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[cw_sasuke]

Of course, but if you look at mobiles with 4"+ under 150€/$ 480p and 540p are pretty much a given. I find it unlikely that they will go higher, 720p is the most we can wish for IMO.

The Moto G already kinda established that you can get a good 720p screen in that price range.

 

[GhostTrick]

The Moto G already kinda established that you can get a good 720p screen in that price range.

Yeah true. It would be really impressive if Nintendo failed to reach Moto G price point with lower specs in 2016.

 

[Kater]

Just ditch the dual screens finally, Nintendo, and get rid of the touch component. That's my biggest wish for the next handheld.

That's really a bad idea though. Touch is convenient, necessary for mobile ports and can be used in Nintendos own games for interesting new gameplay.

 

[mrklaw]

The Moto G already kinda established that you can get a good 720p screen in that price range.

Vita has a decently powerful chip (similar to last year's ipad retina?) and still can't handle 540p in lots of games. I'd rather Nintendo pick a screen that will work well with the power they have available than go 720p and have games be sub-native. I guess for simpler games (like art academy) and for playing movies a higher res is handy, but 3DS isn't exactly a media machine so I don't think that should be a priority.


Speaking of Art Academy - I wonder if they'll stick with resistive touch or go capacitive? If they do go capacitive for more finger friendly usage, I hope they include good stylus support

 

[Log4Girlz]

Vita has a decently powerful chip (similar to last year's ipad retina?) and still can't handle 540p in lots of games. I'd rather Nintendo pick a screen that will work well with the power they have available than go 720p and have games be sub-native. I guess for simpler games (like art academy) and for playing movies a higher res is handy, but 3DS isn't exactly a media machine so I don't think that should be a priority.


Speaking of Art Academy - I wonder if they'll stick with resistive touch or go capacitive?

4ds needs to be a media machine

 

[Shaanyboi]

I'd be fine with Nintendo finally abandoning the dual screen concept. I love the 3DS/DS alot, but if they choose a different approach, I'd be fine with it (as long as there was still some kind of screen cover or clamshell design).

But they shouldn't abandon the touch screen.

 

[frankie_baby]

I'd be fine with Nintendo finally abandoning the dual screen concept. I love the 3DS/DS alot, but if they choose a different approach, I'd be fine with it (as long as there was still some kind of screen cover or clamshell design).

But they shouldn't abandon the touch screen.

Would you be ok with ninty selling a sexy 2ds style pouch?

 

[Memorabilia]

I want to be able to carry it in my pocket and be able to whip it out before class without everyone starting to stare at me.

Something inconspicuous as an option. You can see those tacky looking bright colored shiny 3DSes from a mile away.

I know there are going to be negative responses to this, but I think this is actually a very important observation in that it demonstrates how physical design and product perception come together. Much of the public sees Nintendo consoles/handhelds as toys for kids, which has the effect of inherently limiting the target demographic. Right or wrong, many people want to play games on the go/in public but dont want to advertise to everyone thats what they are doing. I believe theres a stigma attached to Nintendo handhelds in a variety of social circles, whether it be college or a work environment. Sure, millions of people use their tablets/phones to play Candy Crush...but those devices at least have a physical appearance which provides the guise of being used for other functions as well.

"Fitting in" isnt necessarily always a good thing, but I do think the immature, toy-like appearance of Nintendos handhelds is a factor that negatively impacts sales with a sizeable target demo who might otherwise pick one up. A lot of people love Mario...but dont want their device screaming, "Im playing Mario right now!" Personally, Id never think of pulling out a rather goofy looking 3ds before or after one of my med school classes...but dont think twice about using a tablet or phone all the time...even if its for a few minutes of Angry Birds before lecture starts.

Nintendo could easily design the next device to look distinctive/fun and yet take on a more professional appearance that can blend in to more environments as well.

