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[hawk2025]

Now that you mentioned it I do recall seeing this. However, I don't really follow what it has to do with this thread.

...you don't see how a writer attempting to buddy up to someone in a company by breaking an NDA of another one is related to this thread?




Really? It has EVERYTHING to do with what's being discussed.

Who covered this story of Gies clear and direct unethical behavior? Absolutely no one.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

and here i thought people bought consoles based on the games available to said console.

I agree which is why I am buying a PS4 for $400. I get great exclusives and the games that are on both will look and run better. See? Buying a console for games versus power are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Wille517]

Now that you mentioned it I do recall seeing this. However, I don't really follow what it has to do with this thread.

It has everything to do with this, it's a blatant example of the utter lack of integrity in gaming "journalism".

 

[Glass Shark]

Care to quote my whole post?

Or do you refute the technical information released on the next gen games and systems?

I'm really starting to question your intentions here, with the massive amount of posts in this thread.

I've never refuted any of the technical stuff. It's pretty clear that the PS4 is more powerful than the XO. That's one of the reasons why I'm getting a PS4, even though this generation I was an Xbox 360 guy.

Again, I am a freelancer who has done review work for several websites, and I run my own site that covers Steam games. I don't have any reason to try to maintain some imaginary relationship I have with Microsoft. I've been happy to link to my own tweets in this thread where I've been critical of them.

All I'm suggesting is that people calm down a bit, and that it's irresponsible to imply that all of games journalism is "broken" or somehow on the take because a few people have said "wait and see what these systems look and behave like in real life before you assume."

 

[jschreier]

oh shut up. the differences are there, period. people have known the hardware differences and gaming press like you said "oh we should wait because hardware does not matter, software does."

suddenly we have hard evidence of multiple games being (surprise surprise) graphically inferior in the inferior hardware. now what? "oh they're negligible. games will get better."

hypocrites. from which forum do the gaming press get their news nowadays? if anything, neogaf has been doing your job for the past year.

The fact that you believe in this inane "us vs. them" narrative where every reporter in gaming thinks and writes the same things says to me you don't actually pay attention to the world of games media, which makes me wonder why I should listen to what you have to say. Do you think every writer at Kotaku feels the same way about every subject? Do you think everyone at IGN has the exact same ethical guidelines? Do you really think there's such thing as "gaming press like me"? Give me a break.

If you want to keep participating in this truly epic circlejerk where people type on and on about the "Doritocracy" and how the games press must be on Microsoft's payroll, be my guest. Meanwhile, in the real world, where different reporters have different opinions and perspectives, I'll pay attention to the people who realize that articles like this are the very definition of bad journalism (the line "an attempt to appease the ad overlords, perhaps?" might tip you off there), and that there's nuance to this conversation that might actually require, believe it or not, critical thinking that goes beyond "games journalists bad, they all corrupt and bias!!!"

 

[hawk2025]

The fact that you believe in this inane "us vs. them" narrative where every reporter in gaming thinks and writes the same things says to me you don't actually pay attention to the world of games media, which makes me wonder why I should listen to what you have to say. Do you think every writer at Kotaku feels the same way about every subject? Do you think everyone at IGN has the exact same ethical guidelines? Do you really think there's such thing as "gaming press like me"? Give me a break.

If you want to keep participating in this truly epic circlejerk where people type on and on about the "Doritocracy" and how the games press must be on Microsoft's payroll, be my guest. Meanwhile, in the real world, where different reporters have different opinions and perspectives, I'll pay attention to the people who realize that articles like this are the very definition of bad journalism (the line "an attempt to appease the ad overlords, perhaps?" might tip you off there), and that there's nuance to this conversation that might actually require, believe it or not, critical thinking that goes beyond "games journalists bad, they all corrupt and bias!!!"

J, you are a good guy and honestly one of my favorite reporters working in gaming right now.

Do you have any opinions on what I highlighted above with Arthur Gies? Why has this led to nothing? Why is what happened ok with absolutely zero consequences for him?

 

[Replicant]

All I'm suggesting is that people calm down a bit, and that it's irresponsible to imply that all of games journalism is "broken" or somehow on the take because a few people have said "wait and see what these systems look and behave like in real life before you assume."

