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[Stet]

Not voting doesn't mean you don't bother. Jesus.

It's about sending a message about what the "democracy" has become. A nonsense ilussion of choice.

That's not abstaining from voting, that's deliberately spoiling your ballot.

 

[ISOM]

Not voting doesn't mean you don't bother. Jesus.

It's about sending a message about what the "democracy" has become. A nonsense ilussion of choice.

Nobody knows that you didn't vote except for you. So how exactly does it send a message?

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Not voting means you're just a lazy slob that likes complaining on the internet. I'm glad people in Florida that waited 8 hours in line to vote didn't share your childish views.

Is there a "none of the above" option on ballots? If I dont want to go out and prop up a corrupt broken shitty system then why should I?

 

[Zhengi]

Not voting doesn't mean you don't bother. Jesus.

It's about sending a message about what the "democracy" has become. A nonsense ilussion of choice.

Actually, not voting means you give more power to my vote since my vote means more. It also means that you make the guy who is rich have more power in his/her vote. So you not voting doesn't change anything and it actually empowers those who want to stay in power.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

I bet you all wish Obama was a Communist now, eh?

Would that it were.

 

[RustyNails]

Is there a "none of the above" option on ballots? If I dont want to go out and prop up a corrupt broken shitty system then why should I?

If you're going to approach our electoral system as corrupt and broken, then nothing short of an Arab Spring style revolution can change the system. But if you approach the electoral system as slightly unwieldy method of implementing collective change you wish to see, then vote for your candidates from president to your local township legislator. This is exactly the mentality we had when we organized together and kicked out super crazy teabagger Joe Walsh from US Congress. It wouldn't have worked if we just sat on our sofas with thumbs up our ass.

 

[diffusionx]

If you're going to approach our electoral system as corrupt and broken, then nothing short of an Arab Spring style revolution can change the system. But if you approach the electoral system as slightly unwieldy method of implementing collective change you wish to see, then vote for your candidates from president to your local township legislator. This is exactly the mentality we had when we organized together and kicked out super crazy teabagger Joe Walsh from US Congress. It wouldn't have worked if we just sat on our sofas with thumbs up our ass.

This. The problem is that people on the left tend to fall in love with someone, vote for him wholeheartedly, and then expect everything to work itself out, becoming disenfranchised when it doesn't. Meanwhile people on the right are running guys from President down to town dogcatcher that buy into their ideology and worldview.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Part time jobs often become full time jobs over time as employers get more confident in the economic outlook.

Look at consumer confidence, you can say the BLS numbers are fake if you're a crazy fringe guy but how do you explain people feeling better about their economic prospects?

 

[quickwhips]

He is right we should have got Jill Stein up in this piece.

 

[gutter_trash]

LOL at ideologues who decide not to vote or spoil their ballots.

For sure there is not much choice but you do have a choice of cock-blocking the worse choice by voting for the lesser of two evils.

This. The problem is that people on the left tend to fall in love with someone, vote for him wholeheartedly, and then expect everything to work itself out, becoming disenfranchised when it doesn't. Meanwhile people on the right are running guys from President down to town dogcatcher that buy into their ideology and worldview.

the Left does not exist in the US, besides Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Obama is center-right.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

If you're going to approach our electoral system as corrupt and broken, then nothing short of an Arab Spring style revolution can change the system.

I do and it wont. Capitalist liberal democracy is the most effective way of maintaining a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. It does nothing but decieve the people into thinking they actually have a say in the way society is run by virtue of them ticking a box every so often. Being given the choice between crunchy and smooth peanut butter doesn't mean shit if you dont want fucking peanut butter on your sandwich.

In a Capitalist system, the government doesn't work for the people. It works for the interests of Capital and does it's best to maintain Bourgeois control of society. Sure they may throw a few concessions down to the rabble to pacify them, but actual change will not come from above (or through the system - the very system they control) as the ruling class would never give up their power and privilege voluntarily.

 

[Halvie]

A Republican president probably would be getting more things done. Terrible, awful, horrible things that would set the country back for decades.

The G.O.P. has been hijacked, and a Romney presidency, despite the fact that I believe Romney is a moderate, would have been beholden to the radical right wingers that got him into office. That's how the G.O.P. works now - the radicals use the threat of a primary challenge to bend otherwise moderate Republicans to their will.

And you can bet that the Tea Party types wouldn't have hesitated to launch a primary challenge against Romney in 2015 if he tried to marginalize them.

Such as?

All accounts say that Romney was 100% convinced that polls were wrong and he was headed for victory. He was genuinely shocked (and angry) when it turned out that, umm, the polls were right.

Think about that. This guy is supposed to be a business genius yet he believed the unskewed BS over real metrics. Completely delusional.