 

[wsippel]

I still think Nintendo will be going with Qualcomm, mostly because the project manager at NTD who I assume is responsible for the next handheld is a former Qualcomm engineer.

The Moto G already kinda established that you can get a good 720p screen in that price range.

And that's really nice for displaying text, but a massive waste of GPU power for a dedicated gaming device in my opinion. It's not about the screen itself, it's about driving the screen.

 

[Nikodemos]

I would expect 2GB of RAM in 2016, otherwise this is within my expectations.

2GB LPDDR4? Nah. Too expensive. The memory isn't even out yet, and 2016 is only a year and a half away. It's unlikely the price will drop that fast until then.

I can see, at most, and with quite a bit of reservation, maaybe 1 GB (with 128 MB stacked VRAM).

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Personally I'd love to see them go with an AMD SoC solution for both their next Handheld and Console. Just scaled differently.

I know they've only been talking about the whole combined development environment probably at an OS level. That said I do wonder what it would be like if they went with the same SoC and just different amounts in the break down. Meaning lets say instead of (and these are just random numbers to show an example not what I expect it'll be) 12 CPU cores, 2048 GPU cores and say 16 gigs of ram for the console, it was the same parts but 4 CPU cores, 512 GPU cores and 4 gigs of ram for the handheld.

I know that's probably not what's going to happen, but I think it would be interesting if it did.

It would sure as shit unify development and your teams would be able to quickly jump between making a handheld title or making a console one.

 

[1st Course]

Vita has a decently powerful chip (similar to last year's ipad retina?) and still can't handle 540p in lots of games. I'd rather Nintendo pick a screen that will work well with the power they have available than go 720p and have games be sub-native. I guess for simpler games (like art academy) and for playing movies a higher res is handy, but 3DS isn't exactly a media machine so I don't think that should be a priority.


Speaking of Art Academy - I wonder if they'll stick with resistive touch or go capacitive? If they do go capacitive for more finger friendly usage, I hope they include good stylus support

Vita is mostly similar to iPad 3

GPU
Vita SGX543MP4+
iPad 3 SGX543MP4 (32 GFLOPS)

CPU
Vita ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore (quad core)
iPad 3 ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore (dual core)

Memory bandwidth
Vita ???
iPad 3 12.8 GB/sec

 

[nikatapi]

It would be nice to see a solution that provides WiiU-like graphics (with compromises like 3DS compared to Wii) and has a decent battery life.

Hopefully the architecture will facilitate 3rd party development and ports, having support of all the engines that are popular. There are lots of nice mobile games and it would be an advantage to have them on the handheld platform, with relatively low cost of porting.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Of course, but if you look at mobiles with 4"+ under 150€/$ 480p and 540p are pretty much a given. I find it unlikely that they will go higher, 720p is the most we can wish for IMO.

This in 2014, in 2016 that will be common...

Moto G has 720p screen for a bit more than 150€ in 2014.

 

[GhostTrick]

This in 2014, in 2016 that will be common...

Moto G has 720p screen for a bit more than 150€ in 2014.

Then again, 720p is a huge waste of power. Compared to 480p, it would ask to display 2,25 times more pixels, which is a huge waste compared to the quality gain on such small screen.
I'd rather have that power used for better framerate, IQ, or effetcs. People are getting too much spoiled by smartphones. My Galaxy S4 has a 1080p screen, same as my TV. Yet, you can see that even new gen consoles have troubles with 1080p for the most demanding games.

 

[disap.ed]

2GB LPDDR4? Nah. Too expensive. The memory isn't even out yet, and 2016 is only a year and a half away. It's unlikely the price will drop that fast until then.

That's why I left out the type of RAM, altough I don't think LPDDR4 would be too unrealistic either. This will start this year in phones, no? I read something about Samsung using it (not too unlikely when they produce also the RAM themselve).

This in 2014, in 2016 that will be common...

Moto G has 720p screen for a bit more than 150€ in 2014.

