Support NeoGAF

[Tiago Rodrigues]

"One thing that can be said is that if you look at the history of the game business, creating a special low priced, reduced spec console is something that has not had great results in the past. We’ve considered that option and seen other executives who have attempted this discover how problematic it is."

Over 3 years ago Jim Ryan said the above quote to VGC and the response online was...interesting and was mocked online (including on neogaf as well). Specially before PS5 and Series consoles released and there was some goodwill and hype for MS in the months prior the new consoles released.

Now that these consoles have been out for 3 years, do you agree with this quote? Has your stance on cheaper models changed with how Series S / X are selling opposite to the PS5? Or do you guys still think something like this can work but not the way MS is doing it? If so, how would you plan a cheaper model like Series S?

 

[Pelta88]

Obviously he was right. Series S in an anchor to the Series X. To the point where it inadvertently made some games exclusive to PS because parity couldn’t be achieved between S&X.

Dumb ‘strategic’ move from totally inept XB management.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Jim said a lot of things... I think time is giving him the reason (even with the dumb things he said)

 

[Punished Miku]

Without Series S I think MS would be completely destroyed. If you have a dominant competitor breaking sales records like PS5 you have to plan as being people's 2nd or even 3rd console. Most people just dont need 2 $500 consoles. Series S requires a little extra work but its generally been extremely smooth other than local splitscreen. I have X and S and switch between them without it even being that noticeable. The majority of Xbox sales are the S. Both Xbox and Nintendo are approaching consoles with a focus on affordability as a 2nd or 3rd console. They could likely make it even smoother next time with more RAM and a couple small adjustments.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

He was absolutely right and I knew he was right but people at that time were seriously on the Phil Spencer Koolaid. There was a huge marketing campaign around the Xbox 3 years ago on online forums and also a FUD spreading campaign against the PS5 so logically to most people Jim was "afraid" of the potential success of the Series S when he made that statement. They were so dead wrong lol.

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

Thats up to MS and Sony. The S is selling much more than the X. Is that good ore bad?
That depence on what side of the fence your standing. I think that Jim was right and from my standpoint Sony did the right thing. But i think i get disagrees but that will not change my mind over this matter...

 

[SlimySnake]

There has never been a series s like console so not sure wtf he was talking about, but yes, the series s didnt light the charts on fire.

 

[poppabk]

What are the historical precedences he's talking about?

 

[analog_future]

I think the Series S is the only thing keeping the Xbox brand competitive in any way right now.

If it were only Series X vs PS5, Xbox sales would be absolutely dire.

 

[Mister Wolf]

If Gamepass turns into a success then the S will be considered a success.

 

[Three]

There has never been a series s like console so not sure wtf he was talking about, but yes, the series s didnt light the charts on fire.

Does it have to be from the same manufacturer? Does it need to be a non-upgradeable standard or would expansions count?

 

[Papa_Wisdom]

 

[Hugare]

Series S is selling more than the X, right?

It's a win for the company that makes them and for the casuals.

For everyone else it's a disgrace: you force devs to make games for your weak machine, players have to deal with less ambitious games that were designed with weaker hardware in mind, competitors also have to deal with less ambitious multiplatform games and the list goes on

Microsoft is still chasing that casuals money like they did with the Kinect instead of going toe to toe with Sony

I miss the 360 era so much. Last time MS had some balls.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Series S is just too expensive.
They should have released that damn thing at half the price.
Instead they are stuck with a major F-up.

 

[Fbh]

I don't think the Series S is why Xbox is doing poorly though.
It's more a mix of a very poor X1 generation, a lackluster launch having to delay Halo a whole year and an overall lacking software lineup.

The only thing it disproves is that idea some people online (including here) had that price is the only thing that matters and the cheaper console will instantly be a success no matter what.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

What are the historical precedences he's talking about?

He's probably talking about the 20GB $499 vs 60GB $599 PS3 consoles back during the PS3s launch. I remember the 20GB models didn't sell well and Sony eventually canned them.

