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[Amir0x]

People on here treat Arthur Gies like some cartoon villain, it's pretty childish. It made me listen to his Rebel FM PS4 podcast, and he made a very sound case for his Killzone review and seemed genuinely bummed that the game didn't shape up...but he's obviously just some one-dimensional biased joke of a writer if you listen to people on here.

We can prove why nobody should listen to a fucking thing he says with a mountain of links. Nobody is blindly hating him. Deal with it. The longer you live in a fantasy bubble, the harder it is to come to reality.

 

[freenudemacusers]

I think dude was a clerk at wallmart who posted compulsively on Ars' forums before he got hired by the old pre-corporate buyout Ars Technica owners, not a journalist.

this is some old internet shit, but i'm pretty sure he was a gamestop manager or something.

 

[Iacobellis]

Kuchera, sucks to suck. We all remember your terrible article. Going to live on in infamy.



Well, to be fair, we do have the Xbox 360 2.

It is called the Playstation 4.

No, we have the PlayStation 2 2. Sony doesn't drop the ball towards the end of the generation. They are the epitome of longevity.

 

[mekes]

I'll leave this here.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/arti...and-sony-why-the-xbox-one-backlash-doesnt-mat

Never heard of the guy but now I have an opinion of him that will last a good while.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I'm glad that Sony is breaking records and selling out, but it I don't think it's a particularly big deal - the industry has grown since PS2 launched, right? It's like pointing out that Avatar had a bigger opening weekend than the original Star Wars.

For the last 13 years, the PS2 still had the fastest week release sell through record at about a million for the Japanese launch. The PS4 did it in one day. Nothing has really touched the PS2 in the home console market since.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I'm glad that Sony is breaking records and selling out, but it I don't think it's a particularly big deal - the industry has grown since PS2 launched, right? It's like pointing out that Avatar had a bigger opening weekend than the original Star Wars.

A lot of people around here, and on the internet in general have been swearing up and down that console gaming is dying and that this will be the last console generation, PC and tablets are crushing the console market, and that we'll see massive shrinkage in hardware sales, blah blah blah. This news is sort of vindication for all the people, who never bought that poorly researched narrative.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

That's a very good number but somehow I'm not surprised. Sony had an amazing communication and was rolling on good streak until launch. They need to keep the pace up.

I expect MS to do as much on launch date too. They have strong fan base and support.

In how many territories?? 1 million in 24 hours in North America..

 

[mujun]

There's some of the bitter tears I was talking about. This coming from the same guy that made the most DRM apologist article on the internet.

Is it just me or does Gies not understand the difference between what he seems to want (the PS4 to crash and burn) and what he understands is good for the industry (both consoles doing well)?

I don't really get this whole we need to ensure both do well, we should support all of these systems rahrah pompoms, "fair and balanced" blablabla bullshit comes from.

No. These products need to prove themselves to consumers as worthwhile value propositions that can compete in a crowded marketplace - that's what competition is about - and if they can't and fall flat on their faces (as one is right now), too f'ing bad.

Competition doesn't mean everyone gets an even slice of the market pie.

It's a piece of plastic and silicon. It doesn't need sympathy. It doesn't need cheers. It doesn't need emotional support. It needs to show why people should buy it, so they'll buy it.

I'm reasonably confident that Sony will treat gamers well even if they manage to attain some sort of monopoly.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Firstly, citation needed.

Secondly, Xbox revenues are a tiny part of Microsoft's business even with whatever Live brings in.

And finally, again, that they can afford to take a hit on hardware means nothing if they are unwilling to take a hit on hardware. And if they were willing to take a hit on hardware they wouldn't be launch at $499.

Nintendo can sell the Wii U for $99 today. They won't. Microsoft can sell the XB1 for $99 today. They won't.

Right now MS believes they offer good value at $499, they will soon find out how true that is. They have said preorders are very strong. If sales begin to sluggish behind that of the PS4 then you bet they will react quickly. Nintendo on the other hand may have a large cash reserve but they only make money off of their gaming division. It is why it is uncommon for them to selling hardware at a loss. Sony was losing hundreds of dollars on each PS3 sold when it came out. So no, Nintendo would never sell the Wii U for $99 and take a loss of hundreds of dollars on each unit.

I don't really get this whole we need to ensure both do well, we should support all of these systems rahrah pompoms, "fair and balanced" blablabla bullshit comes from.

