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[Thoraxes]

As someone who only plays Halo games for the campaign; thank fuck.

I didn't hate Osiris, but like, I did not care about who they were at all. If they were just relegated to a book or something with their story, that'd have been fine. I played through their stuff so I could get to the Chief sections, not knowing the game was skewed so heavily towards Osiris.

I guess I also kinda want some more closure on the stuff left open-ended from the Bear novels too.

 

[Griss]

Chief we tend to think of as kind of a vessel for your adventure rather than necessarily this major character in the universe. He’s really just your entry into the universe.

But people have become attached to him over the last fifteen years and they’ve started to sort of fill in the gaps that the character deliberately has for gameplay reasons with a genuine emotional attachment. We certainly underestimated that with Halo 5.

"The Samus Effect".

It's impossible for a character to be around for that long and not have at least some characterisation, no matter how much of a blank slate they are intended to be. And that small amount of characterisation will be latched upon by fans who create their own idea of what the character is, which becomes an idea of what the character should be. And if you try to fight that, well... good luck.

Glad they realised this, blank slate characters are shit to begin with.

 

[Detective]

Only multiplayer. And my post is in good faith. I've no interest in single player FPS, but I'm genuinely curious as to why MC is treated like a gaming cultural icon

Because he is.

 

[sam12]

Do they not get it? Do they not see the sharp drop in sales?
People are tired of Halo. Do something different Microsoft

 

[MCD]

The lack of master chief wasn't even close to being the main issue.

the story was bad, and the character development was non-existent.

I'll take a game full of complete strangers if the narrative is compelling. I loved the campaigns of ODST and Reach

This.

Halo 5 story was c-tier animu.

 

[Sir Doom]

Do they not get it? Do they not see the sharp drop in sales?
People are tired of Halo. Do something different Microsoft

Third Person open world ODST

 

[Cranster]

Do they not get it? Do they not see the sharp drop in sales?
People are tired of Halo. Do something different Microsoft

Over 5 million in sales is hardly a lack of interest.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Guys, Chief not being focused wasnt the only problem.

Although who knows, maybe this is their way of saying "We"ll fix everything"

This.
Halo 5's story had A LOT more problems than just "not enough Chief" and if they can't recognise that then I have no hope for H6's story

 

[NeOak]

This.
Halo 5's story had A LOT more problems than just "not enough Chief" and if they can't recognise that then I have no hope for H6's story

Don't get your hopes up at all.

 

[mcfrank]

But are they going to play test their boss fights and ask themselves honestly, "is this fun?" And "is this fun for the 4th time?"

 

[MANGOD]

NO MORE PROMETHEANS

 

[strikeselect]

Wish Bungie had the balls to kill off Chief in 3 so we could've been spared these redundant, pointless sequels.

 

[Cranster]

NO MORE PROMETHEANS

They are not going anywhere unless if the story demands it. So expect Prometheans in Halo 6.

 

[polyh3dron]

The story was fine IMO. The campaign just sucked is all.

 

[213372bu]

343i is so terrible and took all the wrong lessons from Bungie's games/books.

Admitting the misstep in 5 is nothing, I have no faith they'll be able to execute or follow-through with it.

 

[Grumplestiltskin]

I feel like as long as 343's approach to design indicates a lack of vision and purpose from them for the franchise it is doomed to decline. Now is the time to be bold and make their own mark on the franchise by delivering something new and exciting. Listening to the existing (and declining) fanbase will only appeal to that fanbase. If they want the franchise to grow again they need to look at ways to appeal to new people and create new fans not just continue to cash in and milk on the ones who are already there. MS needs to let 343 go big bold and give them the time and resources they need to do so (And no before you say it introducing a new enemy type is not the sort of innovation I'm talking about albeit it would certainly help if the enemy type was fun to fight against which Prometheans are not). I mean what do MS have to lose at this point? Their biggest most important IP is facing a massive decline. Do you double down on the shrinking existing userbase or swing for the fences and try to reach a new audience? I'd argue the latter is the only sensible thing to do at this point.

As someone who loved Halo 1 and Halo 2 its sad watching the franchise slowly stagnate losing more and more fans and not attracting any new ones.

 

[DecoReturns]

one kid seems to LOVE the Speedo Man... what more do they want?

...simpsons reference?

 

[Einchy]

YAY

It was honestly completely and utterly baffling that they would hype up Blue Team finally being together and then we spent 3/4ths of the game with some shitters. How did no one on the team think to themselves, "guys, I think people want to play as MC and not some cheap knock-off".

