sixteen-bit
Member
they must've heard his tape
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any fellow kids watching this new Netflix show "13 reasons why"?
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they must've heard his tape
GF and I have been watching this and though we're engaged and interested in where the story goes (I think we're on episode 8), we both feel very little sympathy for Hannah at the moment. At this point we are both of the belief that shit had to go SERIOUSLY bad for all of this to be justified, especially since her parents have thus far seemed very supportive.
She got her MA in infant mental health and her PhD in child/parent development and relationships. She's coded some studies using seriously traumatic experiences, so she finds a lot of the melodrama to be rather insulting to real people with real childhood/teenage trauma.
That said, we're open to seeing where it goes.
She got her MA in infant mental health and her PhD in child/parent development and relationships. She's coded some studies using seriously traumatic experiences, so she finds a lot of the melodrama to be rather insulting to real people with real childhood/teenage trauma.
That said, we're open to seeing where it goes.
Significantly worse, like had me tense as fuck and unable to not have my body flexed the fuck up
you will see. Just watch to the end. There's an important point to be had about 'melodrama'. And I know, I also felt that some of the earlier stuff was pretty melodramatic. But just keep watching.
Also, started reading the book. It's pretty good, and has some key differences from the show. The pace is also better. At the same time, there is less detail about each character.
Sunster
Member
i like the fact that hannah is not a martyred saint. it makes all the characters involved a little sympathetic.
except bryce of course
RedAssedApe
Banned
See the nuance between what you originally posted versus giving more context "I didn't enjoy it because of the last few episodes and the wrap up"? We can't read minds...so if someone says something is awful but they still completed it...people are going to question why.
Of course there are people who will simply feel like they need to finish something just because they started it...I'm sometimes like that (still trying to finish iron fist).
when I finished I ended up liking most characters even if their actions were wrong, mostly because I could understand what most of them were going though, specially Justin. there are exceptions, of course like that asshole.
In fact, the series made me sympathetic towards tyler. It makes a hard point about how he is treated in the whole season.
Exploratory
Banned
Watching Hannah commit suicide and
was pretty much the worst thing ever. Like...I couldn't handle it. I watched it but that took a lot out of me.
getting raped by Bryce
Ziltoidia 9
Member
The
suicide scene
Fuck Tyler and Courtney and Marcus and Bryce. No Sympathy for any of em. Tyler was a creep who happened to be bullied for being a geek. They cancelled out and made me not carer. Courtney...she made me sick. Marcus was a bitch and Bryce is ya know
Exploratory
Banned
I had similar problems in high school with being dense around girls. It seems obvious in hindsight but in the moment I was just as oblivious as Clay. Clay is definitely to make some people reflect on their own YA bullshit.
So I'm on tape 3 side B (episode 6) and I like it but man is every one super annoying.
Especially Clay. He doesn't listen to it all and starts extracting revenge. Every tape he just approaches the subject of the tape and starts to talk to them only to be told "stop" "drop it" or "listen to the whole thing dummy!"
No one finishes a conversation or a thought leading to drawn out plot points. Everyone just storms out.
Especially Clay. He doesn't listen to it all and starts extracting revenge. Every tape he just approaches the subject of the tape and starts to talk to them only to be told "stop" "drop it" or "listen to the whole thing dummy!"
No one finishes a conversation or a thought leading to drawn out plot points. Everyone just storms out.
RedAssedApe
Banned
yup. you also have to consider how clay had kind of his own traumatic experience with hannah
in the bedroom. if something happened like that with a girl...your self-esteem as a high school kid who already kind of lacked some self-confidence would be shot.
re:sheri
you wouldn't think that a cheerleader touching you on the arm or inviting you to coffee would mean that she was into you. then comes the megaton that she's also on the tapes too which makes Clay doubt her motives even more (albeit she comes across a lot better than the others)
Falcs
Banned
Yeah, that was hard to watch. But I think they did it so well. The whole point was that it was meant to be hard to watch. It was meant to make you uncomfortable. There is nothing pretty about suicide at all.
Did y'all watch the "13 Reasons Why: Beyond the Reasons" episode? Explains a bit of why they did it there.
Falcs
Banned
Yeah I felt the same at that point. If it were me I would have just listened to all the tapes in one night. But then I looked at it this way...
