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2012 NBA Finals |OT| Good Job, Good Effort
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
timezones bro
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Its probably more that he got a new PR team this year.
Those rosters in Cleveland were so bad they had no business sniffing the finals.
If he had stayed in Ohio I'd probably be the one trolling him calling him too scared of media/fan backlash to leave that shitty roster/shitty city/shitty organization.
Still should have been Chicago though. Rose/lebron/deng/boozer/noah with watson/gibson/asik is better than any roster this year or last year.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
He fired his friends, they're his friends.
Bron's teams in Cleveland were just as good, if not a bit better, than every wolves team KG had except the one in 2003-2004. And in the non 2003-2004 years, the Wolves were only in a solid position to win a playoff series in 1997-1998 (When they went up 2-1 in a best of 5 format against Seattle)
Thing is, the weakness of the East allowed Bron to get very, VERY deep in the playoffs year after year. And I don't think Bron ever had to deal with the "Well, at least they made the playoffs!" limbo/defeatism of a lot of the wolves squads. The cavs were built around him, and they were 1 piece away from being a legitimate title contender year after year, because they'd be able to coast to the NBA finals and be no worse than a 2:1 underdog to steal the finals with someone who had as much potential as lebron on their team.
Lebron was always right there in the late stages of the playoff hunt. KG's teams never could dream of getting that close because the west was so much more stacked than the east. And when you get that deep in the playoffs year after year, you're expected to come through in the clutch and finish your opponents off. The only time you don't get ripped to shreds is when you play your ass off and your team still loses.
As good as KG was, he was never an explosive scorer who took over the game. 30 point games were special. 40 point games were once-every-5-years. KG was always the type of player who would steadily wear on you over the course of a game, always there to score 5-10 points a quarter, but never going ice cold or red hot. Nevertheless, he DID step up in elimination games usually. It just wasn't enough because his opponent was usually a team like the spurs or lakers or some other strong 1-3 seed like the rockets or Sonics.
An explosive player like Lebron that averages 27-30 a game should NEVER disappear in a conference/NBA finals series.
Thing is, the weakness of the East allowed Bron to get very, VERY deep in the playoffs year after year. And I don't think Bron ever had to deal with the "Well, at least they made the playoffs!" limbo/defeatism of a lot of the wolves squads. The cavs were built around him, and they were 1 piece away from being a legitimate title contender year after year, because they'd be able to coast to the NBA finals and be no worse than a 2:1 underdog to steal the finals with someone who had as much potential as lebron on their team.
Lebron was always right there in the late stages of the playoff hunt. KG's teams never could dream of getting that close because the west was so much more stacked than the east. And when you get that deep in the playoffs year after year, you're expected to come through in the clutch and finish your opponents off. The only time you don't get ripped to shreds is when you play your ass off and your team still loses.
As good as KG was, he was never an explosive scorer who took over the game. 30 point games were special. 40 point games were once-every-5-years. KG was always the type of player who would steadily wear on you over the course of a game, always there to score 5-10 points a quarter, but never going ice cold or red hot. Nevertheless, he DID step up in elimination games usually. It just wasn't enough because his opponent was usually a team like the spurs or lakers or some other strong 1-3 seed like the rockets or Sonics.
An explosive player like Lebron that averages 27-30 a game should NEVER disappear in a conference/NBA finals series.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
So bad they had the best record in the league two consecutive years. They had a shitty coach and Bron threw up some stinkers, so did Mo Williams partly due to a coaching staff that couldn't adjust for whatever reason. Those teams were put together to compliment Bron's Frankenstein drive and dish/ dribble and dish game. Much like Miller/Jones/Battier/Chalmers are in Miami.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Yup
I thought the new team was actually a PR company tho
Dude has been nailing his cliches this year
iamshadowlark
Banned
Teams over-achieve. There was hardly two legit players on those teams at any given time.
Everybody tells most of Heat-Age that they're absurd anytime they say anything.
And yes, thinking that winning one chip is enough to be compared with people with 5-6 is totally "Heat Fans".
