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AusPoliGaf |Early 2016 Election| - the government's term has been... Shortened

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Leader of party with deputy that holds citizenship to foreign country accuses other party of being in cahoots with said country.


There is also this i guess: https://twitter.com/jacindaardern/status/897288769614643200

Also I am guessing the Labor members must be pretty clean given the lack of dirt so far?

Labor apparently has a very rigorous screening process including 2 generations back and lawyers. That could potentially leave you vulnerable to Communicable Italian Citizenship if you're great-grandparents were still alive at the time but would cover most things.

If I was going to try and hit them on ineligibility I'd look at the office of profit / pecuniary interest clause. The Court made a wider interpretation than has been the historical standard in the Day case, so it's possible Labor's vetting didn't pick up something potentially interesting.
 
Also I am guessing the Labor members must be pretty clean given the lack of dirt so far?

I remember seeing that Turnbull offered some kind of peace if any labor ministers wanted to come forward, so they could work on a solution. It was rejected so they'd want to be pretty confident.
 
This morning Chris Pyne was basically threatening every Labor member that looked like they were born overseas or happened to have a 'woggy' surname. This government is legit shook and is swinging at everything.

The New Zealand equivalent of Peter Dutton is pouring cold water on the conspiracy.

wE7BZ61.jpg


If I was going to try and hit them on ineligibility I'd look at the office of profit / pecuniary interest clause. The Court made a wider interpretation than has been the historical standard in the Day case, so it's possible Labor's vetting didn't pick up something potentially interesting.

Though that would put David Gillespe back in the spotlight, something they would want to avoid.
 

Shandy

Member
Even if it was Hipkins, would it matter? Does that somehow turn Joyce into a victim of something other than his own bumbling stupidity? So desperate to point fingers anywhere other than where they should.
 

Dryk

Member
As much as I'm enjoying the comments about the Greens coming back to bite them, I'm starting to wonder if all this blatant hypocrisy will erode faith in the system as a whole.
 

danm999

Member
As much as I'm enjoying the comments about the Greens coming back to bite them, I'm starting to wonder if all this blatant hypocrisy will erode faith in the system as a whole.

Until a Labor MP is scalped it's just going to look like the LNP are sloppy.
 
I got a notification about Shorten putting the trans-Tasman relationship in jeopardy. A desperate, absurd claim. It's not like another underarm bowl.
 

Quasar

Member
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...rnaby-joyce-high-court-referral-politics-live

Labor’s Tony Burke to Julie Bishop: I refer to the Foreign Minister’s extraordinary press conference today where the Minister announced that Australia’s relationship with New Zealand would be undermined by the partisan politics of New Zealand’s next election. If the foreign minister won’t be able to work with the New Zealanders, how will the foreign minister be able to work with the Deputy Prime Minister?

:)
 
I wonder if Barnaby will use the ultimate out?

DHPj-VKUMAEjIRr.jpg


Another one? Lib MP Anne Sudmalis is now scrambling to prove/disprove her potential British Citizenship. She was the one that described the reduction in Sunday penalty rates as "a gift for young workers." She then cried crocodile tears when the ALP went after her and accused them of misogyny.

Gilmore is a very marginal Lib seat that has slowly been going Labor for years now.
 
I wonder if Barnaby will use the ultimate out?

DHPj-VKUMAEjIRr.jpg


Another one? Lib MP Anne Sudmalis is now scrambling to prove/disprove her potential British Citizenship. She was the one that described the reduction in Sunday penalty rates as "a gift for young workers." She then cried crocodile tears when the ALP went after her and accused them of misogyny.

Gilmore is a very marginal Lib seat that has slowly been going Labor for years now.

Poor Turnbull. I bet he wishes he could turnback time and slip the Greens advice and some pork that they should take the Abetz approach so this whole things never happened. He paid good money to be PM not to go through this.
 

danm999

Member
Poor Turnbull. I bet he wishes he could turnback time and slip the Greens advice and some pork that they should take the Abetz approach so this whole things never happened. He paid good money to be PM not to go through this.

Should take the Nats to the ACCC I reckon this is not what he paid for
 
The coalition just lost another vote on the floor on a Labor amedment to a Greens bill condemning the Coalition for failing to protect the Great Barrier Reef. Not sure if that's 3 or 4 now.

Not sure it's possible to have a worse couple of days in government.
 

Quasar

Member
The coalition just lost another vote on the floor on a Labor amedment to a Greens bill condemning the Coalition for failing to protect the Great Barrier Reef. Not sure if that's 3 or 4 now.

Not sure it's possible to have a worse couple of days in government.

Well given Malcolms 'I am a strong leader' cry, I'm surprised Tony has not got a spill up. He did make the same cry in opposition just before getting knifed IIRC.
 