People are not calling gaming journalism is broken just because of that. But because of myriad of other issues that have proceeded that ON TOP of this particular issue on its own. They are calling gaming journalism for shilling because time and time again, gaming journalism have proven themselves to be untrustworthy and prioritized the needs of the publishers than the needs of the customers (ie. DRM-gate).

 

[old]

This author's argument is:

1. The only consideration when buying systems is price and specs.

2. The Xbox One offers gamers nothing beyond its specs and price.

3. Therefore nobody should buy an Xbox One and anybody who says otherwise is a paid shill.

He's absolutely wrong on every single count. In fact, his narrow-minded approach to the issue makes me suspect his attacks on other's impartiality is actually him projecting.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

Hey does anyone remember the E3 press conference when MS announced that everyone at attendance would be receiving a free Xbox 360 slim?

And does anyone remember hearing of a single person in the press that refused that freebie because of the appearance of impropriety? Yeah neither do I.

 

[NervousXtian]

Wait, Cinemablend?

They shouldn't really be calling out anyone with how poor their site is...

..and if someone wants a Xbone over a PS4.. who gives a shit? Some of the people these days are bordering on the behavior of that crazy born-again christian guy we had at work a few years back who had to "testify" to everyone and convince them to join his church.

 

[frizby]

Of course.

This exchange happened on Twitter:

Gies then proceeded to quickly delete the tweet.

Jesus. Gies really is the worst, isn't he?

 

[Glass Shark]

Uhm what? You claimed you were in the industry therefore having insider information that us normal consumers don't have as to what actually goes on. I don't see any proof of that when I look at a website you "work" for, probably in a volunteer role, that can't run up more than 160 twitter followers.

I do work in the industry. I'm not going to sit there and say I'm like GameSpot level of authority or anything because I'm not. But I've written freelance reviews for publications that have been listed on Metacritic, which many people believe is completely corrupt.

I have not been pressured by a publisher (or my editors on behalf of a publisher) to review a game in a particular way or give it a good score. Everyone I know in the industry, including a few freelancers who have written for large publications like GameSpot, IGN, etc. has had the same experience. It's laughable to suggest that corruption in the industry is so prevalent, because if it was, hard evidence of it would have come out by now. There are too many people working in this industry to keep it a secret.

 

[hawk2025]

Jesus. Gies really is the worst, isn't he?

Frankly, I'm absolutely more than willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt on certain things simply due to their different tastes.

But this... this was absolutely despicable.

 

[frizby]

This author's argument is:

1. The only consideration when buying systems is price and specs.

2. The Xbox One offers gamers nothing beyond its specs and price.

3. Therefore nobody should buy an Xbox One and anybody who says otherwise is a paid shill.

He's absolutely wrong on every single count. In fact, his narrow-minded approach to the issue makes me suspect his attacks on other's impartiality is actually him projecting.

This is a straw man, and a very weak one at that.

Nice work.

 

[Mr. X]

Arthur Gies allegedly breaking NDA to tell Albert Penello of Microsoft that Sony's PS4 review units have reached the press is kind of big. He's throwing all of Polygon and its owners in the line of fire.

 

[NervousXtian]

You'll recall that this was right after the 720p rumor came out, but was not related to that -- Sessler started tweeting mysteriously, and Gies joined in. At the time we didn't know what it was about, but now we do, and as Gies mentioned it had nothing to do with Microsoft. It was about Sony sending review units to the press.

Gies then proceeded to quickly delete the tweet.

Did you ever actually get confirmation that was Sessler's problem? As far as I could tell people just assumed that was it. Because honestly a free PS4 doesn't match up with what he tweeted.

...and Gies tweet doesn't many anything, and talking to Penello make's him untrustworthy? Really, you guys read too much into tweets.

 

[Curufinwe]

Of course.

This exchange happened on Twitter:

You'll recall that this was right after the 720p rumor came out, but was not related to that -- Sessler started tweeting mysteriously, and Gies joined in. At the time we didn't know what it was about, but now we do, and as Gies mentioned it had nothing to do with Microsoft. It was about Sony sending review units to the press.

Gies then proceeded to quickly delete the tweet.

So you think Gies filled in Penello on CoD being 720p on Xbone? Surely Penello already knew that.

 

[Teletraan1]

Step 1) turn forum console flame wars into an article
Step 2) get linked by forums
Step 3) profit

If you say you want better journalism in gaming yet you posted in support of this article, you're part of the problem.