He acts like he was in love with her, which is probably why he struggles so much to listen to the tapes.
That scene was really difficult to watch.
JigglesBunny
Banned
I can't get past the first episode of this. I have spent all my life with depression, anxiety, and believe me, I have had more than my fair share of suicidal bouts.
Without even delving into the sophomoric writing (this might be the most "How do you do, fellow kids?" show of all time), the wooden, almost comically bad acting and the paint-by-numbers direction, the show itself and it's characters are insulting.
Hannah isn't portrayed like a victim here, she's made manipulative and cruel. The issue here is that suicide is a painful, tragic event that leaves nothing but confusion, sadness and misery for everyone left wondering what they could have done to help, why they weren't enough for the person, etc. Hannah uses these tapes not as a learning tool, but as a torture device. Her tone in the narration, it's almost mocking.
I can tell you with absolute confidence that never before have I felt like "I need to end my life, and fuck all of you for doing it to me." The whole tone of the show, it doesn't feel like the "educational tool" that everyone seems to hail it as. It's not alerting people to mental illness and suicide. It's not accurately portraying the teenage experience, or the impact that the loss of someone you care for can have on you at a fragile time in life.
The show feels bitter and out of touch. It feels like every after-school special that was shown on a roll-in TV in Freshman year but with a sadistic, mocking attitude towards everyone with mental illness and depression. It feels like your typical MTV-exploitation show built for young teens that don't truly understand the gravity of mental health issues.
Maybe the show gets better and I'm wrong. Maybe I'm too sensitive because I know what it's like to really feel the gravity of depression, what it's like to feel hopeless and have thoughts of ending your own life weighing down on you. Maybe my experiences with losing people to suicide were uncommon and they really do play out like an MTV scripted series. I just know that I never felt a bigger divide between general consensus and my own opinion on a show, film or otherwise. This isn't just poorly made, it's offensive. It's painfully offensive. The idea that this is what teenagers are watching and genuinely believing as an accurate portrayal of depression and suicide is terrifying. The misinformation was bad before, but it was mostly because of a lack of any information.
The notion that this is the exposure people are getting to mental illness and suicide is toxic. It won't only lead to more misinformation and misunderstanding, it'll lead to further normalization and perhaps even worse romanticization of mental illness.
Fuck man.
Without even delving into the sophomoric writing (this might be the most "How do you do, fellow kids?" show of all time), the wooden, almost comically bad acting and the paint-by-numbers direction, the show itself and it's characters are insulting.
Hannah isn't portrayed like a victim here, she's made manipulative and cruel. The issue here is that suicide is a painful, tragic event that leaves nothing but confusion, sadness and misery for everyone left wondering what they could have done to help, why they weren't enough for the person, etc. Hannah uses these tapes not as a learning tool, but as a torture device. Her tone in the narration, it's almost mocking.
I can tell you with absolute confidence that never before have I felt like "I need to end my life, and fuck all of you for doing it to me." The whole tone of the show, it doesn't feel like the "educational tool" that everyone seems to hail it as. It's not alerting people to mental illness and suicide. It's not accurately portraying the teenage experience, or the impact that the loss of someone you care for can have on you at a fragile time in life.
The show feels bitter and out of touch. It feels like every after-school special that was shown on a roll-in TV in Freshman year but with a sadistic, mocking attitude towards everyone with mental illness and depression. It feels like your typical MTV-exploitation show built for young teens that don't truly understand the gravity of mental health issues.
Maybe the show gets better and I'm wrong. Maybe I'm too sensitive because I know what it's like to really feel the gravity of depression, what it's like to feel hopeless and have thoughts of ending your own life weighing down on you. Maybe my experiences with losing people to suicide were uncommon and they really do play out like an MTV scripted series. I just know that I never felt a bigger divide between general consensus and my own opinion on a show, film or otherwise. This isn't just poorly made, it's offensive. It's painfully offensive. The idea that this is what teenagers are watching and genuinely believing as an accurate portrayal of depression and suicide is terrifying. The misinformation was bad before, but it was mostly because of a lack of any information.
The notion that this is the exposure people are getting to mental illness and suicide is toxic. It won't only lead to more misinformation and misunderstanding, it'll lead to further normalization and perhaps even worse romanticization of mental illness.