Well given Malcolms 'I am a strong leader' cry, I'm surprised Tony has not got a spill up. He did make the same cry in opposition just before getting knifed IIRC.

Tones is actually fairly bereft of allies at the moment (Abetz and Andrews aside) which is why he's trying to re-establish credibility with his absurd repositioning of the No vote on Marriage Equality. Even if he did get a spill up Dutton would probably seize the prize if that conservatives dominated. And he may not want to, given you don't want to be PM as your government collapses under Section 44
 
Welp, judging by the attitude a Pollbludger (where the commentators are fairly Labor partisan), we can probably write off any chance of constitutional reform on this. Can probably pretty safely expect the ALP to campaign against it as a proxy , thus dooming this to the failure of all contested referendums.
 
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If the government is contemplating a fishing expedition and will refer Labor MPs to the High Court I have to imagine the legal advice they're receiving for Joyce's eligibility isn't good.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-labor-mps-to-high-court-20170815-gxwobz.html

Labor posted statements from 3 of the 4 yesterday, Keay had previously made one. Zappia and Vamvakinou seem fine as they renounced and received conformation of it before their elections. Lamb might be a little trickier as she only received a notice that the British HC had received her statement before her election

Threatening nuclear war when you're armed with a back-firing pea-shooter.

It does seem like the ALP have a much more thorough process in place and I'm not sure if the Coalition want to push it with their very slim numbers when there are questions about those on the government side and even questions about the governments legitimacy. The Public will not look kindly on abusing the system to cling to power.
 

hirokazu

Member
LOL so they're considering referring opposition MPs without any confirmation that they run afoul? If you want to bring up the dirt, do some digging. You can't just throw shit and see what sticks.

Welp, judging by the attitude a Pollbludger (where the commentators are fairly Labor partisan), we can probably write off any chance of constitutional reform on this. Can probably pretty safely expect the ALP to campaign against it as a proxy , thus dooming this to the failure of all contested referendums.
It'd have to go to a referendum to change it, wouldn't it? Frankly, I'd just vote against changing it. Politicians should know better and if they don't take the due care required to stand for election, then they shouldn't be standing.
 
LOL so they're considering referring opposition MPs without any confirmation that they run afoul? If you want to bring up the dirt, do some digging. You can't just throw shit and see what sticks.


It'd have to go to a referendum to change it, wouldn't it? Frankly, I'd just vote against changing it. Politicians should know better and if they don't take the due care required to stand for election, then they shouldn't be standing.

We can substitute any arbitrary test we like in by this logic (eg reciting the National Anthem backwards in Latin , Korean and 2 ATSI languages from memory).
 

danm999

Member
LOL so they're considering referring opposition MPs without any confirmation that they run afoul? If you want to bring up the dirt, do some digging. You can't just throw shit and see what sticks..

As I said yesterday Mal probably thought Labor was in the same boat but the realisation dawned on him they weren't when Shorten laughed off his proposal to vet the entire Parliament at once. Add on top of that he's probably been told Joyce is likely be chucked out...

You don't generate a diplomatic crisis with your closest ally because everything is golden behind closed doors.

It'd have to go to a referendum to change it, wouldn't it? Frankly, I'd just vote against changing it. Politicians should know better and if they don't take the due care required to stand for election, then they shouldn't be standing.

How would they even pitch it?

"Please make it easier for us pollies, who you already hate on aggregate, to not do our due dilligence"
 

wonzo

Banned
How would they even pitch it?

"Please make it easier for us pollies, who you already hate on aggregate, to not do our due dilligence"

yeah, anyone that thinks a referendum on s44 is gonna go ahead is crazy. people loathe the political classes and for good reason
 
yeah, anyone that thinks a referendum on s44 is gonna go ahead is crazy. people loathe the political classes and for good reason

Except this is no real threat to the political classes, they'll get some lawyers and vetting processes in place and be unbothered and even if court most will be back as candidates at least by the next election. This is more of a barrier for people not of the political classes since it's yet one more unnecessary hurdle dependant on the laws of other nations to jump through, by this time next year it'll be a bigger barrier for an Independent candidate than it will be to any of the parties.

( Though I am getting some excellent insight into why referendums on simple shit fails. )
 

wonzo

Banned
Except this is no real threat to the political classes, they'll get some lawyers and vetting processes in place and be unbothered and even if court most will be back as candidates at least by the next election. This is more of a barrier for people not of the political classes since it's yet one more unnecessary hurdle dependant on the laws of other nations to jump through, by this time next year it'll be a bigger barrier for an Independent candidate than it will be to any of the parties.

