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34,000 pieces of Wii U software were sold in the UK in January (incl. NintyLand)

The words "fad", "short-sighted" and "short term" don't really apply when they refer to a business that sustained its sales domination over extremely competitive alternative products for a number of years.

Both the DS and the Wii were phenomenally successful for literally years.

Most businesses would kill for that level of sales over that period of time.

It holds up when that business falls off a cliff after 3 or 4 years and carries over to the start of the next product. Marketing solely around a gimmick can bring great success, or mediocrity. An expensive gamble that works for Nintendo even when it fails due to the strength of first party software.
 

beast786

Member
The PS4 and 720 aren't going to fare any better, IMO. The big three's hardware successors biggest enemies will not be each other so much as it will be their own preceding hardware.

I agree, but strong 3rd party support for those two can help not get software drought during launch window.
 
Is there any chance that the Wii U will be the new Virtual Boy?

There seems to be no interest for the system, many people don't even know that it exists etc etc

Now imagine what it will be like when the next Playstation and Xbox launches
 

javac

Member
The gamepad is pretty impressive, I can say that much. But the Wiiremote has such amazing potential that is still not realized. I understand that making the controller focus on "just" motion tech won't be a selling point since every device has one these days (and i'm not only talking about consoles). But a split controller design with modern motion tech will help games much more than the touch screen did. That's my input on the matter.

Yeah I also get this feeling, where I like the gamepad and where its heading, but the story of the Wiimote is still untold, its not finished and yet and has so much yet to offer, so much potential left on the table. At least I can sleep happy knowing that the Wii U still supports the old Wii motes which is better then nothing and my time with the Wii from start to finish was amazing. I guess it's time for a new controller I suppose. Maybe the next Nintendo home console will visits the concept again...

It's out in Europe so no.

Plus its not available in awesome Red! :mad:

Comes with a stand however...
 
It holds up when that business falls off a cliff after 3 or 4 years and carries over to the start of the next product. Marketing solely around a gimmick can bring great success, or mediocrity. An expensive gamble that works for Nintendo even when it fails due to the strength of first party software.

I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

I know people like to try and paint the Wii as some one off fad that Nintendo got lucky with, but all actual evidence points to the opposite; it was popular in untapped markets, it was marketed at people who chose to buy it, and it outsold the competition for a number of years.

That's the opposite of a fad, that is a considered and successful execution of a business strategy.

The fact Iwata successfully did this twice, once with the DS and once with the WiiU would suggest that he does - in fact - know what the fuck he is doing.

Your use of the word 'gimmick' - presumably talking about the WiiU controller - shows where Nintendo are failing (and where other gamers who should be the WiiUs target audience using this word reinforce this supposition); it is not a 'gimmick', it is a logical extension of the controller using tech not cheap enough to consider until now.

Now maybe this is Nintendos probblem with marketing, or maybe this is their competition using their well paid and well placed media strategies to shit up Nintendo ("Hey remember wagglelol? ITS LIKE THAT TROLLOLOLOLO") but the WiiU controller is a thing that should be self evidently an improvement for gamers, offering access to titles on console they have previously been denied.

Nintendo need to fix that first and foremost; it is not a 'gimmick'.
 

javac

Member
You're right actually. Considering what was at stake I'm thinking it was worse. Last e3 really killed the wii u hype heading towards launch.

It was like, I was soo excited. So much leading up to it. E3 2011 was different since Wii U wasn't even guaranteed to be there, but E3 2012 was built up on everything. The start with the Pikmin following Miyamoto, I was hyped. But it just dragged on and on. You know when you let someone down and they just smile, blank and empty? Yeah...
 

axisofweevils

Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Is there any chance that the Wii U will be the new Virtual Boy?

There seems to be no interest for the system, many people don't even know that it exists etc etc

Now imagine what it will be like when the next Playstation and Xbox launches

No. The Virtual Boy didn't even sell a million in its entire lifetime. The Wii U has already sold 3 times that in the first 3 months.
 

royalan

Member
The fact Iwata successfully did this twice, once with the DS and once with the WiiU would suggest that he does - in fact - know what the fuck he is doing.

Honestly, I believed this until E3 2011.

Nintendo showed great foresight with how they read the market leading up to the DS and Wii. How all of that went out of the window for Wii U is beyond me. It's literally like they tried to make lightning strike twice without taking into account any of the ways the market had changed in the last 6 or so years.

As it stands now, Nintendo accurately predicted a shift in the market, reacted appropriately, but then didn't figure out how to sustain, and thus lost all momentum when the market shifted again. To me that makes the Wii the perfect definition of a fad.
 
You're right actually. Considering what was at stake I'm thinking it was worse. Last e3 really killed the wii u hype heading towards launch.

The actual conference was marginally better than 2008. The timing and impact was definitely worse.

I really wonder just how much was pulled at the last minute.
 

ASIS

Member
You wanna know what was the worst thing about that E3? It was Nintendo's own statements before hand. Almost every comment found a response hinting at an E3 reveal. It was THE show to prove the console and the vision. Later we learned that the 3DS will have a separate conference due to the "overwhelming" Wii U news.

