Support NeoGAF

[GuitarAtomik]

Loving this, I think Sony has a great chance of coming out as the winner in the VR war in the eyes of consumers and just kill it when the second generation comes. If they seek this thing at 300 bucks that is.

If we're talking about first gen units sold then there's really little doubt Sony will sell the most, but "win" the VR war? Eh. First of all, it's in all the companies interest that they all do well at the moment. Second, the real explosion of VR application will not be in games at all which will put PSVR specifically at a disadvantage in the long run when we're talking about the industry as a whole. Also, who knows what will be around for second gen. Apple could swoop in all of a sudden and steal everyone's mindshare.

 

[gcubed]

the biggest issue with the move controller is the legacy mini usb cable that is a relic.

 

[Chrisdk]

I'm a little worried that with no new hardware other than the headset it will be a significant step down compared to the Vive and Rift. But it will probably also be much more affordable. I'm really looking forward to all these VR headset getting released, so we can see how they stack up.

I'm still on the fence on if i'm going to completely skip the first gen, buy PSVR to save some money or go all in with the Vive or Rift. On one hand it would be nice to save some money, but on the other hand i have waited so long so a couple of hundred dollars to get the best headset ain't a big deal.

First world problems i guess...

 

[Hoo-doo]

The 3D audio is sounding more and more like a gamechanger to really sell presence.

 

[RadicalVelocity]

Lol

Well that just about confirms it that he would want 1/2 the resolution with a rgb vs pintile

I wonder why HTC and Oculus didnt go this route if its a better display and takes less resources?

I imagine that a part of it is just the nature of this being gen 1, with one company being a startup and another moving into an entirely different (brand new) market. Even if they wanted to, AFAIK there's only a few dozen companies that produce commercial OLED panels to begin with, and needing the customization required for VR will probably narrow that list significantly. Oculus is probably facing pretty hefty costs for the fairly customized screens from Samsung already (as many remember, Oculus was targeting about $400 build, and by switching to two custom displays/physical ipd adjustment/improved optics, plus some other things, ended up with a $600 product with essentially no profit margin). Sony very well may be willing to extend their developments for other companies producing VR, though, just as they produce the cameras that so many phones incorporate now. We'll have to see what happens for gen 2+.

 

[Neuromancer]

Oh? I thought it was done in the box. Because if I understood correctly from a previous video, the box also processes the movement data. So it would make sense to also reproject it there (if that is possible without significant delay)

Here ya go

But how demanding on system resources is the reprojection technology itself? Does the need to drive 120Hz impact on system resources?

[Shu Yoshida] "It's very short. It's done in the system software we have, a version that just does it for you. It runs right at the very end, just before the frame is going to be displayed. It interrupts the GPU and does this little bit of work. I don't know the exact timing of it, but it's very small. The impact of adding that in is not something that our people are worried about."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-project-morpheus-tech-interview

 

[Chumpion]

Oculus / Vive is pentile? That's fucking horrible.

All these 1st gen headsets are gonna look like paleolithic artifacts two years from now.

Also, "I told you so" w/rt to PSVR gfx capabilities. Can we stop now with the "PS3 level gfx" bullshit?

 

[Neuromancer]

And he brought back that embarrassing PSE demo. Where are the titles?

Why does he need to show upcoming titles to a room full of developers?

Anyway there's a thread on most of the PSVR titles we know of right here.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1044658

 

[icecold1983]

So what does that mean? I don't really know how the PS4 stacks up in terms of PC specs or what 60% more powerful looks like. In terms of VR graphics does that mean it will be close to PS4 level visuals, PS3 level, somewhere in between, below etc. etc.?

assuming the statement is correct, it would put it a bit faster than a 280x(7970 ghz)

Needs a bit of clarification.
I don't think they're saying the PS4 is suddenly capable of doing what a GTX 970 does.



This quote above clarifies it a bit. It seems they're saying what's running at 90 FPS on a GTX 970 should be running close to 60 FPS on a PS4 and the reprojection helps make it more suitable for VR.

If that's the case then it's not surprising me really.

What is surprising me a bit is that this then seems that this quote:



is saying the reprojection brings the overall quality experience in-line/on-par with the Vive and Rift.

a 970 only being 50% faster than a ps4 definitely has the ps4 punching well above its gpu class

 

[bitbydeath]

So if reprojection is so good then why would anyone choose to goto 90fps as opposed to 60fps and reprojecting to 120fps?

 

[Iced_Eagle]

The 3D audio is sounding more and more like a gamechanger to really sell presence.