Blows my mind. How could he think he would win when he couldn't even give clear answers about his tax plan. "Look at my website." Fuck you.

 

[Sanky Panky]

Part time jobs often become full time jobs over time as employers get more confident in the economic outlook.

Look at consumer confidence, you can say the BLS numbers are fake if you're a crazy fringe guy but how do you explain people feeling better about their economic prospects?

Unfortunately, thinking that increasing consumer confidence will increase consumer borrowing and recover the economy, is why the policy of our government/the Fed/banks is to pump money into the stock market, withhold housing supply/freeze foreclosures to create a manipulated housing bubble, in order for Joe Schome to think that all is well and he can go get a new car loan.

This focus on the wrong things will continue to bit us in the ass.

 

[ralexand]

I love all the pollyanish views of what a President can do with a legislative branch that refuses to compromise no matter the consequences.

The President was right about you guys fantasizing about politics being an exercise executed in a Sorkin penned fantasy.

 

[Link]

Such as?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/10/opinion/the-decline-of-north-carolina.html?_r=0

 

[Measley]

Would probably be exactly the same under Romney, if not worse. They're much closer than either of them would like you to believe. Obama has been a monumental disappointment, often appearing to be little more than Bush+.

Romney would be worse. We'd be looking at the privatization of education, a push to make gay marriage and abortion illegal, a decrease in taxes for the mega rich with increased tax burden on the poor, the elimination of the social safety net, the possible appointment of more conservative justices to the Supreme Court, elimination of health care reform with nothing in place to replace it, and more pointless military incursion into the Middle East.

I'm happy with my vote.

 

[BertramCooper]

Such as?

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=75090847

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Unfortunately, thinking that increasing consumer confidence will increase consumer borrowing and recover the economy, is why the policy of our government/the Fed/banks is to pump money into the stock market, withhold housing supply/freeze foreclosures to create a manipulated housing bubble, in order for Joe Schome to think that all is well and he can go get a new car loan.

This focus on the wrong things will continue to bit us in the ass.

Like it or not this is a consumption economy so if people aren't buying things we will suffer.

 

[Sanky Panky]

Like it or not this is a consumption economy so if people aren't buying things we will suffer.

I agree. If people have to continue to borrow to buy because wages are the same/lower, we will suffer even more. Obama and Romney are lackeys for those that want us to just borrow more.

 

[Fenderputty]

This thread got downright hilarious after the pictures of Ron and his son showed up.

 

[@____@]

I agree. If people have to continue to borrow to buy because wages are the same/lower, we will suffer even more. Obama and Romney are lackeys for those that want us to just borrow more.

So if you were dictator-in-chief, what would you do to fix the problems?

 

[Sanky Panky]

So if you were dictator-in-chief, what would you do to fix the problems?

Let the normal business cycle run, which includes recessions to trim off the inefficiencies. Let speculative lenders and financial institutions book the losses, and bail out the economy from the bottom up. Forgive mortgages and student loans, instead of perpetuating bubbles that are unsustainable. Give priority to real wage increases instead of new financial products that allow for more speculative lending.

The economy needs to shrink enough to be truly supported by a nation of savers/earners... not by a nation of emotional borrowers.

 

[Fenderputty]

So if you were dictator-in-chief, what would you do to fix the problems?

With regards to people actually being paid enough to spend money they have rather than money they don't, he might suggest creating a thread regarding living wages and overall worker compensation going down in relation to upper execs. Though we know how those threads go on GAF (no fault of Sanky).

Also a big fucking LOL to people thinking Obama could have gotten more done with this congress he's "working" with. What a fucking joke. Even when dems had "control" of all the branches in BHO's first term, he had to work with "blue dog dems" and douche bags like Joe fucking Lieberman.

 

[@____@]

Let the normal business cycle run, which includes recessions to trim off the inefficiencies. Let speculative lenders and financial institutions book the losses, and bail out the economy from the bottom up. Forgive mortgages and student loans, instead of perpetuating bubbles that are unsustainable. Give priority to real wage increases instead of new financial products that allow for more speculative lending.

The economy needs to shrink enough to be truly supported by a nation of savers/earners... not by a nation of emotional borrowers.

I actually agree with the basics of this post. Seems we'd be much better off if the students and home owners were bailed out, their credit score no longer in the shitter, more money to save/spend. This would definitely create more demand and more jobs. Unfortunately this was/nor is never going to happen. It's why the 'stimulus' that did happen would be the next best thing, though I agree it is still incredibly shitty.

 

[Fenderputty]

Let the normal business cycle run, which includes recessions to trim off the inefficiencies. Let speculative lenders and financial institutions book the losses, and bail out the economy from the bottom up. Forgive mortgages and student loans, instead of perpetuating bubbles that are unsustainable. Give priority to real wage increases instead of new financial products that allow for more speculative lending.