Fuck man.
Trust me been there. I was Clay HS. His inability to listen to the tapes before he decides to confront people is just unnatural and just a vehicle for the flashacks.
Still it's enjoyable
1. You apparently cant get past the first episode and yet you have so much to say about the show, which isnt quite right.
2. You simply provide a different perspective. As someone who also deals with this shit, a lot of it made sense to me.
edit; and i will admit, i wasnt much on board with the show with the first 2 episodes or so. But kept watching and turned out i felt it did a pretty good job with some serious issues.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Ok I just finished this.
I'm a wreck. This show destroyed me.
Please... educate your kids so they don't become assholes who destroy other people's lives. I've been bullied pretty hard and it fucking sucks. Maybe it's part of why I'm all depressed and fucked up now, as an adult.
I don't think anyone deserves this kind of thing.
I'm a wreck. This show destroyed me.
Please... educate your kids so they don't become assholes who destroy other people's lives. I've been bullied pretty hard and it fucking sucks. Maybe it's part of why I'm all depressed and fucked up now, as an adult.
I don't think anyone deserves this kind of thing.
It's been a week since I finished it. I still haven't fully recovered from it. It's a great show. But it felt so real to me that I can't help but feel terrible after going through it. It's definitely something that will stay with me for a long time.
Personally, as someone who has been suicidal and had no issues with the show, I have a problem with someone watching one episode and acting as if they can judge the entire show. Maybe watch the show before giving a 7 paragraph writeup on it.
I throughly enjoyed the show, but i can see where he's going on. The simples fact that Hannah made the tapes for people that did bad stuff to her but nothing to her parents to know what the heck happened shows that she wanted a bit of revenge.
And i understand her. She's not a perfect person (that's Jeff) and the series shows that. Just like life, we can be good without being flawless or be bad without being a complete asshole. The "heroes" are flawed and the villains are not bad for the sake of being bad. I think that's cool.
I think one thing that deserved to be expanded was how much of an unreliable narrator Hannah was. Clay takes her words as gospel most of the times since he likes her so much, but i think this ends being a bit complicated for her character. Even the writers said that Hannah set up a trap in the last tape, but going by Clay's opinion, she did nothing.
I actually like, cause it shows that he really liked her and make his character stronger, but since Hannah is the narrator and Clay is the hero, it can make things a bit blurred to judge fairly.
Instead of a new season, we should have a prequel starring Jeff called "13 reasons why i'm awesome" where he retroactively saved Hannah, the school and the whole country.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Liked the show, but I didnt understand why
some of them didnt go to the police. Like Alex or Zach.... their stuff isnt anything compared to Tyler, Marcus or Justin.
And you can say "Maybe nobody is perfect", but trying to hide the fact that someone raped two people just because "I am gay" or "I published a poem in the school paper"... seems kinda unrealistic imo
And you can say "Maybe nobody is perfect", but trying to hide the fact that someone raped two people just because "I am gay" or "I published a poem in the school paper"... seems kinda unrealistic imo
well, the immediate answer would be that up to the last episodes, everyone was thinking that hannah lied, jessica was advocating pretty hard on that.
zach is really a shy and timid person even if he hangs out with the "cool boys," he wouldn't do that. Marcus is just an asshole that doesn't really care, kind of narcissistic.
now, about tyler and courtney... just imagine what would happen to them if they told, remember bryce has his connections, he is a kind of a dangerous person, and Justin just makes everything worse.
the other answer would be what clay's mom explained, there isn't really a case when the victim is dead or doesn't want to talk about it and there are no witnesses, what would anyone be pursuing? for most it is just better to shut up, the tapes aren't going to single handedly win a case.
that could change later, of course, as jessica woke up to what happened and clay recording half of bryce confession.
now, about tyler and courtney... just imagine what would happen to them if they told, remember bryce has his connections, he is a kind of a dangerous person, and Justin just makes everything worse.
the other answer would be what clay's mom explained, there isn't really a case when the victim is dead or doesn't want to talk about it and there are no witnesses, what would anyone be pursuing? for most it is just better to shut up, the tapes aren't going to single handedly win a case.
that could change later, of course, as jessica woke up to what happened and clay recording half of bryce confession.