 

[jm89]

It's now been discounted during 2 holiday periods massively, consumers don't want it.

I mean consoles getting discounts during holiday periods is normal, but last year series s was discounted for a few months and this year it was such a heavy discount. Not normal.

 

[bitbydeath]

If Gamepass turns into a success then Xbox will be discontinued.

FTFY.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Without Series S I think MS would be completely destroyed. If you have a dominant competitor breaking sales records like PS5 you have to plan as being people's 2nd or even 3rd console. Most people just dont need 2 $500 consoles. Series S requires a little extra work but its generally been extremely smooth other than local splitscreen. I have X and S and switch between them without it even being that noticeable. The majority of Xbox sales are the S. Both Xbox and Nintendo are approaching consoles with a focus on affordability as a 2nd or 3rd console. They could likely make it even smoother next time with more RAM and a couple small adjustments.

Would of been completely destroyed without xss, by what meta?

What are the sale figures at now between the 3?

 

[Codes 208]

Series S is just too expensive.
They should have released that damn thing at half the price.
Instead they are stuck with a major F-up.

Its the same price as a switch.

Its also frequently cheaper (many retailers usually have a $250 sale going on here and there)

 

[Kurotri]

Yes, I agree with Jimbo here. Do 1 SKU, do not hold back games, do not give devs further headaches, avoid embarrassing situations like Baldurs Gate 3 for your players.

 

[Banjo64]

There has never been a series s like console so not sure wtf he was talking about, but yes, the series s didnt light the charts on fire.

Surely reduced spec could refer to the 360 core and basic bitch PS3, Wii U etc?

 

[Three]

What are the historical precedences he's talking about?

There are several if you take the quote to mean from other manufacturers going for a low spec machine with no defining features within the same gen.

"creating a special low priced, reduced spec console is something that has not had great results in the past. We’ve considered that option and seen other executives who have attempted this discover how problematic it is"

There is even precedence within the same manufacturers too if you take into account expandable hardware to see how software support for the higher spec gets affected if it's not the standard console. RAM packs, 32x, PS2 HDD, the 360 elite all had higher specs but the standard best seller resulted in developers not being able to rely on the presence of particular things, affecting software support and being unfavourable to the higher spec machine.

 

[Bartski]

was he really mocked tho? I thought everyone agreed series S is a shit idea

 

[Bernoulli]

Jim Ryan: Series S - style consoles ‘have not had great results’

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/series-s-style-consoles-have-not-had-great-results-says-playstation-boss/ PlayStation considered a lower-spec PS5 console similar to Xbox’s Series S, but feared it would quickly become obsolete, CEO Jim Ryan has said. Speaking to Japanese site AV Watch...

www.neogaf.com

was he really mocked tho? I thought everyone agreed series S is a shit idea

Yes he was check all the attacks on the thread

 

[tr1p1ex]

They couldn't price it cheap enough. $300 was too close to the $400 PS5 digital which was full power.

And the PS5 digital wasn't a big seller for Sony as it was afaik ...because it was too close to the $500 PS5. And buying just a few physical games (and reselling them) saves you the $100.

The other issue is 2 skus is always a bit of cluster for retailers. I think the console makers mainly launch with 2 skus so they can say available for as low as ...

 

[Wandering Leopard]

I imagine they would have consulted a range of 3rd party Devs about a device like the 'S', but then probably ignored their concerns.

I also wonder what the impact will be when next gen starts and devs inevitably start making cross gen games... (I don't like the thought of the 'S' being the minimum baseline in 3/4 years :/

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Over 3 years ago Jim Ryan said the above quote to VGC and the response online was...interesting and was mocked online (including on neogaf as well). Specially before PS5 and Series consoles released and there was some goodwill and hype for MS in the months prior the new consoles released.

