Support NeoGAF

[Raylan Targaryen]

some dems seem to wish all republicans would disappear from the earth, which seems like a lot of mass murder for a political cause.

It's a little different because wanting republicans gone means the preservation of humanity

Republicans don't give a shit about you unless you're a rich white male. Not a political cause, more just wanting to be able to live

 

[jfkgoblue]

it's actually 44% if you add rarely

And 38% of Democrats.

These poll questions are typically leading but let's circle jerk about what we already believe to be true anyways.

 

[Sunster]

some dems seem to wish all republicans would disappear from the earth, which seems like a lot of mass murder for a political cause.

i just want them to stop being so dumb and or racist.

 

[Matt]

I mean, yeah. Unless you are a complete pacifist in every respect no matter the consequences, there will always be civilian casualties in war.

This is an unfortunate reality.

 

[UberTag]

I wonder how high these numbers would go if you assured the white/Caucasian Christians that none of the innocent civilians being targeted and killed were white/Caucasian Christians.

 

[ZealousD]

You guys are outraged, but I've seen enough on this board to know that if said civilian was a Neo-Nazi, a statistically significant number of posters on GAF would agree.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Let you punch a Nazi though, Republicans get concerned as fuck

You guys are outraged, but I've seen enough on this board to know that if said civilian was a Neo-Nazi, a statistically significant number of posters on GAF would agree.

I love that "neo nazi civilians", like being a nazi isn't a inherently violent stance.

 

[Sunster]

You guys are outraged, but I've seen enough on this board to know that if said civilian was a Neo-Nazi, a statistically significant number of posters on GAF would agree.

got posts to back that up?

 

[Windam]

I'm ready for the US to split apart. I don't want to live in money worshipping faux Christian America anymore. Let me move to the United States of Canada.

I'd much prefer we remain "Canada". We needn't taint ourselves.

 

[YesThatGuy]

The other 79% lied.

Which is un-Christian, which is, shocking, totally 'American'.

 

[Matt]

I love that "neo nazi civilians", like being a nazi isn't a inherently violent stance.

What?

A Neo-Nazi's is a civilian if they are not a member of the military or other armed and militarily active organization.

Being a civilian is not a state of mind.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

You guys are outraged, but I've seen enough on this board to know that if said civilian was a Neo-Nazi, a statistically significant number of posters on GAF would agree.

Historians will undoubtedly look back on this period of Neo-Nazi ball cupping with puzzlement

 

[Elegant Weapon]

What?

A Neo-Nazi's is a civilian if they are not a member of the military or other armed and militarily active organization.

Being a civilian is not a state of mind.

are gang members civilians?

 

[Sunster]

are gang members civilians?

yes.

 

[Matt]

are gang members civilians?

Yes, unless they engage in some sort of armed coordinated military action. You could call ISIS a gang and a paramilitary force, for example.

Criminals are usually civilians.

 

[ZealousD]

got posts to back that up?

Lots of support for punching Nazis around here. You can look for the Richard Spencer threads if you want. Killing is just the next step.

Would the majority of GAF agree? Likely not. And I don't think support for punching Neo-Nazis is the same as support for killing them. I just see a kind of handwaving or excusing of certain flavors of political violence around these parts and so that tells me at least some people would take the next step.

 

[tearsintherain]

If 62% of democrats truly believed it was NEVER justified how come so few protested the thousands and thousands of drone strikes the US has carried out over the past decade, every one of which has a chance to hit civilians (and thousands of civilians HAVE died that way)?

 

[Kurdel]

Lots of support for punching Nazis around here. You can look for the Richard Spencer threads if you want. Killing is just the next step.

What

 

[MetalGearZed]

Who the FUCK said 'Often'!?

edit: oh right, nazis

Yeah i think this poll really just boils down to that most nazis are right wingers
fucking 1 in 5 tho!?

 

[Sunster]

Lots of support for punching Nazis around here. You can look for the Richard Spencer threads if you want. Killing is just the next step.

Would the majority of GAF agree? Likely not. And I don't think support for punching Neo-Nazis is the same as support for killing them. I just see a kind of handwaving or excusing of certain flavors of political violence around these parts and so that tells me at least some people would take the next step.

i remember that thread and i was one of the posters who applauded the punch. I've never seen people asking for any worse action than that though.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

What

You didn't know punching is the gateway drug to MURDER?!?!?

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

They scored higher than the muslims they claim are evil terrorists.