 

[ForkNetwork]

Halo 5's story had A LOT more problems than just "not enough Chief" and if they can't recognise that then I have no hope for H6's story

Exactly, Chief"s missions were the highlight, but the story was just almost broken on a fundamental level

 

[213372bu]

I feel like as long as 343's approach to design indicates a lack of vision and purpose from them for the franchise it is doomed to decline. Now is the time to be bold and make their own mark on the franchise by delivering something new and exciting. Listening to the existing (and declining) fanbase will only appeal to that fanbase. If they want the franchise to grow again they need to look at ways to appeal to new people and create new fans not just continue to cash in and milk on the ones who are already there. MS needs to let 343 go big bold and give them the time and resources they need to do so. I mean what do they have to lose at this point?

As someone who loved Halo 1 and Halo 2 its sad watching the franchise slowly stagnate losing more and more fans and not attracting any new ones.

They already tried doing that with their interpretations of the Prometheans, their take on what the story is about etc.

And it comes off like uninspired fanfics in comparison.

They need new creative/writing leads, whether they want to look back on past games or go a different direction.

 

[_woLf]

Jeez, it's almost as if Bungie ran into this EXACT same problem with Halo 2 but none of 343 writers bothered to remember that.

And please, for the love of god, no more soulless boring as fuck robot enemies with teleporting abilities and a billion health. It's. Not. Fun.

 

[CRAIG667]

Well, I loved the Halo 5 campaign and have played through it many times... I've played through all the Halo campaigns many times and for me 5 is up there with my joint faves combat evolved and 3.

I won't get any brownie points for this but the gaming community can be really toxic, as has been proven over and over. Halo 5 and many other games on all platforms have at times received way too much unjust negativity, you can't please everyone all of the time.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

This.
Halo 5's story had A LOT more problems than just "not enough Chief" and if they can't recognise that then I have no hope for H6's story

I would say it was definitely one of the biggest problems with the story.

The interesting and more emotional parts of the story involved Chief. And you only played as him for three levels.

 

[jviggy43]

Do they not get it? Do they not see the sharp drop in sales?
People are tired of Halo. Do something different Microsoft

More like a mix of people not caring and people who wanted more classic halo leaving. But those numbers are still fine and they did find a solid user base from what ive seen.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

They need to look deeper than master chief to realize what true fans want.

How about going back to the exploration based, iosolated, exotic sense of wonder that Halo 1 had?

The appeal really isn't about Chief and never was.

If anything, they need to tone down the story elements and enrich the world with mysterious lore.

 

[Grumplestiltskin]

They already tried doing that with their interpretations of the Prometheans, their take on what the story is about etc.

And it comes off like uninspired fanfics in comparison.

They need new creative/writing leads, whether they want to look back on past games or go a different direction.

Guess I was too slow with my edit anticipating this response. Adding a new enemy type isnt the sort of innovation I'm talking about. It nowhere near the level of what they need to be doing to try and attract a new audience. I truly think that 343s efforts are a result of very tight deadlines and strict budgeting more so than anything else. If they were given as much time as they want to create something new and exciting i think they could deliver something different; something that would possibly appeal to a larger wider audience and thats precisely what the IP needs at this point. At the very least its worth a shot as its better than just allowing it to stagnate and slowly wither away more and more with each new release.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I watched a lot of Halo 5.

From what I saw, the issue wasn't the lack of Chief. They've done great single player games without Chief in the past, you can do one again without him.

The issue is they have written themselves into this really, really bad lore and overarching plot. It's so boring and uninteresting and silly.

There was so much potential with just going back in time and doing some stories on the earlier years of after first contact, or even before with Chief and Blue Team doing missions fighting rebels.

 

[Einchy]

Jeez, it's almost as if Bungie ran into this EXACT same problem with Halo 2 but none of 343 writers bothered to remember that.

And please, for the love of god, no more soulless boring as fuck robot enemies with teleporting abilities and a billion health. It's. Not. Fun.

Yeah, it's really odd how they not only forgot that people hated that part of Halo 2, but they tripled down on it with Halo 5.

You didn't how half of the game wasn't chief? Well, lets make that 2 times worse!

[edit]

I didn't know Josh Holmes had left the studio. Who's the head lead now?

 

[Muskieratboi]

I actually quite liked Blue Team and Osiris. Keep the Chief for the main campaign, and then give us Spartan Ops Season 2 for the other teams!

 

[Freeman76]

These guys realise everything too late.

They dont get what made the franchise so popular. I mean, the Prometheans, what the fuck, such terribly designed and boring enemies. They dont fit with the universe at all. Too much has changed, they cant go back now...I wont be buying anymore of their Halo games.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

But guys, Frank was on NeoGaf before launch of H5 confidently stating that Chief is the main character and that it's his story! Lol

The studio's single player designers/writers are out of touch and mediocre.