No. These products need to prove themselves to consumers as worthwhile value propositions that can compete in a crowded marketplace - that's what competition is about - and if they can't and fall flat on their faces (as one is right now), too f'ing bad.

Competition doesn't mean everyone gets an even slice of the market pie.

It's a piece of plastic and silicon. It doesn't need sympathy. It doesn't need cheers. It doesn't need emotional support. It needs to show why people should buy it, so they'll buy it.

If competition didn't exist there would be no reason to drop the price of the hardware.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

For the last 13 years, the PS2 still had the fastest week release sell through record at about a million for the Japanese launch. The PS4 did it in one day. Nothing has really touched the PS2 in the home console market since.

I think the ps2 was cheaper at launch even with inflation factored in.

At any rate, the PS4 has a real chance to revive console gaming in Japan.

 

[Imperfected]

Competition doesn't mean everyone gets an even slice of the market pie.

The capitalist mentality has so permeated the public consciousness that it has begun to undermine the capitalist mentality. (That is, the idea that "competition is healthy and necessary" has been parroted so much that people have begun to advance the idea that competitors in a market must not be allowed to fail, even though a market without failure is by definition a market where there is no competition.)

We've become post-capitalism capitalists. Trans-capitalists, perhaps.

 

[Wynnebeck]

That's a very good number but somehow I'm not surprised. Sony had an amazing communication and was rolling on good streak until launch. They need to keep the pace up.

I expect MS to do as much on launch date too. They have strong fan base and support.

Xbone selling as much would be surprising, but not totally unexpected for reasons you stated. Sony knows they are coming into this next generation as the underdogs, so any inroads they make from this point out against the Xbone in America is a success. Xbone selling the same as the PS4 would be damaging enough. PS4 outselling Xbone would be worrisome.

 

[spwolf]

People on here treat Arthur Gies like some cartoon villain, it's pretty childish. It made me listen to his Rebel FM PS4 podcast, and he made a very sound case for his Killzone review and seemed genuinely bummed that the game didn't shape up...but he's obviously just some one-dimensional biased joke of a writer if you listen to people on here.

You obviously were not following last 9 months @ Arthur Gies and his posts here on XB1 and PS4 when they were revealed.... not to mention SimCity fiasco.

 

[DocGaf]

Apple & Google are already killing MS on OS marketshare.

Microsoft definitely can't afford for either company to get the heads up on them anymore.

What? MS has 90% of the market share in desktop OS.
http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=0

Mobile and tablet OS sure. Desktop OS and Office is Microsoft's bread and butter. Add to that Microsoft making money off Android OS sales and well........... Apple and Android aren't even close to killing MS in OS market share or profit.

MS isn't going to drop Xbox. With the amount of investments MS has made in things like controller design and NFL exclusivity MS is clearly playing the long game. Short term sales doesn't seem to be the focus of what their doing nor does hoping to kill off the PS4. They want to be at the center of home entertainment, whatever that happens to mean to people. For some it will be games, others watching TV and sports. With the One MS is attempting to bridge the gap between those things and become the one system used for all of those things. It's a broader focus than the PS4. I believe even if MS was willing to give the PS4 an advantage in one area, like gaming, their hope is that the One will be better at what it was designed to do and have greater appeal to more people.

Regardless of the Xbox One being a success, MS is going to still want to be a the center of home entertainment in the future. There is just too much money to be made for a company that can pull it off and that is clearly MS's goal. if this idea fails they will keep trying with something else.

 

[illmatic22]

Hi Ben Kuchera! Never change! I'm always up for a good laugh.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Xbone selling as much would be surprising, but not totally unexpected for reasons you stated. Sony knows they are coming into this next generation as the underdogs, so any inroads they make from this point out against the Xbone in America is a success. Xbone selling the same as the PS4 would be damaging enough. PS4 outselling Xbone would be worrisome.

At this point, if MS sells at all close to the PS4 in NA alone in 24 hours, that is a HUGE win for console gaming. That would be a damn good sign to support the idea that the market is stronger than ever.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

"After I bought one, my aunt's cancer went into remission. And she's been dead for 4 years!"

ok this one got to me lol

good job!

 

[Nightstick11]

A lot of people around here, and on the internet in general have been swearing up and down that console gaming is dying and that this will be the last console generation, PC and tablets are crushing the console market, and that we'll see massive shrinkage in hardware sales, blah blah blah. This news is sort of vindication for all the people, who never bought that poorly researched narrative.