I would agree when there wouldn't be things like GhostTrick explained:

Then again, 720p is a huge waste of power. Compared to 480p, it would ask to display 2,25 times more pixels, which is a huge waste compared to the quality gain on such small screen.
I'd rather have that power used for better framerate, IQ, or effetcs. People are getting too much spoiled by smartphones. My Galaxy S4 has a 1080p screen, same as my TV. Yet, you can see that even new gen consoles have troubles with 1080p for the most demanding games.

Do you think a lot of customers are complaining about WiiUs Gamepad resolution? I don't think, a few vocal hardcore users maybe.
As I wrote before, I wouldn't write 720p off completely, but a 480p/540p is way more likely IMO because of price of display and hardware power required to use the resolution natively.

 

[GhostTrick]

That's why I left out the type of RAM, altough I don't think LPDDR4 would be too unrealistic either. This will start this year in phones, no? I read something about Samsung using it (not too unlikely when they produce also the RAM themselve).



I would agree when there wouldn't be things like GhostTrick explained:



Do you think a lot of customers are complaining about WiiUs Gamepad resolution? I don't think, a few vocal hardcore users maybe.
As I wrote before, I wouldn't write 720p off completely, but a 480p/540p is way more likely IMO because of price of display and hardware power required to use the resolution natively.

Nope, I think that most people don't care about gamepad resolution. And to be fair, most of the complaints from the vocal ones comes, imo, from the quality of the screen itself, which is altered by the fact it's resistive (that technology makes screen less good) but alos the fact that the content is streamed, so there are artefacts.
A 5inch, 480p screen, would be more than enough.

 

[sörine]

2GB LPDDR4? Nah. Too expensive. The memory isn't even out yet, and 2016 is only a year and a half away. It's unlikely the price will drop that fast until then.

I can see, at most, and with quite a bit of reservation, maaybe 1 GB (with 128 MB stacked VRAM).

Historically though Nintendo tends to go with more memory in their handhelds versus their comparably specced console.

NES 4 kB vs GB 16 kB (GBC 48 kB)

SNES 256 kB vs GBA 384 kB

N64 4 MB vs DS 5 MB (DSi 18 MB)

GC 43 MB (Wii 91 MB) vs 3DS 134 MB

Wii U 2 GB vs ???

 

[Nikodemos]

Historically though Nintendo tends to go with more memory in their handhelds versus their comparably specced console.

NES 4 kB vs GB 16 kB (GBC 48 kB)

SNES 256 kB vs GBA 384 kB

N64 4 MB vs DS 5 MB (DSi 18 MB)

GC 43 MB (Wii 91 MB) vs 3DS 134 MB

Wii U 2 GB vs ???

That's not an accurate comparison, because there's quite a bit of generational difference between launches.

Besides, the Famicom is contemporary to the Game & Watch. The GB is from the same generation as the SuperFamicom, GBC same as the N64, GBA - GC etc. Basically all the handhelds need to be upshifted.

At most, I can see the #DS having 1 GB LPDDR4 (I don't think Nintendo will go with LPDDR3, since DDR4 has better bandwidth and lower power reqs).

 

[mechphree]

I see the next 3ds probably slightly powerful then the Vita. It definitely won't be a power-house because that isn't their style. I would like them to try and take a more grown up approach to how they design it though. The 3DS does look like a kids toy. One would wish for a type of design thats more modern along the lines of an iphone or something.

 

[Jinko]

480p would be my guess.

I'm not really so worried about resolution as PPI, they need to aim for around 300 or more if they want to compete with mobile and tablets.

They should also have the OG system similar screen size to the XL.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I still think Nintendo will be going with Qualcomm, mostly because the project manager at NTD who I assume is responsible for the next handheld is a former Qualcomm engineer.

What SoC would you think is most likely?

 

[Interceptor]

I'm not really so worried about resolution as PPI, they need to aim for around 300 or more if they want to compete with mobile and tablets.

