Support NeoGAF

[funkystudent]

I wonder what happened to Duke Begins.

I got the impression that was what Gearbox was doing while Triptych got this out the door, though maybe it got canned after DNF, given they said they have two new IPs going and obviously Borderlands will continue.

I thought I heard that Duke Begins was a sort of back up plan between 2k and Gearbox just in case DNF completely died before things went south at 3DR. 2k had to know things where a mess and expected things to explode any day and probably still wanted to ship a Duke game and probably had the rights to do so.

Then with the way things worked out they decided to save DNF instead of making something new.


There is probably some juicy info on how the 3DR / Gearbox / 2K deal came together. I bet things where a lot messier then the story they sent when it was announced. Who knows if we will ever hear it all.

 

[PaulloDEC]

PLEASE NO.

Really? The Shadow Warrior reboot might not be a world-beater, but it's a thousand times better than the trainwreck that was Duke Nukem Forever. I'd absolutely welcome Flying Wild Hog getting a shot at the IP if Gearbox aren't doing anything with it.

 

[angular graphics]

I thought I heard that Duke Begins was a sort of back up plan between 2k and Gearbox just in case DNF completely died before things went south at 3DR. 2k had to know things where a mess and expected things to explode any day and probably still wanted to ship a Duke game and probably had the rights to do so.

Then with the way things worked out they decided to save DNF instead of making something new.


There is probably some juicy info on how the 3DR / Gearbox / 2K deal came together. I bet things where a lot messier then the story they sent when it was announced. Who knows if we will ever hear it all.

Probably. Back then Gearbox was like "We love Duke! We love 3D Realms!" and while Broussard didn't really comment he didn't say anything bad either..

Fast forward a couple of years after the game's release and 3D Realms is sueing Gearbox for unpaid royalties and Gearbox actually comments that the game was bad, it tarnished their reputation to be associated with it and the only party who benefitted from their deal was 3D Realms. http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=588341

LOL.

 

[Metal-Geo]

What is Broussard doing now?

I'm on mobile now so I haven't gone through everything, but Broussard is pretty active on Twitter. Is he doing indie game development now as well?

 

[BlackLagoon]

I thought I heard that Duke Begins was a sort of back up plan between 2k and Gearbox just in case DNF completely died before things went south at 3DR. 2k had to know things where a mess and expected things to explode any day and probably still wanted to ship a Duke game and probably had the rights to do so.

I dunno, as I recall, the guys who would become Triptych started working on salvaging the game almost immediately after 3D Realms collapsed. It was because they managed to convince Gearbox that they were on the path to creating a shippable game that the deal got made.

 

[inm8num2]

The game came a long way since I read about it here, that's for sure.

 

[ito007]

that was pretty hard-hitting. i remember all the hype this game was getting. crazy how things just fall apart like that

 

[Dug]

The game came a long way since I read about it here, that's for sure.

Interesting website about what happened between DNF being announced and released:

http://duke.a-13.net/

 

[angular graphics]

I'm on mobile now so I haven't gone through everything, but Broussard is pretty active on Twitter. Is he doing indie game development now as well?

Broussard / 3DRealms hire small companies to port, adapt and re-release their old games to new platforms (Steam, iOS) and license their old IPs (Rise of the Triad, Shadow Warrior) to indie devs to reboot them.

They have no staff to develop anything on their own, and as far as I know no interest (or money...) to hire others to develop new ideas.

Acting as producers, is nothing new for them. At a time they produced and were involved creatively with games such as Max Payne and Prey (...the best games they have "made" since Duke Nukem 3D) but nowadays we only hear of them licensing their IPs to others, and nothing about participating in the creative process.