While I am personally ecstatic at Sony's resurgence, you DO realize that Wii U cratering means Sony and Microsoft have to sell an extra 100 million consoles and 880 million games between the two of them, in addition to retaining Xbox 360+PS3 hardware And software numbers, JUST for the 8th generation to stay even, right?

 

[royalan]

I don't really get this whole we need to ensure both do well, we should support all of these systems rahrah pompoms, "fair and balanced" blablabla bullshit comes from.

No. These products need to prove themselves to consumers as worthwhile value propositions that can compete in a crowded marketplace - that's what competition is about - and if they can't and fall flat on their faces (as one is right now), too f'ing bad.

Competition doesn't mean everyone gets an even slice of the market pie.

It's a piece of plastic and silicon. It doesn't need sympathy. It doesn't need cheers. It doesn't need emotional support. It needs to show why people should buy it, so they'll buy it.

This one gets it.

 

[UnluckyKate]

In how many territories?? 1 million in 24 hours in North America..

Yeah I accounted this. I think they can match Sony on the 22nd maybe even more ? I don't know. They have more country but huge markets as the US and weaker press so it should balance. European number for Sony on the 29nd will be interesting.

Anyway, I don't see a huge difference by the end of the year. If one or the other as too lead, it shouldn't be before next year and again, MS always had great marketing dollars and have tons of fun games to come while I fear a bit for Sony on this side ; I'm an Infamous fan but it was never a system seller, Same for Driveclub and the Order is really far. I hope Sony can pull some legs over the first year but I don't worry for MS about that. We saw Titanfall. They got their buzz marketing machine ready to roll out.

Xbone selling as much would be surprising, but not totally unexpected for reasons you stated. Sony knows they are coming into this next generation as the underdogs, so any inroads they make from this point out against the Xbone in America is a success. Xbone selling the same as the PS4 would be damaging enough. PS4 outselling Xbone would be worrisome.

I can't agree more. Now we see that MS couldn't take any chance at letting Sony with a, let's say, 4 month head starts. Many power users, people on GAF and others will cry out that MS might have rushed the launch, the system, the os or the games, but in the end none of these will be an issue for the mass market who just wants to play pretty games and the next CoD. MS will have time to fix, improve and deliver on their promises and expand their OS, services and gaming offer in the following month.

I don't worry that much for MS one bit. I have to admit I do not like their strategies nor policies but they have been a really serious competitor and took Sony's share by being agressive and walking on Sony's mistakes and cockiness. I just worry for Sony because they are at the prime and all I could ever remember was Sony doing one good things for two stupids one so I'll be an endless pessimist about them even if I want to believe

 

[Louis Cyphre]

What? MS has 90% of the market share in desktop OS.
http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=0

Mobile and tablet OS sure. Desktop OS and Office is Microsoft's bread and butter. Add to that Microsoft making money off Android OS sales and well........... Apple and Android aren't even close to killing MS in OS market share or profit.

MS isn't going to drop Xbox. With the amount of investments MS has made in things like controller design and NFL exclusivity MS is clearly playing the long game. Short term sales doesn't seem to be the focus of what their doing nor does hoping to kill off the PS4. They want to be at the center of home entertainment, whatever that happens to mean to people. For some it will be games, others watching TV and sports. With the One MS is attempting to bridge the gap between those things and become the one system used for all of those things. It's a broader focus than the PS4. I believe even if MS was willing to give the PS4 an advantage in one area, like gaming, their hope is that the One will be better at what it was designed to do and have greater appeal to more people.

Regardless of the Xbox One being a success, MS is going to still want to be a the center of home entertainment in the future. There is just too much money to be made for a company that can pull it off and that is clearly MS's goal. if this idea fails they will keep trying with something else.

People have been singing this tune for years, it's as if they hope deep down that MS drops out of the console race.

 

[Quadraphonic]

Except no Wii U means many less platforms to make games for.

Less platforms = less dev time.
Less dev time = less money required to make games.

 

[Des0lar]

I'll leave this here.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/arti...and-sony-why-the-xbox-one-backlash-doesnt-mat

Haha that's a good one.
Shows how many journalists have complete lost their track and have no relation to gamers anymore.

 

[mr teaspoon]

For the last 13 years, the PS2 still had the fastest week release sell through record at about a million for the Japanese launch. The PS4 did it in one day. Nothing has really touched the PS2 in the home console market since.

