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[snatches]

Slim PS2s and the PSP are both one year.
http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/Warranties#70000
The original PS2 models, and PSone were 90 days.

The PS3 will definitely be 1 year also.

that is good news. I had no idea they had extended the warranty for ps2 slim.

 

[PleoMax]

I think what you need to do is stop giving a damn about graphics. Care about the games and the experiences avaliable on 360. Who cares in PS3 offers slightly more detailed buildings than 360? It's all about the games.

Look, its all about the games, but if i can get the same game on either system and one version looks better than the other i'm going with that version.

The only prob i have is that, shit, Ms is the biggest company around, yet they were kinda conservative with the 360.

Bottom line is...it wasn't long before launch that the 360 was only using 256 MB of ram, and it was the devs that made MS go with 512 MB. I mean...shit Ms, wtf.

Again its bad for them not for me, once again i will have both systems, but the problem isn't ppl like me, is the gamers who only buy one system, last gen you could allways hear "Yeah but the xbox graphics trounce that shit", but now what? "Hey we have GTA at the sametime as you now bitches" lol who cares if GTA for the PS3 looks better?

MS put too much stock behind the "1st to the gate has the best chances". Imo MS has to drop the price early next year for their own sake. Things aren't looking good, i see devs excited about the PS3, i don't see devs excited about the 360, thats the problem.

 

[StevieP]

the 360 is experiencing a 5% breakdown rate. sony provides a 90 day warranty on ps2. I would expect the same from the ps3.

and you are correct about the cost of Live. until sony proves otherwise it is worth every penny.

If you believe Microsoft, it's 5%. If you believe reality, it's likely at least triple that. I don't remember this many reports of broken consoles since the first run of PS2.

My PSTwo came with 1 year warranty, and all Nintendo products have come with 1 year as well. Has Sony even mentioned what the PS3 warranty will be? I'm hoping it's more than 90 days, because that level of warranty shows exactly how confident you are in the longetivity of your product and makes me less likely to purchase it.

I have never, ever seen a consumer goods manufacturer offer free repairs to the extent that MS is. Ever.

My brother's GBA fell and cracked the screen 5 months after its warranty was up. Nintendo fixed it for free - and this is not an uncommon occurance. I got a brand new DS Lite exchanged for 1 stuck pixel... in the corner. MS, right now, is trying to prevent a class action lawsuit.

 

[elostyle]

Nintendo must be happy to not have these problems.

 

[Bad_Boy]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3866&Itemid=2

listen, I have spent 13 years in the consumer electronics industry and I can tell you first hand that this type of first-run failure percentage is totally expected, but MS response isn't. I have never, ever seen a consumer goods manufacturer offer free repairs to the extent that MS is. Ever.

read it again. it says "ORGINALLY" it was 3% ...the whole article is about microsoft recognizing the number was higher than orginally stated.

Microsoft originally said that the failure rate was between 3 and 5 percent, an acceptable range. Higher failure rates for the first batch of complex new electronics such as game consoles are common.

they said 3%-5% long before that article.

 

[snatches]

If you believe Microsoft, it's 5%. If you believe reality, it's likely at least triple that. I don't remember this many reports of broken consoles since the first run of PS2.

My PSTwo came with 1 year warranty, and all Nintendo products have come with 1 year as well. Has Sony even mentioned what the PS3 warranty will be? I'm hoping it's more than 90 days, because that level of warranty shows exactly how confident you are in the longetivity of your product and makes me less likely to purchase it.

exactly, the first run is always plagued with higher defect rates with all consumer goods.

 

[sugarhigh4242]

read it again. it says "ORGINALLY" it was 3% ...the whole article is about microsoft recognizing the number was higher than orginally stated.


they said 3%-5% long before that article.

yeah, i was just going to make this exact post.

That's a beautiful omission.

 

[StevieP]

exactly, the first run is always plagued with higher defect rates with all consumer goods.

My Gamecube was purchased launch day. So was my NES. I haven't had a single problem. MS' defect rate is far higher than 5% - they're STILL having problems with recently produced consoles, if you read the appropriate thread.

 

[sugarhigh4242]

My Gamecube was purchased launch day. So was my NES. I haven't had a single problem.

i don't think anyone disputes Nintendo's record on console reliability. they really should be commended for that.

 

[snatches]

yeah, i was just going to make this exact post.