It is a terribly written article. It contains a lot of fanboy garbage. However, this is a topic that a lot of people are ravenous to talk about. There are a lot of things that are suspect in the enthusiast press and it is very obvious. Trust of your industry as a whole is probably at an all time low. Time to nutt up and start stepping on some toes or you are going to be completely irrelevant rather than just mostly irrelevant.

 

[hawk2025]

Did you ever actually get confirmation that was Sessler's problem? As far as I could tell people just assumed that was it. Because honestly a free PS4 doesn't match up with what he tweeted.

...and Gies tweet doesn't many anything, and talking to Penello make's him untrustworthy? Really, you guys read too much into tweets.

So you think Gies filled in Penello on CoD being 720p on Xbone? Surely Penello already knew that.

Read the tweet. Gies says directly that Microsoft had nothing to do with any of it.
If it had nothing to do with Microsoft, it had nothing to do with the 720p rumor-of-the-day.

No, of course we don't know for sure it wasn't exactly that, but what we do know is that he asked for Penello's email in order to give him some information that did not pertain to Microsoft, that he was not willing to share with his readers, AND that he made sure to delete right after, while saying that he only talks "with MS about MS stuff".

Something is surely wrong here, correct?

 

[unbias]

Honestly, I still don't see the logic in saying that Polygon was somehow shilling for EA when they were very clear that SimCity was busted and lowered the score multiple times. Call their efforts to warn gamers misguided if you want, but at least they tried to make the problems known with their review score.

Huh... So I'm assuming you think Barry Bonds is clean?

The media is industry 1st, consumer 2nd. PS3 Skyrim, Diablo 3, Sim City(outside of a select few), DRM and use game issue, Spore, Wainwright, so many PR people who used to be the media and vise versa, and a whole host of other issues showing the disconnect between the consumers.

Then you have Ben Kuchera, Ben Parfitt, Rob Crossley, Arthur Gies, and many others always being pro indsutry over consumer.

The media that is supposed to be there for the consumer and they seem to, for the most part, be PR for the industry or preferring the industry over the consumer, which hey is fine, just don't complain when you have more layoffs. We have more then enough evidence of the games media to think they are not on the consumers side.

Oh and if you think Polygon, with SimCity wasnt schilling for SimCity: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=524733&highlight=john+walker

 

[goomba]

I agree which is why I am buying a PS4 for $400. I get great exclusives and the games that are on both will look and run better. See? Buying a console for games versus power are not mutually exclusive.

So you must have owned a Master System over a NES and an Xbox over a ps2 ?

 

[jschreier]

It is a terribly written article. It contains a lot of fanboy garbage. However, this is a topic that a lot of people are ravenous to talk about. There are a lot of things that are suspect in the enthusiast press and it is very obvious. Trust of your industry as a whole is probably at an all time low. Time to nutt up and start stepping on some toes or you are going to be completely irrelevant rather than just mostly irrelevant.

I'm not super-worried. Your trust might be at an all-time low, but our traffic is at an all-time high, thanks to our continual news-breaking and in-depth reporting on everything from next-gen console details to the fall of LucasArts. It's a bummer that gamers seem so angry at my field, but I'm okay with continuing to do my job as best as I can do it. If people don't want to trust me because of absurd articles like this, or because they believe in the "us vs. them" narrative, then that's a real shame. But I hope most readers who care about these issues are intelligent enough to pay attention to individual writers instead of believing that the "games press" is some sort of unified blob of opinion.

 

[Dahbomb]

Well let's just say that its one of the following issues:

1) Gaming journalism is extremely incompetent and inconsistent (article comparison where they made a big deal about a small resolution difference in a previous article and then downplayed the difference between 720P and 1080P)

2) Gaming journalism has particular innate bias towards specific companies/publishers (like a particular person's hatred towards all Platinum games)

3) Gaming journalism is on the take from companies/publishers to not write completely negative stuff about them/make them look good (like Gamespot Kane and Lynch debacle)


Of course this is not against every game site out there. This is about particular examples as I have cited. Not everyone is incompetent or on the take but someone definitely is.

 

[NoirVisage]

Huh... So I'm assuming you think Barry Bonds is clean?