And then... Ugh...

Honestly, I believed this until E3 2011.

Nintendo showed great foresight with how they read the market leading up to the DS and Wii. How all of that went out of the window for Wii U is beyond me. It's literally like they tried to make lightning strike twice without taking into account any of the ways the market has changed in the last 6 or so years.

As it stands now, Nintendo accurately predicted a shift in the market, reacted appropriately, but then didn't figure out how to sustain, and thus lost all momentum when the market shifted again. To me that makes the Wii the perfect definition of a fad.

We've all had this conversation before. If you look at a console life cycle the Wii had a pretty decent one. Its no fad. The fact that Nintendo reacted poorly post 2010 has almost nothing to do with the console itself.
 
Still not advertising it, still not stocked in the vast majority of supermarket branches.

Has Nintendo fallen out with the biggest gaming retailers in the country, are said retailers no longer rolling out major new hardware nationwide at launch (ominous for everyone) or is this a bizarre tactic, Nintendo holding fire until it can roll out big games and a price cut?

Well, Game did go into administration after owing Nintendo around £30 million. The stores are still running if I'm not mistaken. It was in the news a few months back.
 
Nintendo showed great foresight with how they read the market leading up to the DS and Wii. How all of that went out of the window for Wii U is beyond me. It's literally like they tried to make lightning strike twice without taking into account any of the ways the market had changed in the last 6 or so years.

Nintendos problem is believing 'gamers' are in any way rational purchasers.
 
The meltdowns. It was almost surreal. All the hype and then nothing. First Pikmin. Old ports. Ten minutes Nintendoland.
The best was the salty attitude towards people who didn't give a crap about Nintendoland. Now the game is barely keeping afloat in all three territories.
Nintendos problem is believing 'gamers' are in any way rational purchasers.
You should replace the word "gamers" with "Wii audience" or "Casuals"(not super fond of the word). I don't see the incentives for gamers.
 

Raist

Banned
Honestly, I believed this until E3 2011.

Nintendo showed great foresight with how they read the market leading up to the DS and Wii. How all of that went out of the window for Wii U is beyond me. It's literally like they tried to make lightning strike twice without taking into account any of the ways the market had changed in the last 6 or so years.

As it stands now, Nintendo accurately predicted a shift in the market, reacted appropriately, but then didn't figure out how to sustain, and thus lost all momentum when the market shifted again. To me that makes the Wii the perfect definition of a fad.

They didn't read anything and there was no shift in the market. They themselves extended the market by their own doing. But the "classical" gaming market didn't go anywhere. If it had shifted the PS3+360 would never had sold what they did.

No. 'Casuals' (and I loathe that term) are rational consumers.
That is one of the reasons the Wii sold so well.

Rational by which standards?
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
So consumers are rational when purchasing Nintendo products, but not rational when theyre avoiding them.

Got it.
 

royalan

Member
We've all had this conversation before. If you look at a console life cycle the Wii had a pretty decent one. Its no fad. The fact that Nintendo reacted poorly post 2010 has almost nothing to do with the console itself.

I disagree with that. The Wii itself might have been an overall success, but I think the [apparent] failure of the Wii U demonstrates it was a fad in the sense that it didn't lead to a successful business model. Its success is completely self-contained.

Nintendos problem is believing 'gamers' are in any way rational purchasers.

Switch out "rational" for "mindless slogs who'll soak up any Nintendo branded product despite its perceived value" and we have a deal.

Look, I'm a fan of Nintendo, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I think they deserve to be doing better than they are. As it is right now the Wii U looks like the output of a company that has to be dragged kicking and screaming into providing experiences for its users that have become commonplace in the industry at large for almost a decade. A bare minimum effort facing a software drought that, honestly, is insulting to loyal customers who took a chance and dove in early, believing Nintendo's words when they said they wouldn't let this happen again.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Can we please stop talking about consumer rationale? It's getting us nowhere.

I imagine if Nintendo had studied it a little more indepth than they did and built their console and launch software around the consumer of 2012/13 (aka the likely owner of an impressive tablet device already), they'd be getting a little further than they are currently!
 
So consumers are rational when purchasing Nintendo products, but not rational when theyre avoiding them.

Got it.

No.

People who don't tend to buy videogames or consider themselves 'gamers' are rational.
That extends beyond Nintendo to include iOS and facebook games, as well as cross-audience appealing titles like WoW, The Sims or Football Manager.

Self-proclaimed 'gamers' are - as a group - fucking insane, and frequently buy the things they claim they don't want, while shitting on things they say they do.
 

netBuff

Member
No.

People who don't tend to buy videogames or consider themselves 'gamers' are rational.
That extends beyond Nintendo to include iOS and facebook games, as well as cross-audience appealing titles like WoW, The Sims or Football Manager.

Self-proclaimed 'gamers' are - as a group - fucking insane, and frequently buy the things they claim they don't want, while shitting on things they say they do.