That's a beautiful omission.

its funny how all the sony fans pointing out the 360 defect rate are forgetting Sony's terrible track record with faulty hardware. give it up already. it's not a point of distinction now and it never will be. and it surely shouldn't influence anyone's decision on whether to buy or not buy a console.

 

[Bad_Boy]

its funny how all the sony fans pointing out the 360 defect rate are forgetting Sony's terrible track record with faulty hardware. give it up already. it's not a point of distinction now and it never will be. and it surely shouldn't influence anyone's decision on whether to buy or not buy a console.

nobody is saying sony is perfect, I was just pointing out your error thats all.

 

[Tieno]

My Gamecube was purchased launch day. So was my NES. I haven't had a single problem. MS' defect rate is far higher than 5% - they're STILL having problems with recently produced consoles, if you read the appropriate thread.

How are you extrapolating those numbers?

 

[sugarhigh4242]

its funny how all the sony fans pointing out the 360 defect rate are forgetting Sony's terrible track record with faulty hardware. give it up already. it's not a point of distinction now and it never will be. and it surely shouldn't influence anyone's decision on whether to buy or not buy a console.

PSP was my first Sony console. I can't speak to prior systems.

The point is you obviously omitted a key part of the quote.

 

[snatches]

nobody is saying sony is perfect, I was just pointing out your error thats all.

I wasn't referring to you're post, more like the posts that acousticvan was making in the last page saying that the 360 defect rate is part of the "secret cost of ownership".

 

[StevieP]

i don't think anyone disputes Nintendo's record on console reliability. they really should be commended for that.

That's my point. It IS possible to build a console that doesn't break like bitches on its first run... or any run. Even the initial batch of DS Lites with overtightened hinges - which was only cosmetic - were taken care of immediately by Nintendo. It took Microsoft like 9 months to acknowledge that their launch batches of 360 were made shoddily.

its funny how all the sony fans pointing out the 360 defect rate are forgetting Sony's terrible track record with faulty hardware. give it up already. it's not a point of distinction now and it never will be. and it surely shouldn't influence anyone's decision on whether to buy or not buy a console.

Sony's hardware track record is just as terrible as Microsoft's current track record with the 360. That's why I would never purchase Sony launch hardware. The original XBox was nowhere near as shit-prone as the 360, though, and that has now made me nervous about purchasing Microsoft hardware as well. Of course it hinders my purchase decision... now, the absolute EARLIEST I will purchase a 360 is when they get their cooler CPU models out. The fact that it only comes with a 90 day warranty is absolute garbage, and it is only bolstered by the fact that noone in their right mind would recommend you a 360 purchase without the extra $60 warranty. The base price of a 360, in other words, is $400 (warranty + memory card) for the Core, and $460 for the Premium, if you want any sort of piece of mind. It shouldn't be this way!

 

[Bebpo]

The last time I saw Project 8 (in Leipzig) it was trying to run at 60 fps on the 360. It had some major slowdowns, but considering it was a very early version I'd say it's likely the final game will run at a smooth 60 fps.

Thanks for the info

I'll go for the 360 version then since it's the same thing with online play + rumble.

 

[acousticvan]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3866&Itemid=2

listen, I have spent 13 years in the consumer electronics industry and I can tell you first hand that this type of first-run failure percentage is totally expected, but MS response isn't. I have never, ever seen a consumer goods manufacturer offer free repairs to the extent that MS is. Ever.

I think you have wasted your 13 years of experience.
because you forgot to separate facts from fiction.

You cited the failure rate of the ps2 is 7% from the consumer report, which is true. "FACT"
and the failure rate of the X360 is 5% from ms, who can put up any number they like. "FICTION"

 

[sugarhigh4242]

That's my point. It IS possible to build a console that doesn't break like bitches on its first run... or any run. Even the initial batch of DS Lites with overtightened hinges - which was only cosmetic - were taken care of immediately by Nintendo. It took Microsoft like 9 months to acknowledge that their launch batches of 360 were made shoddily.

Too be fair, Nintendo tends to build far less bleeding-edge hardware than their competitors.

 

[jarosh]

my pokemans.

let me show you them.

 

[StevieP]

Too be fair, Nintendo tends to build far less bleeding-edge hardware than their competitors.

