• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Super Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS Thread 4: New Year, Old Arguments

B

BY2K

Membero Americo
What if Link's and Zelda's design are actually the design they'll use in Zelda Wii U and their giving us a hint?

fat chance
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Mit- said:
Although I think we're also going to see more things cut, such as the sheer amount of new music created, hundreds of stickers and trophies, and other fun content like the retro games and demos. We'll likely still get trophies but I just can't see this game being the treasure trove of content that Brawl was.
Click to expand...

Brawl was already cutting down on trophies though. Most trophies in Brawl were just recycled 3d models either from other parts of Brawl itself or from other games.

For comparison, Melee had many completely original models as trophies. The "classic" trophy of each character generally was an original model different from both source games and the Melee models themselves too - like a 3d model for OoT Link closer to his actual one in proportions, but much more detailed. Brawl only had trophies for them based on Brawl itself.

I don't know why they did that back in Melee, but Brawl cutting down on new 3d models used nowhere in the game itself was a good choice as far as using development resources goes.

I think some people severely underestimate the amount of content created for SSE in Brawl. Dozens of cut scenes, several DOZEN levels that were all larger than typical Smash stages, tons of original music tracks, and several boss battles.
Click to expand...

Most of that was outsourced and used generic designs, rather than actual unique locations though. They seemed to design SSE in a way that it mostly avoided needing to wait for the development of the main game and vice-versa, considering the lack of shared assets (like stages - although also note how none of the SSE areas seemed to be designed with specific items in mind).
 
T

TheMink

Member
Really really hope the guys behind Project M can find a similar exploit for hacking.
I basically just want Project M HD haha

I'm sure the official game will be fun though.
 
I

I'M FINISHED!

Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
Mit- said:
I'll go ahead and correct myself a bit. 77 out of 203 songs that were used for franchise stages (so, excluding original Smash songs for stages like Battlefield/Final Destination, and excluding Subspace Emissary) were the original versions of songs from their respective titles. The rest were new songs made for Brawl. (although I will say a large handful of the songs were from in-house composers and many of their songs were just compiled versions of songs from a franchise that didn't remix much of anything).

But I still don't know how anyone could hate on the remixes in Brawl. There are so many amazing songs. Some of them are the best renditions of the songs ever.
Click to expand...

I don't hate the remixes, there are some I dislike, some I feel neutral about, and some I enjoy. The music menus and CD collecting just happens to be something I enjoyed a lot more than any of the remixes.

Hopefully, Smash for can trump some of Melee's menu music, Brawl's menu music didn't even come close. Thankfully the music menu allowed me to turn Brawl's theme all the way down. The remix of Menu 2 is my favorite remix in the game.
 
S

Stoof

Member
image.php


So who's starting the petition for this to be an alt?

Just kidding, but I do hope for more alt costumes for characters than just a recolor. Male Fit Trainer gives me some hope but at the same time that could just be a one time thing.
 
M

Mit-

Member
NeonZ said:
Most of that was outsourced and used generic designs, rather than actual unique locations though. They seemed to design SSE in a way that it mostly avoided needing to wait for the development of the main game and vice-versa, considering the lack of shared assets (like stages - although also note how none of the SSE areas seemed to be designed with specific items in mind).
Click to expand...

Yeah they were pretty much all original. The only inspired stages I can remember are sky stuff related to Kid Icarus, which also featured enemies from Kid Icarus IIRC (the eye balls and whatnot?)

That's why I'm sad to see story mode go, though. If done right, it could've been much, much better than SSE. All they really needed to do was stick to the respective game worlds and include enemies and maybe even gameplay elements from those games, instead of creating a ton of new, generic content.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
I don't think SSE's content was generic. In an action game, a lot of that stuff would have been seen as cool.

It just wasn't particularly Smash Bros.
Click to expand...
It was "generic" in the sense that they designed the look of the environments to feel consistent with all of the characters, and as a result created environments that didn't have much, well, character. But the real issue with SSE was the combat felt too sticky, or at least that's the way I remember it -- the enemies were a bit spongy and didn't have the same satisfying pinball effect that makes Smash so appealing.

I did like the variety of enemies, however, even if they leaned a bit heavily toward the Kirby school of design (no surprises there, for obvious reasons).

Hours Left said:
I love the outline filter sooooooooooooooooooo much. It's too bad the aren't including it in the Wii U version.
Click to expand...
I like the outline effect, but I'm glad it's optional.
 
R

Riki

Member
The 3DS version has the advantage of them needing to make 100% new models and all for the game.
While the WiiU version uses upgraded Brawl models.
Which is why the 3DS version looks amazing.
 
