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Phil Spencer responds to Sony's 'dig' at Gamescom

C

CosmicQueso

Member
keit4 said:
Because the people didn't know the details.
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Exactly.

They must have gathered feedback on all of the rumored things, but since they didn't publicly announce anything until E3, they could have easily dismissed that negativity on "well, those people don't understand our vision yet, and when they do they'll love it".

Obviously that didn't work out.

Look, they've reversed most policies, they're giving the majority what they seemingly want. Some of you seem to want them punished in some way, as though they should go out of business or be flogged or something because they made some choices months ago you didn't like. It's not like they ran over your dog.
 
H

Hindle

Banned
Most of the posters behind the anger were never going to get the X1 in the first place. I find thier false indignation hilarious really.
 
K

keit4

Banned
Pristine_Condition said:
It wasn't a dialog. It was them attempting to dictate terms, met with a massive, collective rejection of those terms by the core gaming community. An attempted edict followed by a swift and sure rebuke. There simply was no dialog. And to pretend that there was is really pretty deceitful.
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I agree with you, the dialog didn't happen in the way Phil is saying, but at least they are mending the previous errors taking into account the feedback (or low preorders, call it as you want, it's the same). They could have stuck with the original plan for some more time, but they saw the big fall ahead very quick and discarded the whole thing despite being working on it for years and building the whole ecosystem around this idea. This is not easy.

Kazuma Kiryu said:
Yeah, we just didn't know the details, microsoft had it right all along.
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That's not true, neither i'm implying that.
 
O

omonimo

Banned
Hindle said:
Most of the posters behind the anger were never going to get the X1 in the first place. I find thier false indignation hilarious really.
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Sweet Jesus, stop to defend M$ for a second, please & read again your post because it's embarassing in what tries to argue.
 
H

Hindle

Banned
omonimo said:
Sweet Jesus, stop to defend M$ for a second, please & read again your post because it's embarassing in what tries to argue.
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This time last year I was involved in arguements with people who were clearly stating thier preference for the PS4 before all the PR fiasco kicked off.

Now, they're still prefer the PS4, so shocking news really.

Basically, people have thier preferences, and they're always going to put a negative spin on anything the rival competitor makes, due to some misguided loyalty in a business who only cares about money.
 
U

ubersticky

Member
alr1ght said:
You weren't listening in the months leading up to the reveal.
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tumblr_mlb80drkJH1qz9sjco1_500.gif
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Touche.
 
P

Pristine_Condition

Member
keit4 said:
I agree with you, the dialog didn't happen in the way Phil is saying, but at least they are mending the previous errors taking into account the feedback (or low preorders, call it as you want, it's the same). They could have stuck with the original plan for some more time, but they saw the big fall ahead very quick and discarded the whole thing despite being working on it for years and building the whole ecosystem around this idea. This is not easy.
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I've got no problem with mending the horrible, broken policies with better policies that your customers are willing to stand.

I do have a problem when you are trying to "mend" the known history of how those changes came about with hilariously blatant lies.

I'd respect Microsoft a lot more if they just said, "we fucked up, and got our asses kicked, but that's ok, we'll do better" than take this approach. Be humble when your customers reject your attempt to act like a dictator, and people will be forgiving. Acting like this was all in the plan all along and just part of normal business comes off as totally arrogant and is insulting to the people who actually know the truth of how this all went down.
 
O

OmnipotentO

Member
Sure that's the attitude now. AFTER the 180. Rewind time back to when they first tried to push their bullshit on us. Where was the "two way conversation" there? Has everyone forgotten about the "lol then get a 360 you pleb," and "why would anyone live in No-Internet-Middle-of-Nowhere, USA." Also they cancelled a the Q&A session at an event (E3 I think it was) which is the total opposite of a 2 way conversation.
 
T

ThisWreckage

Banned
There was no two way conversation until they were getting slaughtered on pre orders. They sat completely silent and still while the whole Orth thing went down, continued to tell the gaming press and gamers that their philosophy is the future of gaming, arrogantly derided anyone that disagreed, and finally pulled a 180 on their vision when they realized that it wasn't going to fly. For him to pretend that Microsoft is some sort of company that lends its ear is disingenuous. The only thing they heard was the sound of money being lost hand in fist while Sony was dominating by making good decisions from the very start.
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
"Other people will do and say what they're going to say. Fine. We're running our program. That's a strength of who we are."
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Eh, aren't they changing up their program on a weekly basis :p
They got no solid plan or vision.
 