The media is industry 1st, consumer 2nd. PS3 Skyrim, Diablo 3, Sim City(outside of a select few), DRM and use game issue, Spore, Wainwright, so many PR people who used to be the media and vise versa, and a whole host of other issues showing the disconnect between the consumers.

Then you have Ben Kuchera, Ben Parfitt, Rob Crossley, Arthur Gies, and many others always being pro indsutry over consumer.

The media that is supposed to be there for the consumer and they seem to, for the most part, be PR for the industry or preferring the industry over the consumer, which hey is fine, just don't complain when you have more layoffs. We have more then enough evidence of the games media to think they are not on the consumers side.

This matches up with my thoughts on the matter, they're quick to ask for out sympathy for their personal causes, but turn the blindest eye to pretty cut and dry consumer issues.

 

[plagiarize]

I do work in the industry. I'm not going to sit there and say I'm like GameSpot level of authority or anything because I'm not. But I've written freelance reviews for publications that have been listed on Metacritic, which many people believe is completely corrupt.

I have not been pressured by a publisher (or my editors on behalf of a publisher) to review a game in a particular way or give it a good score. Everyone I know in the industry, including a few freelancers who have written for large publications like GameSpot, IGN, etc. has had the same experience. It's laughable to suggest that corruption in the industry is so prevalent, because if it was, hard evidence of it would have come out by now. There are too many people working in this industry to keep it a secret.

Josh, please go back a couple of pages and see my response to you. It provides a good number of examples of the coverage of this, and goes into details on why I have serious problems with it.

I understand why you are being defensive, but people throwing out conspiracy theories are trying to explain what we are seeing. They aren't imagining the crazy reporting to back up their theories, they are forming their theories in response to something that doesn't really make sense.

Personally I don't think people are on the take, but there is clearly a much higher reliance on making sure the publisher still works with you when it comes to game media than when it comes to film, book or music journalism.

Try to keep your feelings as a 'game journalist' out of it. Yes, people are disparaging a field you have received money writing for, and yes, I'm sure you feel the need to defend the medium because of those good people, but when we are seeing reporting like this from the major sites, it indicates an issue with them.

Again, consider what is happening here. The websites that are supposed to be aimed at gamers, are telling us we should ignore the technical differences between the two up coming consoles. Huh?

You say they are just doing so in editorials. I provided at least one link where that wasn't the case. I provided two major examples of sites only posting an editorial on this downplaying it that didn't report it as news.

Why do you suppose so many major sites are rushing to make fun of those of us that want to play the best available version of game? Those of us that want to buy whichever system plays the games better?

You can write an editorial with your personal feelings on the matter without making out that those of us who care are basement dwelling nerds, more interested in winning points in a console war than playing games.

We're passionate about shit like this BECAUSE WE LIKE PLAYING GAMES. What good does it do the specialist sites to stop looking out for hardcore gamers? Instead of telling people why this shit is important, just going 'well most people are ignorant about this stuff, so if you aren't there must be something wrong with you.'

They're only driving people away.

 

[Wille517]

The problem with the game journalism industry is the same problem with US politics in the same way that there is a revolving door of lobbyists becoming political appointees and vise versa gaming journalist are constantly swapping between industry players to what passes as a reporter in this industry.

 

[borghe]

I think Sony should go on the offensive again right before launch.

$399.

Thats the biggest fucking thing going for them. $399 in peoples faces. Constantly.

Sony doesn't have to do squat. You literally can't preorder the system anywhere because it is globally sold out. That is free press you just can't buy. Despite what's being talked about in this thread, the general public just isn't buying it. Look at any current best seller list and you'll see ps4 marching toward the top. Sony is firing on all cylinders and for some reason the gaming "press" is taking it in as their mission to be some sort of counter balance for MS.

 

[weevles]

So is there a snackspiracy or what?

 

[unbias]

I'm not super-worried. Your trust might be at an all-time low, but our traffic is at an all-time high, thanks to our continual news-breaking and in-depth reporting on everything from next-gen console details to the fall of LucasArts. It's a bummer that gamers seem so angry at my field, but I'm okay with continuing to do my job as best as I can do it. If people don't want to trust me because of absurd articles like this, or because they believe in the "us vs. them" narrative, then that's a real shame. But I hope most readers who care about these issues are intelligent enough to pay attention to individual writers instead of believing that the "games press" is some sort of unified blob of opinion.

