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[EGM1966]

Slick response (got to hand it to him) but sadly it's clearly damage response because everything MS said around initial reveal and their immediately following comments contradicts his declared stance.

Best case MS is now in that mode but it sure wasn't a month or two ago.

 

[Poker360]

It's harder to sort out things when your console has already launched. They couldn't put in cross game chat, for example, because they couldn't find the memory to do so in the PS3. It's not that Sony was being lazy, they simply couldn't. Microsoft still apparently had time to make changes with Xbone so they did. I don't see how that's comparable though. People whined to Microsoft for months and they flat out told people to get over it. It wasn't until late June that things changed. Sony did not ever tell people to fuck off, they always stuck to their plans and told people they were listening and interested in their fans. Regarding the Xbone, Microsoft wasn't always interested in consumer feedback. In May and June they were confirming the rumors to be true and going so far as to belittle people for living in places with mediocre Internet to insulting naval submarine soldiers to telling customers to just buy a 360 because Xbone wasn't made for them. To go from that to say WE ALWAYS LISTEN TO OUR FANS is a change of tune, inconsistent with their previous behaviors and just PR shit.

It's not like they could, you know, flip a switch or anything. That's how it was built.

 

[Sky Chief]

He would have done better just to keep his mouth shut than praise himself for not doing something shitty

 

[Plywood]

Clearly based on the responses here he might have well just said " Sony Execs are just a bunch of Dbags for pullin that stunt" seems like whatever response he gave would be met with the same response.

You can't really blame the negativity they're receiving based on their actions leading up to this moment.

Building a false narrative of "we've been having an ongoing conversation with the consumers" only months after what built into this backlash is just disingenuous.

Some people is having a hard time understanding that this business (like any other) is driven by money.

Yes it is, but a consumer enthusiast forum doesn't and shouldn't have to view things objectively.

 

[Rashid]

Honestly, I would've preferred xbone keep all its DRM and it's original vision. Now it's just a worse ps4 that's more expensive and has a great camera with it. Is rather they were 2 distinct consoles rather then becoming so samey.

 

[soundahfekz]

I'd rather they try new stuff than simply more of the same.

I can get much better performance on the PC than the consoles if that's the thing that matters to me.

new stuff like invasive drm and crazy used game policies? That shits a feature now? I know we arent talking about family sharing? Yeah the old XB1 policy and features were so innovate...................

 

[rothbart]

Pre-order numbers are the best and most clear source of determining feedback.

Don't know why people separate that from raving comments on the internet.

They're one and the same.

Because low pre-orders simply mean people aren't interested. "Raving comments on the internet" often include information like the _reasons_ people aren't interested. Microsoft would happily ignore those comments if they had competitive preorder numbers. You can take that to the bank.

 

[Hooflung128]

Man, I was hoping he'd come out with something like "Maybe some other platform holders would've done well to listen to feedback a few years back, there were at least 599 good reasons to do so..."

Would have reconsidered a preorder on that bravado alone.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Honestly, I would've preferred xbone keep all its DRM and it's original vision. Now it's just a worse ps4 that's more expensive and has a great camera with it. Is rather they were 2 distinct consoles rather then becoming so samey.

I'm still not all that sure that the original vision was of much consequence other than maybe game sharing.

It's pretty clear at this point that Kinect is still a huge part of their plans moving forward and that cloud services continue to be touted as a major factor despite always online DRM no longer being a thing.

 

[delta25]

Hi Phil, I'm ready for your Kinectbox.


don't listen to this noob.

the "noob" speaks the truth

 

[Hooflung128]

Honestly, I would've preferred xbone keep all its DRM and it's original vision. Now it's just a worse ps4 that's more expensive and has a great camera with it. Is rather they were 2 distinct consoles rather then becoming so samey.

So you wanted it to not only be the worst console but also the worst game ecosystem?

 

[Loakum]

Listened to feedback? Yeah, Microsoft listened to the crys of panick from executives, when their "internal data showed how drastic the Xbox One was behind the PS4 in pre order sales figures.....and they've been changing course ever-since.

 

[Kerub]

I wonder what his account name is?

 

[keit4]

That sounds like your own interpretation of what others think.

Well, people keep saying that they didn't changed their policies until the low preorders happened. What did they expect? After the Adam Orth thing and before the console presentation the only feedback Microsoft had was the opinion (based on a rumour) of a minority from internet forums, very far of being representative. They had a more accurate vision of the whole situation after the policies were made public.