Well binaural audio ("3D audio") isn't exactly a new technique (it actually dates back to the late 1800's), but it is key to really tricking your sense of hearing into feeling presence, yes. It basically became essential for VR because you pretty much don't want to use VR with speakers so headphones are essential (which are required to make binaural audio sound like it's intended). Plus, it is only natural that if you're really trying to trick your vision into thinking your there, you should get the other senses as well, and hearing is an obvious next step because you just need quality headphones and software/recording techniques (much easier when compared to trying to simulate touch, taste or smell!).

If you want an idea of the sort of presence binaural audio can achieve, watch this classic video with headphones and close your eyes to really feel the effect since you don't have the visual scene to tie in with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

So if reprojection is so good then why would anyone choose to goto 90fps as opposed to 60fps and reprojecting to 120fps?

The game will simply feel more responsive and smoother when running at a higher framerate. Everyone has different tolerances so it may not be a big issue to some people or some people may not notice it. I'd hope they would be able to support reprojection from arbitrary frame rates (always keep the headset running at 120Hz) so there really wouldn't be much of a reason to choose 60 over 90 unless you wanted higher visual fidelity which I'd argue is a poor choice to make when that can affect how long people can play your game due to motion sickness from subtle, nearly unconscious visual artifacts of reprojection.

Plus, reprojection starts breaking down more and more the longer you need to reproject a single frame. That's why for the Rift/Vive they simply set the frame rate at 90 and then have reprojection on top of that (though they do have higher res screens so you do need to consider bandwidth implications). Reprojection is essentially a cushion to use if you have small dips, but shouldn't be something you depend on to make your game feel smooth.

 

[DavidDesu]

Ah, I love watching these things. I think it's clear, no matter how much people want to slate it, that PSVR will do very well or itself. It is a full on complete VR system that can induce presence, the same way Rift and the Vive are. The differences between them reflect the age old console vs PC differences.

One offers higher fidelity but doesn't particularly offer anything that simply could not be done on the former. Many of the Rift/Vive games are being co developed for PSVR as well, games like Eve Valkyrie or The Assembly. All systems will have their own exclusives, and signs point to PSVR having the biggest name exclusives off the bat. GT sport and very possibly No Man's Sky (BIG IF on that one but there's evidence that something has been happening behind the scenes on it, this isn't completely pie in the sky thinking before I get shot down!).

PSVR offers presence inducing, high framerate, plug and play VR that compares with Rift and Vive, which will come in at 2 or 3 times the cost when the high spec PC needed to run them is factored in.

Also, there's going to be millions of people wakened up to VR this year, indeed next month, when they get their new S7 phones and free Gear VR. When they look into more impressive VR offerings PS4 and PSVR will be easily the most attractive option out there, long before PCVR becomes remotely affordable to most of those people. I see it doing really well.

As for porn. I think Sony need to perhaps work on this. Have a separate part of the store password locked that needs to be set up externally, via a website and confirming ID via Credit Card or something. I think they need to offer VR porn because 1. It will make them a shit load of money, 2. It will stem the tide of people choosing PC VR over PSVR for this feature alone 3. If all PCVR solutions can work with it, Sony sell 18 rated games and films on their service, then really what is the difference? Just make it a bit of a hassle to register to use it, make sure it's password protected behind a credit card or something so kids have less chance of getting into it, et voila! PSVR sells 100 million units!

 

[joecanada]

you better hope the PC community figures out the PSVR because i dont see Sony wanting to help with that endeavor

why wouldn't they make psvr somehow compatible with blu rays? in which case they could have any blu ray content...

 

[ZOONAMI]

So if reprojection is so good then why would anyone choose to goto 90fps as opposed to 60fps and reprojecting to 120fps?

Curious about this as well. Would also allow less expensive pc setups to work well.

 

[spannicus]

I see alot of parents having a problem with PSVR and porn lol. I dont think its gonna happen unless the thing gets hacked.

 

[dakun]

oh wow i hope that NASA + PSVR collaboration turns into some awesome experiences.. that's the most exciting thing to me

 

[forknknife]

Ah, I love watching these things. I think it's clear, no matter how much people want to slate it, that PSVR will do very well or itself. It is a full on complete VR system that can induce presence, the same way Rift and the Vive are. The differences between them reflect the age old console vs PC differences.

One offers higher fidelity but doesn't particularly offer anything that simply could not be done on the former. Many of the Rift/Vive games are being co developed for PSVR as well, games like Eve Valkyrie or The Assembly. All systems will have their own exclusives, and signs point to PSVR having the biggest name exclusives off the bat. GT sport and very possibly No Man's Sky (BIG IF on that one but there's evidence that something has been happening behind the scenes on it, this isn't completely pie in the sky thinking before I get shot down!).

