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After 27 years, Pioneer halts Laserdisc players production

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XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Until DVD came around, there was no other option for the serious videophile.

ANN:
Pioneer Stops Making Laserdisc Players After 27 Years
posted on 2009-01-14 23:57 EST

Former subsidiary PIONEER LDC became Pioneer/Geneon Entertainment

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The electronics company Pioneer has announced on Wednesday that it is ending production of its laserdisc players after 27 years. Laserdiscs were the spiritual 30-centimeter (12-inch) wide ancestors to today's CDs, DVDs, and Blu-ray Discs. The assembly lines will shut down after the final 3,000 players in four models (the DVD-compatible DVL-919, the CD-compatible CLD-R5, and the karaoke-capable DVK-900 and DVL-K88).

Pioneer and laserdiscs have a long intertwined history with anime. In an effort to create titles for the format, Pioneer financed the establishment of the Laserdisc Corporation in March 1981, and it shipped its first players in October of that same year. The Laserdisc Corporation was renamed Pioneer LDC in 1989, and it shipped its first original video anime, Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki, in 1992. PIONEER LDC eventually became Pioneer Entertainment before being acquired by the Japanese advertising firm Dentsu under the new name Geneon Entertainment in 2003. Dentsu announced last November that is transferring its majority ownership in Geneon Entertainment to NBC Universal's Universal Pictures International Entertainmnent.

At the time, laserdiscs offered anime titles two main advantages that the competing VHS videotape format did not offer: soundtracks in multiple languages and higher resolution. Until the advent of DVDs in the late 1990s, many distributors on Japan and North America shipped anime on both laserdisc and VHS formats. Pioneer sold 3.6 million laserdisc players in Japan alone.

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SUPREME1

Banned
Pioneer is the the f*cking bomb ass electronics company. You should go to their site and look around, they still make plenty of HiFi tape decks too.

R.I.P. - Laser Disk
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Three fun facts:

- As a format, Laserdisc is older than Compact Disc.

- Laserdisc may be optical, but it's not digital. It's analog using a pulse FM carrier, with the exception of the PCM digital audio track used alongside the left and right analog audio tracks.

- Dolby Digital was implemented by modulating it(hence AC3 format) and putting it on one of the analog audio tracks.
 
Hitokage said:
Three fun facts:

- As a format, Laserdisc is older than Compact Disc.

- Laserdisc may be optical, but it's not digital. It's analog using a pulse FM carrier, with the exception of the PCM digital audio track used alongside the left and right analog audio tracks.

- Dolby Digital was implemented by modulating it(hence AC3 format) and putting it on one of the analog audio tracks.

-Great coasters for when you invite your family and friends over.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Hitokage said:
- As a format, Laserdisc is older than Compact Disc.
I always thought this was common knowledge? Either I'm starting to get old, or my family was always just a bit more techy than everyone else.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
XiaNaphryz said:
I always thought this was common knowledge? Either I'm starting to get old, or my family was always just a bit more techy than everyone else.
I dunno, GAF seems to have a bunch of people who started gaming on a Nintendo 64 so I thought it was worth mentioning.
 

Crag Dweller

aka kindbudmaster
Wasn't there two competing laserdisc formats back in the day? I seem to recall one kind that you inserted case and all into the player and one that you didn't. Maybe one made by RCA and the other Pioneer? Its been awhile so my memory isn't too clear.
 

btkadams

Member
Hitokage said:
I dunno, GAF seems to have a bunch of people who started gaming on a Nintendo 64 so I thought it was worth mentioning.
gaf seem to have started with dreamcast and ps2 IMO.
 

CTLance

Member
Man, I remember wanting one of those bad-ass LD decks. All for "teh Anime", as expected.
Thankfully they were so grossly overpriced that making do with a bunch of VHS tapes and fansub swap meetings was good enough for a penniless bum like me. Getting a RC0 DVD player a few years later saved me a whole lot of money.
 

NekoFever

Member
I still have my Pioneer Laserdisc player here. It can switch sides of the disc itself, which means that when it reaches the end of one side you have a minute of whirring and grinding noises before it starts playing the other side, since no one realised that it's actually much quicker to do it yourself.

Still love it, though. In those pre-DVD days it was by far the best way to watch movies.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
NekoFever said:
I still have my Pioneer Laserdisc player here. It can switch sides of the disc itself, which means that when it reaches the end of one side you have a minute of whirring and grinding noises before it starts playing the other side, since no one realised that it's actually much quicker to do it yourself.
Yeah, but you had to get up...
 
Crag Dweller said:
Wasn't there two competing laserdisc formats back in the day? I seem to recall one kind that you inserted case and all into the player and one that you didn't. Maybe one made by RCA and the other Pioneer? Its been awhile so my memory isn't too clear.