The Gamecube decimated the PS2 hardware-wise, though it was still far more reliable. The N64 was more powerful than the PS1, yet far more reliable. Only recently (DS, Wii) have they been building hardware that isn't as powerful. Though, still containing unproven technology. Point is, it's possible for any hardware division to build reliable hardware with some effort. Sony, I don't trust anymore at launch. Microsoft, they have lost some trust as well. For me, Wii at launch, 360 MAYBE next year, and PS3 2008-2009? Solely based on hardware trust and available titles.

 

[sugarhigh4242]

The Gamecube decimated the PS2 hardware-wise, though it was still far more reliable. The N64 was more powerful than the PS1, yet far more reliable. Only recently (DS, Wii) have they been building hardware that isn't as powerful. Though, still containing unproven technology.

if i recall it was disc-related problems with PSone and PS2. I've never heard of either system overheating or otherwise dying outright. All the stories i've heard have been related to disc-reading problems.

 

[snatches]

I think you have wasted your 13 years of experience.
because you forgot to separate facts from fiction.

You cited the failure rate of the ps2 is 7% from the consumer report, which is true. "FACT"
and the failure rate of the X360 is 5% from ms, who can put up any number they like. "FICTION"

what. I said the average failure rate of consumer electronics in general is 7%. and my point, as I have made clear, is defect rate for Sony and MS hardware should be the last thing you include as "hidden" costs. as you did, most ridiculously.

kthxbye.

 

[snatches]

:lol

 

[elostyle]

Too be fair, Nintendo tends to build far less bleeding-edge hardware than their competitors.

This is the first time.

if i recall it was disc-related problems with PSone and PS2. I've never heard of either system overheating or otherwise dying outright. All the stories i've heard have been related to disc-reading problems.

Never seen any of the infamous Playstation kiosks that the system turned upside down?

 

[PhoenixDark]

lol none of them are 1080p on ps3 man. they are only upscaled. to get a game running at 1080p you would have to cut the framerate to liek 10fps or you would have to cut down the poly count a ton and then at that point it's not even worth it.

720p will be the native res for games on this generation. ps3 isn't even capable of handling 30fps 1080p native games. every thing would have to be 8 TIMES BIGGER nativley lol and games don't even hit 60fps on 360 for the most part man......


I work at a company that is merely developing a built in upcompressor so that you can say it's 1080p on the box of the game. it's all marketing BS. no one is claiming they are NATIVE 1080p at 30fps.

 

[acousticvan]

what. I said the average failure rate of consumer electronics in general is 7%. and my point, as I have made clear, is defect rate for Sony and MS hardware should be the last thing you include as "hidden" costs. as you did, most ridiculously.

kthxbye.

You said the failure rate of the X360 is 5% according to ms, which is not true. It's more like 20% or more.
The high percentage will force people into buying the warranty and that's the hidden cost.
Not just that, $50 a year for Live is lame. That's another hidden cost.

 

[Tieno]

You said the failure rate of the X360 is 5% according to ms, which is not true. It's more like 20% or more.
The high percentage will force people into buying the warranty and that's the hidden cost.
Not just that, $50 a year for Live is lame. That's another hidden cost.

Where are you getting that 20% number from?

 

[jarosh]

You said the failure rate of the X360 is 5% according to ms, which is not true. It's more like 20% or more.

my mom says it's actually 50%

 

[snatches]

You said the failure rate of the X360 is 5% according to ms, which is not true. It's more like 20% or more.
The high percentage will force people into buying the warranty and that's the hidden cost.
Not just that, $50 a year for Live is lame. That's another hidden cost.

The first part of that bolded part is what the corporation that manufacturs the console has stated. The second part is a sad, sad, fanboy fantasy. The cost of an extended warranty should be factored in to a Sony hardware purchase as well, if you are inclined to buying them, which many have pointed out. There is a high defect rate on "first run" consoles. That's it. It was common with PS1's and PS2's as well. Not so much with Xbox 1 due to the use of off the shelf PC parts that had already passed muster.

Your Live comment I have already responded to 3 times. If you need it again, I'll say it. I hope Sony creates a service on par with Live for free. It would force MS to stop charging for Live. Until that happens I think it is worth every penny, as do most XB users. Which you are not so you can't really comment, can you?

 

[StevieP]

The first part of that bolded part is what the corporation that manufacturs the console has stated. The second part is a sad, sad, fanboy fantasy. The cost of an extended warranty should be factored in to a Sony hardware purchase as well, if you are inclined to buying them, which many have pointed out. There is a high defect rate on "first run" consoles. That's it. It was common with PS1's and PS2's as well. Not so much with Xbox 1 due to the use of off the shelf PC parts that had already passed muster.