But what more can you expect from a franchise that has a parade before they've played a game. It's totally Heat culture to take lesser accomplishments and then want them to get you out of criticisms for bigger ones:
You want to act like "Not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7" is now justified when he gets 1 as if winning 1 is the same as winning 8.
You want to act like we can't say Lebron chokes in big games after a clear history of doing so in the finals because he's played well in earlier rounds as if that's the same thing.
You want us to not be able to say "Ok Bron, you got 1, you got a while to go to reach your potential" because he already got one and we should stop hating.
Low standards (Division title banners) and exaggerated accomplishments (championship parade before having a practice) are completely Heat culture.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
When was the last time a bad team had anywhere close to 66 wins?
After Lebron left they dropped from 61 to 19 wins.
That should tell you something about the rest of the team.
lawlohwhat
Banned
My god, I think you're actually serious.
actually no i never said any of those things, so congrats on wasting your time thinking of that nd typing that, you make your own arguments up though. i would just like you to shut the hell up when he plays well instead of trying to downplay it every time
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Yeah, but JJ Hickson and Mo Williams have had stellar careers, they just need to be complementary players even though they are terrible at doing that well.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
A lot more happened to that team than LeBron leaving.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
You guys are arguing with a Kobe ass sniffer. The man who claims Lebron has no clutch gene despite the last two series' of clutch performance.
Dudes insane
Dudes insane
A lot more than Lebron left.
iamshadowlark
Banned
I dare you to try and put together a title team with this shit. With horrible contracts on top of that.
So then you agree with me on those points. The next time I say something like "If Lebron wins 1, it won't be the same as winning 5" try to stop yourself from making a dumb ass snarky comment just because I said something against Lebron that you perceived was an insult.
You don't even know what a clutch gene is. And outside of game 7, Lebron didn't take over any contested fourth quarter in this Boston series so far. So what you're talking about can only be assumed that you think first quarter scoring outbursts qualify as having a "clutch gene"
iamshadowlark
Banned
I don't see how you bother. Its like he doesn't get tired of typing the same shit. And then you have the LAL-age circle-jerk of "High standards" or whatever the fuck, like its something other than a fucking game.
How dare you celebrate.
Edit: I betcha the Soviet would love to hear more about these clutch genes. Anybody got any papers?
Well first of all I don't agree with you on your points. "not 5 not 6 not 7"---he's already admit that was dumb. If you choose to continue holding it against him, well, that's on you.
My dumb ass snarky comment is going to come your way every time you go out of your way to try and down play his shit. If the heat win the title and he plays awful and gets flak I don't give a shit. I'm about the miami heat. but when you come in here after every game and post shit like "lol heat fans getting overhyped about lebron again---LET ME TELL YOU WHY HE ISN'T JORDAN" when you could easily just chill out and just let things play out and then talk, well you ask for it
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Not saying the FO doesn't deserve blame but they were far from being bad.
Also,
I'm pretty sure the only dumbass comment made was YOU
"Let me tell you what people will say before a single Finals game has been played----while I'm at it, I think those people will be wrong for at least another 5 years!"
Yeah, because Scottie's 6 puts him a level above Shaq's 4 and Wilt's 2 and Hakeem's 2
I'm pretty sure the only dumbass comment made was YOU
"Let me tell you what people will say before a single Finals game has been played----while I'm at it, I think those people will be wrong for at least another 5 years!"
Yeah, because Scottie's 6 puts him a level above Shaq's 4 and Wilt's 2 and Hakeem's 2
He never had a legitimate "Robin" until last season.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Yup, and they were still a lot better than revisionist try to paint them.
WTF are you talking about? I've been talking about how incredible his last two performances are for the last 4 days. However (and this is where me and Heat Fans Differ), I don't act like Lebron James just won 6 rings because he scored 45 points in game 6. The attitude of "ok, now all the haters can shut up, there's nothing left to criticize" that Heat-Age and Lebron-Age have been spewing is exactly consistent with the claims I made against you guys of exaggerated accomplishments. It's that death by Volcano dude saying Lebron's exhibited a clutch gene in the last two series despite him playing horribly and missing FT's in almost every close game down the stretch against both the Pacers and the Celtics simply because he had a great game 6 in the blowout and a great game 7.