DarkLordMalik
Member
This show destroyed me. I don't know how long it will take to get it off my mind 
Insane Metal
Gold Member
This show destroyed me. I don't know how long it will take to get it off my mind
I feel you, bro. It's really tough
RedAssedApe
Banned
Afterbuzz TV channel on youtube has been putting up videos once a week with episode discussion and special guests:
Half the hosts are kind of meh. Not very articulate for being in front of a camera but I like the interviews with the people involved with the show. Its kind of nice not seeing the same interviews over and over with Clay/Hannah and Selena Gomez.
week 1: the author
week 2: jessica, ryan, sadie (i'm not the only one who doesn't remember this character right? lol)
week 3: two of the producers
There's also a channel that does a 40 minute interview with best boy Jeff. hehe
And Bryce was on Power 106 in Los Angeles. Cool that more of the cast is getting out there and promoting the show.
Half the hosts are kind of meh. Not very articulate for being in front of a camera but I like the interviews with the people involved with the show. Its kind of nice not seeing the same interviews over and over with Clay/Hannah and Selena Gomez.
week 1: the author
week 2: jessica, ryan, sadie (i'm not the only one who doesn't remember this character right? lol)
week 3: two of the producers
There's also a channel that does a 40 minute interview with best boy Jeff. hehe
And Bryce was on Power 106 in Los Angeles. Cool that more of the cast is getting out there and promoting the show.
do you have links to the videos?
RedAssedApe
Banned
yeah sorry. i updated my post with links. haha
Sectorseven
Member
Alex's nose ring is really awful. Every time I see it I think he has snot hanging.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Was that one photographer kid
?
planning a school shooting
blame space
Banned
🤔
RedAssedApe
Banned
Poor miles. Pretty sure that's not part of the character and he sports that thing irl.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
I guess I was just in shock but I guess it makes sense considering he's a bully victim too. That they just kind of left that thread of the story hanging is chilling.
And yeah, Hannah's suicide is one of the roughest things I've seen on TV.
Sevenfold
Member
Well I'm so far removed from the target audience I thought this would be turned off before episode 1 was done. I only tried it because I was surprised to really enjoy Life is Strange. I just finished the tape 13 after failing to get through it last night.
Just gonna spoiler the lot...
Just gonna spoiler the lot...
I couldn't cope with the bath scene. My whole body was tingling and I thought I was going to pass out! That was a brutal drawing out of one of the most horrific moments I've seen on screen. I felt like the only witness. It was awful. I'm 40 years old and can count the number of times media has broken me on one hand with change, yet this shook me and slapped me. I made it up to the scene with Tony and his boyfriend, just after the awkward exchange with Hannah's mum, where he opens up about the conflict between his promise and the problems it was beginning to reveal, yeah, that got me. I'm a mess now from the last episode. Really didn't expect this.
I don't relate to stuff about high school. It's always about the cool kids or the suspect loners or the groups (UK here but same applies to US as far as I've seen. There's a lot of me at school in Clay. Got friends but pretty much invisible. Never the cause of drama all that stuff. It's rare that I connect this well with any character let alone an American teenage lad!
I'm not well up on the genre but this is brave TV right? It seems to deal with so many issues. Part of me wants to say some of feels a bit forced but that very thing is one of the issues it deals with. Hannah in the office with Porter was a fucking minefield. I wanted to hide behind the sofa. In fact it's a good job that Clay is much more emotionless throughout. I don't mean he's cold. At least not intentionally. I think it's important to the development of his arc and our experience that he remain neutral. Of course that adds weight to the sledgehammer when his part is finally revealed. One of many things about this show that will stay with me. Hannah being one of the strongest and most intune with herself and her surroundings is another.
I've only read a couple of posts on this page but I'm seeing others genuinely shaken by the show. I hope this gets the praise it deserves.
I don't relate to stuff about high school. It's always about the cool kids or the suspect loners or the groups (UK here but same applies to US as far as I've seen. There's a lot of me at school in Clay. Got friends but pretty much invisible. Never the cause of drama all that stuff. It's rare that I connect this well with any character let alone an American teenage lad!
