faulty_fork
Member
Yeah but the Xbox One games are only allowed to use 5 GB of the ram so there will always be system ram left for debugging purposes even on retail boxes.
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MS confirms indie program for XB1, was a big GamesCom surprise, angry at GI for leak
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
Yeah but the Xbox One games are only allowed to use 5 GB of the ram so there will always be system ram left for debugging purposes even on retail boxes.
FranXico
Member
I'm 100% sure of that.
Respawn is definitely not developing Ryse.
Damn, what an embarrassing mistake.
I stand corrected. Respawn is surely using devkits that will probably need more than 8GB RAM, and come with a bunch of tools that are not available to the general public.
Yes, but even in dev-mode the OS is still present and using up RAM, that's why real devkits have additional memory.
Lol, system ram is not there for debugging, it's there for and being used up by the OS and system features. You guys act like when you're making a game you suddenly don't need an OS or any of the system uses. It doesn't work like that. The 3GB is reserved for features not related to debugging, and one's that will have to be tested to work along with and alongside the game itself.
This has always been the case. Debug kits are not the same as dev kits.
Debug kits are generally the one's offered to publications and gaming outlets to review games and early preview code. Hence the special keys and certificates. The code/disks they run don't work on normal retail units.
faulty_fork
Member
Memory allocation between the different OS:es should be flexible and I doubt that the necessary features use up anywhere near 3 GB. I could see a debug mode where stuff like snap and dvr functionality are disabled. I have no idea how much extra ram is actually needed for debugging purposes though.
Snap and DVR functionality will still need to run in tandem with the game, so they'd need to test that stuff running simultaneously, hence the extra ram in dev kits as buffer for debugging and so on. Dev kits usually always have more ram than the retail kits for that very reason.
In-fact, so do the Xbox One dev kits lol. They currently have 12GB of DDR3 instead of the retail 8GB.
Some of that 3GB of RAM is reserved for apps that can run in parallel with games.
One way it could work is that the OS could load an app in the 3GB OS partition of RAM that acts as a debugger for the game you deploy to the XBox One in the 5GB RAM partition.
I'm almost certain that Microsoft , of all companies, could get something like this to work.
Damn, what an embarrassing mistake.
I stand corrected. Respawn is surely using devkits that will probably need more than 8GB RAM, and come with a bunch of tools that are not available to the general public.
I completely agree, mate.
(Being cheeky is just my way
)Even as an X1 fan, I take everything that comes out of Microsoft's collective mouth with a tiny grain of salt. I pretty much wish they'd just STFU until they had a definitive answer for something. This indie program stuff is the definition of vague.
Garrett 2U
Member
They partition resources for the apps ran on the OS. So they wouldn't need to test it with anything snapped, they would just need to not overuse the resources they have access to on the game partition.
I bet how its going to work is the debug mode is actually a snapped application that runs in tandem with the game you're debugging.
Impossible. They'll still need a memory reserve for the OS(s) and system features. At this point that reserve is 3GB. To reiterate, that is not for debugging purposes, but for the OS features.
Some of that 3GB of RAM is reserved for apps that can run in parallel with games.
One way it could work is that the OS could load an app in the 3GB OS partition of RAM that acts as a debugger for the game you deploy to the XBox One in the 5GB RAM partition.
I'm almost certain that Microsoft , of all companies, could get something like this to work.
It could, but then how do you debug it when the game crashes if you have Bing, Youtube, and DVR all loaded at once?
FranXico
Member
I am pretty sure that a customized version of Windows 8 designed to run on a games console/media player should be able to work without hogging RAM like that. In the end, MS should by now have figured out how to reduce the OS requirement down to levels comparable to those of the PS4 (as we speculate).
It doesn't make a difference to *me* personally, because I already decided to go PS4/PC next gen.
The system software, sure. But if Dashboard OS is a Windows App　device it needs room to hold all the random programs and data a user may want to have. That's what the OS reservation is for.
You won't have all of that loaded at once. You get one app and one game running at a time.
Also, the whole point of the hypervisor and virtual machines is that a program running in one OS will not run step on the toes of a program running in another OS.