A

avaya

Member
Hindle said:
This time last year I was involved in arguements with people who were clearly stating thier preference for the PS4 before all the PR fiasco kicked off.

Now, they're still prefer the PS4, so shocking news really.

Basically, people have thier preferences, and they're always going to put a negative spin on anything the rival competitor makes, due to some misguided loyalty in a business who only cares about money.
Click to expand...

Pre-the bone reveal we had solid rumours of drm and always online and kinetct and gimped console spec wise, of course people would prefer ps4 in that scenario. Lets face facts Hindle, MS could shit down your throat and you'd still be gagging for it.
 
H

Hindle

Banned
avaya said:
Pre-the bone reveal we had solid rumours of drm and always online and kinetct and gimped console spec wise, of course people would prefer ps4 in that scenario. Lets face facts Hindle, MS could shit down your throat and you'd still be gagging for it.
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That's the second time you've insulted me Avaya. Such a pathetic way to post.

Edit. The rumours started roughly in Jan of this year. People were declaring thier preferences long before then. I don't know why I'm even replying to you, you're really not worth my time.
 
3

3rdamention

Member
"We built a platform for gamers"



Thats about when I had to stop. That is pretty hard to agree with, at least what they tried to introduce to us from the beginning at their reveal.




"And if we don't have the capability of listening and reacting to what people are saying about our platform, then we're being too disconnected from customers who make investments in our platform and the games we build"


There were people screaming all over the internet, twitter, social media, about the rumors of the anti consumer DRM policies that Microsoft was rumored to be integrating. Well before their reveal, begging them not to do it. They decided to stick to their guns and roll it out anyways. So yes, they were, at that time, too disconnected from gamers and thats why many are not making the investment into their platform. Who writes this stuff? Its like MIcrosoft thinks everyone forgot just a few months ago what they tried to peddle on gamers. Then, at e3, they cancel many of their interviews and Q&As with the media reporting to gamers because they had meetings with and about their corporate partnerships.
 
A

avaya

Member
Hindle said:
That's the second time you've insulted me Avaya. Such a pathetic way to post.

Edit. The rumours started roughly in Jan of this year. People were declaring thier preferences long before then. I don't know why I'm even replying to you, you're really not worth my time.
Click to expand...

Never change Hindle, never change.
 
S

Shosai

Banned
3rdamention said:
There were people screaming all over the internet, twitter, social media, about the rumors of the anti consumer DRM policies that Microsoft was rumored to be integrating. Well before their reveal, begging them not to do it. They decided to stick to their guns and roll it out anyways. So yes, they were, at that time, too disconnected from gamers and thats why many are not making the investment into their platform. Who writes this stuff? Its like MIcrosoft thinks everyone forgot just a few months ago what they tried to peddle on gamers. Then, at e3, they cancel many of their interviews and Q&As with the media reporting to gamers because they had meetings with and about their corporate partnerships.
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But again, is it realistic to cancel policies before they've even been introduced and detailed to the public? Most of the pushback was over rumors that the Xbox wouldn't allow used games or game sharing. As it turns out it did have an avenue for those things, which they assumed would satiate demand. It didn't.

Pristine_Condition said:
I'd respect Microsoft a lot more if they just said, "we fucked up, and got our asses kicked, but that's ok, we'll do better" than take this approach. Be humble when your customers reject your attempt to act like a dictator, and people will be forgiving. Acting like this was all in the plan all along and just part of normal business comes off as totally arrogant and is insulting to the people who actually know the truth of how this all went down.
Click to expand...

For that matter, how often to PR men use obscenities in PR releases?
 
U

Uno Venova

Banned
Shosai said:
But again, is it realistic to cancel policies before they've even been introduced and detailed to the public? Most of the pushback was over rumors that the Xbox wouldn't allow used games or game sharing. As it turns out it did have an avenue for those things, which they assumed would satiate demand. It didn't.
Click to expand...
They did cancel policies according to Cboat, it was an always online 24/7 console before it was introduced to the public.
 