 

[Sons Of Anarchy]

Good article

I loved me some duke

"Hail to the king baby"

 

[Enosh]

I guess we cab chalk this up as consoles destroying Duke Nukem. Would have been better off as a PC exclusive

yes obviously going consoles is what destroyed DNF...

hint: they cite the decision to go consoles with prey sales, a 2006 game
development on dnf began in 1997
I'm quite sure the game was pretty fucking fucked already at that point, consoles or no consoles

 

[Uiki]

Really? The Shadow Warrior reboot might not be a world-beater, but it's a thousand times better than the trainwreck that was Duke Nukem Forever. I'd absolutely welcome Flying Wild Hog getting a shot at the IP if Gearbox aren't doing anything with it.

Shadow warrior was duke's weird old asian brother. Gameplay wise and level design wise (which was fucking awesome).

Shadow warrior reboot has nothing in common with the original: it's basically a corridor + arenas and the base gameplay is something completely different (magic? katana?).

Also, hard reset.

So no, keep them million miles away from duke..

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Why does anyone want anything done with this IP? It's fucking gross and tasteless. It always has been, but it was fun in the 90s as a pre-teen/young teen to hear dumb lines with swears and see pixelated boobs.

 

[Big_Al]

Shadow warrior was duke's weird old asian brother. Gameplay wise and level design wise (which was fucking awesome).

Shadow warrior reboot has nothing in common with the original: it's basically a corridor + arenas and the base gameplay is something completely different (magic? katana?).

Also, hard reset.

So no, keep them million miles away from duke..

Well to be fair even if you weren't keen on Wild Flying Hog developing it they couldn't get any worse than Duke Nukem Forever. (even though I didn't think it was THAT bad)

I'm hoping that Duke Nukem Reloaded by Interceptor Entertainment someday gets a release.

 

[Ciastek3214]

This was better than what we got.

 

[Uiki]

Well to be fair even if you weren't keen on Wild Flying Hog developing it they couldn't get any worse than Duke Nuke Forever.

I'm hoping that Duke Nukem Reloaded by Interceptor Entertainment someday gets a release.

Well, worse than dnf is REALLY hard.

Just make the dn3d remake, RANDY!

 

[Uiki]

It is super fun and does what a reboot should. It is different yet ckearly wouldn't exist without the original. We can play Build games in new engines if we want. The ROTT remake is also super fun but not particularly necessary.

Their take on Duke would probably be far from 3D. It would also be fun and retain the campy charm. DNF was just embarrassing.

To be crystal clear, no one is defending dnf. And I'm not saying that shadow warrior is bad or good. It has nothing to do with shadow warrior as dnf has nothing to do with duke.

I don't want another "duke nukem" just for the sake of calling it like that. I want a proper sequel. And fwh aren't the team for the job.

ROTT is good. Well.. except for that god awful engine.

(sorry for double post, my phone is going insane).

 

[antitrop]

Interesting read. I still have the PC Gamer issues in my closet with Duke on the cover. Still remember seeing the trailer of the Quake 2 engine version of the game (with the Wild West look and all).

I bought Duke Nukem Forever day 1 on Steam and gave up on it after 3 hours of pure torture as I tried to justify the $60 that I had just spent.

At least we'll always have the Duke Nukem Theme.

 

[ZealousD]

popular fps devs going multiplat has killed off strafejumping, carrying 10 weapons, alt fire, pickups, fast movement, recoil, non hitscan weapons and affected the level design ...

Most of those things have absolutely nothing to do with consoles. They have to do with developers thinking that the console audience absolutely has to have their shooters built a certain way.

DNF didn't need to have 2 guns and regenerating health just because it was on consoles. They could have left all that stuff completely intact. It's stupid to blame consoles for decisions made by developers.

 

[Card Boy]

Why does anyone want anything done with this IP? It's fucking gross and tasteless. It always has been, but it was fun in the 90s as a pre-teen/young teen to hear dumb lines with swears and see pixelated boobs.

People like you are the reason society is down the policially correct gutter. It's people like you we that we will never see a another Eddie Murphy Raw or Delirious.

Did you just remotely equate Duke Nukem Forever to Eddie Murphy

No you just did though.

