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[kurisu_1974]

Ha ha. Fucking no. Not at all.

People don’t get to say that vastly intelligent, powerful and superior aliens from distant galaxies have visited this earth… and simultaneously claim that their human god with his human son, and their book written by humans made in his image, entirely about humans made in his image, is also correct.

Come on. You get one or the other. Not both

I think you underestimate religion.

And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures He has spread forth in both. And He has the power to gather them together whenever he pleases.”
(Holy Quran, 42:30)

 

[FunkMiller]

I think you underestimate religion.

Ah yes, this human looking god (sorry, gods. There are more than one on earth, of course), with books written entirely by humans, for humans, about humans, on this human planet, is somehow also responsible for these other gods coming from vast distances, with abilities and powers that dwarf anything in any human holy text.

How incredibly hubristic it is to think that our little human gods are in any way real, compared to that

 

[midnightAI]

We're so much smarter than ants and we crash vehicles all the time. Not just that, we get into all sorts of retarded problems.
Accidents and statistics, how do they work?


Basically cargo cults. In the Pacific these cults became more extreme once the WW2 airdops stopped. They were (are) trying to summon the aircraft. The aliens better have the decency to keep throwing us fruits and metals or we might just go full retard.

And how many vehicles are on the roads at any one time? How many ants drive cars?

 

[Hudo]

They were (are) trying to summon the aircraft.

I can respect that.

 

[SirKicksalot]

And how many vehicles are on the roads at any one time? How many ants drive cars?

Probably as many as humans driving UFOs. It's a fact that accidents happen, either by random chance or occasional retardation. Both humans and ants find themselves adrift at sea and they may or may not be responsible for the situation. And then the gulf between Louis Slotin and an ant might be as large as the one between Slotin and an alien. Shit happens.

Maybe the aliens don't recover the crashed vehicles for the same reason we don't recover our own Antarctic failures. Too much effort - and the penguins won't reverse engineer the snowmobile.

 

[midnightAI]

Probably as many as humans driving UFOs. It's a fact that accidents happen, either by random chance or occasional retardation. Both humans and ants find themselves adrift at sea and they may or may not be responsible for the situation. And then the gulf between Louis Slotin and an ant might be as large as the one between Slotin and an alien. Shit happens.

Maybe the aliens don't recover the crashed vehicles for the same reason we don't recover our own Antarctic failures. Too much effort - and the penguins won't reverse engineer the snowmobile.

My point is our technology would be rather archiac compared to that of an advanced civilisation capable of travelling between stars, that technology is like comparing a horse and cart with a Tesla. One crashed craft, maybe even two at a push I could understand, but 12 in the US alone? (That they have supposedly recovered)

(And if we are shooting them down I go back to my previous Independence day quote)

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Doubt it. Actual, real, undeniable hard evidence of intelligent alien life would fundamentally change the entire planet irrevocably and forever. Nobody would be untouched by it.

It’d pretty much kill every religion instantly, for instance.

It’d focus our minds on threats from without, instead of threats from within. We’d know there was something in this universe vastly more powerful than us. It’d be terrifying on an existential level.

Folks like to think how cool it would be, because they imagine little green men in little grey flying saucers. Nobody really wants to engage with the concept of what a higher form of life in every single respect visiting us would actually look or feel like.

I don't think anyone here is saying cool about what would happen. Jost cool that we are not alone. It would be terrifying and a major ontological shock that WOULD change things. Which is probably why if this is true there's reasons to conceal it.

 

[FunkMiller]

I don't think anyone here is saying cool about what would happen. Jost cool that we are not alone. It would be terrifying and a major ontological shock that WOULD change things. Which is probably why if this is true there's reasons to conceal it.

I seriously don't believe it would be concealable. Not from every single person in every single nation. Aside from anything else, the mere ability to manipulate spacetime in a way that would be necessary to travel either faster than light, or through some sort of wormhole technology, wouldn't be something that would be easy to conceal from all the stuff we've got looking out into local space.

And that's assuming that any alien life would even want to come down here in secret and bugger about in front of a few air force pilots.

Would you conceal yourself from the ants in an anthill, if you wanted to study them? No. Of course not. You wouldn't care if they were aware of you at all. And any alien civilisation that could conquer spacetime in a way that would allow them to see us and reach us wouldn't bother keeping themselves secret either.

