Support NeoGAF

[Mineshaft_Gap]

I for one believe that the shift from Gothic, Lovrcraftian horror to the more traditional Sci Fi space shooter was a great disservice to the fledgling franchise. Unfortunately, the vibe of the original stays with the original and the three sequels that spawned all follow the (imo) rather generic Sci Fi formula and effectively replace and overshadow the original Quake's brooding horror identity. Quake 2, 3, and (shudder) 4... Are more Quake than Quake. Mind you, I'm not saying Q2 and Q3 are bad games. They've just never felt like Quake to me.

Is there any good documentary or magazine interview that discusses the complete change in identity given to this series from the second game onward?

Am I the only one who feels like the original Quake never got a real sequel?

 

[Synth]

Nearly every Quake fan of any Quake era feels this way.

 

[angelic]

100% correct. They made a new game then called it Quake 2 at the end.

The campaign doesn't hold up like Doom does though.

 

[Slick Butter]

I do wish they'd expanded on the Lovecraftian mashup aesthetic that the first game had in the sequels, and I was hoping initially that QUAKE Champions was gonna be a modern take on the Quake 1 look with Quake 3 multiplayer gameplay. I guess not, though.

 

[Horp]

I think Quake was never meant to be a lore based, sequential, coherent set of games. I believe (have no proof whatsoever) that Quake was a brand where Id tried a bunch of different ideas and concepts, and also pushed new tech.

 

[HeatBoost]

did you just watch that ahoy video op?

be honest

 

[Poimandres]

I wonder how Quake would have looked if they managed to realise their original vision? It would have been a very different game.

That said, I would love a proper Quake 1 sequel. I thought the setting was good, but the enemy design in particular was way above Quake 2.

 

[reptilescorpio]

iD changed a hell of a lot after Quake 1.

Go read Masters of Doom. Fantastic book you will really love.

 

[Nishastra]

Am I the only one who feels like the original Quake never got a real sequel?

Of course not, because it didn't

Quake 2 has nothing in common with Quake 1 aside from being a FPS made by id.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Nearly every Quake fan of any Quake era feels this way.

This is pretty apt. Though, Quake 4 is very much in the same vein as 2, at least as far as the campaign and setting

 

[jetjevons]

I enjoyed Quake 2 for what it was but still the promised "spooge" did not emit from me.

LOVE a real Quake sequel that looks something like Agony.

 

[old manatee]

Playing Quake 1 on a fast PC when it came out felt like playing a game from the future. Quake 2 had none of the atmosphere and style, and I never thought the levels were any good. Quake 3 was awesome but it was just multi so it doesn't really count. Quake 4 was even worser than Quake 2.

Whatever. Now that Doom was received so well I'm hoping we get the spiritual sequel to Quake 1 that I deserve.

 

[jonjonaug]

Playing Quake 1 on a fast PC when it came out felt like playing a game from the future. Quake 2 had none of the atmosphere and style, and I never thought the levels were any good. Quake 3 was awesome but it was just multi so it doesn't really count. Quake 4 was even worser than Quake 2.

Whatever. Now that Doom was received so well I'm hoping we get the spiritual sequel to Quake 1 that I deserve.

We're more likely to get Doom 2016 part 2 I think.

 

[theRizzle]

At least Q2 gave us the railgun

 

[eot]

I didn't, Quake 2 was a regression in every way except the introduction of the rail gun. Quake 3 is one of the best games ever made, but it mostly stands on its own just like Quake.

The first game is so unique though, there's nothing else like it.

 

[Lafazar]

I think Quake was never meant to be a lore based, sequential, coherent set of games. I believe (have no proof whatsoever) that Quake was a brand where Id tried a bunch of different ideas and concepts, and also pushed new tech.

It's no secret that the development of Quake was extremely troubled, because their way too ambitious initial plan (completely new type of game, extensive melee combat, a main character that gets more and more damaged and crippled over time, deep RPG elements, etc.) didn't work out and so in the end they were basically forced to cobble together what they had and create a basic FPS, because they were running out of time (and willpower).

Basically it's amazing how compelling this complete trainwreck of a game turned out to be. I love the weird juxtaposition of those disparate elements.

 

[Labombadog]

I was heavy into Quake back in the late 90's and was so engrossed in the multiplayer and single player. When I played the sequel it felt like a completely different game. Felt more sci fi and was left disappointed. So yes I totally agree.

 

[EVIL]

It's no secret that the development of Quake was extremely troubled, because their way too ambitious initial plan (completely new type of game, extensive melee combat, a main character that gets more and more damaged and crippled over time, deep RPG elements, etc.) didn't work out and so in the end they were basically forced to cobble together what they had and create a basic FPS, because they were running out of time (and willpower).