R

Rat Salad

Banned
So basically Spencer wrote (in a politically correct way) that the haters can fuck off. LOL.

I agree. Take your hate and spend elsewhere then. Go aim it at something more constructive. Its video games ffs. And some of you need to have you head slapped with all the negative energy you've been spewing since May. Should be ashamed of yourselves is a better word i think.
 
M

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Rat Salad said:
So basically Spencer wrote (in a politically correct way) that the haters can fuck off. LOL.

I agree. Take your hate and spend elsewhere then. Go aim it at something more constructive. Its video games ffs. And some of you need to have you head slapped with all the negative energy you've been spewing since May. Should be ashamed of yourselves is a better word i think.
Click to expand...

Or we can take our money and spend that elsewhere and continue to criticize what we darn well please.
 
D

Dizzy

Banned
Spencer explained his position: "We built a platform for gamers. Gamers invest their time and their money in the things they want to play, and they're going to invest their time in telling us what they love about the platform, and they're giving us feedback on areas where they have more critical feedback.

“That two-way conversation with gamers has to be core to who we are as a platform. And if we don't have the capability of listening and reacting to what people are saying about our platform, then we're being too disconnected from customers who make investments in our platform and the games we build.”

“The two-way conversation that we have with gamers is critical,” he said. "If we weren't able to listen then I don't think we're really creating the ecosystem that means people want to come into the platform.
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and yet when everyone moaned about the drm, they spent weeks telling us how awesome it was going to be and how we should just bend over and take it.
 
E

E92 M3

Member
It really saddens me that with every passing day I am leaning more and more towards getting the PS4. This gen, the 360 was my PS2 (absolutely loved it) and I wanted MS next console to be just as great as the 360, but unfortunately we have all of these issues such as Kinect and price that have yet to be resolved. I say lower the price to 400 and keep the Kinect (it's actually cool tech, but not cool enough for me to shell out an extra hundred).

MS screwed up --- they screwed up big. Their vision for the Xbone - as directed by Don - was flawed and destined to fail: They lost sight of the fans that made the Xbox brand what is today. They figured we can be disregarded and thrown to the side for the casuals that love their TV and sports. They purposely "didn't target the high-end graphics." They said for us to get a 360 and shut up. They were too damn POMPOUS.

Phil, how can you talk about this being a gamer's machine and completely ignore everything your company said and done months earlier? You weren't having a two-way conversation with us. The only conversations taking place at Microsoft was between Ballmer and his army of Yes Men over a glass of Johnny Walker Blue about how much money they'll make of their idiot fans. Well shocking news, we had a voice.

Microsoft you don goofed.
 
Dlacy13g

Dlacy13g

Member
Pristine_Condition said:
ibh5G5UoWkZLup.jpg
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"The main pillar for the PS4 will be online play. We're developing many new ways to play and connect which requires a large investment of resources," Yoshida said.

"Considering the cost, to try to keep such a service free and consequently lower the quality would be absurd. We decided that if that's the case, then it would be better to receive proper payment and continue to offer a good service.

Yeah you are right ... policies can change. Nothing is guaranteed if the money isnt there for these companies.
 
S

SethMode

Neo Member
It's very easy to see why GAF gets a reputation for being pro-Sony/anti-MS (regardless of truth or fairness) when a thread gets started and explodes into a 7 page repeat of virtually the same comment 15 million times.

The vitriol is kind of amazing, at this point. The console has almost no momentum behind it, they've backpedaled on EVERYTHING that made them at all different from the competitor, they're cleary in damage control mode, and people are STILL angry at them and looking for every opportunity to get their dig in. I really am surprised some of you can muster this much anger at something that has a solution as easy as it was at any point: don't buy it.
 
B

BabeSlayer

Member
Iacobellis said:
A system for gamers? Yeah, cause a gamer's favorite thing to do is watch a game of football.
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It is one of this "gamers" favorite things to do.

