MONETIZATION OF OUR TIME IS UNACCEPTABLE. GAMERS REGROUP !
Today, we just learned that Forza 5 (XBone) and GT6 (PS3) will both have microtransactions to skip their -laborious/glorious- grinding mechanics.
Of course, these are not the first games doing this (EA made quite a big push in this matter..and even Forza 4 already had those in...), but they are the 2 flagships of the 2 biggest actors of the videogame industry.
This dangerous trend is sending a very bad vibe about where we are going to : F2P model in games we payed full price.
Let me try to explain why this is so disgusting in the first place, especially with games where grinding is the very core of the mechanics. For practical reasons, I'll focus on Forza/GT examples. But the reasoning is the same for most of the games.
With games like GT or Forza (or others...), the currency is not actually Credits...it's our time. How much time are you ready to spend on our grinding mechanics before you give up and buy it from us? How much boredom will you endure? They don't even make the game harder... just longer. Monetizing is not buying new cars, it's buying your own time. How sick is that?
PD and Turn10 applied the free2play mechanics to full priced games... and if we do nothing about it, this is not gonna change. It's gonna get worse. It is already actually.
(Edit: Well... Looks like JimQuisition explains all this way better than me. A must see video.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7811-Fee-to-Pay)
And now Eurogamer made an article about it. They obviously share our concerns.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-23-whens-a-free-to-play-game-not-free-to-play
USgamer:
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/does-anybody-really-like-microtransactions
Another great input here:
Francis made a point too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGGfwPIykAo
Totalbiscuit now :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpx4R9SY98o
Please read/watch these before making your definitive opinion about wether it's a big issue or not. Some gamers didn't see the problem before reading this thread, and understand how disgusting monetization in 60€ games is...
My point, and the aim of this thread is to send a clear message to Sony, EA, MS and co...
We gamers don't accept these f2p models in games we payed.
DLC made AFTER the release? (like new cars, new tracks/maps expending the experience: that were produced AFTER the release) Ok. It's fair to pay because there obviously is a cost for devs.
Monetization of the game mechanics? Paying to avoid the broken/pervert grinding mechanics? Buying our time from them? Fuck no! These are unfair methods.
So what can we do?
First: be vocal about it...just like we were about the DRM stuff with the XBone... Let's send tweets to every executive/journalist in the place: same list as the DRM stuff. the hashtag for this will be #StopTheRipOff Use it wisely and generously.
second: let's send nice tweets to devs that respect their consumers and do DLC well (please feel free to propose names). Let's let them know we appreciate what they do. I think it's important to show that we are not putting everyone in the same boat.
Third (the hardset part unfortunately): Let's just not buy those games/DLC. If you find it too hard to resist to your GT/Forza addiction, at least buy them second hand. We fought for this right: let's use it now.
Here is a list of games that have some sort of monetization:
Upcoming/newly released.
Ryse: Son of Rome
Forza Motorsport 5
Gran Turismo 6
Crimson Dragon
Bravely Default: Flying Fairy
Grand Theft Auto V
FIFA
NBA 2k games
Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
Already released:
Assassin's Creed 3
Dead Space 3
Battlefield 3
Mass Effect 3
Diablo 3
Battlefield: Bad Company 2
Dragon's Dogma
Shin Megami Tensei IV
I am very conscious that this thread is messy and all... English is not my first language and I am a messy mind anyway. Many have explained the issue much better than me and I am sure my logic might not be as strong is I'd hope.
But I really feel that we are at a turning point of this industry: a point where we gamers can make a difference.
Let's do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSDhhZtRwFU
I think we should get inspiration from famousmortimer's action...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=568033&highlight=
...and send very clear -but very respectful- tweets to every big man in the industry.
(btw, follow us at http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=719935)
SONY:
Shuhei Yoshida (president of worldwide studios) @yosp (easily the highest level person on twitter and quite accessible)
John Koller (head of hardware marketing) @jpkoller (dude has like 150 followers - heh)
Guy Longworth (senior vice president PlayStation Brand Marketing) @luckylongworth
Scott Rohde (PlayStation Software Product Development Head for Sony Worldwide Studios America) @rohdescott
Adam Boyes (Publisher and developer relations at Sony) @amboyes
Shahid Kamal Ahmad (third party relations, europe) @shahidkamal
Nick Accordino (SCEA ISD A. Producer) @nikoro
Phil Rosenberg (SCEA - reports directly to Tretton, thanks GoFreak) @philrosenberg
MICROSOFT:
Phil Spencer, the head of Microsoft Studios https://twitter.com/XboxP3
Aaron Greenberg, chief of staff for IEB https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg
Phil Harrison, man in charge of MS Europe https://twitter.com/MrPhilHarrison
Mike Ybarra, manager of games developed by external studios published by MS https://twitter.com/XboxQwik
Yusuf Mehdi, marketing for Xbox https://twitter.com/yusuf_i_mehdi
Major Nelson https://twitter.com/majornelson
THIRD PARTIES
EA
@petermooreEA
Activision
@erichirshberg
Here's one of Activisions Board of Directors
https://twitter.com/luciangrainge
Christian Guillemot
Co-founder of Ubi Soft
https://twitter.com/Kristian66
PATRICK SÖDERLUND - EA Vice President: @PatrickSderlund
Social media teams... probably a waste of time.