A couple reporters/writers an industry does not make. Most here are smart enough to know where to get their info, the aggravation comes from the idea that these media outlets have access to the ignorant or those who rely on these said outlets. You can keep doing your job(and do it well) but until there is an over all increased perception on the game media, this mindset will continue(just like in the financial and political news industry).

 

[purpletentacle]

But I hope most readers who care about these issues are intelligent enough to pay attention to individual writers instead of believing that the "games press" is some sort of unified blob of opinion.

this.

it's a shame people always look for conspiracies where none exist.

 

[Dahbomb]

The whole "us vs them" narrative really took off with the whole ME3 debacle as well as the DmC fiasco. The word entitled gamers was thrown around like candy by various game sites in order to "silence the haters".

The worst one was the writer calling DMC fans Cheetos eating basement dwelling virgin nerds (or something like that). The whole "us vs them" narrative wasn't concocted out of thin air, there is precedence for it.

 

[Helscream]

The real issue is that people do not like to be lied to and bullshitted with. Especially devout gamers. When you lie to a group of gamers expect maximum backlash. Even if the article is fanboyish/exaggerated there is a element of truth there. Microsoft is in damage control mode and they are using whatever utility they have to remedy the situation.

Hey does anyone remember the E3 press conference when MS announced that everyone at attendance would be receiving a free Xbox 360 slim?

And does anyone remember hearing of a single person in the press that refused that freebie because of the appearance of impropriety? Yeah neither do I.

Yea I remember that vividly.

 

[Glass Shark]

Huh... So I'm assuming you think Barry Bonds is clean?

I don't know anything about sports, sorry.

As for your other points, I think that's a valid criticism of games writing. I would not call myself "industry first" by any means. I like to think I am providing genuine and honest criticism of games to help people make buying choices. That being said, the industry as a whole is a concern of mine. And why wouldn't it be? I love video games. I want to continue playing them. I want them to continue being made. So it concerns me when I hear about rampant piracy rates. And where a lot of people who play games tend to make a snap judgement about something like DRM and see it as evil and restrictive, I try to be a little more thoughtful and insightful about it. I think questions like, "Are the publishers justified in making choices like this?"

I'm bummed out when game developers and publishers shut down because that means there are fewer places for talented people to make games that I might love. I'm sad when great games get pirated like crazy. I'm disappointed when indie gems get very little attention. Those are industry concerns, and I'm not going to lie and say I don't have them. I think many writers would agree. But through all that, I want to first serve the people who play the games. I can't worry about if I'm going to offend someone by giving their game a bad review or whatnot.

 

[plagiarize]

Sony doesn't have to do squat. You literally can't preorder the system anywhere because it is globally sold out. That is free press you just can't buy. Despite what's being talked about in this thread, the general public just isn't buying it. Look at any current best seller list and you'll see ps4 marching toward the top. Sony is firing on all cylinders and for some reason the gaming "press" is taking it in as their mission to be some sort of counter balance for MS.

I really think it's some fucked up attempt to be unbiased. But remaining neutral when it isn't appropriate to do so, doesn't serve your readers... we saw it with a lot of the responses to CRM (before and after the 180) and we're seeing it even more with the response to this.

The press think favoring one console over the other is bad reporting, and I know a lot of butt hurt fanboys certainly threw that accusation at Edge over their 'this is your next console' cover.

There are times where you can only be neutral by applying an unfair standard of reporting where you do not apply the same standards to both sides. This is one of those times.

 

[EmptySpace]

The fact that you believe in this inane "us vs. them" narrative where every reporter in gaming thinks and writes the same things says to me you don't actually pay attention to the world of games media, which makes me wonder why I should listen to what you have to say. Do you think every writer at Kotaku feels the same way about every subject? Do you think everyone at IGN has the exact same ethical guidelines? Do you really think there's such thing as "gaming press like me"? Give me a break.