I don't, nor have ever understood the hate for Microsoft other than some sort of weird loyalty to Playstation. Luckily I have no such loyalties and can enjoy both systems. TBH I am more excited about the Xb1. Kinect gets a lot of hate but I love it.
 
D

Dragonborn

Member
SethMode said:
It's very easy to see why GAF gets a reputation for being pro-Sony/anti-MS (regardless of truth or fairness) when a thread gets started and explodes into a 7 page repeat of virtually the same comment 15 million times.

The vitriol is kind of amazing, at this point. The console has almost no momentum behind it, they've backpedaled on EVERYTHING that made them at all different from the competitor, they're cleary in damage control mode, and people are STILL angry at them and looking for every opportunity to get their dig in. I really am surprised some of you can muster this much anger at something that has a solution as easy as it was at any point: don't buy it.
Click to expand...

People should not let up on the negativity. Yes, MS is changing, but the only way we can make sure they get the message is to show them the damage they've caused to the Xbox brand by voting with our wallets. This will insure that they, like Sony did last gen, will do everything in their power to get back the good will they had this gen and at the end of the day, we'll be the winners in this situation (unless MS continues their moneyhatting policies only instead of investing in new IPs/resurrecting older ones).
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Pristine_Condition said:
I'd respect Microsoft a lot more if they just said, "we fucked up, and got our asses kicked, but that's ok, we'll do better"
Click to expand...

This is exactly what they are saying through all of these actions and policy changes. Not sure how wall street and their investors would react to the use of f bombs in public statements anyways.

They've had a leadership change, backed off on almost every policy and are now trying to deliver a more appealing proposition. But that's not good enough? You want them to get on their knees and beg?
 
D

dragonbane

Member
KillerTravis said:
Exactly, why is Sony acting all high and mighty when their most recent platforms were such a failure?
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Because all people care about is the future. No one cares about Vita, so Sony's mistakes don't matter. PS3 mistakes are long forgotten. A bit sad maybe, but that's just how the world works.

XB1 DRM will be forgotten soon enough. But for now, Sony can milk it and has all the rights to do so.
 
Dr. Kitty Muffins

Dr. Kitty Muffins

Member
Hindle said:
Most of the posters behind the anger were never going to get the X1 in the first place. I find thier false indignation hilarious really.
Click to expand...

I've owned a PS2, Gamecube, Xbox , 360 and PS3 (along with an assortment of handhelds). Out of all those machines, I considered myself primarily an Xbox gamer. They pushed me away and it will be awhile before I come back. I figure after about 2 years they will flush out who they need to from the management structure and things will get rolling again for them. That is what it will take for me: removing those associated with the DRM mess. Only then can I trust them fully. Once they drop the price around that time, I'll see about coming back.

But I don't see anything false from anyone. If it were false, Microsoft wouldn't have reacted the way they did. They certainly wouldn't be in the preorder mess they are in now over in Europe having to offer a free Fifa game just to keep their preorders.
 
U

Ushae

Banned
avaya said:
Pre-the bone reveal we had solid rumours of drm and always online and kinetct and gimped console spec wise, of course people would prefer ps4 in that scenario. Lets face facts Hindle, MS could shit down your throat and you'd still be gagging for it.
Click to expand...

How is this not ban worthy. Take it easy there fella, its only a games console..
 
M

Moon_frogger

Member
Lol good attempt to spin their horrible blunders. I've literally never seen a company so afraid of their audience and they should be, their policies are horrid.
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Moon_frogger said:
Lol good attempt to spin their horrible blunders. I've literally never seen a company so afraid of their audience and they should be, their policies are horrid.
Click to expand...

Their policies are horrid or were horrid? Genuinely curious as to what is still horrid seeing as now it's pretty much the X360 again.
 
J

Joeki11a

Banned
KillerTravis said:
Exactly, why is Sony acting all high and mighty when their most recent platforms were such a failure?
Click to expand...

because Ps3 sold more than xbox 360 on Earth, supposedly thats a fact so they "won"
and then MS messed up with their reveal,
Sony took that and made history with it at E3.
Sony are not scared of big bad MS anymore,
notice they keep taking shots at each conference, American shot....UK shot next up TGS...
 
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