The most hubristic thing in UFO conversations is treating the aliens as anything like equal to us. They wouldn't crash land in the Nevada desert, if they can negotiate their way across trillions of miles of space, at speeds that require you to navigate past celestial bodies before you can even fucking see them, in ships that are capable of withstanding the explosive force of trillions of grains of cosmic dust slamming into the front of the ship with the force of a nuclear bomb, at a trillion times a second.

 

[kurisu_1974]

Ah yes, this human looking god (sorry, gods. There are more than one on earth, of course), with books written entirely by humans, for humans, about humans, on this human planet, is somehow also responsible for these other gods coming from vast distances, with abilities and powers that dwarf anything in any human holy text.

How incredibly hubristic it is to think that our little human gods are in any way real, compared to that

I agree of course, but we haven't seen any actual evidence of the actual gods for millenia and that didn't stop religion to be a thing.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

I seriously don't believe it would be concealable. Not from every single person in every single nation. Aside from anything else, the mere ability to manipulate spacetime in a way that would be necessary to travel either faster than light, or through some sort of wormhole technology, wouldn't be something that would be easy to conceal from all the stuff we've got looking out into local space.

And that's assuming that any alien life would even want to come down here in secret and bugger about in front of a few air force pilots.

Would you conceal yourself from the ants in an anthill, if you wanted to study them? No. Of course not. You wouldn't care if they were aware of you at all. And any alien civilisation that could conquer spacetime in a way that would allow them to see us and reach us wouldn't bother keeping themselves secret either.

The most hubristic thing in UFO conversations is treating the aliens as anything like equal to us. They wouldn't crash land in the Nevada desert, if they can negotiate their way across trillions of miles of space, at speeds that require you to navigate past celestial bodies before you can even fucking see them, in ships that are capable of withstanding the explosive force of trillions of grains of cosmic dust slamming into the front of the ship with the force of a nuclear bomb, at a trillion times a second.

It hasn't been. There's been leaks from former officials throughout the decades. I'm just saying I can see why people at large would want to conceal it.

 

[FunkMiller]

I agree of course, but we haven't seen any actual evidence the actual gods for millenia and that didn't stop religion to be a thing.

Very true. But I'd wager a bunch of godlike aliens standing in front of us would probably put the mockers on any existing concepts we might have about gods. Because the evidence of what a god actually is would be standing right there in front of you.

You'd actually be able to ask how the universe began... and they'd probably be able to tell you.

The stories about the creation of the universe in The Bible/Quran/Torah/Bhagavad Gita etc. aren't really going to stand up when Ralph the friendly alien is literally telling you how things work, to your face.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

 

[darrylgorn]

We should rename UFOs to TBDFOs

 

[Days like these...]

Doubt it. Actual, real, undeniable hard evidence of intelligent alien life would fundamentally change the entire planet irrevocably and forever. Nobody would be untouched by it.

It’d pretty much kill every religion instantly, for instance.

It’d focus our minds on threats from without, instead of threats from within. We’d know there was something in this universe vastly more powerful than us. It’d be terrifying on an existential level.

Folks like to think how cool it would be, because they imagine little green men in little grey flying saucers. Nobody really wants to engage with the concept of what a higher form of life in every single respect visiting us would actually look or feel like.

Just like with the existence of God I don't care one way or another. It Would it be cool but not if I'd still have to go about my mundane existence. Unless they said here's a 100 million $ and your micropenis is now 9 inches.

 

[nush]

No. ‘God’ dies when god arrives.

God was born from the cargo cult situation, depending on the books you’ve read.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Tom's seemingly crazy discussion of it directly discusses the God angle. As I said before if THAT were true that would be massive ontological shock. Lol

 

[SF Kosmo]

Ha ha. Fucking no. Not at all.

People don’t get to say that vastly intelligent, powerful and superior aliens from distant galaxies have visited this earth… and simultaneously claim that their human god with his human son, and their book written by humans made in his image, entirely about humans made in his image, is also correct.

Come on. You get one or the other. Not both

Bro, I saw Christians on the comments section saying that it's actually demons flying the UFOs around.

The bible's worldview has been shattered by science and reality a hundred times over, but no one reads the bible and they'll just bend it to make it fit.

