I'd expect the latter, given they're probably corrupt.
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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?
- Thread starter Bernbaum
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I'd expect the latter, given they're probably corrupt.
Candescence
Member
And of course Turnbull is reviving Abbot's carbon tax scare campaign almost to the letter. That's pathetic.
D.Lo
Member
I had the displeasure of watching broadcast television last night and seeing it wall to wall with government ads paid for with my tax dollars to sell this bunch of clowns for the election.
Ads for terrorism, 'innovation', anti-violence against women ads, it's all so pathetically transparent WE'RE DOING LOTS OF STUFF YOU SHOULD VOTE FOR US!!!!
Ads for terrorism, 'innovation', anti-violence against women ads, it's all so pathetically transparent WE'RE DOING LOTS OF STUFF YOU SHOULD VOTE FOR US!!!!
bobnowhere
Member
Wait till the night of the budget, the Government has a massive taxpayer funded ad campaign coming to sell it and themselves but they have to stop it when the election is called. Hence Turnbull waiting till the 11th, the last possible date, to call the election. 8 day taxpayer funded LNP blitz!
But, the High court challenge to the new senate laws is dropping on budget day or the day after so that could cause havoc with the timing and banks and maybe subs somewhere in the far off never-never.
Up is down, left is right, cats and dogs etc...
Though to be fair most businesses acknowledge and are planning when it comes to climate change. It's really just the resource and energy production sectors that are holding out. Sadly in Australia that's about all we have.
Dastardly Jerks
Banned
Can we vote for the fish in the upcoming election?
bobnowhere
Member
Candescence
Member
Support for limiting negative gearing is 47-24 and cutting corporate tax is 22-57 (support-oppose). Holy shit, the Coalition are misreading the electorate so badly.
If the budget gets anyone near the disaster that was 2014 in terms of reception, the government is fucked.
If the budget gets anyone near the disaster that was 2014 in terms of reception, the government is fucked.
D.Lo
Member
The problem with Labor winning is we get a visionless party hack as PM. Who would be the third (or maybe even fifth, since Rudd I) person in a row to fall backward into becoming the leader of Australia, based only on the severe unpopularity of the alternative.
Goddamn it Labor if you'd gone with Albo the Libs would have been dead and buried two years ago.
At least the Labor team is half decent I guess.
Goddamn it Labor if you'd gone with Albo the Libs would have been dead and buried two years ago.
At least the Labor team is half decent I guess.
Candescence
Member
Reportedly Labor almost deposed Shorten back in January (in spite of the safeguards Rudd put in place to stop the musical chairs) before Turnbull started dithering and Shorten started actually getting his act together, so that plan was scrapped. Really, Turnbull can't really blame anyone but himself for this mess, since he had no power to actually push back against the right-wing of his own party.
Psydonk
Member
The bizarre thing, my friend lives across the road from his parents and they are apparently quite left-wing.
Zed is your classical Young-Liberal career politican psychopath though. I have a seething hatred for Zed beyond what is reasonable for any person. The absolutely seedy shit he and his campaign got up to last election had me fuming.
I will never understand how 40% of the population can think about voting for the Libs. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I think this past 3 years has been the worst period of Australian Governance in living memory.
Elaugaufein
Member
You pretty much answer your own question there. The Coalition has been in government for the majority of the last 120 years. And Labor's generally come into government at bad times (There first 5 elections n modern history are war, war, depression, war and war. And then come's Gough Whitlam. Then Hawk/Keating who had a recession (though this one at least is at least *was* attributable to their own actions to some extent) .
By contrast Howard presided over the mining boom , while Rudd got the GFC and the end of the resouces boom.
Historically the Coalition are much more associated with the good times (and budget surpluses). Abbott's pretty much the Coalition PM in living memory who immediately inserted his foot into his mouth and never removed it. To be fair his policies generally weren't particularly different from Howard's , he just didn't have a mining boom to pacify "Howard's Battlers" while eviscerating everything else for the sake of the business community and religious conservatives.
Candescence
Member
Also, Sinodinos has defied the order to appear before the senate inquiry into the Libs' fundraising activities. Of course, by doing this, he's basically playing with fire by risking being found in contempt of the senate. I want to see that slimy fucker get jailed over this.
What weirds me out more is people on the lower end of the socio economic spectrum voting LNP. Basically voting against their own interests/well being.