Your Live comment I have already responded to 3 times. If you need it again, I'll say it. I hope Sony creates a service on par with Live for free. It would force MS to stop charging for Live. Until that happens I think it is worth every penny, as do most XB users. Which you are not so you can't really comment, can you?

To be fair, while he's likely taking a complete shot in the dark with the 20% number... if you don't think MS is lying through their teeth about 5% (and that the number is certainly higher than 10% at the absolute least), you've probably got your own "fanboy fantasies" as you put them. The only people that know the true number is Microsoft, and they're certainly not going to publish them. Their recent avoidal of a class-action by offering free 2005-built 360 repairs should signal this fact to you.

 

[Cosmozone]

Point is, it's possible for any hardware division to build reliable hardware with some effort.

That's true although I don't think it has anything to do with effort but with quality control. You can have different standards on deciding if you're letting a manufactured chip/device pass or reject it. Furthermore the more expensive the technology, the more a reject hurts you. Think about throwing away a complete Cell or Bluray drive just because it's only 99% reliable instead of 100%.

 

[acousticvan]

And I think you are deluding yourself somehow if you think this "hidden cost of ownership" somehow only applies to the 360. You honestly think the overall failure rate is 15% (edit: Now you think it's 20%?? Good god:lol )? You're out of your ****ing mind. It has indeed gone higher than 5%, which prompted MS to offer free repairs for those units (Not all, mind you, only those manufactured within a SELECT period. HMMMM.)--a measure that, surprisingly, DIDN'T require a class-action lawsuit like certain companies in the past.

I've got news for you: You run the risk of being burned in purchasing a system at launch. Especially when you are dealing with cutting-edge technology, as well as a corporate powerhouse chugging these things out as fast as they can to meet demand. And last I checked, MS and Sony were in the same boat.

From my own personal experience as a corporate cog at 3 stores in 2 regions, within the first year of EVERY console launch, you tended to have a high defect rate. Of the systems that were released during my tenure, the PS2 had by far the highest number of defective units in my region (to the point where, yes, we had corporate decrees instructing us to issue Sony's 1-800 number in the event we ran out of new replacement units. This was 2 years after launch, long after the initial hardware supply shortage had been rectified). At the opposite end of the spectrum was the gamecube, with quarterly defect-replacement quotas in the single digits. Did this have any tangible effect on the sales of either of these consoles? not hardly.

They do have a class action suite pending, my friend.

 

[snatches]

They do have a class action suite pending, my friend.

did you stop reading there? you could try responding to the rest of the post.

 

[acousticvan]

Right. we'll see what becomes of it, buddy. :lol

It's not really uncommon for a lone nut to get his name in the tech news because he has a beef with MS. In addition, the allegations he has made weren't an issue of manufacturing, but rather, he has actually suggested negligent design decisions, and that the system was never 'stress tested,' when, in fact, we know full well it was. We'll see how long it lasts.

Why didn't you ask " what started it"?

 

[Y2Kev]

I don't think you dudes know how high 15 (20???)% is. 20% indicates 1 in 5 consoles is broken, which just isn't the case. Remember where we are and notice how that influences the complaining about broken consoles.

 

[Cuth]

I'm the only one who think it's "interesting" how 1 year ago a good amount of attention was on anti-aliasing and now it seems completely shifted to 1080p?

I'm still trying to understand which PS3 games use AA and which not, because all I read everytime is only if they are in 1080p or not.

I wonder if the "best case" situation for games is 1080p no AA for PS3 and 720p + 4xAA for the Xbox360... In that hypothetical situation, the "winner" is debatable, IMHO.

 

[acousticvan]

I don't think you dudes know how high 15 (20???)% is. 20% indicates 1 in 5 consoles is broken, which just isn't the case. Remember where we are and notice how that influences the complaining about broken consoles.

Most of my friends have problems with X360 that's enough to tell you the percentage.

 

[snatches]

Most of my friends have problems with X360 that's enough to tell you the percentage.

:lol :lol :lol

18 of my coworkers have 360's and not one has broken. so the defect rate is 0%. dodged a bullet there.

 

[RavenFox]

Why didn't you ask " what started it"?

Because damage control is alive and kicking.