D

DaBoss

Member
Fiktion said:
Let us take a moment to appreciate how good the 3DS version looks.
Click to expand...
It looks great. One thing I don't like is Toon Link's hair seems too dark. But the one thing I absolutely love is Link looks like his Brawl self, which is my favorite form of Adult Link (minus the washed out color).
 
M

Mit-

Member
Riki said:
The 3DS version has the advantage of them needing to make 100% new models and all for the game.
While the WiiU version uses upgraded Brawl models.
Which is why the 3DS version looks amazing.
Click to expand...

Is there any evidence for this line of thinking?

If anything, it's more likely that the 3DS models borrow more from Brawl than the Wii U models.

Even more likely, is that they probably develop HD models for the Wii U version first, and then downgrade them to be used in the 3DS version. The only real difference from the Wii U and 3DS models are textures and polycount.
 
S

SmithnCo

Member
Mit- said:
Is there any evidence for this line of thinking?

If anything, it's more likely that the 3DS models borrow more from Brawl than the Wii U models.

Even more likely, is that they probably develop HD models for the Wii U version first, and then downgrade them to be used in the 3DS version. The only real difference from the Wii U and 3DS models are textures and polycount.
Click to expand...

Yeah. The 3DS models are likely just modified WiiU models.

Plus, it's not like all the WiiU models are just taken from Brawl. Besides the fact that all of them are improved, some are drastically different like Samus and Marth.
 
K

kirby_fox

Banned
After thinking about it, I'm actually all for Zelda being alone. It makes way more sense for her character now than it did when she was in Melee and coming off Ocarina. Zelda is seen throughout her games alone. Sheik was only in one game. Impa would make way more sense these days, being in a lot more titles.

I also wonder if it's because of the 3DS. If they were initially having problems with dual characters, I wonder if there are problems with characters that switch form.

In which case, Pokemon Trainer is out too.
 
I

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
I really love those 3DS models. They look fantastic.

Mit- said:
Is there any evidence for this line of thinking?

If anything, it's more likely that the 3DS models borrow more from Brawl than the Wii U models.

Even more likely, is that they probably develop HD models for the Wii U version first, and then downgrade them to be used in the 3DS version. The only real difference from the Wii U and 3DS models are textures and polycount.
Click to expand...

Yeah, definitely. I'm pretty sure that they would downgrade in order to save times.
 
K

Kokonoe

Banned
IntelliHeath said:
Someone posted the comparison in other thread, and I would like to bring it to here.

http://i.imgur.com/MQbKpag.jpg/IMG][/QUOTE]

Ooo, listy.

Not gonna count 64. (Although Kirby [I]is[/I] pretty cute in 64.)

[B]Link[/B] Melee [B]>[/B] Brawl [B]>[/B] U
Prefer OoT Link, and the colors are very vivid and nice. Very green.

[B]Donkey Kong[/B] Melee [B]>[/B] Brawl [B]>[/B] U
I don't like either of Brawl's or U's models. Their faces are so weird, and although Donkey Kong in Melee has a flat texture for the fur, his face less weird looking. Also the flat fur looks better than poorly done 'realistic' fur.

[B]Pikachu[/B] Melee [B]>[/B] U [B]>[/B] Brawl
Pikachu looks abysmal in both U and Brawl, so this one easily goes to Melee which also has nice color. Pikachu in Brawl is all washed out and very misshapen, and Smash Bros. U the eyes look like stickers as does the emote, lacks proper face animations and the head lacks depth and Pikachu just looks like he has a ball for a head at times. The polygons on his body look weird too. Not as smooth as other characters.

[B]Zelda [/B] U [B]>[/B] Brawl [B]>[/B] Melee
Zelda in Melee looks okay from far away but the face is off, the eyes look like stickers. Fine but the models used in Brawl and U have better detail in the hair and have good enough colors for this one.

[B]Kirby[/B] Melee [B]>[/B] U [B]>[/B] Brawl
At first it'd seem obvious to pick U. Kirby, but no, I have some petpeeves with it. I do like the Kirby design but 1. the edges on his sphere body are too bright and his eyes are far too blurry and less clear compared to Melee. Nice color, but way too blurry. Brawl Kirby is washed out due to Brawl's palete which makes it last.

[B]Luigi[/B] Melee [B]>[/B] U [B]>[/B] Brawl
Melee Luigi has nice colors, very solid which even U Luigi lacks. Luigi in U is much brighter and slightly washed out, and Brawl Luigi is darker but washed out. The models are fine, but I like the colors on Melee more so that wins. I like my greens 'green'. U Luigi is much better overall than the Brawl model.

[B]Mario[/B] Melee [B]>[/B] U [B]>[/B] Brawl
Mario just straight up looks awesome in Melee. His red in Smash Bros. U and Brawl is washed out, way too washed out. I also like the blue coloring used in his overalls in Melee. I think the modeling is much better on U Mario compared to Brawl Mario, but the overall textures are kind of weird, at least a tad.

