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[Skyzard]

At least 30 Syrian civilians were killed in an air strike by the US-led coalition fighting Islamic State militants in a rural area of Raqqa province early on Tuesday, according to residents, activists and state television.

The US-led coalition said it had no indications an air strike had hit civilians, but in its daily report on coalition strikes, the US military acknowledged that strikes were carried out in the area. It said that on Tuesday, coalition warplanes carried out 19 air strikes – an unusually high number for a single day – on a range of Islamic State facilities near the city of Raqqa.

The attack, which hit a school in the town of Mansoura, where civilians had taken shelter on Tuesday night, was the second time in a week that Syrians had accused the United States of involvement in a strike that killed dozens of noncombatants.

The US military said it was investigating whether civilians had been killed in that airstrike. In Raqqa, the Islamic State's self-declared capital, hundreds of people who fled their homes in other parts of Syria were sheltering in the school, according to residents and to the group Raqqa Is Being Slaughtered Silently, a team of activists originally from Raqqa who monitor the conflict.

The death toll is expected to rise, according to local activists, who said bodies were still being pulled from the rubble and many families were unaccounted for.

Forty-nine people died last week when US warplanes fired on a target in Al Jinah, a village in western Aleppo province. US officials said the attack had hit a building where al-Qaeda operatives were meeting, but residents said the warplanes had struck a mosque where hundreds of people had gathered for a weekly religious meeting.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...after-air-strike-hits-syrian-school-1.3020369

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...lled-air-strike-isil-held-raqqa-hits-shelter/

https://twitter.com/Raqqa_SL/status/844650085422153728

 

[Shaanyboi]

Jesus christ...

 

[Platy]

So how is that Genebra Convention doing these days ?

 

[Omadahl]

No wonder we're hated. I hate us too right now for a lot of reasons.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Genuine question...what is the benfit to these airstrikes? Are we gaining anything? This makes my blood boil everytime I see these kind of stories.

 

[sirap]

No wonder we're hated. I hate us too right now for a lot of reasons.

Right? You'd think this would be pretty obvious by now, but I still see people throw their hands up in confusion and shout "what did we ever do to them?!!"

 

[RinsFury]

Ugh....so goddamn horrible. I would hate us too.

 

[Sunster]

Right? You'd think this would be pretty obvious by now, but I still see people throw their hands up in confusion and shout "what did we ever do to them?!!"

they hate our way of life

 

[littleworm]

Genuine question...what is the benfit to these airstrikes? Are we gaining anything? This makes my blood boil everytime I see these kind of stories.

Targeting a terrorist organization that has committed acts of genocide, carried out mass executions, used chemical weapons, undertaken terrorist attacks in several countries, leaving tens of thousands dead? Make no mistake, we should take every effort to ensure in an ideal situation no civilians are killed, however this is sadly impossible, but to act as if killing 30+ civilians was the goal of this operation is stupid.

 

[casiopao]

In the end, any sides is just as evil as any sides. Russia bomb hospital, USA bomb Schools.

While ISIS is still alive and kicking. What a joke.T_T

 

[How About No]

jesus christ

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Business as usual, I see.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Fucking President Trump.

(Presidents get blamed for these things regardless right?)

 

[victreeb3l]

Depressing.

 

[see5harp]

Whelp. I guess we all getting sued.

 

[Blablurn]

What were the people behind this thinking?

 

[Reverend Funk]

The world is a cold dark place

 

[Usobuko]

What were the people behind this thinking?

"It's just brown people anyway"

 

[Clydefrog]

Fucking hell. You'd think we'd have the technology.. I guess not. Disgusting.

 

[Ashes]

Wonder how Fox news commentators will explain this. Terrorists hiding in schools.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

fuck...

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Wonder how Fox news commentators will explain this. Terrorists hiding in schools.