Ubisoft
https://twitter.com/UbisoftUK
https://twitter.com/Ubisoft
EA
https://twitter.com/EASPORTSFIFA
https://twitter.com/EA
https://twitter.com/EASPORTS
https://twitter.com/EA_ActionMan // EA UK Marketing
https://twitter.com/EA_DICE
https://twitter.com/CriterionGames
Activision
https://twitter.com/Activision
https://twitter.com/OneOfSwords // Activision Community manager
https://twitter.com/beachheadstudio
OTHER MEDIA
Who else to contact in the mainstream media (PLEASE DO NOT SPAM):
New York Times
https://twitter.com/nickwingfield
https://twitter.com/bxchen
Wall Street Journal
https://twitter.com/iansherr
https://twitter.com/DrewFitzGerald
https://twitter.com/RolfeWinkler
https://twitter.com/adamnajberg
Edge
https://twitter.com/Neil_Long_
https://twitter.com/taylorcocke
Wired
https://twitter.com/kobunheat
CBS
https://twitter.com/chendangak
ABC
https://twitter.com/DanMilanoABC
https://twitter.com/JoannaStern
Time
https://twitter.com/mattpeckham
AP
https://twitter.com/liedtkesfc
I got all these informations from famousmortimer's topic. So credits to him and all those who helped him.
I suggest we wait to be numerous and organised before sending anything. Timing and number is the key.
EDIT: we decided to choose #StopTheRipOff as our hashtag for tweets we will send to execs. Please don't forget it when you send them your concerns.
Today, we just learned that Forza 5 (XBone) and GT6 (PS3) will both have microtransactions to skip their -laborious/glorious- grinding mechanics.
Of course, these are not the first games doing this (EA made quite a big push in this matter..and even Forza 4 already had those in...), but they are the 2 flagships of the 2 biggest actors of the videogame industry.
This dangerous trend is sending a very bad vibe about where we are going to : F2P model in games we payed full price.
Let me try to explain why this is so disgusting in the first place, especially with games where grinding is the very core of the mechanics. For practical reasons, I'll focus on Forza/GT examples. But the reasoning is the same for most of the games.
With games like GT or Forza (or others...), the currency is not actually Credits...it's our time. How much time are you ready to spend on our grinding mechanics before you give up and buy it from us? How much boredom will you endure? They don't even make the game harder... just longer. Monetizing is not buying new cars, it's buying your own time. How sick is that?
PD and Turn10 applied the free2play mechanics to full priced games... and if we do nothing about it, this is not gonna change. It's gonna get worse. It is already actually.
(Edit: Well... Looks like JimQuisition explains all this way better than me. A must see video.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7811-Fee-to-Pay)
And now Eurogamer made an article about it. They obviously share our concerns.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-23-whens-a-free-to-play-game-not-free-to-play
USgamer:
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/does-anybody-really-like-microtransactions
Another great input here:
I'm always amazed when someone claims that these kinds of microtransactions don't affect design or gameplay at all, and you can ignore them and have no less lovely an experience than you would have had if this predatory business model had never reared its ugly head.
Sure, right: the designers don't design for microtransactions at all. They don't build in any incentives to spend more money. They tweak progression just perfectly so that the rate at which you acquire new stuff is just perfect, and it wouldn't be any more fun to get stuff faster. They're totally optional, guys! BTW, would any of you gentleman like to buy one of the many fine bridges I have for sale?
There is no such thing as a game with microtransactions whose design is not tainted by them. There is no such thing. Every game with microtransactions builds in incentives to spend more money; every game with microtransactions is designed to ensure that the optimal experience is one in which the publisher gets more of your money. It's just that it's acceptable in games which are free up front because hey, they're free up front. But in a $60 retail game? Come on.
"Pay so that you don't have to play" microtransactions are particularly odious, because they reveal the underlying bad design of any game they're in. If I'm paying so that I don't have to play the game, what does that say about the minute to minute gameplay? It says it's not fun. It says it's a slog, something negative, something I endure rather than enjoy so that I can get the arbitrary rewards I have been conditioned to want. It says that the game has little to offer besides a skinner box, at least past a certain number of hours.
Can you imagine if Super Mario 3D World had microtransactions that allowed you to buy green stars for $1, so that you can get out of the chore of actually playing the levels? Would anyone buy that? Of course not, because playing the level to get the stars is the game, and it's extremely fun. If I'm paying for cars in a racing game because, man, I don't want to race for one more hour, what does that say? It says that the moment-to-moment gameplay is not fun, at least after a certain number of hours, and it says that the game was designed so that I would not acquire cars as fast as I want to, so that I would rather spend real money to get something than actually play the game I already paid $60 for.
Francis made a point too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGGfwPIykAo
Totalbiscuit now :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpx4R9SY98o
Please read/watch these before making your definitive opinion about wether it's a big issue or not. Some gamers didn't see the problem before reading this thread, and understand how disgusting monetization in 60€ games is...