[B]Samus[/B] Melee [B]>[/B] U [B]>[/B] Brawl
Once again, Melee wins because of the coloring used is fantastic. Melee is bursting with color and I love it for it. Now if Samus in U had deeper colors, I'd prefer that one as the model does look pretty good. Brawl's model is a attempt to go for realism on lower hardware and doesn't really look all that great plus it has some weird shading on the stomach area.

[B]Marth[/B] Undecided
I'm usually a pretty decisive person but this one I can't really decide since they all look good. I think I'd prefer Smash Bros. U if it had Marth's hairstyle from Melee.

[B]Bowser [/B] Melee [B]>[/B] Brawl [B]>[/B] U
Love Bowser's model in Melee, the facial features, the eyes, the long hair with the red and orange mix along with the color on the horns and the skin just are great. I actually like Brawl's model too, very serious looking although it could use a bit more color. Smash Bros. U's Bowser has some weird eyes, the hair/eyebrows are kind of souless looking with that tint and there isn't any pizzazz. I find the realistic skin to be kind of odd too, not so much cause it's realistic I just think it looks weird the style they used. Throw in some color it looks really washed out.

[B]Peach[/B] Melee [B]>[/B] Brawl [B]>[/B] U
I don't care for the more frilled and ruffled dress in Brawl and I do appreciate they toned it down in U but it still is what it is. I prefer Peach's dress in Melee because it's simple and isn't all over the place. One thing I don't care for is the breast enhancement in Smash Bros. U, definitely not a fan of that. Melee Peach has a nice shade of Pink on her dress as does U Peach. Brawl Peach's hair is kind of washed out and the dress is in some regards too white in the areas where there is suppose to be color due to Brawl's coloring style.

[B]Fox[/B] Melee [B]>[/B] U [B]>[/B] Brawl
Command Fox sucks and I hate both the designs in Brawl and in U. Melee Fox has a nice color choice, not washed out compared to both Command Fox's, although the one in U has less washed out colors and some nice solids on the pants. I don't care for Command Fox's face as it looks like his snout is ice cream and he kind of looks like a beaver or something. Forehead way too tall and his ears far too small. His outfit has too many pockets and stuff now, I prefer the simplistic attire of Melee Fox. He only has what he needs.

[B]Pit[/B] Brawl [B]>[/B] U
Pit's eyes in U just kill the face for me, they look kind of bad to be quite honest. Brawl's face is nice and looks alive while the one in U looks like a doll's face.

[B]Olimar[/B] U [B]>[/B] Brawl
Olimar overall in color and model is just better than Brawl's in U.

[B]Sonic[/B] Brawl [B]>[/B] U
Sonic's model is pretty bad. For some reason the model in Brawl has more color in the eyes face and fur than in U. It's much more blue and the one in U is has a very very very light shade of purple or something. The eyes in U aren't typical Sonic eyes, not even to Lost World. There's suppose to be a full circle around his eyes and his mouth is extremely thick and looks like play-doh. He seems smaller as well and he looks very babyfaced which is weird to see Sonic as since he's suppose to be 'cool'. Don't like the Sonic model in U at all, although I do like the Brawl model despite the mouth being in the center.

[B]Toon Link[/B] Brawl [B]>[/B] U
I don't really care for either of these models, Brawl's is very washed out in color and looks like he left his clothes in the washer for too long and his hair is far too dark and realistic looking which doesn't make sense for "Toon" Link. On the other hand, I find U's model to have weird lips and kind of weird emotions at times. It does have much better colors, but the part that kills it for me is the play-doh like hair, it looks very weird.
Click to expand...
 
S

Starphoenix

Member
How anyone thinks Melee's design is better than most of the characters in SSBU is beyond me. The only models that haven't seemed to improve is Link and Fox. Not sure what happened to Link.
 
Q

qq more

Member
someone has an opinion different from mines! HOW FUCKING DARE THEY

Starphoenix said:
How anyone thinks Melee's design is better than most of the characters in SSBU is beyond me. The only models that haven't seemed to improve is Link and Fox. Not sure what happened to Link.
Click to expand...

I like Melee's Link, Pikachu, Fox, DK and Samus' Melee designs more than U's. Have a problem with that too? :>
 
S

SuperAngelo64

Banned
I've always liked the 'newer' Fox. He looks more like a Stylized Nintendo character and less like a deviantart furry.

It's like the Sonic design. Regardless of a design being more pleasing, if the vocal fanbase feels the games associated with the new design aren't as good as 'the old days!' they'll hate it.