You are writing worthless, unsubstantiated, gibberish.

Who cares about your definition of a "rational" purchase?
 
I just believe that Nintendo shifted focus to the 3DS to right that ship now that the 3DS has a stellar year ahead of itself it's time for Nintendo to shift focus to the Wii U.

Something I've always told my friends if you have a Nintendo console get a Nintendo handheld because until things get steady they will always shift focus back and forth to right a sinking ship.
 

netBuff

Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_choice

I would not want the job of a publisher greenlighting titles where peoples livelihoods are at stake on the result.

Meltdown in progress.

Maybe you could highlight how a random article on consumer choice theory is at all relevant to your absurd statement?

Following your logic, the lack of wider market success for the Wii U must mean not buying the system is the most rational choice (apparently, only the most hardcore Nintendo fans are buying): I can only concur with this assessment.
 

javac

Member
I imagine if Nintendo had studied it a little more indepth than they did and built their console and launch software around the consumer of 2012/13 (aka the likely owner of an impressive tablet device already), they'd be getting a little further than they are currently!

The Wii U isn't a tablet tho, see its an evolution of the standard controller. When you compare it to the DS3 and the 360 controller, it makes a lot more sense. I guess the problem is the marketing got it all wrong. The marketing makes it out to be a tablet when in fact it isn't. Its a controller that happens to have speakers, a microphone, a gryo, camera and touch-screen bundled into one that also happens to stream your games around the house.
 

ASIS

Member
I disagree with that. The Wii itself might have been an overall success, but I think the [apparent] failure of the Wii U demonstrates it was a fad in the sense that it didn't lead to a successful business model. Its success is completely self-contained.
.

That does not constitute a fad. DS, PS2, and the PSP never lent their momentum to their successors. The Wii U is hitting pretty damn low but I doubt Anything would have been different had Nintendo released it in 2011 or early 2012. The business model is not sustainable, but that is assuming that the business model Nintendo proposed back in 2006 was not a shifting one.
 
There's no denying the numbers suck.

You know what this means?

Nintendo will realise that "core" gamers haven't been hoodwinked into buying a system that boasts nothing new of note and full price old lazy ports.

The only thing that will save the system will be casual titles that captures the mass market consumers attention and dollars just like Nintendogs, Brain Training and Wii Fit did in years gone by.

So in future expect fewer "core" titles and more of the type of games that GAF hates... and price cuts.
 

ASIS

Member
I imagine if Nintendo had studied it a little more indepth than they did and built their console and launch software around the consumer of 2012/13 (aka the likely owner of an impressive tablet device already), they'd be getting a little further than they are currently!

The Wii U Gamepad was designed for Japanese households that only had one TV. That's why they felt a conosle with its own separate viewing experience would be worthwhile. It sucks, but the Wii U is no tablet, and should not be one.
 

Haribo

Banned
It's no coincidence that now most people in the UK can have access to 100mb+ broadband speeds, game sales are dying out.
 

royalan

Member
That does not constitute a fad. DS, PS2, and the PSP never lent their momentum to their successors. The Wii U is hitting pretty damn low but I doubt Anything would have been different had Nintendo released it in 2011 or early 2012. The business model is not sustainable, but that is assuming that the business model Nintendo proposed back in 2006 was not a shifting one.

Hmmm...perhaps I see your point. I still think it worthy to note that Nintendo's rise and fall in one gen with the Wii is unprecedented. Wii may not be a fad, but I hesitate to say that it was a strategic success in any area other than its inception. Nintendo had this great Eureka! moment and then completely lost it.

There's no denying the numbers suck.

You know what this means?

Nintendo will realise that "core" gamers haven't been hoodwinked into buying a system that boasts nothing new of note and full price old lazy ports.

The only thing that will save the system will be casual titles that captures the mass market consumers attention and dollars just like Nintendogs, Brain Training and Wii Fit did in years gone by.

So in future expect fewer "core" titles and more of the type of games that GAF hates... and price cuts.

...Huh? But that market hasn't been hoodwinked, either.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
The Wii U isn't a tablet tho, see its an evolution of the standard controller. When you compare it to the DS3 and the 360 controller, it makes a lot more sense. I guess the problem is the marketing got it all wrong. The marketing makes it out to be a tablet when in fact it isn't. Its a controller that happens to have speakers, a microphone, a gryo, camera and touch-screen bundled into one that also happens to stream your games around the house.

Big screen tablet form-factor, touch screen controls, multimedia functions. Its a tablet. Sure its got traditional controls to the sides of it, but there are other tablet products too. Its failing to recognise they were entering a world where Apple and Google had already blasted peoples senses into submission over the cutting edge tech in their devices littering peoples homes that lead Nintendo's new console's gimmick failing to excite the general populace.

Pack an Oculus Rift in, some entirely new haptic feedback nutty controller and more, sure, now you've got news stories and more covering this brand new way to play and the gimmick route earns its keep. Current gen graphics and convoluted tech demo secret Tag/Catch multiplayer games are unsurprisingly not getting peoples wallets twitching.
 
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