How? Like I've said, god would be standing right in front of them!

This entire thread all I've had is people telling me how colossally more advanced these aliens must be... completely beyond my understanding. That's how they can come to this planet, across the vast interstellar gulf, with technology far beyond anything we understand now.

That is a god.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C Clarke.

I don't want hear anybody in this thread trying to say that they can have their alien visitors and their god at the same time. It'd be ridiculous.

Yeah, I think it's important to remind ourselves that, no matter how advanced beings are, there are still things they haven't figured out yet, and things that will forever be science fiction, even to them, because they're actually impossible.

Like we assume that because they figured out interstellar travel they must be a million years beyond us. But it might be a couple hundred years away for all we know. New York City probably looks like it was made by super advanced aliens to someone born in the year 1600, but it's just a few hundred years ahead.

Like these aliens might only be a little less stupid than us. Let's hope they're not missionaries.

 

[FunkMiller]

Bro, I saw Christians on the comments section saying that it's actually demons flying the UFOs around.

The bible's worldview has been shattered by science and reality a hundred times over, but no one reads the bible and they'll just bend it to make it fit.

Hmmm. There's no wiggle room if Ralph the friendly alien and his pals make a visit though.

Right now, religious folk can point to all those answers we don't have, and claim that's where their god is.

Those questions would all be answered pretty fucking toot suite if Ralph turned up, given what he'd have to be capable of, to travel the distances required to come say hello, and the understanding he'd have to have of the construction of reality to accomplish it.

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

Bro, I saw Christians on the comments section saying that it's actually demons flying the UFOs around.

The bible's worldview has been shattered by science and reality a hundred times over, but no one reads the bible and they'll just bend it to make it fit.

Yeah. Quite honestly, if the invention of the iPhone and fast Internet hasn't destroyed religion I doubt anything will.

 

[Days like these...]

It’d pretty much kill every religion instantly, for instance.

It’d focus our minds on threats from without, instead of threats from within. We’d know there was something in this universe vastly more powerful than us. It’d be terrifying on an existential level.

I'm not so sure about it killing religion you see the Vatican already hedging their bets and to your other point if they can exterminate us like bugs and we don't have the wherewithal to do anything about it why worry?

 

[SF Kosmo]

Hmmm. There's no wiggle room if Ralph the friendly alien and his pals make a visit though.

Right now, religious folk can point to all those answers we don't have, and claim that's where their god is.

It's not so much about the answers they don't have as the answers they don't want or don't like.

Until the aliens are offering eternity in a paradise in the clouds, and fiery vengeance for their enemies and anyone that ever doubted them or was mean in hight school, some amount of people will continue to cling to the story they like.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yeah. Quite honestly, if the invention of the iPhone and fast Internet hasn't destroyed religion I doubt anything will.

Are you actually trying to equate the iPhone to the arrival on this earth of interstellar aliens?

I like my iPhone as much as the next man, but come on

I'm not entirely sure a lot of you have really thought about the actual implications of these fucking dudes turning up at our doorstep...

 

[SF Kosmo]

Are you actually trying to equate the iPhone to the arrival on this earth of interstellar aliens?

I like my iPhone as much as the next man, but come on

I think he means the fact that we have access to the wealth of human knowledge at our fingertips.

But there's been a weird effect to that. We now have more information than we know how to process and no one to gatekeep it, so people inevitably end up working problems backwards. Instead of researching a question in search of an answer (e.g. "What shape is the earth?"), they look up their desired conclusion and find a peer group to reinforce it (e.g. "Evidence the earth is flat"). It's totally broken the way we evolved to parse information, and so we've seen a regression into tribalism and fringe viewpoints because the culture hasn't figured out how to cope with this yet.

 

[FunkMiller]

I think he means the fact that we have access to the wealth of human knowledge at our fingertips.

But there's been a weird effect to that. We now have more information than we know how to process and no one to gatekeep it, so people inevitably end up working problems backwards. Instead of researching a question in search of an answer (e.g. "What shape is the earth?"), they look up their desired conclusion and find a peer group to reinforce it (e.g. "Evidence the earth is flat"). It's totally broken the way we evolved to parse information, and so we've seen a regression into tribalism and fringe viewpoints because the culture hasn't figured out how to cope with this yet.

Agree with all of that, absolutely.