PSVR offers presence inducing, high framerate, plug and play VR that compares with Rift and Vive, which will come in at 2 or 3 times the cost when the high spec PC needed to run them is factored in.

Also, there's going to be millions of people wakened up to VR this year, indeed next month, when they get their new S7 phones and free Gear VR. When they look into more impressive VR offerings PS4 and PSVR will be easily the most attractive option out there, long before PCVR becomes remotely affordable to most of those people. I see it doing really well.

As for porn. I think Sony need to perhaps work on this. Have a separate part of the store password locked that needs to be set up externally, via a website and confirming ID via Credit Card or something. I think they need to offer VR porn because 1. It will make them a shit load of money, 2. It will stem the tide of people choosing PC VR over PSVR for this feature alone 3. If all PCVR solutions can work with it, Sony sell 18 rated games and films on their service, then really what is the difference? Just make it a bit of a hassle to register to use it, make sure it's password protected behind a credit card or something so kids have less chance of getting into it, et voila! PSVR sells 100 million units!

Haha porn on playstation. .. I just don't see that ever happening. They'll push the dumb erotica hentai shit games with big boobies everywhere, though.

 

[bitbydeath]

Haha porn on playstation. .. I just don't see that ever happening. They'll push the dumb erotica hentai shit games with big boobies everywhere, though.

Playroom

 

[Josh378]

I want a game like Armageddon on the PSVR!!! Movie was ok, but on a vr it would be sick!

 

[forknknife]

If we're talking about first gen units sold then there's really little doubt Sony will sell the most, but "win" the VR war? Eh. First of all, it's in all the companies interest that they all do well at the moment. Second, the real explosion of VR application will not be in games at all which will put PSVR specifically at a disadvantage in the long run when we're talking about the industry as a whole. Also, who knows what will be around for second gen. Apple could swoop in all of a sudden and steal everyone's mindshare.

You make a very important point. But I think the biggest competition for Sony is Facebook because, in the end, hardware is just going to become so standardized that it won't matter and what will matter is social media and software and Facebook just keeps dominating more and more on that front. So, since Sony cannot really compete on the social media aspect, I think their strategy is to become leaders in VR content. Well, I don't know.

 

[Insane Metal]

Same story from a VR developer on Reddit:

"PSVR is extremely close to being on par with Vive and the Rift w/ a gtx970 based on the tests I've done. The team from Epic (Nick & Tom) have also stated the same in at least one of their VR Twitch streams. If your app runs at 90Hz on a PC with a gtx970 then you should be very close to 60 on the ps4. And with the 120Hz reprojection applied it's glassy smooth."

I don't believe that at all.

 

[travisbickle]

• Reconfirms that the only new hardware is the PSVR hmd itself, the rest is what's already in the market (PS4 camera, PS Move, DS4).

I'm more confident Sony will just edit the packaging for the camera and move controllers, and sell each part separately. No headset/camera packs at launch, maybe 6-12 months after.

The logistics of this are so much easier than trying to provide multiple packs with different configurations.

 

[bj00rn_]

Wow, that's a pretty impressive spin. The funny thing is, what it really means is cunningly baked into the paragraph. But look at people eating it up. Works like a charm. PR speak 101.

 

[vpance]

Marks on PS Experience demo: "Hopefully none of you were there"

lol

 

[PodcastFips]

Curious about this as well. Would also allow less expensive pc setups to work well.

He mentioned it in the video, it depends on your kind of game. There might be situations where reprojection just produces a mess (his example were objects moving close to your face).

 

[Insane Metal]

oh wow i hope that NASA + PSVR collaboration turns into some awesome experiences.. that's the most exciting thing to me

What???? NASA + PSVR??? 😲

 

[Danlord]

What???? NASA + PSVR??? ��

*cough*

http://vrfocus.com/archives/28651/nasa-fusions-mars-2030-experience-also-coming-to-psvr-and-vive/

 

[funkystudent]

the biggest issue with the move controller is the legacy mini usb cable that is a relic.

Yeah. I am still surprised they are not doing a Move 2.0 and tweaking the button layout and ergonomics and whatnot.



Do they just have a bunch of old move stock in the warehouse they want to clear?

 

[Insane Metal]

*cough*

http://vrfocus.com/archives/28651/nasa-fusions-mars-2030-experience-also-coming-to-psvr-and-vive/

Holy shit! That's awesome!!!!

I want more stuff like this! THIS is what really makes me think VR could be a huge leap forward. Not exactly games.

 

[Raylan]

Console effectively ~60% more powerful than same-spec PC (as reported by middleware providers, not Sony

PS4 a high end PC confirmed!

