Smaller devs do that anyway, for the most part Sony gets "sloppy seconds" when it comes to Indie games that come out on PC first and get their console debuts later, parity clause just means it's either not coming to Xbox till they get rid of the clause, or coming to it a LOT later than it naturally would have.
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[2014] Xbox One Indie Parity Clause impacting number of announcements for system
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
Smaller devs do that anyway, for the most part Sony gets "sloppy seconds" when it comes to Indie games that come out on PC first and get their console debuts later, parity clause just means it's either not coming to Xbox till they get rid of the clause, or coming to it a LOT later than it naturally would have.
It doesn't sound selfish, it sounds short-sighted.
You are assuming the supply of games hasn't been diminished due to the clause, and there's strong evidence that it has.
Edit: Nevermind, looks like I misunderstood this. I'll keep the original post intact for context.
LastGamer84
Member
This, if anything it means that Sony will benefit from the clause. MS likely drafted that clause when they believed they would dominate this generation, and so thought they could dictate terms. Now they have to accept that they aren't top dog and can't entice smaller devs with a guaranteed install base.
MS needs to get rid of the clause, it only hurts them at this point.
serversurfer
Member
That's the point I was originally trying to make; they aren't ready to admit defeat just yet.
Also, they don't even need to be "top dog." If they capture half of the market, the clause will be quite effective indeed. Even a 2:1 split still grants them considerable power over developers.
Interesting read. Thanks.
For those interested:
"The PS3 version of Joe Danger 2 will include 10 hours of exclusive content that harks back to the original game "
^^^ That's Sony's equivalent of launch parity. If PlayStation gets a late port, they ask the developer to include some platform-exclusive content, to "justify" the wait for their users.
LastGamer84
Member
But when your competitor isn't demanding such a clause, the choice is pretty easy for developers: Develop for PS4 first, port to Xbox One much later, if at all. A 2:1 split means, assuming the game is good, that you'll make your money back and then some.
I assume that's why a lot of titles are going PS4/PC. They can hit the biggest market of all (PC), and the biggest segment of the console market (PS4). MS can't have much power over developers when they have two very good alternatives - and Sony doesn't seem to care at all if a game comes to PC alongside PS4.
Then the choice for developers becomes: Only develop for Xbox One - or develop for the other two markets and forget about Xbox One until MS makes an exception.
serversurfer
Member
Err, you lost me. Sony don't make such demands, so your "only" option is to do XBone first, or say goodbye to it forever. If MS control a third of the market, that's an awful lot of users to turn your back on. So you need to launch to the smaller market first, and then go back and port to the larger user base.
The whole point of Microsoft's policy is to eliminate your suggestion as an option. =/
LastGamer84
Member
Sorry, what I meant was that most devs will go "No thanks" and release on PS4 and PC since Sony doesn't care if a game also comes out on PC at the same time (or even before PS4). Turning your back on the Xbox One doesn't really hurt you in the long run since you have PS4 and PC users.
TheOldSlimer
Neo Member
"Now that loophole is closed, and devs are not allowed to release an XB1 version of their game, period, if they have already released it on PS4."
Is this real life?
Is this real life?
serversurfer
Member
Bitch Pudding
Member
Yes it is, and if the One had come out on top it would actually have been a big deal for MS. (my grammar suckz, sorry....).
EDIT
Well, that did not happen and most likely never will. Instead PS4 came out on top. And now PS4 is the only console profiting from MS' clause. Which is somehow funny, btw.
The fact that the clause ist still valid shows one thing to me: The one responsible for it seems to be a very important person at MS. Because deciding to get rid of it means he or she made a major mistake, and as always somebody is to blame for such incompetency. I can only guess that this "VIP" has to interest to take the blame, as he or she has no interest to harm his career.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I agree. I expect a lot of indie developers will opt to release on PC and PS4, as that seems to have become the de facto pairing so far this gen, and forgo Xbone altogether. Let's not forget that most of these indie games come from very small teams (just a couple of people in some cases) and logistically developing for PC and then porting to two different consoles for simultaneous launch is not necessarily practical for them.