( Though I am getting some excellent insight into why referendums on simple shit fails. )

It definitely benefits parties with the resources to carefully comb through everything but it's more of a perceived threat to pollies and that's good enough for most people.
not even factoring in the latent racism which would easily be mustered against any pushes to change it
 
Tony Abbott Just Linked Australia Day To Same-Sex Marriage Because Of Course He Did


tone said:
There are far too many illustrations of the larger war on our way of life which is going on at the moment. This is the latest example. I am delighted we’ve had a strong response from the government. I do think that one of the reasons that so many decent Australians are concerned about so many of the changes that we see happening all around us now, whether it be something like this, whether it be political correctness rampant in our schools, the gender fluidity stuff that is part of the safe schools program, which is being institutionalised in Victoria. So many people are anxious about these assaults on things that we’ve taken for granted. This is one of the reasons that the same sex marriage vote is suddenly in all sorts of trouble because people are worried about the real agenda of the people that are pushing these things. In the case of marriage, I think they’re starting to realise this is not about strengthening marriage, it’s about weakening it.

#justtonethings
 

Machina

Banned
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-...le-in-australian-media-following-deal/8814114

The chairman of the ABC has defended the public broadcaster's role in the Australian media industry.

Justin Milne has only been in the role for a matter of months, but in an address at Parliament House this evening, he hit back at criticism the ABC is harming the fortunes of Australia's media empires.

His comments follow a deal between the Coalition and One Nation on the Government's shake-up of media ownership regulations.

The support of Pauline Hanson's party came only with concessions from Communications Minister Mitch Fifield on greater scrutiny of the ABC.

Commercial media executives have accused the taxpayer-funded media organisation of aggressive expansion, claiming it had eaten away at their market share and advertising revenue.

"As one of the world's most successful democracies, Australia has benefitted from a dual media system for 85 years, with public broadcasting existing alongside commercial media," Mr Milne said.

"This media environment has ensured vibrancy and diversity, for the good of all Australians.

"And while I am sympathetic to the concerns of the commercial sector as it seeks new business models in a severely disrupted media landscape, criticising the ABC is not the solution to their problems."

'The nation needs a strong public broadcaster'

Mr Milne cited concerns raised when the then Australian Broadcasting Commission was first created in 1932.

"The then media barons opposed the ABC's entry to radio on the basis it would destroy their commercial stations. It didn't," he said.

"The same occurred with the advent of television in the 1950s. And the same again in the 1990s when the ABC was mandated by government to use the internet as a means of extending it's trusted, independent and impartial voice to new audiences over new platforms."

One Nation has attacked the ABC for what it has described as a vendetta against its party, and said it has embraced a left-leaning ideology.

It has demanded the public broadcaster spend more money in regional Australia, and that the words "fair and balanced" are included in its charter.

Mr Milne argued the public broadcaster still held an important place in Australia's society.

"Over 85 per cent of Australians trust the ABC above all other media businesses and believe strongly in its value as a source of truth and information that others simply don't provide: science, the arts, religion, philosophy, education, not to mention our expanding regional and rural coverage in 48 different centres around Australia.

"These are difficult things to find in advertising-driven media.

"I believe that in the modern environment — of fragmenting audiences, of the clamour about fake news, the erosion of national boundaries and the decline and consolidation of commercial media — the one incontestable fact is that now, more than ever, the nation needs a strong independent and trustworthy public broadcaster."

Those poor, poor media empires.
 

Dryk

Member
I agree, the public has taken a lot of those things for granted. But when I say it I'm using the definition Tone isn't.
 
Now Bernadi is calling for parliament to be suspended until after the High Court case and any by-elections. Somehow I don't see that happening. Meanwhile the crossbench is still being ignored in calling for a comprehensive audit.

SMH link
 

danm999

Member
Tones has the same problem as Bernardi following the Trump mould though, he's a career politician and he's not an economic populist. Can't appeal outside rusted on LNP voters. Also has zero charisma and can't read a room.
 

hirokazu

Member
Except this is no real threat to the political classes, they'll get some lawyers and vetting processes in place and be unbothered and even if court most will be back as candidates at least by the next election. This is more of a barrier for people not of the political classes since it's yet one more unnecessary hurdle dependant on the laws of other nations to jump through, by this time next year it'll be a bigger barrier for an Independent candidate than it will be to any of the parties.

(Though I am getting some excellent insight into why referendums on simple shit fails.)
I don't really buy this. It's always easier to run in an larger, established party rather than as a smaller one or an independent, sure. There's lots of administrative and procedural matters to deal with. This doesn't change that, it'd would just be an extra procedure. If you can't handle such procedure and aren't able to hire someone who can, I don't think you're competent to stand.

If a major party has a screening process in place, it'd just be a questionnaire about aspects of the candidates history, with the candidate would have to fill out themselves anyway. It may help them identify if they're potentially in conflict, but hey, it's not too much different to an independent having to find out for themselves.
 