They won't talk about it

 

[Desperado]

Targeting a terrorist organization that has committed acts of genocide, carried out mass executions, used chemical weapons, undertaken terrorist attacks in several countries, leaving tens of thousands dead? Make no mistake, we should take every effort to ensure in an ideal situation no civilians are killed, however this is sadly impossible, but to act as if killing 30+ civilians was the goal of this operation is stupid.

I'm curious how many civilian deaths has the US military caused in the Middle East since 9/11.

 

[jetjevons]

Just deplorable.

 

[littleworm]

I'm curious how many civilian deaths has the US military caused in the Middle East since 9/11.

Depends on who you ask and what you want to count. Numbers range form over one hundred thousand to over a million in Iraq alone, no one really knows. The numbers would get even murkier if we tried to limit the numbers to exclusively civilian deaths as a direct result of us/coalition actions. However this has no bearing on current Allied actions in Syria and Iraq. Neither You, I, or anyone else can undo the mistakes that have happened, we can only move forward from here. So we are left with a plethora of bad options. We can abandon the conflict with ISIS leaving the local forces to deal with it themselves. Ensuring the conflict lasts many more years and allowing ISIS to continue its inhumane rule over hundreds of thousands of people in Syria and Iraq. All while waiting for rescue by groups who have had far worse records in regards to civilian casualties than the Collation forces, or by groups that don't have the ability to even defeat ISIS. Or we can continue with our efforts and work with our allies on the ground to push ISIS back, work to minimize civilian casualties , and provide aid to those affected and reparations for the families of those killed.

 

[Monochromaticx]

So can they sue America? No? Ok

 

[TheRedSnifit]

In the end, any sides is just as evil as any sides. Russia bomb hospital, USA bomb Schools.

While ISIS is still alive and kicking. What a joke.T_T

I mean, Russia is deliberately ignoring ISIS so they can bomb the enemies of Assad (who has killed more people in this conflict than anybody) and claim he's the "lesser of two evils."

"Both sides" doesn't really work in this context, and the reality is that civilian deaths are inevitable in any conflict, especially when your goal is to dislodge an army that controls the entire city.

 

[Skyzard]

Depends on who you ask and what you want to count. Numbers range form over one hundred thousand to over a million in Iraq alone, no one really knows. The numbers would get even murkier if we tried to limit the numbers to exclusively civilian deaths as a direct result of us/coalition actions. However this has no bearing on current Allied actions in Syria and Iraq. Neither You, I, or anyone else can undo the mistakes that have happened, we can only move forward from here. So we are left with a plethora of bad options. We can abandon the conflict with ISIS leaving the local forces to deal with it themselves. Ensuring the conflict lasts many more years and allowing ISIS to continue its inhumane rule over hundreds of thousands of people in Syria and Iraq. All while waiting for rescue by groups who have had far worse records in regards to civilian casualties than the Collation forces, or by groups that don't have the ability to even defeat ISIS. Or we can continue with our efforts and work with our allies on the ground to push ISIS back, work to minimize civilian casualties , and provide aid to those affected and reparations for the families of those killed.

What's being done?

Perhaps people should be able to sue so that mistakes like these don't keep happening again and again.

Maybe then they'll be more careful about what and how they're bombing before pulling the trigger.

Wonder how Fox news commentators will explain this. Terrorists hiding in schools.

They won't talk about it

.

 

[Discotheque]

So how is that Genebra Convention doing these days ?

Genebra lmao

This is disgusting news but I hate to say that I'm desensitized by it all at this point. The US and it's allies will continue to kill numerous children and then we'll get the usual people defending it or deflecting towards terrorist atrocities

Same old awful shit. Never getting better in our lifetime

 

[Ashes]

They won't talk about it

There's that also.

 

[Barajas_201]

Really exceptional work there America, really showing us the rest of the world your virtues huh.