Fair enough.

 

[whitehawk]

I think I know what you're after.

The long wait for Goku to arrive is finally over, and while everyone expected him to be strong, no one realized he had been training in over a hundred times Earth's gravity during the long delay en-route to Namek. After a jaw-dropping display of strength, completely devastating the most powerful opponents Earth's defenders have ever witnessed, he seems poised to fulfill the nigh-forgotten prophecy of the Legendary Super-Station.

I don't know why, but these posts are always more entertaining when the poster has no avatar.

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

Apple & Google are already killing MS on OS marketshare.

Microsoft definitely can't afford for either company to get the heads up on them anymore.

Not even close... Microsoft is dominating the Desktop OS market, and it doesn't seem like they'll be losing that any time soon.

 

[Mass Effect]

I think I know what you're after.

The long wait for Goku to arrive is finally over, and while everyone expected him to be strong, no one realized he had been training in over a hundred times Earth's gravity during the long delay en-route to Namek. After a jaw-dropping display of strength, completely devastating the most powerful opponents Earth's defenders have ever witnessed, he seems poised to fulfill the nigh-forgotten prophecy of the Legendary Super-Station.

DBZ comparisons never cease to amaze.

 

[Ramblin]

We can prove why nobody should listen to a fucking thing he says with a mountain of links. Nobody is blindly hating him. Deal with it. The longer you live in a fantasy bubble, the harder it is to come to reality.

Does this bubble have a web address?

 

[Coxy]

Hope this doesn't derail the thread too much, but I thought this was funny.

that informed opinion

 

[Card Boy]

that informed opinion

who one of those two tools wrote that? lol.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Yeah I accounted this. I think they can match Sony on the 22nd maybe even more ? I don't know. They have more country but huge markets as the US and weaker press so it should balance. European number for Sony on the 29nd will be interesting.

Anyway, I don't see a huge difference by the end of the year. If one or the other as too lead, it shouldn't be before next year and again, MS always had great marketing dollars and have tons of fun games to come while I fear a bit for Sony on this side ; I'm an Infamous fan but it was never a system seller, Same for Driveclub and the Order is really far. I hope Sony can pull some legs over the first year but I don't worry for MS about that. We saw Titanfall. They got their buzz marketing machine ready to roll out.

I think differently. MS is releasing in all countries on the 22nd while Sony just sold 1 million in NA in 24 hours which is their weakest territory. If it could sell that many units here, who isn't to say Sony might literally sell another 1 million at the EU launch? I'm putting my money on Sony possibly outselling MS worldwide by a good clip.

 

[Mass Effect]

Not even close... Microsoft is dominating the Desktop OS market, and it doesn't seem like they'll be losing that any time soon.

Right... but the desktop market is shrinking and is ever moving toward tablets, which MS is struggling with. Not to mention that Apple and Google are still encroaching on their desktop marketshare.

 

[Square2015]

Still sold out at the Sony Store, Best Buy, Target, and all GameStops I went into today. I was hoping to snag one and put it on eBay, but alas, I wasn't able. This blows away the PS3 launch (179,000 units on launch day, I think). Congrats Sony! Loving the console, just wish I had something to play aside from Resogun (which is absolute crack).

Oh wow, may I ask you where you got those PS3 figures? We need legit figures for PS3 and PSP...

 

[the chris]

Hope this doesn't derail the thread too much, but I thought this was funny.

Isn't Ben Kuchera the same idiot who responded to everyone who criticized him on twitter with "Deal with it?"

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Sony will outsell Microsoft world easily. The best informed NEOGAF estimates predict double the sales.

 

[Biker19]

Cancel the post.

 

[Red Blaster]

I think the ps2 was cheaper at launch even with inflation factored in.

At any rate, the PS4 has a real chance to revive console gaming in Japan.

i don't think console gaming can ever be "revived" in japan but the ps4 being successful early in america/eu and establishing itself as a de facto machine will help steer things in the right direction, the early 360 years were stocked with japanese niche titles even beyond the shit ms moneyhatted

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Who are these people?

Shills disguised as journalists.

 

[UnluckyKate]

I think differently. MS is releasing in all countries on the 22nd while Sony just sold 1 million in NA in 24 hours which is their weakest territory. If it could sell that many units here, who isn't to say Sony might literally sell another 1 million at the EU launch? I'm putting my money on Sony possibly outselling MS worldwide by a good clip.