Basically it's amazing how compelling this complete trainwreck of a game turned out to be. I love the weird juxtaposition of those disparate elements.

if there was any indication you watched the ahoy video its you using the word juxtaposition

 

[Accoun]

Is there any good documentary or magazine interview that discusses the complete change in identity given to this series from the second game onward?

I think the best thing would still be the Masters Of Doom book. It's not Quake-centered, but part of it takes place during Quake times (up until before Doom 3, IIRC).

 

[Vidal]

I always had this same feeling. With Quake 2, it really felt like id made a Doom experiment, didn't like it as soon but was still good enough for sale, so transformed into Quake 2.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Yeah, I remember jumping from Quake 1 to 2 as a small child and was confused. Thought it was a different game. Did not compute.

 

[Lothars]

Nope I think quake 2 was as good as the original quake even though they don't have many simulaties.

 

[angelic]

Nope I think quake 2 was as good as the original quake even though they don't have many simulaties.

Nah quake 2 was generic scifi, quake 1 was something more down and dirty, more interesting.

I also think quake 1 looks better in software rendering, in low to mid res and on a CRT. Modern displays and 3d acceleration make it look far too clean and expose all of the low poly models, it actually looked awesome at the time.

 

[butman]

After DOOM 2016 i have faith OP.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

Yeah, I remember jumping from Quake 1 to 2 as a small child and was confused. Thought it was a different game. Did not compute.

This was my experience as well. I was very young when I was first exposed to these games and it simply didn't make sense in my small mind why the two games were so different. Mind you, I think I still played them years after their original release but I did play them in order.

I remember thinking Quake was scary. I remember thinking Quake 2 was boring. BTW my first exposure to Quake 2 was the N64 version which wasn't the REAL Quake 2. My exposure to PC Quake 2 wouldn't come until a few years later still and it did not improve my overall outlook of the game.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

Just look at this shit:

Fuck Quake 2

 

[Rickenslacker]

The throughline of Quake was that there was never any consistent theme to it beyond, like, bunnyhopping and rocket jumping. I didn't really think much of it at the time because it was one of the first FPS games I played so it was just kind of the baseline, but the mishmash of sci-fi medieval and Lovecraft is something that Quake did so uniquely that I would love to see a direct sequel of. Quake 3 kind of took a bit of that aethetic back but it was a bit of an id-style Smash Bros mashup while lumping in a lot of new.

I don't hate Quake 2 or anything, but it's definitely the weakest of the id made trilogy, and Quake 4 is also really bland. I still give it some credit though, for as much as people really seemed to love Half-Life for the things it was doing, Quake 2 did a lot of the same.

 

[Izuna]

While I agree that Q1 never got a real sequel

This Q2 hating has me on edge.

 

[Renekton]

Not sure if Lovecraftian theme is the right direction, since many games don't do it justice. They give gothic building + tentacle monster and call it a day.

The only action games that came close to paying a decent homage are Bloodborne and maybe Eternal Darkness.

 

[pa22word]

reposting from the other quake thread:

While we're on the topic, everyone who hasn't be sure to check out Machine Games' Quake 20th Anniversary episode pack!

This Q2 hating has me on edge.

I wouldn't let it get to you. I think a lot of people have this weird reactionary bent towards Q2 that's really unfair in the context of an otherwise fucking awesome game just because it's not a lot like Q1 thematically.

You see the same thing nowadays regarding Arkane's Prey game. All star talent, great music, fucking System Shock omgz, but hey it's not like that other prey game that got canned so it's shit. Like, I just don't get it. It's dumb. Judge a game on its own laurels not what you want it to be =\

 

[capylikesgames]

It's such a shame. And with Quake Champions coming soon, I don't think we should be waiting on it. Though I'd love for a spiritual succesor to happen someday, id or not. The theme seems like it'd be great in a solidly built triple-A title released in this day and age.

Judge a game on its own laurels not what you want it to be =

I get where you're coming from, especially in regards Prey. No need to throw heat at each other over differing tastes. That said, I played Quake 2 and just didn't enjoy it. That's just me though, and I totally respect fans of Quake as it stands right now.

 

[>:)]

Just look at this shit:

Fuck Quake 2

This is the single biggest problem with Q2 single player right here. Not a single enemy in that game had that OH SHIT factor the original had.

Fiends? The way they leap at you, seeming not taking any damage as you dodge and hope they die soon. The Blobs? Like the fiends, except you DON'T want to kill them close because they blow up in your goddamn face! The Vores? Lemme run into the next room, down a few floors and lose this homing explosion. Whew! *turns around* IT'S STILL FOLLOWING ME! And then there's ol fluffy up there. Ahhhh just a big ol melee monster, OH SHIT HE SHOOTS LIGHTNING!

Thankfully Q2 multiplayer delivered (or rather it's mods), or this would be inferior in every way.

 

[AaronMT86]

To be honest, who played Quake II for the campaign?

 

[Synth]

To be honest, who played Quake II for the campaign?