But there has been, and never likely will be, an event that humanity could experience that would change things more than coming into contact with intelligent alien life. People aren't going to be able to disappear into their online silos. There would be no denying the truth of it. Tribalism falls to pieces when you realise that you are all part of one tribe - and there's a bigger, more powerful, far more superior tribe than yours out there.

 

[FunkMiller]

I mean, this argument right here pretty much blows the whole thing out of the water:




Six billion smartphones on Earth. Every one with high quality recording equipment. Live, high quality instant streaming. Privately owned satellites. A whole slew of technology in the hands of billions of ordinary people, all designed to capture footage instantly, and the accompanying apparatus to spread that footage across the planet, almost as instantly.

I'd suggest watching this, as Neil probably knows what he's talking about a little more than any of us.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Agree with all of that, absolutely.

But there has been, and never likely will be, an event that humanity could experience that would change things more than coming into contact with intelligent alien life. People aren't going to be able to disappear into their online silos. There would be no denying the truth of it. Tribalism falls to pieces when you realise that you are all part of one tribe - and there's a bigger, more powerful, far more superior tribe than yours out there.

Eventually but it would take generations and generations, because that's how we work as a species. Individually we're all stupid, genetically not much smarter than the people who lived in caves 100,000 years ago. What makes humanity smarter than other animals is our ability to share knowledge with each other and hand it down over generations. It takes billions of us working together over centuries to get to where we are and most of us still act like morons.

It's always been glacial. New discoveries have never rocked humanity all at once.

 

[Days like these...]

I think you underestimate religion.

Got to give the writer(s) of the Quoran some credit for giving themselves an out to explain Aliens.

 

[Days like these...]

Agree with all of that, absolutely.

But there has been, and never likely will be, an event that humanity could experience that would change things more than coming into contact with intelligent alien life. People aren't going to be able to disappear into their online silos. There would be no denying the truth of it. Tribalism falls to pieces when you realise that you are all part of one tribe - and there's a bigger, more powerful, far more superior tribe than yours out there.

I admire your optimism but you give us too much credit. I'd bet your left testicle tribalism will exist till humanity ceases to exist.

 

[AcrosstheSea]

Bro, I saw Christians on the comments section saying that it's actually demons flying the UFOs around.

The bible's worldview has been shattered by science and reality a hundred times over, but no one reads the bible and they'll just bend it to make it fit.


Yeah, I think it's important to remind ourselves that, no matter how advanced beings are, there are still things they haven't figured out yet, and things that will forever be science fiction, even to them, because they're actually impossible.

Like we assume that because they figured out interstellar travel they must be a million years beyond us. But it might be a couple hundred years away for all we know. New York City probably looks like it was made by super advanced aliens to someone born in the year 1600, but it's just a few hundred years ahead.

Like these aliens might only be a little less stupid than us. Let's hope they're not missionaries.

This is already the truth for a variety of reasons.

1. David Grusch said the first UFO on record was in Italy and the Vatican knows about it.

2. The pope and faith is open to extraterrestrials already

3. Garry Nolan who seems to be in on this stuff was in talks with the Vatican and they were saying to him well the Aliens could believe in Jesus.

They are already trying to morph it together. Garry thought it was arrogant lol

 

[FunkMiller]

I admire your optimism but you give us too much credit. I'd bet your left testicle tribalism will exist till humanity ceases to exist.

Yes, it will.

But that tribalism would fast turn to 'us vs the aliens', instead of 'us vs each other'. It's a little hard to be racist towards that black bloke over there, when there's a big fucking green dude - who holds the secrets to existence and can obliterate you in seconds - over there.

I think the dose of humility we'd get from contact with intelligent alien life would be worth the price of admission alone...

 

[Days like these...]

Yes, it will.

But that tribalism would fast turn to 'us vs the aliens', instead of 'us vs each other'. It's a little hard to be racist towards that black bloke over there, when there's a big fucking green dude - who holds the secrets to existence and can obliterate you in seconds - over there.

I think the dose of humility we'd get from contact with intelligent alien life would be worth the price of admission alone...

There is an old Arab Bedouin saying: I, against my brothers. I and my brothers against my cousins. I and my brothers and my cousins against the world.
I disagree I think tribalism would still be alive and well among us. Particularly on how to handle Aliens. Worship them? Fight them? Go about our business?