The economy needs to shrink enough to be truly supported by a nation of savers/earners... not by a nation of emotional borrowers.

Good luck getting a bottom up approach through this congress. I think Obama would be more left leaning if he had the opportunity to do so. He's a pragmatist though, and one who has to work with the current house GOP.

 

[Red Blaster]

He is right we should have got Jill Stein up in this piece.

assuming for a moment that we live in fantasyland where she would've conceivably won, what makes you believe she wouldn't capitulate on most everything she promised when having to work with an asshole congress.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

How Obama, who won the presidency by using the power of the energized masses twice, can't seem to figure out how to trump a broken GOP base is beyond me. Did he not notice how he changed the minds of millions of Americans when it came to gay rights overnight? Odd he doesn't need to be reminded of his job when pertaining to military power.

America needs a martyr. Someone to be hated for a better cause, sacrifice his political career in the process. Real change. Obama is not it. Neither was Romney, of course.

 

[Fenderputty]

How Obama, who won the presidency by using the power of the energized masses twice, can't seem to figure out how to trump a broken GOP base is beyond me. Did he not notice how he changed the minds of millions of Americans when it came to gay rights overnight? Odd he doesn't need to be reminded of his job when pertaining to military power.

America needs a martyr. Someone to be hated for a better cause, sacrifice his political career in the process. Real change. Obama is not it. Neither was Romney, of course.

How is he supposed to do that? The house is gerrymandered to all hell. A good portion of that GOP gerrymandered house is being primaried on the simple basis that they do or don't work with the man.

He's been trying to paint them as obstructionists. He's even just recently put out a proposal for adding jobs with the compromise of giving into tax rates. They still didn't work with him. They've still not given into the sequester. They're threatening government shutdown etc etc. THe house GOP is actively trying to sabotage anything this man wants to do for political gain and are doing so at the cost of their constituents well being (PPACA as an example). How the hell do you fight a group of people who would throw their own constituents under the buss for political gain? This is only expounded by the fact that the same constituents who just got tossed under the buss will now see their loss as a victory and cement their vote for their same shitty congressmen.

 

[Kak.efes]

They would have taken credit for the economic recovery, and espoused the benefits of their economic ideals, and policy for generations as having worked. That's why conservatives are so fucking bitter over losing.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I actually agree with the basics of this post. Seems we'd be much better off if the students and home owners were bailed out, their credit score no longer in the shitter, more money to save/spend. This would definitely create more demand and more jobs. Unfortunately this was/nor is never going to happen. It's why the 'stimulus' that did happen would be the next best thing, though I agree it is still incredibly shitty.

It'd also more or less destroy the private lending market. Whilst you may believe it's gone too far, who in their right mind would give a mortgage or a student loan again, knowing that the government has already seen fit to entirely wipe out that debt once before? It's not like the people who gave out the loan would get anything back. Debt and lending has an important role to play in any economy.

 

[BertramCooper]

I'm convinced that one of the root causes of all the dysfunction in Washington is the two-year House term.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

How is he supposed to do that? The house is gerrymandered to all hell. A good portion of that GOP gerrymandered house is being primaried on the simple basis that they do or don't work with the man.

He's been trying to paint them as obstructionists. He's even just recently put out a proposal for adding jobs with the compromise of giving into tax rates. They still didn't work with him. They've still not given into the sequester. They're threatening government shutdown etc etc.

You didn't get a single point I was trying to make if you think that last paragraph is addressing what I was talking about.
Here's a hint: In baseball, there are actually three teams in the stadium: the home team, the visitors and the audience.

 

[Fenderputty]

You didn't get a single point I was trying to make if you think that last paragraph is addressing what I was talking about.
Here's a hint: In baseball, there are actually three teams in the stadium: the home team, the visitors and the audience.

Yeah I'm probably just not following but I'll give it another whack ...

What the hell does selling the audience on his message have to do with anything? He's not selling that message to the portion of the audience that votes in the obstructionist congress members (Fans of The Visitors / the Visitors).

 

[@____@]

It'd also more or less destroy the private lending market. Whilst you may believe it's gone too far, who in their right mind would give a mortgage or a student loan again, knowing that the government has already seen fit to entirely wipe out that debt once before? It's not like the people who gave out the loan would get anything back. Debt and lending has an important role to play in any economy.

Yet the government decided to give hundreds of billions to banks. The same banks that helped cause the mess in the first place. Break up the banks (won't happen), offer a stimulus to the middle class (won't happen). Allow both private/government student loans to be forgiven via bankruptcy with less restrictions than what currently exists. Offer a true mortgage reform package. Spend tens of billions on infrastructure.