I'm not well up on the genre but this is brave TV right? It seems to deal with so many issues. Part of me wants to say some of feels a bit forced but that very thing is one of the issues it deals with. Hannah in the office with Porter was a fucking minefield. I wanted to hide behind the sofa. In fact it's a good job that Clay is much more emotionless throughout. I don't mean he's cold. At least not intentionally. I think it's important to the development of his arc and our experience that he remain neutral. Of course that adds weight to the sledgehammer when his part is finally revealed. One of many things about this show that will stay with me. Hannah being one of the strongest and most intune with herself and her surroundings is another.
I've only read a couple of posts on this page but I'm seeing others genuinely shaken by the show. I hope this gets the praise it deserves.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
I was right there with you in the beginning.
Sadly, it gets much worse. But even then the story isn't so much about any one event or trauma pushing someone to suicide. It's death by a thousand cuts, a perfect storm of fucked up decisions, indifference, and lack of empathy.
I agree unless they follow a different kid and tell a different story but maybe with the same theme (some one leaving some form of reasons why they killed themselves or maybe why they shot up the school or something like that).
Though I really would have wanted about 30 minutes to an hour more of wrapping up current story and learning what happens to Bryce. But I think not knowing is intentional and has a reason. I just still want to know anyways even if it would cheapen the ending.
Sadly I kept hoping for this the entire show. I think
the suicide scene is partly there to hammer in that yes she did kill herself. It was needed for people like me but man that was a hard scene for me
Courtney bascially throws her under the bus and helps cement her already bad/undeserved reputation. And just continuously does so because she doesn't want to face that she is gay. I sympathize with the latter part but Courtney is still a bad person for throwing some one else in the same shit storm she fears.
And By honor roll guy I am guessing you mean Marcus? How in the world do you see him as not a bad person?! He fucking makes her wait an hour specifically to test if she's "easy", brings all his friends to watch him win a score (which is already humiliating enough to Hannah), and then mocks her when it backfires on him when she isn't as easy as he was hoping. And no girl with any self respect and intelligence would be easy at that point cause in a way he already was mocking her by setting that up and she was smart enough to notice it. You have to be as dense as zach (who I don't think was a bad person but was stupid) was when he excuses Marcus the next day and is surprised Hannah gets upset by that. Marcus may not be Bryce but he's a step or two away from it. The biggest difference is he cares more about how people see him and is at least more aware of that not every female wants him, that he's not a king that can do whatever and people will still see him as King.
One of the things I dislike about the show is they seem to downplay how bad Marcus's role at the end (only focusing on him wanting to cover up as his "sin" so to speak). Marcus fully deserves to be on those tapes and he never really even shows any redemption or even that he cares in the end. It's all about his rep and that's all he gives a shit about. He is not a good person.
And By honor roll guy I am guessing you mean Marcus? How in the world do you see him as not a bad person?! He fucking makes her wait an hour specifically to test if she's "easy", brings all his friends to watch him win a score (which is already humiliating enough to Hannah), and then mocks her when it backfires on him when she isn't as easy as he was hoping. And no girl with any self respect and intelligence would be easy at that point cause in a way he already was mocking her by setting that up and she was smart enough to notice it. You have to be as dense as zach (who I don't think was a bad person but was stupid) was when he excuses Marcus the next day and is surprised Hannah gets upset by that. Marcus may not be Bryce but he's a step or two away from it. The biggest difference is he cares more about how people see him and is at least more aware of that not every female wants him, that he's not a king that can do whatever and people will still see him as King.
One of the things I dislike about the show is they seem to downplay how bad Marcus's role at the end (only focusing on him wanting to cover up as his "sin" so to speak). Marcus fully deserves to be on those tapes and he never really even shows any redemption or even that he cares in the end. It's all about his rep and that's all he gives a shit about. He is not a good person.
This is exactly why some people think it's a cheap and disrespectful portrayal of suicidal tendencies. It's a conveniently perfect storm of papercuts that doesn't fairly characterize most serious mental health issues or other forms of abuse that drive people to this point, along with her getting the satisfaction of massive attention and vengeance for her act, which most suicide victims don't get.
But that's not necessarily my opinion, it's just a common argument I'm seeing. I don't think it's unwarranted.
I'm wondering what direction or what the show is trying to get at by
This is obviously a very touchy and difficult subject and it would suck to have a fallout from a tragedy leading into a even greater tragedy without showing the proper insight and care into it.
hinting Tyler is planning a school shooting, due to the result of being singled out even among the responsible.