They should also have the OG system similar screen size to the XL.

Thank you. Finally someone to say something smart about resolutions on handheld devices.

 

[veritassin]

It's exactly the same? The original Xbox One system was that you'd buy a disc, and it would register that disc to your Xbox live account as if you'd bought the digital version. You wouldn't need the disc after that to play it, it was just this useless hunk of plastic you could use to reinstall the game instead of downloading it, I guess.

What he proposed is essentially the same thing. But a disc, register it to your account, it's now a digital download.

Yea and that sounds like a good thing and it also sounded like a crossbuy system what the other poster was talking about.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

I see the next 3ds probably slightly powerful then the Vita. It definitely won't be a power-house because that isn't their style. I would like them to try and take a more grown up approach to how they design it though. The 3DS does look like a kids toy. One would wish for a type of design thats more modern along the lines of an iphone or something.

The dual screens kind of force the clamshell design, which has its design limitations. Of course, it's perfectly possible they could pull a 2DS and have the two screen on one piece of plastic... But then the console loses its ability to be portable.

 

[nikatapi]

I still think Nintendo will be going with Qualcomm, mostly because the project manager at NTD who I assume is responsible for the next handheld is a former Qualcomm engineer.

So a Qualcomm solution for the next console as well? I suppose console and handheld will have the same base architecture so they can have a homogenous development environment for OS and games.

 

[sörine]

That's not an accurate comparison, because there's quite a bit of generational difference between launches.

Besides, the Famicom is contemporary to the Game & Watch. The GB is from the same generation as the SuperFamicom, GBC same as the N64, GBA - GC etc. Basically all the handhelds need to be upshifted.

At most, I can see the #DS having 1 GB LPDDR4 (I don't think Nintendo will go with LPDDR3, since DDR4 has better bandwidth and lower power reqs).

I'm comparing hardware performance not concurrent timelines. Of course concurrent handhelds have less memory, that goes without saying. For a performance comparison the Game & Watch series would be closest to the Color TV Game series.

For timelines the gaps are:

NES to GB: 6 years
NES to GBC: 15 years
SNES to GBA: 11 years
N64 to DS: 8 years
N64 to DSi: 12 years
GC to 3DS: 10 years
Wii to 3DS: 5 years
Wii U to ???: 4+ years

 

[tronic307]

I still think Nintendo will be going with Qualcomm, mostly because the project manager at NTD who I assume is responsible for the next handheld is a former Qualcomm engineer.

Snapdragon 808, maybe? Would it still be cross compatible if Nintendo used an AMD ARM64 APU for the console?

 

[veritassin]

Snapdragon 808, maybe? Would it still be cross compatible if Nintendo used an AMD ARM64 APU for the console?

Is the hardware going to matter at that point? It's just going to be NintendOS so the hardware shouldn't matter.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Then again, 720p is a huge waste of power. Compared to 480p, it would ask to display 2,25 times more pixels, which is a huge waste compared to the quality gain on such small screen.
I'd rather have that power used for better framerate, IQ, or effetcs. People are getting too much spoiled by smartphones. My Galaxy S4 has a 1080p screen, same as my TV. Yet, you can see that even new gen consoles have troubles with 1080p for the most demanding games.

I had a 480p phone and now I have a 720p phone and I couldn't disagree more...

At the rate mobile SoC advances, 720p will be fine. Anything less than that is a disaster, even more when people are experimenting already 1080p on their phones....

 

[Easy_D]

I had a 480p phone and now I have a 720p phone and I couldn't disagree more...

At the rate mobile SoC advances, 720p will be fine. Anything less than that is a disaster, even more when people are experimenting already 1080p on their phones....

Yep, tiny HD screens are fucking wondrous to look at.

 

[Reallink]

I'm not really so worried about resolution as PPI, they need to aim for around 300 or more if they want to compete with mobile and tablets.