As for Jordan, yea he's not Jordan. For the record, I've said countless times, neither is Kobe. I'm right on both accounts. what's your point.
I'm surprised you didn't say Horry's 7. It's the same retarded attempt at an argument. But you're right - Lebron's 1 is in fact more amazing than Kobe's 5, Magic's 5, and Jordan's 6. What must I be thinking to be so crazy to think otherwise.
lemme try - an overused, lazy turn of phrase that means absolutely nothing. its frequent can be indicative of extreme fandom or early onset dementia in some individuals. see: Bayless, Vahagn.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Well first of all the only person exaggerating accomplishments is you---I guarantee you there isn't a Heat fan who will be happy without winning the title this year.
Everything up until now doesn't really matter. It's the Finals, the one place where he hasn't proven he can get it done. I'm not really sure why everybody else wastes so much time talking everything else.
iamshadowlark
Banned
I refuse to believe you are in the same dimension as the rest of us. Are you on shrooms or some shit?
Everybody, including every NBA player, acknowledges being clutchness as being a real thing. But, by all means, keep being a dumbass with 0 basketball experience and argue against a universally acknowledged thing while calling everyone who disagrees with you suffering from dementia simply because you haven't found a way to quantify it yet.
Do you legitimately think he had a championship-level supporting cast in Cleveland?
The Frankman
Banned
He needs to win one first but you're basically saying 5 RINGS OR HE'S NOT THOSE GUYS.
In the end, it's really a stupid thing to talk about until his career is done. If he finishes with 3 rings and 3 MVPs you will still say it's not on their level because it's NOT 5, which I'd disagree with, but whatever.
Vicetrailia
Member
this lenseless trend has to stop
Illuminati
MorisUkunRasik
Member
2007 Spurs
2008Celtics
2009 Lakers
2010 Lakers
and 2011 Mavs
Are all better than those Cavs teams but they weren't bad like Luchashaq said. Unless Cleveland pulled off a really big move they weren't going to do win a chip, but as it seems matching Wade and Bosh still can't get Bron a ring. He's proving to be incredibly hard to build around.
what exactly is the clutch gene then? Is it hitting shots/ game winners in the final minute? If it is then Kobe sure as hell doesn't have it either.
this lenseless trend has to stop
I don't get it. Why has it caught on ? Why would you want to wear frames/specs if you don't need/have a prescription ?
No, it's not that. And sure he does. He has the most game winners in history. You're making the mistake of mistaking fg% for actual game winners.
Again, someone who has 5 chips is a 5 time champion and it doesn't matter that it took him 10 finals appearances or whatever. It doesn't diminish his 5 rings. Someone who's 3 for 3 isn't more of a champion.
I would define the clutch gene as the innate ability to be fearless in the highest level pressure situations coupled with the ability to actually perform in those situations and the willingness to take the credit or the blame for taking on the responsibility of getting your team over the hump in those situations.
I'm sure JR Smith doesn't lack confidence, but he sure as heck hasn't shown the ability to hit big shots in big playoff games routinely. In fact, he usually makes mistakes and melts down in those situations. Fisher has the clutch gene because he has no fear in performing in those situations, and taking the responsibility on his shoulders to do so, along with the ability to do so.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
I like dis thread. Good Jeffert.
OKC in 7
OKC in 7
iamshadowlark
Banned
Say what? He's in the finals for the second time in two years. And this postseason hasn't been particularly kind in regards to curveballs.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
PRAISE OUR GOD
Will you just give us a list of your qualifiers so we know exactly what the hell your criteria is for what being "more of a champion" than someone else is?
Kobe literally has 1 more playoff game winner than Lebron.
the idea of "clutch" is far too predicated on attitude instead of efficiency.