the first version of any software by MS, seems like they start to hone in around iteration 4. But that's where they're good- no matter how shitty their first version is, they keep improving. It's almost as if they are aware of this process.
Fushichou187
Member
In total agreement, though I am really interested in how they could make it available to everyone yet still put up enough barriers to mitigate Joe Casual from outright clusterfucking their console and teaming up with some slimy lawyer for a lawsuit.
WoolyNinja
Member
This is why I'm always for having at least 2, preferably 3 console manufacturers per generation. Sony came out guns blazing, MS came out of the gate limping and consumers let MS know they weren't happy by pre-ordering tons more PS4s than XboxOne's. (this has to be the case with how fast Microsoft is now trying to fix the issues)
If there was no PS4 coming out Microsoft would've had no reason to change and consumers would lose. This is why no matter which console you choose you should really be routing for all the consoles to be as successful as possible.
If there was no PS4 coming out Microsoft would've had no reason to change and consumers would lose. This is why no matter which console you choose you should really be routing for all the consoles to be as successful as possible.
I don't see why that's a concern. Every windows PC is a dev machine, and that's not an issue.
kerotan_eater
Banned
Totally reactive, but nonetheless the right move, and maybe even ended up 1uping Sony and Nintendo here.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
Kinda sucks for us core gamers since we're generally early adopters.
Yeah, MS forced Sony into getting its act together last gen and now MS are forced to do the same. As long as there is competition gamers will be in good hands.
I agree whole heartedly. MS changing things before launch is also going to keep Sony on their toes. They'll need to really start bringing it with game announcements soon now that they're not coasting by on some of their early wins.
So true. I feel Sony held far too much back at E3 because MS allowed them with their blunder. Can't wait to see how both Sony and MS bring it at Gamescom.
Warm Machine
Member
It is impossible that it is reactionary. Tools and infrastructure don't suddenly get made on a whim.
soul creator
Member
so if "no self-publishing until a year after launch" is true, I'd wager that the reason they're doing that is because they don't want to have to worry about sending pre-launch, relatively unoptimized dev kits to people, and spend time having to support and maintain that for a bunch of smaller companies and developers. For launch, they seem to be primarily focused on the AAA heavy hitters, and/or established publishers, which are a bit of a known quantity.
Instead, they'll wait for the "anyone can use their PC and retail Xbox to publish full games" stuff and then anyone can do whatever, since the infrastructure would be in place at that point.
Sony took the opposite approach of going ahead and sending out early devkits to indie devs and building that relationship up front.
Sony's approach gets the benefit of lots of indie support early on, and the messaging that comes along with that, at the cost of losing the random coder in their bedroom who wants to make a PS4 game. Random bedroom coder could theoretically still get a PS4 devkit, but they'd probably have to have something a bit more polished to show for themselves first. They couldn't just email Sony and say "hey, I want to put my massage app up, send me a devkit, kthx"
Microsoft's approach gets the benefit of pretty much anyone with a PC and an Xbox One being able to release whatever game they want, dumb or not, without having to get any approval at all (beyond the basic "it doesn't crash when you first boot the game" testing). The drawback is that this system won't be fully ready until a year after launch, so they'll have to take the PR beating in the meantime, and also potentially lose indie mindshare.
As I mentioned before, this is a possible reason for the 5GB/3GB RAM split. If they reserved too much for games, then there wouldn't be enough leftover for the "devkit environment", which usually takes a lot of extra RAM. Since they've mentioned today that they "designed the system from the beginning to eventually support this", that seems like the most plausible reason for why so much "non-gaming" RAM is reserved.
Instead, they'll wait for the "anyone can use their PC and retail Xbox to publish full games" stuff and then anyone can do whatever, since the infrastructure would be in place at that point.
Sony took the opposite approach of going ahead and sending out early devkits to indie devs and building that relationship up front.
Sony's approach gets the benefit of lots of indie support early on, and the messaging that comes along with that, at the cost of losing the random coder in their bedroom who wants to make a PS4 game. Random bedroom coder could theoretically still get a PS4 devkit, but they'd probably have to have something a bit more polished to show for themselves first. They couldn't just email Sony and say "hey, I want to put my massage app up, send me a devkit, kthx"
Microsoft's approach gets the benefit of pretty much anyone with a PC and an Xbox One being able to release whatever game they want, dumb or not, without having to get any approval at all (beyond the basic "it doesn't crash when you first boot the game" testing). The drawback is that this system won't be fully ready until a year after launch, so they'll have to take the PR beating in the meantime, and also potentially lose indie mindshare.