Now that these consoles have been out for 3 years, do you agree with this quote? Has your stance on cheaper models changed with how Series S / X are selling opposite to the PS5? Or do you guys still think something like this can work but not the way MS is doing it? If so, how would you plan a cheaper model like Series S?

70% of Xbox sales are Series S. Seems like the Series S saved the Xbox Series consoles not hampered it.

 

[Bernoulli]

I imagine they would have consulted a range of 3rd party Devs about a device like the 'S', but then probably ignored their concerns.

I also wonder what the impact will be when next gen starts and devs start making cross gen games...

Their only mistake is the nerfed memory, if the S and X had the same memory

 

[Banjo64]

Its the same price as a switch.

Its also frequently cheaper (many retailers usually have a $250 sale going on here and there)

When you consider the quality of game/library available on Switch compared to Xbox - and also the fact that a Switch Lite undercuts the Series S by quite a way, I’d say the S is overpriced.

 

[Hudo]

Isn't the Pro a beefed up Playstation, which means that the "slim" is the weaker Playstation?

How is that different from the S and X shit?

 

[Mr Moose]

70% of Xbox sales are Series S. Seems like the Series S saved the Xbox Series consoles not hampered it.

I believe that was just for a month (April 2022 or something?).

Isn't the Pro a beefed up Playstation, which means that the "slim" is the weaker Playstation?

How is that different from the S and X shit?

Pro didn't launch at the same time and the PS4. PS4 was never created to be low priced reduced spec machine.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

He was right. Sony/Cerny have been trying to make game development easier over the past years not harder. Sometimes it feels like MS intentionally handicaps themselves.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Isn't the Pro a beefed up Playstation, which means that the "slim" is the weaker Playstation?

How is that different from the S and X shit?

The PRO was never the "main" console, never had nearly as many units produced as the slim model etc. It was mostly a "niche" product. It was also not released alongside the slim model in 2013...it was just an upgrade model from 2016 or 2017 (can't remember rn). It was also just a model that allowed for better framerates and resolutions basically.

The Series S is literally making multiplatform games not releasing on Series X, which never happened with the PS4 Pro.

 

[Topher]

Isn't the Pro a beefed up Playstation, which means that the "slim" is the weaker Playstation?

How is that different from the S and X shit?

You don't know the difference between what a mid gen refresh is and what X and S are?

 

[NeverYouMind]

If I want to play a game at high fidelity I get the PC version. If I just want to jump into a game I boot up the Series S and use quick resume.

Consoles are in a wierd place where the convenience of plug and play akin to the sixth generation (PS2/GC/Xbox) and prior is practically gone.

 

[Three]

Isn't the Pro a beefed up Playstation, which means that the "slim" is the weaker Playstation?

How is that different from the S and X shit?

The only difference is that you're going the other way. In other words the X spec is what's competing with the PS5 but the S is holding back development on it whereas a Pro now wouldn't be a low spec low price alternative. it's a higher spec and higher price than what was released 3 years ago. At worse the PS5 Pro would just get PS5 regular games from 3 years ago. Doesn’t make the PS5 a "special low spec machine" to reduce cost that holds back a 3 yr old higher spec machine.

 

[Xyphie]

It's fine. System has been around for 3 years and has +99% feature parity with PS5/XSX in games only having lower graphical output (either resolution/RT/framerate) which was the original design intent. Not requiring splitscreen mode unless the game is built around it (e.g. A Way Out) is perfectly reasonable and should've been there from the start though as that's an extra viewport to render. Microsoft's assessment that there would be limited ways of cost reducing silicon other than NAND going forward has turned out correctly.

 

[SlimySnake]

Surely reduced spec could refer to the 360 core and basic bitch PS3, Wii U etc?

the only thing lacking in the 360 arcade was the HDD and the 20 GB PS3 was identical save for the 60 GB HDD and some memory card slots. it even came with PS2 BC.

The Wii U didnt have a basic version.

 

[Housh]

I like to imagine having the Series S around forces devs to make games that are optimized and potentially run better on Steam Deck too.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

I believe that was just for a month (April 2022 or something?).