 

[soundahfekz]

Listened to feedback? Yeah, Microsoft listened to the crys of panick from executives, when their "internal data showed how drastic the Xbox One was behind the PS4 in pre order sales figures.....and they've been changing course ever-since.

But think of all the features we're missing on out man! Microsoft just wanted to do something different and the ungrateful massess pushed them away from innovation. We'll always wonder what the Xb1 COULD'VE been.

Spoiler

it WOULD'VE been WiiU status had they kept things the same

 

[mekes]

2 way conversation? I thought your company had a product for anyone who didn't like the Xbone, it was the 360 wasn't it? What a dick. Hate people with no balls who cant answer a simple question, it isn't politics - we just want a good games console.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

“The two-way conversation we have with our customers is a strength. Certain people have tried to turn that into something that's a bad thing about what we're trying to do, and I just disagree."

No, you didn't have a two way conversation with us. It was one way only. Mattrick's way. Thus, you had to reverse course on DRM. Then and only then did you begin to listen and have that two way "conversation" with us.

 

[polyh3dron]

Reading his response gave me douchechills.

 

[RumblePuff]

Feedback = Shitty pre-order numbers.

I'd say that was pretty spot on.

 

[Uno Venova]

Well, people keep saying that they didn't changed their policies until the low preorders happened. What did they expect? After the Adam Orth thing and before the console presentation the only feedback Microsoft had was the opinion (based on a rumour) of a minority from internet forums, very far of being representative. They had a more accurate vision of the whole situation after the policies were made public.

And Phil said they changed so much of their policies because of a two way conversation with fans, and what the fans were saying. Since people know that is bullshit and it was pre-orders, they are calling that out in this thread.

And they did change some aspects of the XBO console because of feedback, moving from all day check ins to every 24 hours. Obviously not enough though.

 

[derFeef]

He would have done better just to keep his mouth shut than praise himself for not doing something shitty

That's not how interviews work.

 

[keit4]

And Phil said they changed so much of their policies because of a two way conversation with fans, and what the fans were saying. Since people know that is bullshit and it was pre-orders, they are calling that out in this thread.

And they did change some aspects of the XBO console because of feedback, moving from all day check ins to every 24 hours. Obviously not enough though.

The two way conversation happened:

MS: "This is our console and these are the policies"

People: "We don't like your product because your policies, so we are not buying it".

(one month later)

MS: "Ok then, we heard our fans, no more DRM"

People: "We also want more indie support"

(two months later)

MS: "Here you go"

People: "We don't want Kinect. We want a cheaper Kinect-less SKU"

(to be continued)

Until now Microsoft's response was flawless.

 

[Killing_Joke]

There's one major reason why i won't give MS full props for the 180's. The negative outcry happened MONTHS before they revealed the damn thing. Always online, always kinect, DRM, no used games, etc. Then the infamous "why would i live there?". This shit was doomed before the reveal.

Then all shit broke loose. The reveal came and everything turned out to be true. Epic PR failure. Easily the worse the industry has seen imo. One person said this and another said that. E3 came and it continued. "don't have good online connection? get a 360", "DRM can't be switched off" etc.

I bet original preorders didn't even crack 50k. It's definitely not a bad thing to do all these 180's. I'm sure they pleased a lot of people. But i have zero trust in this current team.
So yeah, i'm not going to drop $500 on a rushed system that has no sense of direction. I'll wait till their "new" vision is more fleshed out.

 

[krypt0nian]

More like directionless.

 

[nib95]

The two way conversation happened:

MS: "This is our console and these are the policies"

People: "We don't like your product because your policies, so we are not buying it".

(one month later)

MS: "Ok then, we heard our fans, no more DRM"

People: "We also want more indie support"

(two months later)

MS: "Here you go"

People: "We don't want Kinect. We want a cheaper Kinect-less SKU"

(to be continued)

Until now Microsoft's response was flawless.

Bwahaha. That's a very generous way to put it.

More like.

MS: "This is our console and instead of clearly explaining our policies we're going to contradict ourselves, make shit up, lie and disguise it all in PR sluff"

People: "We don't like your product because your policies, so we are not buying it".

MS: "Tough. We're not changing it. Don't like it, buy a 360."

People: "Well piss off then, we'll get a PS4 instead"

MS: "Meh, we're not changing it."

Some time later after massive media backlash and awful pre-order numbers.

MS: "Ok, we need to 180 on our policies"

People: "What about all the other stuff Sony is ahead of you on, like Indie support?"