My point, and the aim of this thread is to send a clear message to Sony, EA, MS and co...
We gamers don't accept these f2p models in games we payed.
DLC made AFTER the release? (like new cars, new tracks/maps expending the experience: that were produced AFTER the release) Ok. It's fair to pay because there obviously is a cost for devs.
Monetization of the game mechanics? Paying to avoid the broken/pervert grinding mechanics? Buying our time from them? Fuck no! These are unfair methods.
So what can we do?
First: be vocal about it...just like we were about the DRM stuff with the XBone... Let's send tweets to every executive/journalist in the place: same list as the DRM stuff. the hashtag for this will be #StopTheRipOff Use it wisely and generously.
second: let's send nice tweets to devs that respect their consumers and do DLC well (please feel free to propose names). Let's let them know we appreciate what they do. I think it's important to show that we are not putting everyone in the same boat.
Third (the hardset part unfortunately): Let's just not buy those games/DLC. If you find it too hard to resist to your GT/Forza addiction, at least buy them second hand. We fought for this right: let's use it now.
Here is a list of games that have some sort of monetization:
Upcoming/newly released.
Ryse: Son of Rome
Forza Motorsport 5
Gran Turismo 6
Crimson Dragon
Bravely Default: Flying Fairy
Grand Theft Auto V
FIFA
NBA 2k games
Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
Already released:
Assassin's Creed 3
Dead Space 3
Battlefield 3
Mass Effect 3
Diablo 3
Battlefield: Bad Company 2
Dragon's Dogma
Shin Megami Tensei IV
I am very conscious that this thread is messy and all... English is not my first language and I am a messy mind anyway. Many have explained the issue much better than me and I am sure my logic might not be as strong is I'd hope.
But I really feel that we are at a turning point of this industry: a point where we gamers can make a difference.
Let's do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSDhhZtRwFU
I think we should get inspiration from famousmortimer's action...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=568033&highlight=
...and send very clear -but very respectful- tweets to every big man in the industry.
(btw, follow us at http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=719935)
SONY:
Shuhei Yoshida (president of worldwide studios) @yosp (easily the highest level person on twitter and quite accessible)
John Koller (head of hardware marketing) @jpkoller (dude has like 150 followers - heh)
Guy Longworth (senior vice president PlayStation Brand Marketing) @luckylongworth
Scott Rohde (PlayStation Software Product Development Head for Sony Worldwide Studios America) @rohdescott
Adam Boyes (Publisher and developer relations at Sony) @amboyes
Shahid Kamal Ahmad (third party relations, europe) @shahidkamal
Nick Accordino (SCEA ISD A. Producer) @nikoro
Phil Rosenberg (SCEA - reports directly to Tretton, thanks GoFreak) @philrosenberg
MICROSOFT:
Phil Spencer, the head of Microsoft Studios https://twitter.com/XboxP3
Aaron Greenberg, chief of staff for IEB https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg
Phil Harrison, man in charge of MS Europe https://twitter.com/MrPhilHarrison
Mike Ybarra, manager of games developed by external studios published by MS https://twitter.com/XboxQwik
Yusuf Mehdi, marketing for Xbox https://twitter.com/yusuf_i_mehdi
Major Nelson https://twitter.com/majornelson
THIRD PARTIES
EA
@petermooreEA
Activision
@erichirshberg
Here's one of Activisions Board of Directors
https://twitter.com/luciangrainge
Christian Guillemot
Co-founder of Ubi Soft
https://twitter.com/Kristian66
PATRICK SÖDERLUND - EA Vice President: @PatrickSderlund
Social media teams... probably a waste of time.
Ubisoft
https://twitter.com/UbisoftUK
https://twitter.com/Ubisoft
EA
https://twitter.com/EASPORTSFIFA
https://twitter.com/EA
https://twitter.com/EASPORTS
https://twitter.com/EA_ActionMan // EA UK Marketing
https://twitter.com/EA_DICE
https://twitter.com/CriterionGames
Activision
https://twitter.com/Activision
https://twitter.com/OneOfSwords // Activision Community manager
https://twitter.com/beachheadstudio
OTHER MEDIA
Who else to contact in the mainstream media (PLEASE DO NOT SPAM):
New York Times
https://twitter.com/nickwingfield
https://twitter.com/bxchen
Wall Street Journal
https://twitter.com/iansherr
https://twitter.com/DrewFitzGerald
https://twitter.com/RolfeWinkler
https://twitter.com/adamnajberg
Edge
https://twitter.com/Neil_Long_
https://twitter.com/taylorcocke
Wired
https://twitter.com/kobunheat
CBS
https://twitter.com/chendangak
ABC
https://twitter.com/DanMilanoABC
https://twitter.com/JoannaStern
Time
https://twitter.com/mattpeckham
AP
https://twitter.com/liedtkesfc
I got all these informations from famousmortimer's topic. So credits to him and all those who helped him.
I suggest we wait to be numerous and organised before sending anything. Timing and number is the key.
EDIT: we decided to choose #StopTheRipOff as our hashtag for tweets we will send to execs. Please don't forget it when you send them your concerns.