This guy:

While I agree that Q1 never got a real sequel

This Q2 hating has me on edge.

 

[ichtyander]

It's no secret that the development of Quake was extremely troubled, because their way too ambitious initial plan (completely new type of game, extensive melee combat, a main character that gets more and more damaged and crippled over time, deep RPG elements, etc.) didn't work out and so in the end they were basically forced to cobble together what they had and create a basic FPS, because they were running out of time (and willpower).

Basically it's amazing how compelling this complete trainwreck of a game turned out to be. I love the weird juxtaposition of those disparate elements.

Seriously, the game has no right being as good as it is, I really can't think of another example of a game having such high ambitions, terribly troubled development and being butchered down to almost a Doom 3.0 and still becoming a timeless classic.

I think you can definitely feel the rough edges, inconsistencies and varied quality of the levels/episodes (having played through the game and its official expansions fairly recently), but it's still a pretty damn excellent game.

 

[StrategyFan]

john romero was good at making single player levels

he left id after quake 1. that (along with increased multiplayer focus) is probably why the later games weren't as fun in single player

 

[Sheroking]

This thread is educational for me.

In my mind, Quake = MP and Doom = SP. Never really saw Quake as anything but an MP arena shooter series, but I never really played any of them except 3.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

After Doom 2016, all I could imagine was a proper sequel to Quake 1, from this team (only have them also make the MP).

I never found Quake 2, 3, or 4 to be appealing in even remotely the same way as Quake 1. They're worlds apart IMO, and I think a large part of that is the split between Carmack and Romero post-Q1.

 

[Herbspiceguy]

All I cared for was the multiplayer focused QuakeWorld, especially mods like CTF and Team Fortress.
The shift in setting/tone never bothered me so much in sequels, but the purple skies, brown/green walls, player grunts and grappling hook will have a special place in my heart.

 

[Poimandres]

Nah quake 2 was generic scifi, quake 1 was something more down and dirty, more interesting.

I also think quake 1 looks better in software rendering, in low to mid res and on a CRT. Modern displays and 3d acceleration make it look far too clean and expose all of the low poly models, it actually looked awesome at the time.

Quake 2 looks awesome in software rendering as well though. More texture detail I'm pretty sure.

In hindsight, I like the Quake 1 software look more but at the time the "smoothness" of the GL version was super impressive.

Anyway, I still had an excellent time with Quake 2 multiplayer + mods. Some amazing map design, at DM1 The Edge is probably still my GOAT FPS multiplayer map. But for single player its OG Quake all the way!

 

[World SkiFree]

Yup, love me some Quake.

I eventually played through Q2. I thought it was okay but as others have noted, Q1 is simply something special. A compromised vision gone right.

That pea-shooter default pistol in Q2 didn't make a good first impression, particularly after experiencing the boomstick/bloody axe combo in Q1.

 

[Dremark]

The company internally collapsed as a result of the game's development and it never got a proper follow up. Considering how stormy the dev cycle for the game was and the fact it was supposed to be another genre through most of it's development we're lucky we got the game at all the.

 

[Izuna]

To be honest, who played Quake II for the campaign?

It's my fav---

This crowd isn't for me. But yes, I would like a Q1 reboot

 

[Airan]

To be honest, who played Quake II for the campaign?

It allowed co-op, so hell yes me and my cousins played the shit out of campaign. Story and setting made no sense to our little brains but we didn't care. Rail-fucking-guns for the win.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

Q2 is the best of the series imo, even if it hasnt got much to do with the original

 

[orava]

Fuck the haters. Quake 2 was awesome.

 

[Izuna]

Q2 is the best of the series imo, even if it hasnt got much to do with the original

Fuck the haters. Quake 2 was awesome.

 

[Rambler]

The things that made Quake 1 good cannot exist today.

 

[eot]

It's no secret that the development of Quake was extremely troubled, because their way too ambitious initial plan (completely new type of game, extensive melee combat, a main character that gets more and more damaged and crippled over time, deep RPG elements, etc.) didn't work out and so in the end they were basically forced to cobble together what they had and create a basic FPS, because they were running out of time (and willpower).

Basically it's amazing how compelling this complete trainwreck of a game turned out to be. I love the weird juxtaposition of those disparate elements.

Exactly, the game should be a disaster, but instead it's something unique and great that could never have come about from any other circumstances. It's what makes it so special.

 

[rrs]

Quake 2 looks awesome in software rendering as well though. More texture detail I'm pretty sure.

In hindsight, I like the Quake 1 software look more but at the time the "smoothness" of the GL version was super impressive.

Anyway, I still had an excellent time with Quake 2 multiplayer + mods. Some amazing map design, at DM1 The Edge is probably still my GOAT FPS multiplayer map. But for single player its OG Quake all the way!

quake's textures are in a lowpoly style that will look bad with any kind of texture filtering, the same goes for doom