 

[antitrop]

People like you are the reason society is down the policially correct gutter. It's people like you we that we will never see a another Eddie Murphy Raw or Delirious.

Nah, Duke Nukem Forever was offensively stupid. Has nothing to do with political correctness. It was just dumb. It wasn't funny, it wasn't witty, or clever, or well-written, it was just fucking dumb in every way.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

People like you are the reason society is down the policially correct gutter. It's people like you we that we will never see a another Eddie Murphy Raw or Delirious.

Did you just remotely equate Duke Nukem Forever to Eddie Murphy

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Did you just remotely equate Duke Nukem Forever to Eddie Murphy

They'll be standing around the water cooler like "hey I'm Mr Nukem, I'll rip your cock off with my ass".

 

[JasonUresti]

After flushing all their money down the toilet, I hope Miller and Broussard can make enough money repackaging 20 year old games to make a living. Certainly no company in the video game industry or any industry is ever going to hire them again.

 

[MrCunningham]

Broussard / 3DRealms hire small companies to port, adapt and re-release their old games to new platforms (Steam, iOS) and license their old IPs (Rise of the Triad, Shadow Warrior) to indie devs to reboot them.

They have no staff to develop anything on their own, and as far as I know no interest (or money...) to hire others to develop new ideas.

Acting as producers, is nothing new for them. At a time they produced and were involved creatively with games such as Max Payne and Prey (...the best games they have "made" since Duke Nukem 3D) but nowadays we only hear of them licensing their IPs to others, and nothing about participating in the creative process.

Yup, they have been reduced to just a licenser of their old properties now. Scott MIller run's his own little company called Radar Group, which is suppose to conceptualize game ideas and outsource them to other developers. Though they haven't really shown anything beyond a few vague concepts for a game called Earth no More. And some of the old Apogee licenses are being handled by an offshoot company called Apogee Software, LLC, which released the new Rise of the Triad reboot under that brand.

Whats the last game that was in develeopement hell between different company's and turned out ok?

Genuinely curious as i cant think of one..
I guess south park comes to mind as it looks pretty good, but that wasn't even in develeopement hell for very long compared to most.

Hmm, I don't think shifts between publishers is quite the same as a shift between a developer for a game. Duke Nukem Forever started out as a game that was going to be published by GT Interactive, who was later bought out by Take 2.

The original Prey (which was also a 3D Realms game) went through multiple reboots and teams before they outsourced development to Human Head software, as well.

And someone make a Commander Keen game for Vita!

Commander Keen is owned by iD Software. Actually, the rights for a lot of the old games that were published by Apogee were retained by the original developers. It was an Apogee policy back then to let the game studios they worked with keep the rights for their own games. Such a novel thing it was.

 

[KareBear]

Broussard / 3DRealms hire small companies to port, adapt and re-release their old games to new platforms (Steam, iOS) and license their old IPs (Rise of the Triad, Shadow Warrior) to indie devs to reboot them.

They have no staff to develop anything on their own, and as far as I know no interest (or money...) to hire others to develop new ideas.

Acting as producers, is nothing new for them. At a time they produced and were involved creatively with games such as Max Payne and Prey (...the best games they have "made" since Duke Nukem 3D) but nowadays we only hear of them licensing their IPs to others, and nothing about participating in the creative process.

They were talking about launching a crowdfunding campaign for Earth No More a little over a year ago but nothing has been heard since.

 

[MaximoffZero]

Right now I am far away from the business and hope to keep it this way. I hope that people who are so obsessed with video games both making and playing them in general could just leave them for a moment and think. You are not winning anything and basically just wasting your time achieving nothing instead of doing some meaningful things in the real world. It is a pity I understood this so late in my life. Cheers and have a happy weekend!

I completely understand why he would want to get out of the industry after his experience, but his implying that all gamers and developers should just stop altogether because games are a waste of time really rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Karsticles]

Great read, though insulting gaming in general was unkind.