 

[Sunster]

are gang members civilians?

this is interesting because gang members may not consider themselves civilians. I remember watching The Wire and in season 2 Omar (runs a stickup crew) differentiated drug dealers or people "in the game" from civilians when talking about the killing of a security guard. But officially, they are definitely civilians and should DEFINITELY be treated as such.

 

[HotHamBoy]

This is a pretty dumb poll to pay attention to.

 

[Sain Drevia]

Not particularly surprising. There are a large number of folks, not just in the US, who are reprehensible and have a very limited moral compass. Humans have the propensity to be incredibly selfish, or to act in a way that only furthers their own interests regardless of the collateral.

 

[cackhyena]

are gang members civilians?

Is this a serious question?

 

[ZealousD]

i remember that thread and i was one of the posters who applauded the punch. I've never seen people asking for any worse action than that though.

I think some individuals within the group that supported the punch would similarly support it if he was murdered. It's a large enough population on this board, doubtless there are some who would take it to the extreme.

 

[Lowmelody]

Well, I wouldn't shed tears for neo nazis. lol

 

[MetalGearZed]

some dems seem to wish all republicans would disappear from the earth, which seems like a lot of mass murder for a political cause.

well to be fair, the world might quite literally end sooner because of them due to their stance on climate change

 

[LegendofJoe]

I'd much prefer we remain "Canada". We needn't taint ourselves.

Fair enough, Canada would become a preeminent world power if the New England and West Coast states joined. The contrast between it and the rest of the former US would eventually be so stark the people there might actually do some introspection and change for the better.

 

[thefil]

*edit* I guess "rarely" covers these cases.

"Political" reasons is really ambiguous and leaves the door wide open to trolley problems, no? Like, would you kill one reprehensible civilian if it would lead to a (political) bill being passed for socialized health care in the US, saving many lives per year?

Then war is also a case, if that falls under political. If Nazis used civilians as human shields to invade and conquer the US, what would you do?

For reference, this is from the Pew page citing reasons people answered in the affirmative:

To better understand what respondents in the general public were thinking about when they answered this question, Pew Research Center writers and editors called back some of the survey respondents who said targeting and killing civilians for political, social or religious reasons can at least sometimes be justified. Some of them said civilian casualties that are a byproduct of war can be justified. One man in his 50s, for example, said: ”It's just like [World War II] – sometimes killing civilians is part of the cost of war. We hope it will never be necessary, but if we have to do it, we'll do it."

Although the survey question was intended to probe the morality of targeting innocent people to advance a cause – as suicide bombers and other terrorists often do – some respondents may have interpreted it more broadly. For instance, one man in his 80s said that violence against civilians is acceptable ”just in self-defense." And another man in his 50s said: ”If I'm walking along and I'm peaceful, and somebody wants to hurt me or my family because of their political, religious, social views, by all means I think ... our law enforcement has every right to put them down."

I feel like if you hear a question like this and instantly answer "of course not, never, under any circumstances, no matter the cost" you are either not thinking about it very hard, or limiting the domain of the question in a way that is unstated.

I am thankful I have never been placed in a position where I've actually had to make a trolley problem decision.

 

[Alienfan]

I would have answered "rarely", because "never" is an absolute lie. Of course there are situations you could argue are justified, civilian doesn't mean "good" or non-armed. These polls are dumb

 

[Elegant Weapon]

this is interesting because gang members may not consider themselves civilians. I remember watching The Wire and in season 2 Omar (runs a stickup crew) differentiated drug dealers or people "in the game" from civilians when talking about the killing of a security guard. But officially, they are definitely civilians and should DEFINITELY be treated as such.

I just finished the Wire so this is what probably what my thinking is: when you decide to be a nazi, that's a position based on racial cleansing and genocide. It's not a benign opinion like liking chunky peanut butter over creamy.

So when people are caping for Richard Spencer after he publicly states that the US is for white people and questions if we need certain groups of people yet expects to not get at least punched, I'm puzzled.

It has to be the hight of privilege to advocate for race war yet not expect to get punched.

So yeah, being a nazi to me is like being "in the game". And when you in the game, you already made your decision on what to expect and it's not much different from enlisting, to me.

 

[emag]

self-defense

are gang members civilians?

'Can killing civilians to further political, social, or religious causes be justified?'

 

[Matt]

I just finished the Wire so this is what probably what my thinking is: when you decide to be a nazi, that's a position based on racial cleansing and genocide. It's not a benign opinion like liking chunky peanut butter over creamy.