I don't really buy this. It's always easier to run in an larger, established party rather than as a smaller one or an independent, sure. There's lots of administrative and procedural matters to deal with. This doesn't change that, it'd would just be an extra procedure. If you can't handle such procedure and aren't able to hire someone who can, I don't think you're competent to stand.

If a major party has a screening process in place, it'd just be a questionnaire about aspects of the candidates history, with the candidate would have to fill out themselves anyway. It may help them identify if they're potentially in conflict, but hey, it's not too much different to an independent having to find out for themselves.

The dependence on foreign law means it cost Dastaryi 25000. Is having a cool 25 000 to effectively chuck into an incinerator now a marker of the competence required to stand for office ?
 

hirokazu

Member
The dependence on foreign law means it cost Dastaryi 25000. Is having a cool 25 000 to effectively chuck into an incinerator now a marker of the competence required to stand for office ?
That's unfortunate for him, but that's the requirement. It doesn't matter if he's in the Labor Party or he's an independent. Unless you're suggesting Labor coughed up the cost for him.

In certain countries, you may have to pay tidy bribes just for the government to produce documents you're ordinarily entitled to obtain, paperwork the Immigration Department needs in order to emigrate here. We don't remove those requirements for immigration just because it's incredibly difficult or costly for some to obtain them.

This is a disingenuous argument anyway. It's abundantly clear that most of the people caught out have been caught because they did not put in the due diligence to check, not that it's incredibly difficult for them to renounce their foreign citizenship. As I previously said, fair enough if the current MPs didn't put much thought into it, it wasn't really put into the spotlight much until now. But there's no excuses going forward.
 

hirokazu

Member
Just when you think someone else has managed to claim the most ridiculous pollie of the week award, ONP always comes through.
One Nation is a scourge and I'm disappointed that they've become normalised and accepted by the media now. They should be ostracised and made clear that Australia does not accept their views.
 
That's unfortunate for him, but that's the requirement. It doesn't matter if he's in the Labor Party or he's an independent. Unless you're suggesting Labor coughed up the cost for him.

In certain countries, you may have to pay tidy bribes just for the government to produce documents you're ordinarily entitled to obtain, paperwork the Immigration Department needs in order to emigrate here. We don't remove those requirements for immigration just because it's incredibly difficult or costly for some to obtain them.

This is a disingenuous argument anyway. It's abundantly clear that most of the people caught out have been caught because they did not put in the due diligence to check, not that it's incredibly difficult for them to renounce their foreign citizenship. As I previously said, fair enough if the current MPs didn't put much thought into it, it wasn't really put into the spotlight much until now. But there's no excuses going forward.

My argument is that the current reading is stupid because among other things it permits foreign countries to impose arbitrary costs on standing for Australian Parliament. There's nothing disingenuous about that. Those who were caught currently were remiss that is unquestionable, that doesn't somehow make the provision sensible.

One Nation is a scourge and I'm disappointed that they've become normalised and accepted by the media now. They should be ostracised and made clear that Australia does not accept their views.

But you would be wrong in claiming that, it's demonstrably true that somewhere around 10% of Australians do support PHONs views at a fairly high strength. That's the entire point of a proportional House to accurately reflect the views of Australians that get crowded out in majorotorian systems.
 

D.Lo

Member
But you would be wrong in claiming that, it's demonstrably true that somewhere around 10% of Australians do support PHONs views at a fairly high strength. That's the entire point of a proportional House to accurately reflect the views of Australians that get crowded out in majorotorian systems.
I'm still convinced that it's muddied because:

1. Those views are probably actually a higher percentage of the population, but if you have some of the views (eg anti-immigration) but half a brain you still cannot abide by PH or the other corrupt dolts PHON puts up.

2. Despite the above, PHON's numbers are probably inflated by a percentage of the population who just simply hates Liberal and Labor in their current forms and have turned to them Trump-style.
 

danm999

Member
I'm still convinced that it's muddied because:

1. Those views are probably actually a higher percentage of the population, but if you have some of the views (eg anti-immigration) but half a brain you still cannot abide by PH or the other corrupt dolts PHON puts up.

2. Despite the above, PHON's numbers are probably inflated by a percentage of the population who just simply hates Liberal and Labor in their current forms and have turned to them Trump-style.

I agree with 2 that PHON's numbers are soft. The WA election demonstrated that a certain portion of their vote is a conditional protest vote that they lost by horse trading and incompetance.
 
I agree with 2 that PHON's numbers are soft. The WA election demonstrated that a certain portion of their vote is a conditional protest vote that they lost by horse trading and incompetance.

There's also a fair chunk of their "real" national vote locked up in Queensland where they are still polling at ~12% and have been as high as 16%
 
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