When I read new Fox design hate, all I read is 'green eyes'.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
let's try:

Pikachu: Melee>U>Brawl, why you so round these days Pika
DK: Melee>U=Brawl, not even going to try to judge which of the latter two DKs are derpier
Kirby: ....pass
Link: Brawl>Melee>U (inb4 whoa what)
Mario: Melee>U>Brawl
Luigi: U>Melee>Brawl, only because this is Luigi's year and all (idk what I'm talking about)
Samus: U>Melee>Brawl
Fox: Melee>>>Brawl=U
Peach: U>Melee>Brawl
Bowser: pass
Marth: Brawl>U>Melee
Toon Link: U>Brawl
Zelda: Brawl>U>Melee, Melee Zelda is atrocious and something about the new one feels weird
Pit: U>Brawl
Olimar: U>Brawl, dem colors
Sonic: idgaf
 
Q

qq more

Member
SuperAngelo64 said:
I've always liked the 'newer' Fox. He looks more like a Stylized Nintendo character and less like a deviantart furry.

It's like the Sonic design. Regardless of a design being more pleasing, if the vocal fanbase feels the games associated with the new design aren't as good as 'the old days!' they'll hate it.

When I read new Fox design hate, all I read is 'green eyes'.
Click to expand...

I don't dislike Fox's new look because it's new, I just find his design weird looking. I've never grew up with the franchise and didn't play the Star Fox games until 2007 (and this was around the time Brawl was not too far from release). I find it rather kind of obnoxious to dismiss one's opinion and assert something that's probably not even true.
 
S

SmithnCo

Member
A lot of these look best on U for me, but a couple of note:

Sonic- Looks a lot better on U for me, the sidemouth helps a lot. Brawl Sonic looked super creepy without it and his accentuated brow in Brawl just looks odd.

Toon Link- Looks like they got the hair as close as they could short of just giving him toon shading. Matches the game and official art much more than the realistic Brawl hair. The solid color adds to the cartoon look of him.

Bowser- I never was a fan of his posture in Melee/Brawl, was a little disconnected from his main appearances. So I like what they've done with his U look.

Kirby- The shading on U adds a ton to him. His basic lambert shading in the other games looks really flat by comparison.

DK- Hope they go over his U fur texture by the time the game is out, doesn't look great up close but it looks pretty good from far away.

Pikachu- His melee version looks so weird now, looks like his face is squashed. Prefer the smoother U look.

Link- Joan Rivers.
 
S

SuperAngelo64

Banned
qq more said:
I find it rather kind of obnoxious to dismiss one's opinion and assert something that's probably not even true.
Click to expand...

I try.

I just think it's funny when people knock Brawl for the supposed hyper-realism and then get all gooey for a design that looks like a poor taxidermy job.
 
I

I'M FINISHED!

Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
Is Fox furry enough? Think about it.
 
Q

qq more

Member
i thought brawl was pretty ugly looking back

melee holds up better thanks to the colorfulness and some other design decisions, but yeah some characters DO look off like Zelda but id rather have that over the awful palette brawl has


SuperAngelo64 said:
I try.

I just think it's funny when people knock Brawl for the supposed hyper-realism and then get all gooey for a design that looks like a poor taxidermy job.
Click to expand...

You are rather irritating to discuss things with.
 
B

Benzychenz

Member
Link is pretty much the only one where the U model isn't the best imo.
And that's just because of the face, there's just something off with him.
 
I

I'M FINISHED!

Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
The only game in the series that had yucky graphics was the original.
 
L

Lord_Byron28

Member
kunonabi said:
I'd love this since sheik transformation is useless to me as a Zelda player and I like ss impa far more than sheik.
Click to expand...
On top of that Brawl really nerfed Zelda/Sheik users. They made Zelda & Sheik worse as individual characters and then discouraged transforming between the two in the midst of battle.
 
I

I'M FINISHED!

Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
qq more said:
To be fair it was from the N64 generation. I think it looks alright for what it is.
Click to expand...

It looks passable, it could have looked better. HAL's graphical work that generation on the N64 wasn't up to snuff. I remember reading that HAL struggled on the N64, it wasn't the easiest console to develop for, and HAL wasn't body slamming that tech at all.

Melee on the other hand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Super Mario Bros. Wonder | Review Thread
Analysis Review 2 3 4 5 6
257
22K
cireza replied
[UPDATE] 3DS and Wii U software online services to end on April 8 | Pokemon Bank and Poke Transporter to remain online
News
0
621
Thick Thighs Save Lives replied
Super Mario Bros Wonder. | Final Early Access Preview are Up
Community Analysis Hype 2
76
6K
gooner4life_uk replied
Digital Foundry: MultiVersus vs Super Smash Bros Ultimate - DF Tech Review - PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S
2
63
6K
93xfan replied
Sakurai says you should watch Smash Bros.’ final character reveal ‘even if you don’t play’
3 4 5 6 7
342
27K
TheInfamousKira replied
Top Bottom