Pro didn't launch at the same time and the PS4. PS4 was never created to be low priced reduced spec machine.

I really doubt the Series x is outselling the Series S. Nothing points to that being the overall picture.

 

[Basil King]

Obviously he was right. Series S in an anchor to the Series X to the point where it inadvertently made some games exclusive to PS because parity couldn’t be achieved between S&X.

Dumb ‘strategic’ move from totally inept XB management.

What game is that? Are we really arguing Baldurs gate 3 was exclusive to PlayStation for 2 months as a talking point. We riding with Jim that bad over here?

Series S is smart, my house needed a new console so these little fuckers can play Fortnite. I bought them a series S, fuck spending $500 on a ps5 or XSX for them.

 

[Banjo64]

the only thing lacking in the 360 arcade was the HDD and the 20 GB PS3 was identical save for the 60 GB HDD and some memory card slots. it even came with PS2 BC.

The 360 core not having a HDD made it a completely gimped console.

The Wii U didnt have a basic version.

Yes it did.

 

[Hudo]

I believe that was just for a month (April 2022 or something?).

Pro didn't launch at the same time and the PS4. PS4 was never created to be low priced reduced spec machine.

The PRO was never the "main" console, never had nearly as many units produced as the slim model etc. It was mostly a "niche" product. It was also not released alongside the slim model in 2013...it was just an upgrade model from 2016 or 2017 (can't remember rn). It was also just a model that allowed for better framerates and resolutions basically.

The Series S is literally making multiplatform games not releasing on Series X, which never happened with the PS4 Pro.

You don't know the difference between what a mid gen refresh is and what X and S are?

The only difference is that you're going the other way. In other words the X spec is what's competing with the PS5 but the S is holding back development on it whereas a Pro now wouldn't be a low spec low price alternative. it's a higher spec and higher price than what was released 3 years ago. At worse the PS5 Pro would just get PS5 regular games from 3 years ago. Doesn’t make the PS5 a "special low spec machine" to reduce cost that holds back a 3 yr old higher spec machine.

Holy maccaroni.

I was just shitposting. Keep your balls cool, Playstationers.

But I still maintain that mid-gen refreshes are fucking stupid, tho.

 

[Crayon]

and there was some goodwill and hype for MS in the months prior the new consoles released.

 

[Bernkastel]

FTFY.

Yes. They will close their platform where they get 30% cut for all games and MTX and allows them to create a subscription service for third party games.
You do realise Game Pass can't function if they go third party and remain at the mercy of another platform holder. It would basically be EA Play since they can only put first party games and still give a cut to the platform holder.
Just so you understand "Xbox" generates more revenue than ActiBliz because they own a platform where third sell games.

Console warring whole day on GAF really makes people clueless.

 

[Gaelyon]

Isn't the Pro a beefed up Playstation, which means that the "slim" is the weaker Playstation?

How is that different from the S and X shit?

S was launched day one with a parity clause. By doing this MS defined baseline next gen as series S consoles : Everything need to scale down to S for the entire gen. Series X is the "pro" by comparison. Sony did not lower the baseline specs with a day one console.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

He'll say what he wants, but he was a son of a bitch... I don't forgive him for what he did with Japan Studio, neither today nor ever.

 

[Three]

I really doubt the Series x is outselling the Series S. Nothing points to that being the overall picture.

It isn't but he's referring to the quoted 70% figure only. I don't think it's anywhere near 70% overall.

Holy maccaroni.

I was just shitposting. Keep your balls cool, Playstationers.

But I still maintain that mid-gen refreshes are fucking stupid, tho.

Ok, after this I'm no longer keeping them cool

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Isn't the Pro a beefed up Playstation, which means that the "slim" is the weaker Playstation?

How is that different from the S and X shit?

Please tell me you are joking.

Actually nevermind. I feel stupid asking you to clarify. You have to be joking.