 

[acousticvan]

Right-o! because when a fanboy pulls a 20% failure rate out of his ass, that's alot of damage to control :lol

I'll say it once more, a bit slower for you: In console launches all things remain equal. manufacturing difficulties, hardware defects, and the like. Things are just as likely to be blown out of proportion as they are to get swept under the rug. Accept it. deal with it. Or don't buy that shiny new machine in the first 6 months of its life.

If the X360 is so reliable why don't they up the duration of the warranty to at least 6 months so we don't have to complain and be happy ever after.

 

[J-Rzez]

read it again. it says "ORGINALLY" it was 3% ...the whole article is about microsoft recognizing the number was higher than orginally stated.


they said 3%-5% long before that article.

Even I have to admit, that was sneaky to have left out the "Microsoft stated" part... :lol That's a real stealth tactic there because it would instantly flag ppl "Of course MS would say that" responses... :lol

I'm calling BS on that MS number... I've owned just about every damn console and most at launch, the 360 was the first I bought a couple months later... and guess what? E-68 errors... It's the only console I ever had trouble with... ever... not the NES, Atari 2600, Jaguar, Neo-Geo, Sega CD, PSone and 2, SNES, not even the Xbox (just to name a few)... Now, with so many ppl crying out about their 360's dying, more than I've ever heard/read/seen articles in the media about this, and that 90-day warranty that I'm using personally, I'm going to state that the 360 is the most unreliable console to date... I would expect, if tracked from an "outside" source, higher than 5%... MS wouldn't lie though, would they?

 

[jarosh]

Most of my friends have problems with X360 that's enough to tell you the percentage.

HOLY SHIT

 

[CabbageRed]

If the X360 is so reliable why don't they up the duration of the warranty to at least 6 months so we don't have to complain and be happy ever after.

Exactly, but infallible logic is lost on the [x]DF'ers. It is great that you try, but on NeoGa the highroad you've choosen is also a lonely one.

 

[acousticvan]

Good lord. I do believe the boy has lost his mind. :lol

they extended the warranties for all systems manufactured before January 1st to ONE YEAR.

In addition, you will be hard pressed to find ANY American hi-end electronics with more than a 90-day warranty, as that there is no explicitly stated minimum duration in the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which governs our warranty law, for a limited warranty.

So why does the psp have longer warranty?

 

[acousticvan]

It depends: what does that warranty cover? Think about it.

what do you know?

 

[Speevy]

acousticvan, I realize you have difficulty conveying your thoughts sometimes. But seriously, stop bashing the Xbox 360. It make the forum a worse place to view.

Anyway, when do we get the first side-by-side videos (IGN-style) of two same games, releasing at the same time, running? It will be interesting to see how the developers are taking advantage of PS3.

Those with Xbox 360s have nothing to be ashamed of just as much as PS2 owners didn't. A game system is measured by the quality and depth of its library when all is said and done. There are things I've seen on the Xbox that weren't even attempted on the PS2, yet the PS2 has twice the game library.

Not only this, but people forget that this is a two-horse race for traditional consoles. No publisher (in the West) can afford to screw either.

Also, the Xbox 360 has had effectively a 1 year warranty for launch buyers, which represent the majority of dead consoles I'm sure.

 

[acousticvan]

I'll give you a hint


just a hint:

ready?

The dead pixels are not defects. If you don't get it then I give up.

 

[Speevy]

The dead pixels are not defects. If you don't get it then I give up.

They give the PSP character?

 

[Raistlin]

The Gamecube decimated the PS2 hardware-wise, though it was still far more reliable. The N64 was more powerful than the PS1, yet far more reliable. Only recently (DS, Wii) have they been building hardware that isn't as powerful. Though, still containing unproven technology. Point is, it's possible for any hardware division to build reliable hardware with some effort. Sony, I don't trust anymore at launch. Microsoft, they have lost some trust as well. For me, Wii at launch, 360 MAYBE next year, and PS3 2008-2009? Solely based on hardware trust and available titles.

Decimated? That is some nice hyperbole.


Regardless, you are conveniently forgetting some important information when comparing N64 vs PSX, and NGC versus PS2.

For N64 you must factor in that it did not have a CD-ROM (which was the major component that failed in the PSX) ... but also the fact it released later. Even though it was more powerful, it was less cutting-edge at it's time.

Similarly, the NGC launched WELL after the PS2. Again, it was less cutting-edge at its time.


Those facts cannot be ignored, and have a BIG influence on failure rates.

 

[acousticvan]

:lol

<----and they say I'm cuckoo?

Not they but all major electronics manufacturers.