If you want to keep participating in this truly epic circlejerk where people type on and on about the "Doritocracy" and how the games press must be on Microsoft's payroll, be my guest. Meanwhile, in the real world, where different reporters have different opinions and perspectives, I'll pay attention to the people who realize that articles like this are the very definition of bad journalism (the line "an attempt to appease the ad overlords, perhaps?" might tip you off there), and that there's nuance to this conversation that might actually require, believe it or not, critical thinking that goes beyond "games journalists bad, they all corrupt and bias!!!"

it is not about the whole payroll thing. it's about sites which, before even reporting the hard facts first, decided to do apologist articles alongside the facts like kotaku (and others) did. worse, there's not even mention of any differences outside of resolution. these are things that should come first - information, not opinions. informing the people first. the articles that sprung out after there were differences pointed out by this forum were all apologist articles instead of informative ones. all were reactionary articles to the differences this forum found out. people who never visit neogaf wouldn't even know there were differences and they're already getting "it's okay" articles.

the cases of gaming press peeps who move on to become part of these companies certainly don't help your case, as were the constant reporting about multiplatform differences the past generation. the fact that the ps3/360 multiplats ran at the same resolution yet they got so much comparisons vs. ps4/xbone multiplats which run at different resolutions get "it's not that different" is the icing on the cake.

 

[unbias]

The whole "us vs them" narrative really took off with the whole ME3 debacle as well as the DmC fiasco. The word entitled gamers was thrown around like candy by various game sites in order to "silence the haters".

The worst one was the writer calling DMC fanboys Cheetos eating basement dwelling virgin nerds (or something like that). The whole "us vs them" narrative wasn't concocted out of thin air, there is precedence for it.

I dunno, I think the blow-up of anti media really started gaining steam with Lauren Wainwright.

 

[laughingmood]

Which sites/articles are being called out in the article exactly? I read through it and only saw a link to a Kotaku article. Links anyone? I'd like to read up on it. Sorry, long thread.

 

[Dahbomb]

I dunno, I think the blow-up of anti media really started gaining steam with Lauren Wainwright.

I think that's the person who wrote the "Cheetos" line.

Let me check.

Nevermind it was someone else:

http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/15/dmc-devil-may-cry-fans-are-a-crying-shame/

 

[Kerned]

I'm not super-worried. Your trust might be at an all-time low, but our traffic is at an all-time high, thanks to our continual news-breaking and in-depth reporting on everything from next-gen console details to the fall of LucasArts. It's a bummer that gamers seem so angry at my field, but I'm okay with continuing to do my job as best as I can do it. If people don't want to trust me because of absurd articles like this, or because they believe in the "us vs. them" narrative, then that's a real shame. But I hope most readers who care about these issues are intelligent enough to pay attention to individual writers instead of believing that the "games press" is some sort of unified blob of opinion.

I don't think most people regard the games press is a unified blob. I think there are good writers out there, such as yourself, who do actual journalism. Unfortunately, for every Jason Schreier, there are a dozen other people whose ethics I do question and who I don't trust at all. I think that when most people (reasonable people anyway) are criticizing the gaming press, it's not meant to be an indictment of every games writer out there. The bad apples tend to spoil the bunch though, and that's why some people have a low opinion of your profession as a whole. You must realize to some extent why so many people feel that way.

 

[plagiarize]

I don't know anything about sports, sorry.

As for your other points, I think that's a valid criticism of games writing. I would not call myself "industry first" by any means. I like to think I am providing genuine and honest criticism of games to help people make buying choices. That being said, the industry as a whole is a concern of mine. And why wouldn't it be? I love video games. I want to continue playing them. I want them to continue being made. So it concerns me when I hear about rampant piracy rates. And where a lot of people who play games tend to make a snap judgement about something like DRM and see it as evil and restrictive, I try to be a little more thoughtful and insightful about it. I think questions like, "Are the publishers justified in making choices like this?"

I'm bummed out when game developers and publishers shut down because that means there are fewer places for talented people to make games that I might love. I'm sad when great games get pirated like crazy. I'm disappointed when indie gems get very little attention. Those are industry concerns, and I'm not going to lie and say I don't have them. I think many writers would agree. But through all that, I want to first serve the people who play the games. I can't worry about if I'm going to offend someone by giving their game a bad review or whatnot.

No one cares about what you do or don't do. Look at what the sites we are criticizing have done. Ask yourself if you would have said the same things. Stop only looking at where they concur with you. Ask yourself 'Would I have disparaged the people that care about this?' Ask yourself 'Would I have pulled out charts to tell people that 720p and 1080p are basically the same?'