I'm sure there's all sorts of reasons, but one is that you have to make tough family decisions to survive on low income. So narratives about tightening your belt resonate more strongly than sharing the wealth.
Yeah, the main problem with the current government isn't the PM, it's the hokey members who have no fucking idea and continually fuck up/make themselves out to look like arseholes/idiots (see: Morrison, Potato, Sinodinos, Joyce, Fifield, Pyne, Cash, Cormann, Ley, Frydenberg, O'Dwyer, Cunt...). And of course the hard right-wing backbenchwarmers like Kevin Andrews and that fat anti-SSM cunt.
Shorten should be fine as PM, if only as a visible head of state so the actual parliament can get things done rather than get broiled up in controversy. Hopefully at least he should be hard to hate.
bobnowhere
Member
While I still think it's unlikely, I'm cautiously optimistic for a potential Shorten PM'ship. There's no way he'd go down in the pantheon of Labor greats, Whitlam/Chiffley/Curtain/Hawke/Keating but he has seriously upped his game in the last 3-4 months and is taking a very brave platform to the election. He is of course aided by a dire Coalition Government but who thought Daniel Andrews would turn out so well?
The way he unseated Gary Humphries, the last ACT Lib senator was pretty low and to top that off Zed then proceeded to organise a group to strip Humphries of a life time service award for daring to criticise Zed and his cronies. Gary while still a Lib. was a very decent man and a good advocate for the ACT inside the Howard Government especially at a time where kicking the ACT was a weekly pastime. Zed on the other hand, is an oxygen thief.
Of damn, banned already. Farewell fellow Zed hater!
I kinda think they need someone that can unite the party rather than a strong personality. That's pretty much what Howard was. Considered too weak and unconvincing to last long, but managed to keep the infighting to a minimum? Maybe that's overly simplistic.
Seems about right. I could picture someone like Albo being a little too polarising to those within the party compared to someone like Shorten.
I think the soul of the party stuff is more serious on the LNP side. There are seriously doctrinal differences between its factions that are going to be destabilising for years.
Labor has problems but at least its policy disagreements tend to be more slight (refugees being one of the exceptions as we've seen recently).
Labor has problems but at least its policy disagreements tend to be more slight (refugees being one of the exceptions as we've seen recently).
shanshan310
Member
I'm hoping that the recent split with regards to refugee treatment gives us a better choice for the election. Treat refugees like shit or treat refugees like shit isn't a great choice, especially since it seems like parties like the greens don't have much influence on that front 
I'd like to be able to vote for labor but this is a real sticking point for me..
I'd like to be able to vote for labor but this is a real sticking point for me..The only way to solve refugee problems is to do it regionall and that would require cooperation from dozens of countries to house, employ and resettle them where possible. Including here.
They do have to stpp them coming by boat because of drowning and smashing onto rocks but if you stop them leaving from Indonesia or Malaysia etc you have to give them a reason to stay put for a brief period before they can be resettled instead of imprisoned.
Some may be taken by Timor or nz or aus, others by PNG or Fiji and eventually you get a sustainable model going where others go to stable countries further afield.
It can't just be prisons on nauru unti you slit your wrists, set fire to yourself or get raped and have to wash duttons toes to get an abortion.
Fuck every cunt politician who doesn't realise this.
They do have to stpp them coming by boat because of drowning and smashing onto rocks but if you stop them leaving from Indonesia or Malaysia etc you have to give them a reason to stay put for a brief period before they can be resettled instead of imprisoned.
Some may be taken by Timor or nz or aus, others by PNG or Fiji and eventually you get a sustainable model going where others go to stable countries further afield.
It can't just be prisons on nauru unti you slit your wrists, set fire to yourself or get raped and have to wash duttons toes to get an abortion.
Fuck every cunt politician who doesn't realise this.
bobnowhere
Member
The Labor party are pretty firmly established as "third way" nowadays. There may be some elements of DPL/catholic conservatism left in the right, Conroy and the like, and some slightly far out ideas in the left, Cameron etc... but they are mostly in agreement. There isn't to much "comrade" any more. The factions are barely more than teams that they have always supported because their father's did, and their father's father.
I'd probably argue it hasn't gone as far in Australia as say under Blair/Brown as the emphasis is still on equality for all instead raising all boats, but it is getting there. Bowen and Hockey were alarmingly similar in many respects. Morrison on the other hand probably drowned when Hockey jumped in the Harbour trying to raise the boats.