Prove me wrong, but focusing on that bland oatmeal character called Locke wasn't the only issue.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Honestly, I think it's time they started to clean house a bit. Can the ones who are making the ship stink. The sales are deteriorating. Don't let the amazing legacy this world has come to know as Halo be ruined by a couple bad eggs. It's time to invest in the future and hire some new talent before everything is lost!

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Guys, Chief not being focused wasnt the only problem.

Although who knows, maybe this is their way of saying "We"ll fix everything"

They stopped reading after you said Chief


They should do a Marvel deal and have Master Chief turn out to be

In Halo 6

 

[Rymuth]

It's so fucking bizarre hearing Frank/Stinkles say this considering how much he doubled down on the story and the removal of spilt screen especially here on GAF...

He's suspiciously starting to sound like Peter Molyneux

 

[Einchy]

Big nope to all of this. Even people who already knew the Blue Team couldn't possibly love their in-game counterparts simply because there's nothing to love there, they barely qualify as characters. Random nameless marines in Old Bungie's games were better characterized than the leads of Halo 5.

Indeed.

The only reason you like Blue Team is if you read the books and you wanted to see Chief back with them, which I did so badly, and then we never actually got to spend time with them. Why even bring back Blue Team if we're not going to play with them?

 

[nekkid]

Make Halo 6 about the Chief, then release SP DLC about Osiris. Easy.

 

[GringoSuave89]

Is was a small part of what i hated about halo 5

- What about the repetitive warden fights
- What about the laughably short campaign
- What about the complete marketing lie, there was no huge chief versus osiris conflict, with the exception of 1 punch there was hardly any tension


Those are just the start of what was wrong with halo 5 single player

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

 

[213372bu]

Guess I was too slow with my edit anticipating this response. Adding a new enemy type isnt the sort of innovation I'm talking about. It nowhere near the level of what they need to be doing to try and attract a new audience. I truly think that 343s efforts are a result of very tight deadlines and strict budgeting more so than anything else. If they were given as much time as they want to create something new and exciting i think they could deliver something different; something that would possibly appeal to a larger wider audience and thats precisely what the IP needs at this point. At the very least its worth a shot as its better than just allowing it to stagnate and slowly wither away more and more with each new release.

I get what you're saying, and overall I agree, but I think 343i themselves can't execute much on their own. Their attempts at creativity are all a result of bad emulating of the past games/books. And I think it's just that, I don't think it can be boiled down to constraints considering they've been doing this for five years over two games.

Adding more importance/focus to Cortana, the weird take on Prometheans, Osiris Team, the Warden, the new take on rampant AIs etc. all seriously come off as fan fictiony.

 

[DocSeuss]

I was happy Kotaku let me write about the game:

So, to recap: all our friends are actually bad guys, we're the living embodiment of a war crime, and we don't even get to do the thing we want, because we actually have to spend most of our time trying to stop ourselves from stopping our good friend who is now bad from bringing peace to the galaxy by force.

My issue with Halo has more to do with the game's rejection of its heroic military sci-fi roots for a way less interesting attempt on a more 'grounded' narrative. Like, it goes "wait, the creation of the spartans is actually a war crime," so it makes Halsey this totally awful, irredeemable character. The tonal shift is just way too great. I gotta be mad at Cortana too, 'cause she's crazy now.

There's literally no one left to like in the Halo universe. There's nothing heroic about my actions. It's boring as hell.

Even Halo Wars 2 had this problem. Cutter gives that long, boring speech about fighting the bad guy because... he's... a bad guy, and good guys stop bad guys or something. The game doesn't work at all to establish a motive beyond "bad guys should get stopped." It sucks.

Like... there's just fundamental narrative issues at 343i and I feel like they don't know what they are.

Is was a small part of what i hated about halo 5

- What about the repetitive warden fights
- What about the laughably short campaign
- What about the complete marketing lie, there was no huge chief versus osiris conflict, with the exception of 1 punch there was hardly any tension


Those are just the start of what was wrong with halo 5 single player

How about the incredibly boring level AND encounter design and difficulty tuning that favors staying in cover to running around murdering stuff, which is why Halo is so dang fun?

I can't believe I'm saying it, but I wish 343i would learn some lessons from DOOM for encouraging player aggression and Dead Space 2 for encounter variety.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

343i is so terrible and took all the wrong lessons from Bungie's games/books.

Admitting the misstep in 5 is nothing, I have no faith they'll be able to execute or follow-through with it.

Hogwash. Halo 5 was a good game.

 

[nekkid]

Hogwash. Halo 5 was a good game.

So was the Halo 4 campaign. It's great, actually.

 

[DocSeuss]

So was the Halo 4 campaign. It's great, actually.

what the fuck.