Stop taking an attack on *other people* so personally. Are the 'payroll' accusations unfair? Sure. But that doesn't mean that people aren't looking for explanations for good reason. Because we are.

 

[borghe]

Personally I don't think people are on the take, but there is clearly a much higher reliance on making sure the publisher still works with you when it comes to game media than when it comes to film, book or music journalism.

It's kind of fucked up really. In those industries a few bad reviews can ruin a project and a few ruined projects can make a company's year hell.

In the gaming industry a bad review sees the publisher retaliate against the site in ad revenue and exclusives.

The problem comes down to that these sites have put such aajie emphasis in ad revenue and are in direct relationships for that revenue that the advertisers (who just happen to be the reviewed products coincidently) hold all of the power.

It's already been touched on a few times here. These sites need to stand up for some god damn journalistic integrity and if MS pulls ads, then step out if the game industry for new ads. If another publisher does the same thing then get another non-industry advertiser. Take the power away from the publishers as advertisers and then you don't have to worry about censoring your content.

 

[Dahbomb]

Holy shit I just looked up Lauren Wainwright... what a blow up!

http://www.p4rgaming.com/square-eni...en-wainwright-persona-to-promote-tomb-raider/

How the hell did I not know about this? lol

 

[Teletraan1]

I'm not super-worried. Your trust might be at an all-time low, but our traffic is at an all-time high, thanks to our continual news-breaking and in-depth reporting on everything from next-gen console details to the fall of LucasArts. It's a bummer that gamers seem so angry at my field, but I'm okay with continuing to do my job as best as I can do it. If people don't want to trust me because of absurd articles like this, or because they believe in the "us vs. them" narrative, then that's a real shame. But I hope most readers who care about these issues are intelligent enough to pay attention to individual writers instead of believing that the "games press" is some sort of unified blob of opinion.

For what its worth I think your site has been one of the better ones in this run up to the launch of these consoles and I do appreciate your continued posting here.

I have a definite list of who to trust and who not to trust based on their work, their twitter posting habits, etc. So I do apologize for lumping you in with others but i am not one to sit here and name off lists of people I trust and dont so I spoke in generalities but my point stands.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Holy shit I just looked up Lauren Wainwright... what a blow up!

http://www.p4rgaming.com/square-eni...en-wainwright-persona-to-promote-tomb-raider/

How the hell did I not know about this? lol

We had a giant thread about it here

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=497024

 

[ignata]

Holy shit I just looked up Lauren Wainwright... what a blow up!

http://www.p4rgaming.com/square-eni...en-wainwright-persona-to-promote-tomb-raider/

How the hell did I not know about this? lol

Wait...is this some sort of Onion-esque site? I remember that story but I guess I never heard the conclusion.

 

[old]

The fact that you believe in this inane "us vs. them" narrative where every reporter in gaming thinks and writes the same things says to me you don't actually pay attention to the world of games media, which makes me wonder why I should listen to what you have to say. Do you think every writer at Kotaku feels the same way about every subject? Do you think everyone at IGN has the exact same ethical guidelines? Do you really think there's such thing as "gaming press like me"? Give me a break.

If you want to keep participating in this truly epic circlejerk where people type on and on about the "Doritocracy" and how the games press must be on Microsoft's payroll, be my guest. Meanwhile, in the real world, where different reporters have different opinions and perspectives, I'll pay attention to the people who realize that articles like this are the very definition of bad journalism (the line "an attempt to appease the ad overlords, perhaps?" might tip you off there), and that there's nuance to this conversation that might actually require, believe it or not, critical thinking that goes beyond "games journalists bad, they all corrupt and bias!!!"

Exactly. This article is just speculating that others are paid without proof. Some want to agree with it because it feeds their narrative but it doesn't make it anymore true. If there's proof then there's proof. But where's the proof?

 

[AlexMogil]

Holy shit I just looked up Lauren Wainwright... what a blow up!

http://www.p4rgaming.com/square-eni...en-wainwright-persona-to-promote-tomb-raider/

How the hell did I not know about this? lol

Come on.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

So you must have owned a Master System over a NES and an Xbox over a ps2 ?

What part of not mutually exclusive do you not understand? PS2 was cheaper and had better games but not as powerful, also came out much earlier.