 

[Ashes]

Genebra lmao

This is disgusting news but I hate to say that I'm desensitized by it all at this point. The US and it's allies will continue to kill numerous children and then we'll get the usual people defending it or deflecting towards terrorist atrocities

Same old awful shit. Never getting better in our lifetime

There's also the possibility that we empathise less with those who are different to us.

If this possibility is true, then the only thing we can do, is to be aware of our brain being like this and account for it by intellectually​ engaging with what is actually happening. We/our allies dropped a bomb on a school, and the world didn't blink.

Having said that, I'm inclined to agree with you and think it is the former in regards to Syria. Syria is like Vietnam​ but in our era in that we've become​ casual to the extreme and deadly use of force in the region.
Perhaps the public will grow weary of war after Syria.

 

[haimon]

What were the people behind this thinking?

We have intelligence that isis are using the school to hide in. Also we don't think it's being used as an actual school and there are no civilians during the time we strike.

 

[littleworm]

What's being done?

Perhaps people should be able to sue so that mistakes like these don't keep happening again and again.

Maybe then they'll be more careful about what they're bombing.

What's being done is the the SDF/YPG forces we have allied with and aided in Syria have captured tens of of thousands of square miles of land from ISIS and liberated hundreds of cities, towns, and villages. Changing the layout of Syria form This to This. This is ignoring the gains the Iraqi's have made liberating cities like Tikirt, Fallujah, Ramadi, and soon Mosul. ISIS as a group that can hold and maintain territory is on the way out (though ISIS will continue to exist as an insurgent force for years to come) in large part due to Coalition airstrikes aiding our allies on the ground.

As I have stated we should aid those families of civilians killed as a result of our ongoing war effort, though no amount of material aid financial or otherwise could ever "compensate" for the lost of loved ones. We should also take every reasonable effort to minimize civilian deaths with the goal always being to achieve no civilian deaths. However we can not put ourselves in a place where we are unable to act against ISIS or future terrorist threats because we can never guarantee zero civilian deaths in these types of conflicts. ISIS and groups like them will always use civilians as shields against its enemies so they can continue to carry out any number of horrible acts to enact their "caliphate"

 

[Breads]

An airstrike where civilians were taken shelter.

Fucking abysmal.

 

[GhostWriter24]

This is so disgusting...

 

[Skyzard]

What's being done is the the SDF/YPG forces we have allied with and aided in Syria have captured tens of of thousands of square miles of land from ISIS and liberated hundreds of cities, towns, and villages. Changing the layout of Syria form This to This. This is ignoring the gains the Iraqi's have made liberating cities like Tikirt, Fallujah, Ramadi, and soon Mosul. ISIS as a group that can hold and maintain territory is on the way out (though ISIS will continue to exist as an insurgent force for years to come) in large part due to Coalition airstrikes aiding our allies on the ground.

As I have stated we should aid those families of civilians killed as a result of our ongoing war effort, though no amount of material aid financial or otherwise could ever "compensate" for the lost of loved ones. We should also take every reasonable effort to minimize civilian deaths with the goal always being to achieve no civilian deaths. However we can not put ourselves in a place where we are unable to act against ISIS or future terrorist threats because we can never guarantee zero civilian deaths in these types of conflicts. ISIS and groups like them will always use civilians as shields against its enemies so they can continue to carry out any number of horrible acts to enact their "caliphate"

We should also take every reasonable effort to minimize civilian deaths with the goal always being to achieve no civilian deaths

^ That's what I'm asking about, because it's all very good to say that but with how often civilian places are being bombed and killed, it seems no where near enough effort is being made.

A "we aren't aware of any civilian deaths" or "whoopsie" everytime shouldn't cut it.

 

[old]

Trump is going to drag us into a war. He's probably readying the troops already.

 

[PAULINK]

Drone strikes are such a bad idea.

 

[littleworm]

^ That's what I'm asking about, because it's all very good to say that but with how often civilian places are being bombed, it seems no where near enough effort is being made.