I think it was just two different ways to load the disc. Some used those cartridges that you put the disc inside, while others accepted them sans cartridge. Early CD-ROM drives on computers had similar loading mechanisms.
 

Crag Dweller

aka kindbudmaster
Kung Fu Jedi said:
I think it was just two different ways to load the disc. Some used those cartridges that you put the disc inside, while others accepted them sans cartridge. Early CD-ROM drives on computers had similar loading mechanisms.

That must be it. I only knew one person that had a laserdisc player so my knowledge of them is almost nil.
 
Time to bundle up all the laserdiscs we can and leave them next to dumpsters so we can match the future shown in Back to the Future Part II.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Wow ... was an impressive run given who few units really sold. It's great they supported it this long; so many good collector's editions, etc. for it haven't been matched by their DVD counterparts.



I'll tip a shot of 1800 when I get home.
 

bionic77

Member
XiaNaphryz said:
They're the same size as a full vinyl record.
Like I said it has been a long time since I used one of these (and they were pretty bad ass except for the disc switching), but I remember them being almost the size of a standard large pizza.

Obviously it is just my memory exaggerating things again.
 
A medical professor at the school I used to work at used these all the time. I would help her set them up and be amazed at A) the technology and B) the fact someone still used it.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
dream said:
Sigh, my Criterion edition of The Game succumbed to laser rot. :(
I wonder how prevalent rot issues will be for current existing CDs/DVDs/BRs in 10-20 years from now.
 

Zachack

Member
Kung Fu Jedi said:
I think it was just two different ways to load the disc. Some used those cartridges that you put the disc inside, while others accepted them sans cartridge. Early CD-ROM drives on computers had similar loading mechanisms.
While I never saw one, I was told that there was another format that doubled the amount of space required for a movie (so a movie on one LD would require 2 on this version) but allowed the player to pause with the image on screen (the idea was that you doubled the information so the disc or laser or something could move back and forth two the two images and display them; supposedly the image clarity was amazing for back then). Not sure if this was actually true, though.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Zachack said:
While I never saw one, I was told that there was another format that doubled the amount of space required for a movie (so a movie on one LD would require 2 on this version) but allowed the player to pause with the image on screen (the idea was that you doubled the information so the disc or laser or something could move back and forth two the two images and display them; supposedly the image clarity was amazing for back then). Not sure if this was actually true, though.
Absolutely true. It was CAV format, where each ring of data on the disc carried a single discrete frame. The other format was CLV, which had a long string of video spiraling out from the center and stored more.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Zachack said:
While I never saw one, I was told that there was another format that doubled the amount of space required for a movie (so a movie on one LD would require 2 on this version) but allowed the player to pause with the image on screen (the idea was that you doubled the information so the disc or laser or something could move back and forth two the two images and display them; supposedly the image clarity was amazing for back then). Not sure if this was actually true, though.
This is just a different encoding format for the disc, which higher-end players could take advantage of. Hitokage touched on it, here's what Wiki says:

Since digital encoding and compression schemes were either unavailable or impractical in 1978, three encoding formats based on the rotation speed were used:

* CAV (Constant Angular Velocity) or Standard Play discs supported several unique features such as freeze frame, variable slow motion and reverse. CAV discs were spun at a constant rotational speed during playback, with one video frame read per revolution and in this mode, 54,000 individual frames or 30 minutes of audio/video could be stored on a single side of a CAV disc. Another unique attribute to CAV was to reduce the visibility of crosstalk from adjacent tracks, since on CAV discs any crosstalk at a specific point in a frame is simply from the same point in the next or previous frame. CAV was used less frequently than CLV, reserved for special editions of feature films to highlight bonus material and special effects. One of the most intriguing advantages of this format was the ability to reference every frame of a film directly by number—a feature of particular interest to film buffs, students and others intrigued by the study of errors in staging, continuity etc.

* CLV (Constant Linear Velocity) or Extended Play discs do not have the "trick play" features of CAV, offering only simple playback on all but the high-end laserdisc players incorporating a digital frame store. These high-end laserdisc players could add features not normally available to CLV discs such as variable forward and reverse, and a VCR-like "pause". CLV encoded discs could store 60 minutes of audio/video per side, or 2 hours per disc. For films with a run–time less than 120 minutes, this meant they could fit on a single disc, lowering the cost of the title and eliminating the distracting exercise of "getting up to change the disc"—at least for those who owned a dual-sided player. The vast majority of titles were only available in CLV. (A few titles were released partly CLV, partly CAV. For example, a 140-minute movie could fit on two CLV sides, and one CAV side, thus allowing for the CAV-only features during the climax of the film.)