MS: "Yea abut that, tba."

In the mean time the number of developers working on the PS4 goes from over 100 to over 500.

MS: "Ok, we need to 180 on our policies, here's similar indie support!"

People: "Cool. Now about that Kinectless cheaper console?"

MS: "No way, we're committed to Kinect!"

(to be continued, eg when Microsoft flounders more and more sales to Sony and has no choice but to cave in.)

 

[lantus]

I honestly didn't expect him to respond that well. Good response, but the damage has already been done by none other than Microsoft themselves. Good for them though, I suppose.

 

[Uno Venova]

The two way conversation happened:

MS: "This is our console and these are the policies"

People: "We don't like your product because your policies, so we are not buying it".

(one month later)

MS: "Ok then, we heard our fans, no more DRM"

People: "We also want more indie support"

(two months later)

MS: "Here you go"

People: "We don't want Kinect. We want a cheaper Kinect-less SKU"

(to be continued)

Until now Microsoft's response was flawless.

But people were voicing their concerns much longer than 1 month before they changed, it's been fans screaming at a brick wall since February, and they finally buckled after numbers came in, not before telling people to buy a 360 if they don't like their policies though.

 

[keit4]

More like directionless.

This is a comment i can agree with.

As i say in a previous thread Microsoft's fault is to be out of touch with the gaming community. Hopefully this will change after Mattrick's exit.

fanfiction

You can put what happened in the way you want, but you can't deny the quick response.

But people were voicing their concerns much longer than 1 month before they changed, it's been fans screaming at a brick wall since February, and they finally buckled after numbers came in.

As i said previously, the opinion (based on a rumour) of a minority from internet forums is very far of being representative.

 

[nib95]

You can put what happened in the way you want, but you can't deny the quick response.

A quick response would have been killing the awful anti consumer policies before E3, but instead they were arrogant and thought they could weather the storm, and instead got a face full of angst once it all hit the global eye.

 

[Ushae]

Listen to this: WE DON'T WANT KINECT. YOUR CONSOLE IS TOO WEAK.

Speak for yourself, I cannot wait to try it out.

 

[SpeedNut]

I think the point missed by Phil is that his staff had no idea what the customer wanted. All of their analysis was wrong. To miss the mark that badly should (and in some cases) did end some careers at Microsoft. To glaze it over as a "strength" and a two-way street is just to try to put some air freshener on a stinky pile that was the Pre-E3 to E3 time period.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Because low pre-orders simply mean people aren't interested. "Raving comments on the internet" often include information like the _reasons_ people aren't interested. Microsoft would happily ignore those comments if they had competitive preorder numbers. You can take that to the bank.

Of course they would have ignored all the comments if they had competitive pre-order numbers, because that would have meant that the comments were just surface level babble.

 

[hoos30]

I think the point missed by Phil is that his staff had no idea what the customer wanted. All of their analysis was wrong. To miss the mark that badly should (and in some cases) did end some careers at Microsoft. To glaze it over as a "strength" and a two-way street is just to try to put some air freshener on a stinky pile that was the Pre-E3 to E3 time period.

It's PR talk, of course there is fluff. He did not, however, run over someone's baby, which you would think he did judging by the response here.

 

[Uno Venova]

As i said previously, the opinion (based on a rumour) of a minority from internet forums is very far of being representative.

But the negative reaction wasn't limited to forums. Especially adam orth.

 

[keit4]

A quick response would have been killing the awful anti consumer policies before E3, but instead they were arrogant and thought they could weather the storm, and instead got a face full of angst once it all hit the global eye.

You can't blame them for having faith in the ecosystem in which they were working for a couple of years. The response was quick enough.

But the negative reaction wasn't limited to forums. Especially adam orth.

The media reaction to the Adam Orth situation was more about his tweets and the stupid comments he made.

 

[Kade]

You don't get a second chance merely months after fucking things up big time. People don't give a shit about empty PR, release your console and reedeem yourself with acts and not with empty promises.

We aren't friends with multimillion corporations, they only get trust if they deserve it, and MS pretty much burned all trust they had in the past few months. Gotta work your way to the top again, this isn't a charity.

And it looks like they're putting in work. You're lying if you say they aren't.

 

[Shosai]

But people were voicing their concerns much longer than 1 month before they changed, it's been fans screaming at a brick wall since February, and they finally buckled after numbers came in, not before telling people to buy a 360 if they don't like their policies though.