 

[eot]

All that stuff sounds like a reasonable explanation for why the game plays and looks like shit. It doesn't explain away its horrible creative direction.

 

[blast processed]

It's a shame, because I still want to play the 2001 game from this E3 trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDlB2P1leRM

 

[Queen of Hunting]

well joe who was community manager for 3d realms for 20 years make it seem like gearbox did change duke when they got it.

I saw all the old versions of the games, and the one being worked on in the latter days of 3D Realms was good. It was right, it was a fun game, it looked good, it played well, and dammit, was the version that we should have released (on our own, that’s not a slight against Triptych or Gearbox, I was talking about 3DR on it’s own). 3DR always had internal projections for release dates. Had 3DR survived (in it’s old form) the game’s internal release date was April 15, 2010.

 

[vivftp]

Commander Keen is owned by iD Software. Actually, the rights for a lot of the old games that were published by Apogee were retained by the original developers. It was an Apogee policy back then to let the game studios they worked with keep the rights for their own games. Such a novel thing it was.

Damnit. Ok, someone get iD to put Keen on Vita!

lol

 

[eot]

Gearbox put their name on this shit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUUNxniYm5o
Development hell doesn't explain that.

 

[cascardian]

I agree with everyone that this chapter of history deserves the full documentary treatment. What an absolute trainwreck. It's incredible how many people's lives it affected negatively and the amount of work that went to waste is flat-out insane. All that and in the meantime a much better Duke Nukem successor was released. It's called Bulletstorm--which, sadly, also deserved much better.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Gearbox put their name on this shit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUUNxniYm5o
Development hell doesn't explain that.

Those are some Tigole Bitties. Gearbox aren't exactly a high class establishment.

 

[MrCunningham]

All that stuff sounds like a reasonable explanation for why the game plays and looks like shit. It doesn't explain away its horrible creative direction.

The old DNF 2001 trailer looked better than anything we got with this game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDlB2P1leRM I was totally hyped for the game when I originally saw that trailer. The Quake II engine build of the game from 1998 was kind of interesting too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR6qFFEkALg



Though, the best thing to have come out of Duke Nukem Forever, is the Duke Nukem Forever 2013 mod for Duke Nukem 3D:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/duke-nukem-forever

It's really quite impressive, technically for a Duke 3D expansion. I think it might also be available in the Steam Workshop for the Megaton Edition.

 

[KareBear]

Its worth noting that Interceptors (devs of the recent ROTT reboot) next game "Project Ascender" is all but confirmied to be a Duke game.They posted some photos of their studio on facebook (since removed) and you could see Duke concept art on the walls.

http://i.imgur.com/7tU0K8y.jpg

They've also hired Dukes voice actor John St John and have posted stuff about their next game having bicep retainers.

 

[plagiarize]

I have finished this shitty game.

Their patronizing idea of what a console game should be is entirely their problem. Prey didn't have regenerating health, or silly weapon limits, etc etc.

I see nothing in the final product to suggest to me that they could have made a better game on PC. Nor do I see anything in this disclosure. At no point does the developer seem to think there was a good environment for making a quality game.

PC or otherwise.

 

[SparkTR]

Its worth noting that Interceptors(devs of the recent ROTT reboot)next game "Project Ascender" is all but confirmied to be a Duke game.They posted some photos of their studio on facebook (since removed) and you could see Duke concept art on the walls.

http://i.imgur.com/7tU0K8y.jpg

They've also hired Dukes voice actor John St John and have posted stuff about their next game having bicep retainers.

I thought they were doing a new Descent? I'm interested regardless, RoTT would have been a great learning experience.

 

[PaulloDEC]

Why does anyone want anything done with this IP? It's fucking gross and tasteless.

Being gross and tasteless doesn't mean you can't be funny, clever and witty. See South Park, the show that pretty much wrote the book on the matter.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with Duke Nukem. Leave out the nasty sexist stuff and play him for laughs like the dumb 1980's action hero that he is, and you're golden.