 

[PSYGN]

Even if you don't believe his explanation you have to respect the amount of effort in it (this isn't new, it came out last year).

 

[Romulus]

The guy on the right with the white hair was Commander Fravor. He and 3 other pilots encountered the uap on the Nimitz.

This is a radar operator from the same event. They're called Operations Specialists.

 

[midnightAI]

I mean, this argument right here pretty much blows the whole thing out of the water:




Six billion smartphones on Earth. Every one with high quality recording equipment. Live, high quality instant streaming. Privately owned satellites. A whole slew of technology in the hands of billions of ordinary people, all designed to capture footage instantly, and the accompanying apparatus to spread that footage across the planet, almost as instantly.

I'd suggest watching this, as Neil probably knows what he's talking about a little more than any of us.

I said a similar thing earlier but I was talking about amateur astronomers and other public entities looking into space constantly, and, well, nothing.

However, I wouldn't totally believe everything Neil says, he has got things wrong before (such as saying you can't see the curve from Virgin Galactic sub orbital craft and the same with Felix Baumgartners historic jump), but in this case I do agree, too many cameras, telescopes, other monitoring equipment to not have something that is undeniable in my opinion.

 

[G-Bus]

Even if you don't believe his explanation you have to respect the amount of effort in it (this isn't new, it came out last year).

C'mon man. I got shit to do. Now I'm gonna spend half my day on metabunk.

 

[Romulus]

Even if you don't believe his explanation you have to respect the amount of effort in it (this isn't new, it came out last year).

Mick West told a story that he grew up terrified of the unknown and specifically aliens. He would literally hide thinking he could be abducted. His career choice speaks to that. I think most of us have fears as children but his were extraordinary.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I mean, this argument right here pretty much blows the whole thing out of the water:




Six billion smartphones on Earth. Every one with high quality recording equipment. Live, high quality instant streaming. Privately owned satellites. A whole slew of technology in the hands of billions of ordinary people, all designed to capture footage instantly, and the accompanying apparatus to spread that footage across the planet, almost as instantly.

I'd suggest watching this, as Neil probably knows what he's talking about a little more than any of us.

It's a very overstated case. People don't have high quality recording equipment. You couldn't take a clear picture of an airplane with your smartphone, let alone something at 20,000 feet. Most smartphones can't even get a good picture of Beyonce from the cheap seats.

Satellites are hardly democratized or open. Privately owned satellites may exist, but only a handful that would be relevant here, and only with the cooperation of the government aerospace apparatus. Grush claims there is sat imagery that he thinks is compelling evidence, but they're going to need to get over the procedural hurdles to get access to it.

 

[Romulus]

Not only that, there are alot of of videos and pics.

There has been an influx of videos being uploaded that are unidentified for years on UFO reddit. I see more in a year than I did all throughout the 90s and early 2000s. Often, no one offers any explanation to the uploads and just gives up. Their are tons of skeptics there and Metabunk types.

But the problem is the smartphones don't capture great video at high speed or very high altitude outside the newest phone.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Even if you don't believe his explanation you have to respect the amount of effort in it (this isn't new, it came out last year).

Great video. I think his explanation makes total sense.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

e: derp

 

[AcrosstheSea]

I mean, this argument right here pretty much blows the whole thing out of the water:




Six billion smartphones on Earth. Every one with high quality recording equipment. Live, high quality instant streaming. Privately owned satellites. A whole slew of technology in the hands of billions of ordinary people, all designed to capture footage instantly, and the accompanying apparatus to spread that footage across the planet, almost as instantly.

I'd suggest watching this, as Neil probably knows what he's talking about a little more than any of us.

I've watched him many times on the topic. He's brought the cell phone topic up so many times and I don't know what he's trying to prove. There are tons of UFO cell phone videos out there. People just write it off as CGI or what have you. Videos are useless. People have an inherent bias.
I mean look you straight up think this is BS and you don't even seem willing to wait and see what happens with the investigation which tells me your mind is decided on it. People like that wouldn't be convinced by a video by someone even if it looked real. They would go to the default ' there's no way aliens are visiting us so this must be cgi'.

I personally find Neil to be very condescending ( particularly his interview on Theory of everything podcast) when he talks about this stuff and in general find it frustrating when people are closed minded to the point of thinking something is an impossibility. I don't pretend to know if this is true but I'm willing to see this stuff play out.