Has there been any instance of any other console altering major features at a faster clip? I could sympathize with people who got burned by these policies if they, you know, actually went on to affect anyone in any tangible way.

 

[Uno Venova]

The media reaction to the Adam Orth situation was more about his tweets and the stupid comments he made.

Yes, relating to the drm and the negative reaction to it from gamers, posted everywhere.

Has there been any instance of any other console altering major features at a faster clip? I could sympathize with people who got burned by these policies if they, you know, actually went on to affect anyone in any tangible way.

No argument from me there.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

The two-way conversation we have with our customers is a strength.

That two-way conversation with gamers has to be core to who we are as a platform. And if we don't have the capability of listening and reacting to what people are saying about our platform, then we're being too disconnected from customers who make investments in our platform and the games we build.

“The two-way conversation that we have with gamers is critical,” he said. "If we weren't able to listen then I don't think we're really creating the ecosystem that means people want to come into the platform.

Other people will do and say what they're going to say. Fine. We're running our program. That's a strength of who we are.

 

[Stone Ocean]

And it looks like they're putting in work. You're lying if you say they aren't.

"Looks" means nothing. The fact that they are trying to redeem themselves doesn't mean they have.

There's a lot of goodwill to get back and that ain't getting fixed by last minute regret. Masking themselves as caring doesn't make people forget their original intentions.

But yes, they are trying and should keep trying.

 

[keit4]

Yes, relating to the drm and the negative reaction to it from gamers, posted everywhere.

Ok, let's assume you are right. People were talking about a rumour, not about something concrete. Maybe MS wanted to share his thing before get rid of it, don't you think?

gifs

Major Nelson is a PR tool, what did you expect him to say? The switch thing and the outcome was hilarious though.

 

[Uno Venova]

Ok, let's assume you are right. People were talking about a rumour, not about something concrete. Maybe MS wanted to share his thing before get rid of it, don't you think?

Sure, I don't know why they expected a different reaction though after getting a unanimous one for months.

 

[spookyfish]

If Henry Ford asked people what they wanted before the automobile, they would have said they wanted faster horses.

Funny thing about that: People were happy with the options they had. Ford presented people with more options. Microsoft presented us with less.

It's not an equivalent argument. Less consumer choice is not "paving new ground for customers!!!"

 

[Toki767]

A simple "We screwed up, now we're trying our best to right the wrong." or something along those lines would have garnered way more positivity than PR jargon.

 

[keit4]

Sure, I don't know why they expected a different reaction though after getting a unanimous one for months.

Because the people didn't know the details.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Major Nelson is a PR tool, what did you expect him to say? The switch thing and the outcome was hilarious though.

I think this revisionist history that they are trying to foist on us now is more hilarious.

I mean, this idea that this whole thing was a dialog that they welcomed and enjoyed being a part of is so far removed from the reality of how the whole reversal of policies went down...it's actually yet another insult gamers' intellegence that they think that, with a few PR statements, they can gloss over a chain of events we all can so easily remember happening just a couple months ago.

It wasn't a dialog. It was them attempting to dictate terms, met with a massive, collective rejection of those terms by the core gaming community. An attempted edict followed by a swift and sure rebuke. There simply was no dialog. And to pretend that there was is really pretty deceitful.

How stupid does Microsoft think we are? It's like they have gone FULL CARNEY now. They should just go ahead and start calling us all "marks" and "rubes" from now on in their internal documents.

 

[Uno Venova]

Because the people didn't know the details.

Yeah, details that didn't change the crux of what people were mad about, they expected a different reception apparently, I'm surprised they did.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Funny thing about that: People were happy with the options they had. Ford presented people with more options. Microsoft presented us with less.

It's not an equivalent argument. Less consumer choice is not "paving new ground for customers!!!"

You're taking it out of context. The post I was responding to was basically saying that MS should only give people exactly what they ask for, not try to do anything different. And all I was saying is that, more often than not, in product development you can't just listen to the customer when you're trying to do something new because a customer can only look on what they've had experience with.

And I also reject that Microsoft was presenting anyone with less. It was actually the opposite, they were offering too much change, and they completely failed in communicating the benefits of those changes effectively.

So yes, it's a completely equivalent argument. I'm not saying what they were offering was good or bad, or that the Xbox One was like cars (ffs) I'm just talking about the process.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Because the people didn't know the details.

Yeah, we just didn't know the details, microsoft had it right all along.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Feedback = Shitty pre-order numbers.

Well of course. Few preorders = few dollars made. Every company does what the money tells them they can do.