On launch, the Eu number will be good for Sony. And very interesting to debate too. You make a good point though about the US, but I keep thinking that we lack recoil and data to compare all these console launch across history and regional markets.

Only thing being sure : MS never communicated about their pre orders numbers ? They just said it was x (5?) times more than the 360 ? Frankly, that doesn't mean anything as all these graph we see for the past days are telling us. If they didn't gave a straight number, it's either not good or lower than Sony's million before launch day (and they did sold one million in the US only on launch day)

yay, writting that I feel sony is in good shape for this end of year haha it just hard to picture them having a significant lead at launch. That is so not... PS3 era Sony haha

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

While I am personally ecstatic at Sony's resurgence, you DO realize that Wii U cratering means Sony and Microsoft have to sell an extra 100 million consoles and 880 million games between the two of them, in addition to retaining Xbox 360+PS3 hardware And software numbers, JUST for the 8th generation to stay even, right?

Yea, I don't think this next gen will peak at 260 million sales, but I wouldnt' chalk up a two data point coorelation as vindication of a contraction. I think we'll get to 200million, personally. And you have to remember, whatever Nintendo launches in 2017 counts as part of the gen 8. So while the WiiU was a complete failure, let's hope their next effort really pushes some serious units.

 

[boredandlazy]

Hope this doesn't derail the thread too much, but I thought this was funny.

Informed opinions? Like those blatantly on display during Polygon's 12 hour PS4 livestream?

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

i don't think console gaming can ever be "revived" in japan but the ps4 being successful early in america/eu and establishing itself as a de facto machine will help steer things in the right direction, the early 360 years were stocked with japanese niche titles even beyond the shit ms moneyhatted

I know demographics will shrink the overall market for gaming but I do think consoles can grab a bigger share of that pie than they did last gen. It will take both Sony and third parties best efforts to achieve that though.

 

[Gxgear]

that informed opinion

Please link the article, pretty please.

 

[Nightengale]

Only thing being sure : MS never communicated about their pre orders numbers ? They just said it was x (5?) times more than the 360 ?

2x more.

More than double.

Which was not a lot, mind.

 

[N.Domixis]

To all those who think the xbox will ever catch up to PS4, the dream is over. The global appeal and cheaper price is going to ensure ps4 stays and finishes at a distant first. Until microsoft tries to appeal to everyone and not just Americans, they will never surpass global ps4 sales.

 

[mujun]

To all those who think the xbox will ever catch up to PS4, the dream is over. The global appeal and cheaper price is going to ensure ps4 stays and finishes at a distant first. Until microsoft tries to appeal to everyone and not just Americans, they will never surpass global ps4 sales.

Yay?

 

[spwolf]

that informed opinion

and what about Secret Sauce?

 

[frizby]

People on here treat Arthur Gies like some cartoon villain, it's pretty childish. It made me listen to his Rebel FM PS4 podcast, and he made a very sound case for his Killzone review and seemed genuinely bummed that the game didn't shape up...but he's obviously just some one-dimensional biased joke of a writer if you listen to people on here.

Please. His Killzone review was an outlier.

Out of 25 reviews on metacritic, his is the lowest score, and it's a full 10 points below the next lowest score and a full 17 points below the next closest score from a gaming site. His score is also 25 points from the mean.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/killzone-shadow-fall/critic-reviews

Whether he's come to terms with it or not, he has an agenda, and he is most assuredly a joke of a writer.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

On launch, the Eu number will be good for Sony. And very interesting to debate too. You make a good point though about the US, but I keep thinking that we lack recoil and data to compare all these console launch across history and regional markets.

Only thing being sure : MS never communicated about their pre orders numbers ? They just said it was x (5?) times more than the 360 ? Frankly, that doesn't mean anything as all these graph we see for the past days are telling us. If they didn't gave a straight number, it's either not good or lower than Sony's million before launch day (and they did sold one million in the US only on launch day)

yay, writting that I feel sony is in good shape for this end of year haha it just hard to picture them having a significant lead at launch. That is so not... PS3 era Sony haha

Sounds like you don't want to believe that this can happen. Granted we don't know what the numbers are for Xbox but judging by preorders and retail leaks about stock. I don't see it coming close to what Sony just did in one territory in one day.

 

[Pixels]

So what do you guys think we'll get for PS+ in December?