There seems to have been a complete neglect of indies altogether from MS this gen. I mean, initially they were running with the same Xbox 360 method whereby every game had to have a publisher, and they only changed it following outcry from consumers. Sony and Nintendo have allowed self-publishing on their platforms for years now.
Reclaimer.
Banned
Parity clause would have worked out better for MS if they were in a better position. XNA and XBLA were great initiatives for indies. Sony's indie support is better nowadays and they're outselling XBO 2:1 (at least) ww. Microsoft needs indies more they need Microsoft.
Miles Quaritch
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkezmAfzVs8
Looks cool. What price point are you aiming for?
Did MS just not get back to you or do they keep stalling?
Nice. So many games these days....so many of them get overlooked. Can the mainstream games-media do indies justice - that'll be the day.
Prototype Viktor
Member
don't like the look of the main red woman (Red Goddess), just seems off but other then that i can f's with that game
Thanks for your comment, we'll release it for 14,99 in April 2015
MS reply us one month ago that now we're developers, but we don't receive the dev kit
I send you a new screenshot about, please send us your comments and ideas , thanks!
I am the Law
Banned
This whole post just reeks of Spencer's scumbag attitude. He's like the Kim Jong Un of the gaming industry. Alienating developers and consumers alike.
It's a sad state of affairs for developers and gamers to be divided like this.
It's a sad state of affairs for developers and gamers to be divided like this.
Thanks for your comment, we'll release it for 14,99 in April 2015
MS reply us one month ago that now we're developers, but we don't receive the dev kit
Around 10$ then. Game looks solid. PSV version maybe?
boredandlazy
Member
So you don't buy games because they're Indies?
Jimmyfenix
Member
I don't buy indies on consoles. Unless they're as good as Bastion or Transistor they're not worth listing as games to buy a system over.
Wickerbasket
Member
More variety of games is still better than less.
This thread isn't about whether you think they're good games or not.
Triggerhappytel
Member
But those games are both available on PC!
Do you consider smaller digital games like Resogun, Journey or Super Stardust HD to be indie?
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Yep, because somehow his purchasing decisions are relevant to the topic.
Alternate title: "Xbox parity clause prevents plebians who partake of indie 'games' from playing their kiddie stuff"
Triggerhappytel
Member
Because four people quoted him out of 1386 posts?! Good logic pal.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
He was being sarcastic to poke fun at an... interesting post.
TrebuchetGames
Member
Perhaps their plan is to prevent too many indie games on their platform, as only bigger indies might be in a position to release on multiple platforms at the same time. They are making their platform less attractive to some indies and that's a shame (I think the list shows that), because it would be nice to release at some point on the XBO but also because the more games people have to pick from (as long as the quality is there) the better for the platform and it's users who have invested heavily in the machine.
Note: I did notice that I posted something similar before, apologies for that, it's difficult to keep track of posting on a popular thread
TrebuchetGames
Member
Yeah the company was only started 1 year ago, but I work full time in the games industry as a designer so progress has been slow, but my aim has been to get this project up and running. It's not been easy, but things are finally falling into place.
I met Sony, MS and Nintendo at a finance Event at EGX in September, and MS were really positive (and really friendly), but ultimately it still came down to the fact that there was no way that I can release on their platform unless it's on day of release as playstation and has content that is XBO exclusive. I was certainly willing to try, I applied for financing with MS's Greenshoots funding and unfortunately didn't get anywhere. Without any additional help (funding or not) as a new indie you have to weigh up your risks and to me releasing on VITA/PS4/PC is the best combination for my game, might not be for others but I can also see PS4/PC being a good combination for people.
As others have said, the platform is not an issue for indies (though I have a Playstation 4 and dont currently have an XBO), I want to release on as much as possible. I want to be a success and making this game on as many platforms gives me that chance. Unfortunately not being able to do it does mean that in the future i will be more inclined to continue with Sony and PC.