They should also have the OG system similar screen size to the XL.

Thank you. Finally someone to say something smart about resolutions on handheld devices.

Just to point out the obvious, PPI is simply a function of resolution Vs. screen size, so this is ultimately what people are discussing and concerned with. You would be talking about a like 2.65" screen @ 480p to achieve 300ppi, so that's probably not something anyone wants to play on. 540p would require ~3.7", again, not something most people want to play on in 2016 (doubly so if it's a single screen design). Conveniently, 5" 720p is ~290PPI.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I still think Nintendo will be going with Qualcomm, mostly because the project manager at NTD who I assume is responsible for the next handheld is a former Qualcomm engineer.

It's definitely an interesting connection, but it doesn't guarantee he allowed his work to be biased towards his old employer. And while the person in question was in charge of meeting with vendors and assessing their product, the final decision was surely made in Japan. AMD have been a close partner of Nintendo for many years, and Nintendo don't seem to take those relationships for granted.

 

[Zeyphersan]

Yea and that sounds like a good thing and it also sounded like a crossbuy system what the other poster was talking about.

And I'm saying when the Xbox One had that system the backlash was FUCKING MASSIVE, and if Nintendo tried it they'd get crucified. Especially because they don't have an online system people trust, while Microsoft did. There is no chance that's the route they take.

 

[veritassin]

And I'm saying when the Xbox One had that system the backlash was FUCKING MASSIVE, and if Nintendo tried it they'd get crucified. Especially because they don't have an online system people trust, while Microsoft did. There is no chance that's the route they take.

I doubt it since it wouldn't be like the xbox one thing at all, it would be more like iPhones and iPads where if you own the software on one device you own it across all of your devices and any new devices that you get as well.

 

[blu]

Additionally, since they are looking to unify the architecture, Nintendo's home console might be capped at 4 GB of RAM, since the PPC750 is a 32-bit processor. I'm not sure if there's a workaround for that. Maybe blu would know...

I'm aware of only one 32bit PPC which features PAE, but that's a motorola G4 design. Anyway, address extensions is more of a multi-process thing, as it does not increase the address space of a single process, which is still limited to 32bit.

 

[Arkam]

4ds needs to be a media machine

Agreed. The lack of media utility is what keeps me on my phone/tablet for all things other than games. Netflix on 3ds vs iphone at the time was sad.

 

[Jinko]

Just to point out the obvious, PPI is simply a function of resolution Vs. screen size, so this is ultimately what people are discussing and concerned with. You would be talking about a like 2.65" screen @ 480p to achieve 300ppi, so that's probably not something anyone wants to play on. 540p would require ~3.7", again, not something most people want to play on in 2016 (doubly so if it's a single screen design). Conveniently, 5" 720p is ~290PPI.

Yup I think that would be a good target spec for the screen/s.

What with tablets and phones going above 480 PPI now it makes me wonder if they should target that instead though.

 

[AmyS]

Vita is mostly similar to iPad 3

GPU
Vita SGX543MP4+
iPad 3 SGX543MP4 (32 GFLOPS)

CPU
Vita ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore (quad core)
iPad 3 ARM Cortex-A9 MPCore (dual core)

Memory bandwidth
Vita ???
iPad 3 12.8 GB/sec

Yes.

I was trying to remember which iPad it was that had the same base GPU configuration as Vita. I think that was the iPad everyone kept calling "The New iPad" , so it was 3, Thanks for posting.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Would you be ok with ninty selling a sexy 2ds style pouch?

It depends on the size and form factor of whatever it is they're making. But generally, I don't want to worry about cases or any kind of extra bulk on my handhelds. I used to have a case for my DS Lite for the longest time, but when I took it off, I just suddenly liked the feel of my system so much more. It was easier to carry etc. I can still put my XL in a coat pocket despite its size. I also don't have to worry about outside elements scratching up the screen while also not having to deal with buttons/sticks sticking out.