PSYGN

Regarding the Mick video. I do respect his huge breakdown. The problem is he's analyzing something the government actually has data on along with multiple eye witness accounts. He's got less information than them. They also APPARENTLY have higher quality videos of this stuff that they haven't released? Why? Who the hell knows but Matt Gaetz also brought up seeing a very high shot taken from a pilot.

So again when you are overly skeptical to the point of thinking something is an impossibility then they aren't searching for the truth you are searching for ways to debunk something. I wish there were truly impartial people out there. Which is why to me this investigation is important. They will expose HOPEFULLY whatever is actually going on.

 

[midnightAI]

Not only that, there are alot of of videos and pics.

There has been an influx of videos being uploaded that are unidentified for years on UFO reddit. I see more in a year than I did all throughout the 90s and early 2000s. Often, no one offers any explanation to the uploads and just gives up. Their are tons of skeptics there and Metabunk types.

But the problem is the smartphones don't capture great video at high speed or very high altitude outside the newest phone.

There is also now commercial and consumer drones, there is also now satellites in the form of starlink etc that can easily be seen from earth moving across the sky, there are loads of things that weren't there 20 years ago that people could and can mistake for UFOs. Some are unexplained not denying that though (until debunked or otherwise and there are very few genuine unexplained phenomenon but they do exist).

 

[AcrosstheSea]

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Even if you don't believe his explanation you have to respect the amount of effort in it (this isn't new, it came out last year).

Forget about the UAP--the tech behind the jet's tracking mechanism is cool as hell.

 

[Romulus]

There is also now commercial and consumer drones, there is also now satellites in the form of starlink etc that can easily be seen from earth moving across the sky, there are loads of things that weren't there 20 years ago that people could and can mistake for UFOs. Some are unexplained not denying that though (until debunked or otherwise and there are very few genuine unexplained phenomenon but they do exist).

The starlink and other softball pitches are quickly thrown out, so I often see a thread that no one can explain. The thing is the footage is typically blurry from cellphones so no one even bothers.

 

[midnightAI]

The starlink and other softball pitches are quickly thrown out, so I often see a thread that no one can explain. The thing is the footage is typically blurry from cellphones so no one even bothers.

As I mentioned earlier, there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers looking at the sky every night through telescopes many capable of taking photos and video it's not just cellphones.

But also as I mentioned previously, part in jest, why do these alien craft shot at night have lights on them or are even supposedly made of glowing material? Is that so we can more easily take dodgy video of them?

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

Are you actually trying to equate the iPhone to the arrival on this earth of interstellar aliens?

I like my iPhone as much as the next man, but come on

I'm not entirely sure a lot of you have really thought about the actual implications of these fucking dudes turning up at our doorstep...

More the fact that people can now access enough information easily to make up their minds on what elements of religions they choose to believe.

Once again you're attempting to come across as smart and just drooling over yourself.

 

[Tygeezy]

As I mentioned earlier, there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers looking at the sky every night through telescopes many capable of taking photos and video it's not just cellphones.

But also as I mentioned previously, part in jest, why do these alien craft shot at night have lights on them or are even supposedly made of glowing material? Is that so we can more easily take dodgy video of them?

None of us have the answers to these questions only they they are acknowledged as real objects which is why we want the investigation to continue so we can get as many answers as possible.

 

[EddieVanHelgen]

As I mentioned earlier, there are tens of thousands of amateur astronomers looking at the sky every night through telescopes many capable of taking photos and video it's not just cellphones.

But also as I mentioned previously, part in jest, why do these alien craft shot at night have lights on them or are even supposedly made of glowing material? Is that so we can more easily take dodgy video of them?

I agree with this. There are far too many fakes out there and it's too easy to do.

But the more important sightings like the ones witnessed by commander Fravor and Ryan Graves are the ones worthy of proper investigation.

 

[FunkMiller]

More the fact that people can now access enough information easily to make up their minds on what elements of religions they choose to believe.

Once again you're attempting to come across as smart and just drooling over yourself.

I think it's more that you don't really have much of an argument, and are therefore resorting to insults

...but well done for actually responding, instead of just using passive aggressive emoji likes, which you seem to love doing