Note: if anyone is interested in being an indie dev or wants information on what things you have to do, go through, let me know, happy to provide advice/help with issues that I have come across.
Whats fuckin me up is why so many people in this thread have this as their avatar:
Why???
They lost an avatar bet with Verendus regarding PSX.
It's all on the dev's hands.
ConanTheKing
Member
Good luck to the indie devs, this will probably go away in time like the other negative policies surrounding the Xbox One hopefully!
serversurfer
Member
Say, that looks pretty cool. Levitation and Possession sound interesting. The video looked cool, though kinda jerky or something. It's hard to explain exactly what I mean though, and it may feel fine when playing. It just looks off to me for some reason I can't quite put my finger on. "Not fluid," is the best description I can give, I guess. =/I send you a new screenshot about, please send us your comments and ideas , thanks!
lifeexpectancy
Member
I meant the more buyers will opt to buy ps4, giving an even greater lead and even less incentive for indy devs to give in to this parity clause nonsense.
serversurfer
Member
Didn't you hear? MS won December again! The gap is closing!! Forced parity will start paying dividends any minute now.
That's Microsoft's hope, anyway.
I think an interesting take away is that even a company like Apple that is often considered a control freak has no problem with Android ports. They take the carrot approach and at times help promote games that are iOS first, but don't penalize games that come the other way. That should be a good framework for MS to follow.
At the 2:33 mark Vince Ingenito asks the Dungeon Defenders 2 dev on whether the game is coming to consoles (after Vince mentions playing it on Xbox 360/XBLA) and he says it's coming to PS4 exclusively sometime in 2015.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSd6nfP1-TE
So another game that the Xbox One misses out on, c'mon Microsoft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSd6nfP1-TE
So another game that the Xbox One misses out on, c'mon Microsoft.
At the 2:33 mark Vince Ingenito asks the Dungeon Defenders 2 dev on whether the game is coming to consoles (after Vince mentions playing it on Xbox 360/XBLA) and he says it's coming to PS4 exclusively sometime in 2015.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSd6nfP1-TE
So another game that the Xbox One misses out on, c'mon Microsoft.
Ouch. MS is losing out on a lot of games....disappointing.
Nightengale
Member
I recall DD2 being console exclusive is because of a partnership with Sony.
Not so much of a policy thing, but more of handshakes.
Not so much of a policy thing, but more of handshakes.
Ugh, that's probably just as annoying.
At the 2:33 mark Vince Ingenito asks the Dungeon Defenders 2 dev on whether the game is coming to consoles (after Vince mentions playing it on Xbox 360/XBLA) and he says it's coming to PS4 exclusively sometime in 2015.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSd6nfP1-TE
So another game that the Xbox One misses out on, c'mon Microsoft.
Looks pretty good.
Nightengale
Member
Well, partnerships happen across the board. That's part of the business and competition. Like how Sony has a broad partnership with Devolver or how MS and Capy are common partners. At least with partnerships, we can safely assume the devs are being rewarded for it.
And then there's bullshit policies. Which benefits no one and fucks over developers who may want to release on competitors first.
StraySheep
Banned
This may have been discussed somewhere in the thread, but I wonder what the long-term ramifications of the parity clause will be even if it's lifted. I know at the end of the day developers want to get their game out on as many systems as possible, but I'd imagine indie devs are pissed off enough to where they will still be playing favorites.
serversurfer
Member
When two companies announce they're "partnering" on a project, it doesn't imply one has purchased the loyalty of the other. They may have chosen to work together simply because they found it mutually beneficial.
Nightengale
Member
One would imagine that what you said is exactly why MS is reluctant to lift it.
The state of the market now largely favours Sony in terms of install base and perception of being the best place for such games. One would imagine most developers would pick developing for PS4 first over XB1 anyway.