So when people are caping for Richard Spencer after he publicly states that the US is for white people and questions if we need certain groups of people yet expects to not get at least punched, I'm puzzled.

It has to be the hight of privilege to advocate for race war yet not expect to get punched.

So yeah, being a nazi to me is like being "in the game". And when you in the game, you already made your decision on what to expect and it's not much different from enlisting, to me.

This viewpoint is actually kinda scary, and I think you might not really appreciate the implications of what you are saying, which is essentially that political, religious, or social views are enough to classify someone as a combatant. Which means you could conceivably create a war situation in which basically NO ONE is a civilian.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I think some individuals within the group that supported the punch would similarly support it if he was murdered. It's a large enough population on this board, doubtless there are some who would take it to the extreme.

See, by this "logic" I could assume that because you're opposed to Richard Spencer getting punched, you'd go further and support his racism and maybe even take it to the extreme of joining him.

 

[ZealousD]

I just finished the Wire so this is what probably what my thinking is: when you decide to be a nazi, that's a position based on racial cleansing and genocide. It's not a benign opinion like liking chunky peanut butter over creamy.

So when people are caping for Richard Spencer after he publicly states that the US is for white people and questions if we need certain groups of people yet expects to not get at least punched, I'm puzzled.

It has to be the hight of privilege to advocate for race war yet not expect to get punched.

So yeah, being a nazi to me is like being "in the game". And when you in the game, you already made your decision on what to expect and it's not much different from enlisting, to me.

So basically you're pulling something like a No True Scotsman to change the definition of a civilian in order to justify excluding Neo-Nazis.

See, by this "logic" I could assume that because you're opposed to Richard Spencer getting punched, you'd go further and support his racism and maybe even take it to the extreme of joining him.

No, because racism and pacifism are on completely different tracks. Murder and violence are on the same track.

 

[half a moon]

People are monsters

 

[Qvoth]

holy shit, like i understand arresting people for political causes, i can live with that, but fucking killing them? and there are people fine with this shit? goddamn humanity truly is overrated

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Why the fuck are democrats at 10%

 

[half a moon]

I wonder what the numbers would be on forcing people into suicide

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

So basically you're pulling something like a No True Scotsman to change the definition of a civilian in order to justify excluding Neo-Nazis.



No, because racism and pacifism are on completely different tracks. Murder and violence are on the same track.

Opposition to a Neo-Nazi suffering consequences for spreading hate isn't pacifism, but if it makes you feel better than so be it

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Regardless of the definition of civilian, I really don't think I can ever separate Nazi ideology with implied racial violence.


If that's what scares you Matt & ZealousD, I don't know what to tell you except caping for people who objectively decide to support racial cleansing isn't a good look. It's not like I'm the NRA saying BLM wants to kill white babies. The Nazi platform really is cool with killing babies.

 

[littleworm]

Not that I imagine most people were thinking of this when asked and probably out of the scope of the question being asked. But civilian can be a broad term, where do Paramilitaries fall in this? Or terrorist organizations?

 

[ZealousD]

Opposition to a Neo-Nazi suffering consequences for spreading hate isn't pacifism, but if it makes you feel better than so be it

You're blatantly using "suffering consequences" as a euphemism for violence in order to avoid the cognitive dissonance of saying that opposition to violence isn't pacifism.

Like, you can see how intellectually dishonest that is, right?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

You're blatantly using "suffering consequences" as a euphemism for violence in order to avoid the cognitive dissonance of saying that opposition to violence isn't pacifism.

Like, you can see how intellectually dishonest that is, right?

No more than your initial assertion that people who'd support a Neo-Nazi getting punched would probably also support his murder and the murder of Neo-Nazis in general.

 

[ZealousD]

No more than your initial assertion that people who'd support a Neo-Nazi getting punched would probably also support his murder and the murder of Neo-Nazis in general.

And now you're trying to claim that I said something that I didn't.

 

[Apathy]

Fuck that. All of those numbers are too high. People are frightening.

My thoughts exactly. Everyone involved should be ashamed at those numbers

 

[crackhead_bob]

FTFY

My parents are conservative, but they never subscribed to this bullshit. The term has been stolen by the right wing. Has been for years, but none of the establishment conservatives ever stepped in while it was being stolen from them.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

And now you're trying to claim that I said something that I didn't.

this is you right

I think some individuals within the group that supported the punch would similarly support it if he was murdered. It's a large enough population on this board, doubtless there are some who would take it to the extreme.