 

[tronic307]

It's exactly the same? The original Xbox One system was that you'd buy a disc, and it would register that disc to your Xbox live account as if you'd bought the digital version. You wouldn't need the disc after that to play it, it was just this useless hunk of plastic you could use to reinstall the game instead of downloading it, I guess.

What he proposed is essentially the same thing. But a disc, register it to your account, it's now a digital download.

What about the handheld cartridge as the sole physical medium? It would unify the delivery format between form factors. Higher res assets could then be downloaded to the console.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

Yup I think that would be a good target spec for the screen/s.

What with tablets and phones going above 480 PPI now it makes me wonder if they should target that instead though.

That's such a waste for a gaming device though. Apple considers anything above 300 "retina", and I still think that would be unnecessarily high. Most games would end up being sub native which is far worse than having screen resolution being lower. Sub native games are fine (kind of) for consoles since Nintendo can't control what TVs people have, but it's just ridiculous for a device that they choose all the parts for.

 

[Waylon Drums]

I wouldn't mind it if the next Nintendo handheld had the SAME graphics capabilities as the 3DS with an "instant OS" that got me where I want to go, fast. Save states for every game AND app or a processor so quick that I can't tell the difference. I'm playing my 3DS a lot on vacation and it's so slow to get things going.

 

[Raistlin]

Well, it's a given that the 3DS successor will use a more conventional mobile architecture rather than something esoteric like PICA200, but I thought AMD wasn't in the mobile SOC market.

Handheld != Mobile in this context

 

[Jinko]

That's such a waste for a gaming device though. Apple considers anything above 300 "retina", and I still think that would be unnecessarily high. Most games would end up being sub native which is far worse than having screen resolution being lower. Sub native games are fine (kind of) for consoles since Nintendo can't control what TVs people have, but it's just ridiculous for a device that they choose all the parts for.

I don't see why most games would end up sub native.

I still find it odd that devs are releasing sub native games on Vita.

But agree that 480 is overkill, although there would be no need for AA at that DPI at least

 

[QaaQer]

C'mon, guys, we've been at this several times. Firstly, Nintendo doesn't do heavy-duty handhelds, and will be even less likely to go that way with Vita's market performance being what it is. Secondly, they need to go really cheap this time, nearly impulse-buy territory, while still keeping a healthy profit margin on hardware. They never liked the loss-leader model and are even less inclined to adopt it with their current fragile finances.

Moreover, their target audience in the west is going to be 99% under 12s. Kids don't give a shit about tech, resolution, etc. and just play whatever it is their parents give them. So, look for price to be as cheap as possible. And, as a nice bonus, the less powerful the hardware, the less expensive the games are to make.

I'm not sure what this has to do with AMD exec, and his desire to get in on handhelds though.

 

[Nikodemos]

I'm not sure what this has to do with AMD exec, and his desire to get in on handhelds though.

Well, these sorts of threads invariably start a debate on the merits of various pricepoints and the related tech level a designer could squeeze into a device for a given cost barrier.

 

[Snakeyes]

Vita has a decently powerful chip (similar to last year's ipad retina?) and still can't handle 540p in lots of games. I'd rather Nintendo pick a screen that will work well with the power they have available than go 720p and have games be sub-native. I guess for simpler games (like art academy) and for playing movies a higher res is handy, but 3DS isn't exactly a media machine so I don't think that should be a priority.

The Vita's chip is way, way below the one in last year's iPad.

 

[RM8]

People expecting Nintendo's next handheld to be a powerful media device are going to be so disappointed. I think Vita showed us that handhelds can't be people's main media device, unlike PSP back in the day. Cheap system, cheap good games, lots of them - that's what can make Nintendo's next handheld a success. No one is going to trade his/her iPad / iPhone for a Nintendo device, ever.

 

[boiled goose]

Nintendo needs a unified development strategy going forward.