Halo 4's campaign is one of the worst shooter campaigns I've ever played, and I've played Darkest of Days, Dreamkiller, and fucking Killzone 2.

 

[Grumplestiltskin]

I get what you're saying, and overall I agree, but I think 343i themselves can't execute much on their own. Their attempts at creativity are all a result of bad emulating of the past games/books.

I don''t think it has to deal with constraints but a lack of creativity.

Adding more importance/focus to Cortana, the weird take on Prometheans, Osiris Team, the Warden, the take on rampant AIs etc. all seriously come off as fan fictiony.

I prefer to hold onto some hope that 343 could impress if given ample enough opportunity simply because the alternative is to accept that there is no hope for the IP and the future of the IP would be grim indeed. So here's hoping they prove you wrong.

 

[nekkid]

what the fuck.

Halo 4's campaign is one of the worst shooter campaigns I've ever played, and I've played Darkest of Days, Dreamkiller, and fucking Killzone 2.

"What the fuck"?

Even if you disagree, that unnecessary exclamation makes your opinion worthless.

 

[213372bu]

I was happy Kotaku let me write about the game:



My issue with Halo has more to do with the game's rejection of its heroic military sci-fi roots for a way less interesting attempt on a more 'grounded' narrative. Like, it goes "wait, the creation of the spartans is actually a war crime," so it makes Halsey this totally awful, irredeemable character. The tonal shift is just way too great. I gotta be mad at Cortana too, 'cause she's crazy now.

There's literally no one left to like in the Halo universe. There's nothing heroic about my actions. It's boring as hell.

Even Halo Wars 2 had this problem. Cutter gives that long, boring speech about fighting the bad guy because... he's... a bad guy, and good guys stop bad guys or something. The game doesn't work at all to establish a motive beyond "bad guys should get stopped." It sucks.

Like... there's just fundamental narrative issues at 343i and I feel like they don't know what they are.



How about the incredibly boring level AND encounter design and difficulty tuning that favors staying in cover to running around murdering stuff, which is why Halo is so dang fun?

I can't believe I'm saying it, but I wish 343i would learn some lessons from DOOM for encouraging player aggression and Dead Space 2 for encounter variety.

I totally agree with this post, I'll get around to reading your article sometime.

I prefer to hold onto some hope that 343 could impress if given ample enough opportunity simply because the alternative is to accept that there is no hope for the IP and the future of the IP would be grim indeed. So here's hoping they prove you wrong.

I agree, I really hope I'm wrong and they pull it around for 6.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

what the fuck.

Halo 4's campaign is one of the worst shooter campaigns I've ever played, and I've played Darkest of Days, Dreamkiller, and fucking Killzone 2.

What's so crazy about thinking that Halo 4 has a great campaign?

People may have had problems with the way the story was presented. Besides that, most saw it as a great Halo campaign.

 

[DocSeuss]

"What the fuck"?

Even if you disagree, that unnecessary exclamation makes your opinion worthless.

My opinion is worthless because I'm genuinely surprised at your beliefs?

Surprise doesn't render an argument invalid. You could have been much more effective by pointing out that I didn't make an argument with you.

What's so crazy about thinking that Halo 4 has a great campaign?

People may have had problems with the way the story was presented. Besides that, most saw it as a great Halo campaign.

Because it's one of the worst campaigns I've ever seen in a shooter, in terms of everything from tuning to enemy design (none of the new enemies were good or fun to fight!) to narrative to pacing in the narrative, to encounters to just... basic level design? It's one of those games I've been planning to write about forever, but I just got done writing about Mad Max and now I gotta write about a couple other games, so it's gonna be a while before I get to it.

And "most saw it as a great Halo campaign," I'm sorry, what kind of revisionist history is this?

 

[nekkid]

What's so crazy about thinking that Halo 4 has a great campaign?

People may have had problems with the way the story was presented. Besides that, most saw it as a great Halo campaign.

As a fan of the lore I didn't mind that, but I can see why people were confused by it.

That aside it played very well and had great set pieces. The Prometheans were a lot more fun than in 5 as well.

My opinion is worthless because I'm genuinely surprised at your beliefs?

You're surprised that I thought a campaign in a game that has a very positive review trend is great?

Still, saying "what the fuck" like it's absolutely unthinkable just makes you sound like a douche.

 

[Black Mantis]

I liked H5, but didn´t see the point of including Osiris as a playable team in a mainline Halo. Keep that stuff for ODST/Reach type of titles.

 

[Einchy]

I liked H5, but didn´t see the point of including Osiris as a playable team in a mainline Halo. Keep that stuff for ODST/Reach type of titles.

Halo 6 will open up Star Wars style.

"HALO: EPISODE 6

Everyone in Osiris dead off-screen. You're welcome"