Part of the reason for all the fuss surrounding the PS4 is that it has the potential to be the perfect storm of a console. It is the cheaper and more powerful console of the two, and if history is anything to go by, and so far the announced titles and soon to be announced titles will confirm it will repeat, than it will also have a better selection of first party games. You are arguing it is about the games, I am saying we can have all 3! Games, power, and price.

 

[Glass Shark]

Josh, please go back a couple of pages and see my response to you. It provides a good number of examples of the coverage of this, and goes into details on why I have serious problems with it.

I understand why you are being defensive, but people throwing out conspiracy theories are trying to explain what we are seeing. They aren't imagining the crazy reporting to back up their theories, they are forming their theories in response to something that doesn't really make sense.

Personally I don't think people are on the take, but there is clearly a much higher reliance on making sure the publisher still works with you when it comes to game media than when it comes to film, book or music journalism.

Try to keep your feelings as a 'game journalist' out of it. Yes, people are disparaging a field you have received money writing for, and yes, I'm sure you feel the need to defend the medium because of those good people, but when we are seeing reporting like this from the major sites, it indicates an issue with them.

Again, consider what is happening here. The websites that are supposed to be aimed at gamers, are telling us we should ignore the technical differences between the two up coming consoles. Huh?

You say they are just doing so in editorials. I provided at least one link where that wasn't the case. I provided two major examples of sites only posting an editorial on this downplaying it that didn't report it as news.

Why do you suppose so many major sites are rushing to make fun of those of us that want to play the best available version of game? Those of us that want to buy whichever system plays the games better?

You can write an editorial with your personal feelings on the matter without making out that those of us who care are basement dwelling nerds, more interested in winning points in a console war than playing games.

We're passionate about shit like this BECAUSE WE LIKE PLAYING GAMES. What good does it do the specialist sites to stop looking out for hardcore gamers? Instead of telling people why this shit is important, just going 'well most people are ignorant about this stuff, so if you aren't there must be something wrong with you.'

They're only driving people away.

I really appreciate your thoughtful reply and the citations you provided earlier. It's much better than being called a "clown".

I like video games too. I really do. It would be crazy for me to spend my time playing and writing about them if I didn't.

I don't want to imply that the performance difference between the PS4 and XO is nonexistent or insignificant. As I stated earlier, I don't deny that all the evidence suggests that the PS4 is more powerful than the XO. I don't mean to suggest that anyone who cares about this is crazy or a nerd or whatever.

Someone made the point in this thread that the resolution is not the issue, it's what the resolution means. I think that's an astute point. However, that's not what most people are arguing about. They are counting pixels and reducing a complex issue to a comparison of two numbers. In the real world, that may or may not stand up. I say we approach this with cautious optimism rather than using the numbers game as another way to validate any decision we've already made.

The thing that is so frustrating is that what I consider to be a calm, reasonable attitude about this issue is getting berated. I have not played a PS4 or an XO, so I don't think I can make an accurate judgement for my particular gaming scenario. Many members of the gaming press feel the same way. And because of it, an entire industry is assumed to be corrupt.

And I'll state again for the record, I'm not trying to damage control the Xbox One or justify my purchase of one. Because I'm not buying one. I'm buying a PS4.

 

[plagiarize]

Step 1) turn forum console flame wars into an article
Step 2) get linked by forums
Step 3) profit

If you say you want better journalism in gaming yet you posted in support of this article, you're part of the problem.

Pretty much all of the articles we are calling out are guilty of steps 1 2 and 3. Badly written or not, I'm amazed it took a non specialist website to call out the suspicious uniformity of major gaming websites covering this by downplaying it.

Even if it is just some massive coincidence, even if it has nothing to do with the worryingly close ties between game critics and publishers PR departments, there should have been one of you calling out this shit. Frame it however you want. Someone should be looking out for the consumers. That could have been your site.

Why *aren't* you questioning why the reaction to this across the major sites is one of telling people not to care? Why are all the editorials lop sided?

I don't ask that to suggest foul play. When you sit down to write an editorial, or when you pick one to publish, if there is a large section of gaming that isn't been serviced, and every other major site is running an editorial saying the same thing... wouldn't you do well to run a counter editorial?

There's a base of readers here being completely ignored. You can keep fighting for the user base who want to hear that the Xbox One is peachy keen, or you could do something else.