* CAA (Constant Angular Acceleration). In the early 1980s, due to problems with crosstalk distortion on CLV extended play Laserdiscs, Pioneer Video introduced CAA formatting for extended play discs. Constant Angular Acceleration is very similar to Constant Linear Velocity save for the fact that CAA varies the angular rotation of the disc in controlled steps instead of gradually slowing down in a steady linear pace as a CLV disc is read. With the exception of 3M/Imation, all Laserdisc manufacturers adopted the CAA encoding scheme, although the term was rarely (if ever) used on any consumer packaging.

As Pioneer introduced Digital Audio to Laserdisc in 1985, they further refined the CAA format. CAA55 was introduced in 1985 with a total playback capacity of 55 minutes 5 seconds, and was necessary to resolve technical issues with the inclusion of Digital Audio. Several titles released between 1985 and 1987 were analog audio only due to the length of the title and the desire to keep the film on 1 disc (e.g., "Back to the Future"). By 1987, Pioneer had overcome the technical challenges and was able to once again encode in CAA60—allowing a total of 60 minutes, 5 seconds. Pioneer further refined CAA, offering CAA45—encoding 45 minutes of material, but filling the entire playback surface of the side. Used on only a handful of titles, CAA65 offered 65 minutes 5 seconds of playback time. The final variant of CAA is CAA70, which could accommodate 70 minutes of playback time. There are not any known uses of this format on the consumer market.

All of these timing parameters are based on the NTSC standard of 30fps. The PAL and SECAM standards of 25fps increases the playback capacity of all the various formats by 20%.

There's also something called MUSE LDs, which provided higher resolution. HD was around longer than you think!

In 1991, several manufacturers announced specifications for what would become known as MUSE Laserdisc, representing a span of almost 15 years until the feats of this HD analog optical disc system would finally be duplicated digitally by HD DVD and Blu-ray. Encoded using NHK's MUSE "Hi-Vision" analogue TV system, MUSE discs would operate like standard Laserdiscs but would contain high-definition 1125-line (1035 visible lines) video with a 5:3 aspect ratio. The MUSE players were also capable of playing standard NTSC format discs and are superior in performance to non-MUSE players even with these NTSC discs. The MUSE-capable players had several noteworthy advantages over standard Laserdisc players, including a red laser with a much narrower wavelength than the lasers found in standard players. The red laser was capable of reading through disc defects such as scratches and even mild disc-rot that would cause most other players to stop, stutter or drop-out. Crosstalk was not an issue with MUSE discs, and the narrow wavelength of the laser allowed for the virtual elimination of crosstalk with normal discs.

In order to view MUSE encoded discs, it was necessary to have a MUSE decoder in addition to a compatible player. There are televisions with MUSE decoding built-in and set top tuners with decoders that can provide the proper MUSE input. Equipment prices were high, especially for early HDTVs which generally eclipsed US$10,000, and even in Japan the market for MUSE was tiny. Players and discs were never officially sold in North America, although several distributors imported MUSE discs along with other import titles. Terminator 2: Judgement Day, Lawrence of Arabia, A League of Their Own, Bugsy, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Bram Stoker's Dracula and Chaplin were among the theatrical releases available on MUSE LDs. Several documentaries, including one about Formula One at Japan's Suzuka Circuit were also released.
 

Flynn

Member
RIP.

Laserdiscs were pretty awesome. Maybe their best moment was when the Pulp Fiction laser came out in Japan shortly after the movie came out here in the states. I made sweet, letterboxed bootleg tapes for all my friends.
 
worldrunover said:
A medical professor at the school I used to work at used these all the time. I would help her set them up and be amazed at A) the technology and B) the fact someone still used it.
My high school physics teacher used one in class. Another time he brought in an Apple computer as old as me to show off a sine wave program or something.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Operations said:
Has anyone explained why was it still being manufactured 27 years later considering the minimal demand?

medical professors and high school physics teachers by the sound of it.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Operations said:
Has anyone explained why was it still being manufactured 27 years later considering the minimal demand?
LDs were still doing okay in Japan, I guess it took this long for sales to finally drop low enough to stop production.
 

Realyst

Member
Crag Dweller said:
Wasn't there two competing laserdisc formats back in the day? I seem to recall one kind that you inserted case and all into the player and one that you didn't. Maybe one made by RCA and the other Pioneer? Its been awhile so my memory isn't too clear.

You're thinking of CED.

I'm using my iPhone, so I can't link you to more info.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
I thought that these were discontinued 8 years ago or so. Where have you even been able to buy these in the past few years?
 
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