After seeing the Uncharted 4 story trailer..... it IS confirmed

 

[Wereroku]

I don't believe that at all.

Read the rest of the post. Basically PSVR is a much lower resolution than the other solutions so they have to push a lot fewer pixels. This lets you run games at a much lower fingerprint. It's not saying it's equal to the 970 just that it can run the same games at comparable setting.

 

[DavidDesu]

Finished the full talk. Not all that much more info than from previous ones I've seen.

That Zombie Inception concept though was fantastic. There's so much potential for brand new ideas with VR. I cannot wait to see what happens in the next few years and it's just good to know that it will be accessible enough to people like me who just cannot afford a gaming PC, and would rather not have the hassle.

The talk did touch upon that very issue and I think it cannot be understated. PC's are complicated. I know endeavours are being made to simplify it all, but I'm sorry but I just can't see all those driver issues and so on being solved any time soon. There's far too much differentiation in all the hardware available there will always be issues. VR is something you simply cannot have issues in, you can't have stuttering or frame drops because some random program operating in the background decides to interfere, or some random hardware hiccup pipes up. It brings on a poor experience. Console style plug and play is a much safer moe reliable place to do VR in.

 

[Deyjandi_Von]

Holy shit! That's awesome!!!!

I want more stuff like this! THIS is what really makes me think VR could be a huge leap forward. Not exactly games.

Yeah, I'm way more excited for VR's non-gaming applications. I know that PSVR will primarily be a gaming device (especially at the beginning), but I hope this kind of thing will get just as much attention. Bring on virtual tourism

 

[bj00rn_]

So if reprojection is so good then why would anyone choose to goto 90fps as opposed to 60fps and reprojecting to 120fps?

Because it isn't always good. Sony wisely realizes this, and thus recently recommended native 90. Why they now suddenly starts pr speak about 60 reprojected to 120 again is an example only to try to spin a comparison to native 90 970 performance.

Here's examples of artifacts from async timewarp

Async Timewarp isn't exclusive to PSVR for that matter. Its implementation in VR was basically spearheaded by Carmack and have been available on the DKs for peak shaving.

 

[notaskwid]

Haha porn on playstation. .. I just don't see that ever happening. They'll push the dumb erotica hentai shit games with big boobies everywhere, though.

There is an app in Japan for a webstore that has porn in it. Actually they already have VR porn (currently in beta).

 

[Wereroku]

Because it isn't always good. Sony wisely realizes this, and thus recently recommended native 90. Why they now suddenly starts pr speak about 60 reprojected to 120 again is an example only to try to compare it to native 90 970 performance.

Here's examples of artifacts from async timewarp

Async Timewarp isn't exclusive to PSVR for that matter. Its implementation in VR was basically spearheaded by Carmack and is available on the DKs for peak shaving.

It's probably good that they realized that 60fps is probably not good enough either. I wonder if they did some more testing and had alot of folks getting sick from just 60fps games. Would explain why they are locking it on.

 

[Sky Saw]

Finished the full talk. Not all that much more info than from previous ones I've seen.

That Zombie Inception concept though was fantastic. There's so much potential for brand new ideas with VR. I cannot wait to see what happens in the next few years and it's just good to know that it will be accessible enough to people like me who just cannot afford a gaming PC, and would rather not have the hassle.

The talk did touch upon that very issue and I think it cannot be understated. PC's are complicated. I know endeavours are being made to simplify it all, but I'm sorry but I just can't see all those driver issues and so on being solved any time soon. There's far too much differentiation in all the hardware available there will always be issues. VR is something you simply cannot have issues in, you can't have stuttering or frame drops because some random program operating in the background decides to interfere, or some random hardware hiccup pipes up. It brings on a poor experience. Console style plug and play is a much safer moe reliable place to do VR in.

Driver issues? really? Hasn't happened to me for many years. You act like consoles never have performance issues either..it seems almost every damn console game drops below target these days and it could be the same for PSVR games.

 

[generic_username]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaM2Xt0JrSU&feature=youtu.be

this still blows my mind.

 

[Shenmue]

I still really have no idea what the breakout box is.

Only question i have is would that breakout box perhaps hinder attempts by people to make custom drivers to someday get the psvr working on PC? Like does that box make it somehow more proprietary and thus harder to get working on pc?

My dream scenario is to get the psvr for ps4 but then to someday also have it working on pc so I can spare the 600 to 800 for an oculus or vive.

 

[DavidDesu]

Driver issues? really? Hasn't happened to me for many years. You act like consoles never have performance issues either..it seems almost every damn console game drops below target these days and it could be the same for PSVR games.