These are some changes that would go a long way to helping the very people that's the true blood of our economy.

 

[B-Dubs]

You didn't get a single point I was trying to make if you think that last paragraph is addressing what I was talking about.
Here's a hint: In baseball, there are actually three teams in the stadium: the home team, the visitors and the audience.

You realize the proposed gun control measures had a lot of popular support right? He's had the public on his side on multiple issues and they STILL didn't get done.

I'm convinced that one of the root causes of all the dysfunction in Washington is the two-year House term.

Combine that with the extremely lax campaign finance laws and I think you've got it. They constantly need to be raising money, so they can never take a vote that might cost them their seat/money.

 

[Sanky Panky]

It'd also more or less destroy the private lending market. Whilst you may believe it's gone too far, who in their right mind would give a mortgage or a student loan again, knowing that the government has already seen fit to entirely wipe out that debt once before? It's not like the people who gave out the loan would get anything back. Debt and lending has an important role to play in any economy.

It would actually encourage sound lending practices, by banks being unable to package and sell whatever shit mis-rated loans they can originate for fees and a few basis points. You are right that it would cripple the secondary market for these debt securities, but their creation in the late 70's is why we have gone through three major bubbles, countless recessions, higher income disparity between owners and debtors, etc etc.

The sad reality is that both Obama and Romney ultimately work for the same owners in our society. I'm not as mad at Obama for being a pushover by Congress, as I am for him just being more of the same.

 

[Fenderputty]

You realize the proposed gun control measures had a lot of popular support right? He's had the public on his side on multiple issues and they STILL didn't get done.

Which is why I don't understand his comment to me. The gerrymandered house has everything to do with why he can't crack the current GOP. National support be damned.

 

[B-Dubs]

Which is why I don't understand his comment to me. The gerrymandered house has everything to do with why he can't crack the current GOP. National support be damned.

Yes. If it's like a baseball game then Obama's taken the field, the audience is in the stands and the other team (the GOP in the House and Senate) refuses to leave the locker room except to complain that they haven't been able to score yet.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

You realize the proposed gun control measures had a lot of popular support right? He's had the public on his side on multiple issues and they STILL didn't get done.

All politics is local.

 

[ivysaur12]

I'm convinced that one of the root causes of all the dysfunction in Washington is the two-year House term.

All congressional districts should be drawn by a federal nonpartisan board.

All politics is local.

@ppppolls 1h
There's 59% support for extended background checks in Georgia...just among Republicans...73% support overall

 

[Haeralis The BRave]

He's completely right, in my opinion. Of course I've always supported Romney above President Obama, who seems completely inept at any domestic issues.

 

[commedieu]

when business interests trump ours, this is what you get. bush and obama are just as bad when it comes to this. mittens is kidding himself if he thinks anyone feels he would stand up to the koch brothers and co.

civilians need to start understanding our government is not in it for our health, education, or safety.

I hope we can stop playing Fucking teams, and get this through our collective head.

 

[speedline]

America needs a martyr. Someone to be hated for a better cause, sacrifice his political career in the process. Real change. Obama is not it. Neither was Romney, of course.

I agree, but politics is more about winning elections than administering change. The economic changes we need would be painful at first and be political suicide for whatever party enacted them.

 

[BertramCooper]

All congressional districts should be drawn by a federal nonpartisan board.

STATES' RIGHTS!

STATES' RIGHTS!

 

[GungHo]

STATES' RIGHTS!

STATES' RIGHTS!

The siren call of the man who desperately neeeds to oppress someone.

 

[Devolution]

Tell you one thing the Tea Party does right is that they're constantly up congressman's asses. The left could learn to do the same honestly. Shit.

 

[@____@]

He's completely right, in my opinion. Of course I've always supported Romney above President Obama, who seems completely inept at any domestic issues.

What do you think Romney would have done differently that would have improved the current economic state more than Obama has?

 

[Mission]

freedom and freedom

 

[Slavik81]

America needs a martyr. Someone to be hated for a better cause, sacrifice his political career in the process. Real change. Obama is not it. Neither was Romney, of course.

I'm not sure you understand how democracy works. To get your ideas turned into law, you need to convince other people to support them. Being hated usually doesn't help with that.

Obama can't just pass laws on his own, regardless of whether he is willing to sacrifice his political career or not.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I'm not sure you understand how democracy works. To get your ideas turned into law, you need to convince other people to support them. Being hated usually doesn't help with that.

Obama can't just pass laws on his own, regardless of whether he is willing to sacrifice his political career or not.

Not to mention if this hated President is only in office one term the guy succeeding him will reverse all the policies before they can even work.