If this happens, then there is a fundamental issue with the system that needs to be fixed in the operating system.
Essentially, you don't have to test your situation because the two programs running under two different operating systems on two different machines can't affect one another.
That's all nice in theory, but the hope that the hypervisor will keep them from stomping each other's protected memory and processes doesn't help with problems that can occur due to conflicting access to underlying hardware or overlapping inputs.
And the principle remains even if it's just testing against a suite of intensive individual apps rather than various combos. Though I'd wager almost anything the "one at a time" limit is forced Metro-style tiling and a limit on onscreen apps, not a force-quit for background software the second you load something new. (Can you really imagine the Xbone DVR giving up on recording the second you fired up Bing or Netflix?)
Iced_Eagle
Member
By doing that, you no longer can do multi-taskingsnap.
Who cares whether it was planned from the start? Consoles and policies will change over the course of a generation. Hello? This is a good thing.
Even hacked PS3's can be turned into dev versions, so I'm really not getting why "every xbone is dev" is such a big deal.
bumpkin
Member
Show-off.So when I update my Xbox One retail console I should be greeted with something close to my Xbox 360 dev kit environment?
At any rate, I'll be really curious to hear what they have in-store.
Because it dramatically lowers the barrier to entry for xbone developers. You can't use a hacked ps3 to write a ps3 game, publish it to the ps store, and get paid for your work.
Does Sony allow you to? No that's why. You can't possibly compare illegally hacking and violating/breaking their legal agreements with what Microsoft is supporting.
Amish_Gramish
Member
How's it goin', chubigans.
Yeah, we (thatgamecompany) don't have any plans to ever make any more exclusive games, but we also haven't announced if we're making any games for Android/iOS.
That said, we are focusing on touch controls, as they seem to be the only universal thing nowadays. Phones, Wii U, PS3, PS4 (PSEye), etc. (Xbox One if they allow actual self-publishing, not XBLIG.) There are also some pretty cool touch/gesture interface on PC that have been coming up over the years.
LeeFowler.CU
Banned
How's it goin', chubigans.
Yeah, we (thatgamecompany) don't have any plans to ever make any more exclusive games, but we also haven't announced if we're making any games for Android/iOS.
That said, we are focusing on touch controls, as they seem to be the only universal thing nowadays. Phones, Wii U, PS3, PS4 (PSEye), etc. (Xbox One if they allow actual self-publishing, not XBLIG.) There are also some pretty cool touch/gesture interface on PC that have been coming up over the years.
Hi. Microsoft has already confirmed that any self-published indie games will be sold side-by-side with published games in the same store. No sectioning off of Indie games à la XBLIG.
dragonelite
Member
Could it be that games and those made in the indie program use a different launcher?
Supposed leaked build of homefront 2 by superDEA.
if already posted ignore..
http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-xbox-ones-ability-to-run-winrt-apps-confirmed-via-leaked-code/
Supposed leaked build of homefront 2 by superDEA.
if already posted ignore..
http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-xbox-ones-ability-to-run-winrt-apps-confirmed-via-leaked-code/
I think there are two options for Indies to release games for the X1:
- Use the app store (and thus only have <3 GB available) and your game will run on the X1, W8, WP8, WinRT). The X1 will probably have an app store (with apps, games, etc.) like on Win8...
- Use the indie program with 5 GB available without an easy option to port your game to W8. But your game will be treated like a "real" game.
- Use the app store (and thus only have <3 GB available) and your game will run on the X1, W8, WP8, WinRT). The X1 will probably have an app store (with apps, games, etc.) like on Win8...
- Use the indie program with 5 GB available without an easy option to port your game to W8. But your game will be treated like a "real" game.
Amish_Gramish
Member
Could you link me to an official statement by them confirming this?
I've only seen articles with random developers talking about how they're afraid that the One will continue the XBLIG thing.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Try this. They have a quote from Marc Whitten about it.
http://kotaku.com/microsoft-every-xbox-one-can-be-used-to-make-games-up-898750954
Chill Dude
Neo Member
Hopefully this is MS actually joining the modern era along with everyone else late has to be better than never eh? Not that I believe in anything MS does in this industry at the moment.
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