Except that's developer related, very little/nothing to do with esoteric stuff happening in the background that is completely out of the control of the developer, which is far worse on a random PC system than versus a console. If a developer wants consistent performance they will design it to be so. When frame drops won't make their customers physically sick then they're more likely to be liberal with what they do or don't do. With VR not making your customers physically sick is top priority, far higher than having pretty screenshots, so the games will be designed adequately so.

 

[GorillaJu]

I've posted this same thing a few times over the past few years but people constantly doubt the effects of standardized hardware that PSVR has. It's going to look better than you assume based off your experience with PC specs. I know some absolute brilliant people on the Japanese PSVR team, and they know what they're up against and what they're doing.

Sony is 100% serious about PSVR and they believe it's paramount that they take responsibility to introduce the best possible product with good software to ensure that the VR market doesn't sputter and meet an early death. I've tried all the VR products over the last few years in the offices and at shows and PSVR has always been the one that feels closest to a mainstream consumer product.

 

[Sky Saw]

Except that's developer related, very little/nothing to do with esoteric stuff happening in the background that is completely out of the control of the developer, which is far worse on a random PC system than versus a console. If a developer wants consistent performance they will design it to be so. When frame drops won't make their customers physically sick then they're more likely to be liberal with what they do or don't do. With VR not making your customers physically sick is top priority, far higher than having pretty screenshots, so the games will be designed adequately so.

That all sounds great but I have my doubts devs will actually deliver this standard. They are going to be pushing the PS4 to the limit and I expect a few cracks.

 

[TTP]

Stupid question time, could you use that box to play normal PS4 games with and effectively have it output 3D positional audio like the mixamp and other DH devices do?

What does that box actually output? Binaural?

Sorry unsure if Ive got the terms right

ps3ud0 8)

The PU box doesn't magically turn stereo audio into 3D audio (binaural, yes) by itself. It needs to be fed with real time XYZ information about the location of the sound sources in the virtual space so that it can generate the appropriate sound waves (binaural audio is still just stereo - it's the altered sound waves that trick your brain to believe it's 3D). Current PS4 games don't provide that kind of information so sound waves don't "carry" positional information.

That said, I think it is technically possible for normal PS4 games in the future to use the PU to generate binaural audio, provided the developers care about it at all.

It goes without saying you'd probably need to play with headsets plugged into the PSVR remote to enjoy binaural audio outside of VR. Unless of course it is possible to redirect processed 3D sound from the PU back into the PS4 via USB or HDMI Out so that you could enjoy it through headphones connected to the TV/PS4.

 

[lmimmfn]

Wow, that's a pretty impressive spin. The funny thing is, what it really means is cunningly baked into the paragraph. But look at people eating it up. Works like a charm. PR speak 101.

Yeah but let's not let facts get in the way of spin

 

[Lister]

Needs a bit of clarification.
I don't think they're saying the PS4 is suddenly capable of doing what a GTX 970 does.



This quote above clarifies it a bit. It seems they're saying what's running at 90 FPS on a GTX 970 should be running close to 60 FPS on a PS4 and the reprojection helps make it more suitable for VR.

If that's the case then it's not surprising me really.

What is surprising me a bit is that this then seems that this quote:



is saying the reprojection brings the overall quality experience in-line/on-par with the Vive and Rift.

Re projection is NOT exclusive to Sony VR. This is also being done on PC.

 

[Arulan]

[*]Console effectively ~60% more powerful than same-spec PC (as reported by middleware providers, not Sony).

Another quote that is likely going to be misunderstood (i.e. magic optimization).

[*]Reprojection was previously on as an option but now Sony has made it permanently on as it has no down-sides (contra keeping it off).

This is curious. Reprojection can be useful, especially for consoles, but it's not without its faults. I don't know why they're stating it has no downsides.

 

[Lister]

Jesus this thread.

It's like summer 2013 all over again. so disappointed in Sony GAF falling for it all over again.

 

[Sky Saw]

Jesus this thread.

It's like summer 2013 all over again. so disappointed in Sony GAF falling for it all over again.

make.believe

 

[vcc]

Jesus this thread.

It's like summer 2013 all over again. so disappointed in Sony GAF falling for it all over again.

A lot of hope/hype.

I think it's a given PSVR will be the worst of the platforms. Since it will also be the cheapest. You can only get so much for the money.

 

[Lister]

I'm not opposed to people being excited over PSVR. I'm sure it's going to offer up a great VR experience to console only gamers, or people who can't afford the first wave of PC VR (which is many of us - myself included).

But common, don't be falling for the same exact stuff from 2013 now. Think critically, and still be excited!