It always has been, but it was fun in the 90s as a pre-teen/young teen to hear dumb lines with swears and see pixelated boobs.

Actually, it hasn't. Back in the distant past (1991 - 1993) there were some fantastic PC platformers starring Duke. Seemingly most people either don't remember a time before Duke 3D or just prefer not to acknowledge it.

 

[Mechazawa]

They mention the 360's disc being an issue. What the fuck kind of game around Prey's release were they making that they couldn't fit in a 360 disc?

 

[Tesseract]

i kinda really liked it.

 

[Funky Functionality]

I hope that people who are so obsessed with video games both making and playing them in general could just leave them for a moment and think. You are not winning anything and basically just wasting your time achieving nothing instead of doing some meaningful things in the real world. It is a pity I understood this so late in my life.

I'd be bitter if I wasted years on DNF, but this statement is incomprehensible. Suddenly I feel better that he's gone.

 

[Queen of Hunting]

Its worth noting that Interceptors (devs of the recent ROTT reboot) next game "Project Ascender" is all but confirmied to be a Duke game.They posted some photos of their studio on facebook (since removed) and you could see Duke concept art on the walls.

http://i.imgur.com/7tU0K8y.jpg

They've also hired Dukes voice actor John St John and have posted stuff about their next game having bicep retainers.

the game has a female lead too

JOIN THE INTERCEPTOR FAMILY!

We are looking for a strong female Voice Actress to play the role of one of the Lead Characters in our upcoming Next-Gen Title.
American Accent Required.

The character is a strong female leader. The voice has to show determination, and strong leadership qualities, yet remain feminine and vulnerable beneath the hard exterior.

Inspiration:
- Sigourney Weaver (Alien Trilogy)
- Michelle Rodriguez (Machete)
- Linda Hamilton (Terminator)

If you are interested, please record an Audio Sample, using the following line:

"The last intel we received said they were swarmed by invasion forces -- that was before things went dark almost an hour ago. Comm loss suggests things aren‘t going well. This one‘s not going to be so easy, but you‘re not the one we‘re worried about.“

 

[shuri]

Duke Forever was supposed to come out for the NINTENDO 64 back then. I remember an interview considering maybe a possible dreamcast port..

 

[jim-jam bongs]

They mention the 360's disc being an issue. What the fuck kind of game around Prey's release were they making that they couldn't fit in a 360 disc?

Different issues, too many textures for the disc size across all levels cumulatively and levels too large individually for the 360 to cope with on 512mb of RAM.

 

[KareBear]

the game has a female lead too

Thats most likely for Bombshell who was set to appear in older versions of DNF.

http://www.duke4.net/images/conceptart/1.jpg

 

[Appollowexx]

That was a really depressing but fascinating read. It would be great to get a true post-mortem of the game.

Playing it on PC it had a few decent ideas but was overall a pretty horrible experience, one I never bothered to finish.

Feel really bad for all involved up to the point when new talent was brought in.

 

[s_mirage]

Why does anyone want anything done with this IP? It's fucking gross and tasteless. It always has been, but it was fun in the 90s as a pre-teen/young teen to hear dumb lines with swears and see pixelated boobs.

Because some people like tasteless, some people like being grossed out, and some people like their entertainment to more than bland, inoffensive, and homogenized. More than that, Duke Nukem 3D was an awesome game with cool multiplayer and the kind of challenging single player level design that the current crop of corridor shooters could only dream of having. It's dated now but the game was innovative, fun, and deserves a sequel that lives up to it.

 

[mrpeabody]

Guys, this game was announced in 1997 and switched engines multiple times. Consoles did not kill this game. George Broussard killed it with his incompetent management.

He spent twelve years developing DNF and in the end even that wasn't enough. If Gearbox hadn't taken over and released it, it would still be vaporware.