While I most definitely lack the knowledge to give a real proper answer to this question we have to rely on the intelligence we receive, either from intercepted communications, information provided to us by informants and allies on the ground, or observation from our drones and aircraft. However all these forms of intelligence gathering are imperfect. Even after that the decision has to be made by imperfect humans. That is one of the sad truths of war, sometimes everything comes up right and the building is housing Bin-Laden other times what you thought was an ISIS HQ or convoy was a group of civilians.

 

[Any Questions]

How did this get signed off. Targeting buildings should require eyes on the ground to confirm targets are inside. Can't believe the missile missed.

Who signed off blowing up a building full off folks who's primary fault in life is trying to survive in a god damn civil war.

 

[Buzzman]

Of course this is horrific, but I'm not as quick to condemn this as most other occasions. Raqqa is the capital of ISIS, and it's impossible to reduce civilian casualties to zero when you're trying to destroy an enemy who has control of the entire city.

 

[Skyzard]

While I most definitely lack the knowledge to give a real proper answer to this question we have to rely on the intelligence we receive, either from intercepted communications, information provided to us by informants and allies on the ground, or observation from our drones and aircraft. However all these forms of intelligence gathering are imperfect. Even after that the decision has to be made by imperfect humans. That is one of the sad truths of war, sometimes everything comes up right and the building is housing Bin-Laden other times what you thought was an ISIS HQ or convoy was a group of civilians.

They need to make damn sure what they're bombing is what they think it is.

Their sources or whatever the fuck they're using isn't enough, clearly.

It's not acceptable and it keeps happening. It's careless and incompetent.

And yet nothing appears to ever be done about it, other than a standard statement of minimising civilian casualties. How exactly? I understand you aren't in a position to answer that, but I'm sick of hearing just that line everytime this happens.

 

[littleworm]

They need to make damn sure what they're bombing is what they think it is.

Their sources or whatever the fuck they're using isn't enough.

It's not acceptable and it keeps happening. It's careless.

We only have the ability to do so much. Short of having some minority report pre-cognition ability or some sci-fi style robot army we will never be able to 100% verify every target doesn't contain civilians.

 

[Skyzard]

We only have the ability to do so much. Short of having some minority report pre-cognition ability or some sci-fi style robot army we will never be able to 100% verify every target doesn't contain civilians.

How about a source on the ground. Or a drone that flies past and checks before you bomb a school or a hospital.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Acceptable collateral damage of war if there indeed were civilians present I guess :/ Won't surprise me if ISIS use human shields inside buildings for these occasions too.

Monsters.

 

[Anticol]

But the Americans are always the good guys.

 

[Nostremitus]

It's probable IS was using the school as a headquarters and brought civilians in as human shields under the guise of protection. It would not remotely be the first time. The problem with this tactic is that those carrying out the strikes need to know about it for it to work.

The building being an old school doesn't mean anything since IS shut most of the schools down. It was just a building to them.

Looks like propaganda to me.

 

[littleworm]

How about a source on the ground. Or a drone that flies past and checks before you bomb a school or a hospital.

Because what you are asking is impossible. We can't send people into every building to verify its completely empty of civilians, they would be killed. Also while our drone technology is highly advanced we don't have one that can drop to a few hundred feet of the ground and idle to verify all the people in the area, though hopefully one day soon we will be able to field a large number of micro drones that can get far closer to targets then out current drone platforms.

 

[Skyzard]

Because what you are asking is impossible. We can't send people into every building to verify its completely empty of civilians, they would be killed. Also while our drone technology is highly advanced we don't have one that can drop to a few hundred feet of the ground and idle to verify all the people in the area, though hopefully one day soon we will be able to field a large number of micro drones that can get far closer to targets then out current drone platforms.

Use binoculars and see who are going into and out of the building.

This sounds like it was completely packed with families.

Aren't the satellites pretty damn good these days too.

Just seems like they don't put the effort in to actually minimise civilian casualties as keeps getting repeated for each event, which is way too common.