As I mentioned before, this is a possible reason for the 5GB/3GB RAM split. If they reserved too much for games, then there wouldn't be enough leftover for the "devkit environment", which usually takes a lot of extra RAM. Since they've mentioned today that they "designed the system from the beginning to eventually support this", that seems like the most plausible reason for why so much "non-gaming" RAM is reserved.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
I will say I'm surprised at how fast MS is changing all of these policies, it's almost absurd on some level. It took Sony much longer to fix some of PS3's issues, granted none of those issues were at the level of the DRM fiasco, but still.
3rdamention
Member
It really makes me wonder why they didn't reveal this indie publishing "plan" at BUILD or even E3. I really don't understand why they planned to reveal it at GAMESCON just a few months from release. All they are sharing now is what they have planned for Indie publishing to come next year. Wouldn't this have been info to share at their reveal, BUILD or E3?
They aren't showing it yet, they aren't demoing any of it, their "plan" now is just some bullet points on paper basically. If they have really been planning this for a long time, why wait? Especially with Sony supposedly so "indie friendly" and talking up indie devs since their reveal.
RadarScope1
Member
You know, this is good news for gamers and developers. That's all that really matters, so long as we get more good games when it's all said and done.
But on a more superfluous level - the console war - I'll say this. It absolutely in no way puts MS on the same footing as Sony when it comes to independent development. Business is about relationships and Sony has been building those relationships for a few years now. MS has been actively fucking small developers over -- there have been TONS of articles and sentiment to that effect the last year or two. And the opposite sentiment when it comes to Sony. That sentiment doesn't come from a few tweets, or some smoke and mirrors PR fuzz. It comes from actual experiences and results between business people - devs and platform holders. You just cannot say "Oh it's a new generation ... Oh, every console is a dev kit ... Oh, hey, Mattrick is out" and think they've wiped the slate clean. Nope. That's pure day dreaming.
Do I hope MS turns it around overnight and gets on equal footing, like, now? Yes, I do. But as someone who's excited for a new generation of indie games, this news doesn't really make me think much differently about the XB1. Maybe a little. But I'm still hugely skeptical. Hope I'm wrong.
But on a more superfluous level - the console war - I'll say this. It absolutely in no way puts MS on the same footing as Sony when it comes to independent development. Business is about relationships and Sony has been building those relationships for a few years now. MS has been actively fucking small developers over -- there have been TONS of articles and sentiment to that effect the last year or two. And the opposite sentiment when it comes to Sony. That sentiment doesn't come from a few tweets, or some smoke and mirrors PR fuzz. It comes from actual experiences and results between business people - devs and platform holders. You just cannot say "Oh it's a new generation ... Oh, every console is a dev kit ... Oh, hey, Mattrick is out" and think they've wiped the slate clean. Nope. That's pure day dreaming.
Do I hope MS turns it around overnight and gets on equal footing, like, now? Yes, I do. But as someone who's excited for a new generation of indie games, this news doesn't really make me think much differently about the XB1. Maybe a little. But I'm still hugely skeptical. Hope I'm wrong.
Kenshin001
Member
That's why they won't be there at launch.
RadarScope1
Member
Which is why it won't be available at launch. They are reacting now, and it's coming soon.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
I hope you're right as far as indie devs not simply forgiving and forgetting, if only to let Microsoft know they'd better not reneg on any of this shit. But I have a feeling Xbox will remain the premier console for indie devs and North American gamers.
As much as we may talk about how much they've fucked up, one look around the Internet shows gamers are quick to forgive and the goodwill pendulum has swung firmly back to their side. It doesn't matter how bad they fucked up, as long as they quickly burn those shitty plans and pretend they never happened.
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
Nintendo Wii shows that people don't care about specs.
GameSeeker
Member
You are incorrect. Microsoft said the tools and infrastructure will not be ready for launch. They promised them within the first year. Also read Mario's post. Microsoft is being reactionary.
Those Wii bowlers aren't shopping for game consoles.
NotXbox one
Banned
Yeah i Know ,, Microsoft Is Awesome 
killer rin
Member
...They aren't using Devkits for indies. Its like how you do it on XBLI, WP and W8. You pay $100, give them your device ID and they unlock the DevTools in addition to allowing you to put the games on the store.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
And that has what exactly to do with the topic we were discussing? I said we still don't have many confirmed specs on Xbone. You said this:
I said there's no way they're adjusting this late in the game. I then said the only hints we have on the console's guts are from a Reddit AMA and some MS PR folks saying numbers don't matter.
What does the Wii have to do with this? Why the deflection and change of subject? I never once said more power = more sales.
The only reason I can think of for this kind of switch is to try to score a "point" for your "team." If that's the case, please don't. We're both better than that.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Props to GI for actual reporting.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
Yeah i Know ,, Microsoft Is Awesome
Judging by your name, I never would've guessed you'd say something like that.
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