I disagree here. I think this complaint is better shown with Marcus (while I complain the show at the end downplays Marcus's bad side I also don't think it really fleshes him out as much, as if it had so much other stuff to show he kinda gets forgotten except his role as "bad guy". Probably also why his bad side gets downplayed as well, his character is mostly forgotten except for when the story needs him). I agree with some one else they really don't explore much his personality, only really his bad side. Bryce... you can see he does have some sort of "honor" at least with guys. I think some one said it right, Bryce is a good depiction of mysogeny. He really doesn't see femaels as anything but subjects to his whims. But he does treat guys well, even the guy that is fighting him. Even with Justin's defense if you didn't see Bryce's bad side you'd thin he was this really upstanding guy (helps keep a troubled kid out of trouble even when his mom won't).
I honestly think Bryce thinks he's an upstanding guy (even though he's a monster). He just doesn't seem females as anything other than objects really. I think he doesn't even have a strong awareness that what he does is rape, I think he has a weak awareness that some people seem to think it is (and even then I think he downplays how horrible other people see it). I think that is also what helps make him seem so monstrous... that he does see himself as a good guy and actually tries.. but that he so views females so little he doesn't even notice how monstrous he really is if you are not the right sex.
I'm not saying Bryce is a good guy, I totally see him as a complete monster (part of him being a monster though is he is not aware of females having feelings other than to worship him). But he is not depicted as black and white either.
I honestly think Bryce thinks he's an upstanding guy (even though he's a monster). He just doesn't seem females as anything other than objects really. I think he doesn't even have a strong awareness that what he does is rape, I think he has a weak awareness that some people seem to think it is (and even then I think he downplays how horrible other people see it). I think that is also what helps make him seem so monstrous... that he does see himself as a good guy and actually tries.. but that he so views females so little he doesn't even notice how monstrous he really is if you are not the right sex.
I'm not saying Bryce is a good guy, I totally see him as a complete monster (part of him being a monster though is he is not aware of females having feelings other than to worship him). But he is not depicted as black and white either.
batman2million
Member
The wife and I are about 4 episodes in and i'm not enjoying it. I do think it's directed and acted very well but the writing isn't engaging. Gonna spoiler most of it just to be safe.
But, I'm hoping this all pays off some how. That there's something marginally enticing that Clay will find out after going through all of the tapes.
Too many coincidences for me to find it believable. Clay being at the right place at the right time for X to happen to supplement the plot or provide some character context. IMO, that's just bad writing.
A lot of little things are also getting annoying like everyone being so damn ominous about the tapes or just everything in general just to make the plot some glaring weight.
A lot of little things are also getting annoying like everyone being so damn ominous about the tapes or just everything in general just to make the plot some glaring weight.
But, I'm hoping this all pays off some how. That there's something marginally enticing that Clay will find out after going through all of the tapes.
To be fair I've managed to watch a lot of a show that I absolutely hated (Merlin comes to mind)... because there were parts I wanted to like but at least some parts were so bad that I finally just had to put the show down (I really could not stand the king or the fact the show kept acting like I was supposed to see him as a good but flawed guy, he was a fucking monster and it really bugs me when a character I'm supposed to at least see as one of the good guys is the most evil one in the show).. and was happier for it. But it took me a while to get to that point because I liked the potential for the show and kept hoping it would improve.
So im just 5 episodes in but what confuses me is why is she being Bullied?
She got the looks (jocks wanted her), she got the butt, she got a socialable personality, had a popular friend in Kat, then a soon to be popular friend in Jessica.
Why is she being shunned? Not seeing a good reason for me. I understand it can happen, but doesnt connect for me in that area.
I probably wont read any response to this until i finish the season. I do enjoy it though. Should be done in 2 or 3 days.
Main boy character is annoying though.
She got the looks (jocks wanted her), she got the butt, she got a socialable personality, had a popular friend in Kat, then a soon to be popular friend in Jessica.
Why is she being shunned? Not seeing a good reason for me. I understand it can happen, but doesnt connect for me in that area.
I probably wont read any response to this until i finish the season. I do enjoy it though. Should be done in 2 or 3 days.
Main boy character is annoying though.
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