Anyway, CPI went backwards yesterday -0.2%, the first time since the GFC in 2008 and more than 50% of those in the know are predicting an interest rate drop on Budget day. Love to see them explain that one away after Hockey and the rest described 2.5% as emergency levels as the economy was struggling, 1.5% will be firmly brown pants territory.
I'm hoping that the recent split with regards to refugee treatment gives us a better choice for the election. Treat refugees like shit or treat refugees like shit isn't a great choice, especially since it seems like parties like the greens don't have much influence on that front
This raises an interesting point. This board is clearly majority Green but how many here would vote Labor if they promised to be humane to asylum seekers?
Just to be clear, they won't but to what extent is that issue a deal breaker here.
I will say that Rudd/ Gillard were easily more progressive than Hawke/Keating and Shorten's policy seem to be even more to the left. It doesn't seem that Labor is heading in a Blairite direction, at least not yet.
Would the Reserve Bank really go for a full 1% cut? They'll probably just for for 25-50 basis points. But then again maybe the economy seems worse than it appears?
bobnowhere
Member
It's 2% now so it dropped 50 points on Hockey's watch which he of course said was good this time! Reports suggest 50 points again but that would be a big call by the RBA on budget day 8 days before the election is to be called. They could easier be, falsely, accused of entering into the political fight, could get nasty.
I'm not saying the ALP is there yet, but there is some hints they are heading that way like commitments to lowering corporate tax rates in the future under Gillard. She was certainly was more progressive with Gonksi, health funding and the Carbon trading scheme.
It's hard to say where Rudd was economically, he was whacked with the GFC but was obsessed with claiming his economic conservatism, though the NBN was pure equality measure. Both also squibbed a lot of opportunities to remove or even talk about entrenched inequality in housing, taxation and private health care.
Gotta run the government like a house hold budget! The Howard battlers way.
Elaugaufein
Member
I wouldn't, while the asylum seeker treatment is appalling it's removal would only slightly reduce the list of policies I prefer the Greens on and is unlikely to change the list of policies I prefer Labor's positions on at all (since I can't see them proposing a superior solution in this area given wedge).
I really don't have any incentive to change to a Labor primary vote at all. I already usually preference Labor 2nd for Representative contests and just below the small handful of Left wing micro parties (who haven't decided to do preference deals with the Patriotic Peoples of Australia for Xenophic Facism type parties because bleargh) in Senate contests. As a result there's very few circumstances where me changing to a Labor primary vote would have any actual effect, it'd require me to be in some kind of bizarre 3 cornered contest where the Greens would knock out Labor and then lose to the Coalition for some reason other than Labor being dickish with preferences or one where Labor would knock out the Greens and the Greens preferences would then ensure a Coalition victory (which would occur approximately 1 election before the Greens ceased to exist as a political party). Well I guess there could also be some kind of general inversion of policy that leaves the ALP preferable to me over the Greens, but frankly given the electorate , I've got better chances of being struck by lightning and a meteor simultaneously while winning the Jackpot in the lottery.
I don't imagine there's a lot of people who are committed Labor voters who find the Asylum Seeker treatment so appalling that its enough to force them to vote Green despite generally preferring Labor (if nothing else most of those would probably rather do Change From the Inside from an actual Major Party and there assessment that the LNP are worse is 100% correct).
You're right. I don't know why I thought interest rates were 2.5%.
http://www.theguardian.com/australi...and-offer-to-take-150-refugees-from-detention
So fucking enraging. Not surprised though.
So fucking enraging. Not surprised though.
bobnowhere
Member
Yet again we are embarrassed by the Very Dry conservative NZ government on a social matter.
PNG should just make a deal with NZ and ignore Australia.
Yep, let em try and explain that one.
"They're our responsibility but uhh, they're not our responsibility.
Look we just wanna brutalise em for political gain, ok?"
bobnowhere
Member
Not sure where the refugees stand legally to be honest. Are they still under the care and control of Australia? Are PNG even in position to make decisions or are they just a glorified sub-contractor? I suspect Australia is still in control and use the power imbalance and the threat of Aid withdrawal to exert complete dominance in the relationship.
Edit: Sadly, it looks like the refugee that set himself alight on Nauru has passed away.
I'd use the word "care" quite loosely there. The Iranian man who burnt himself died not long ago. Blood is on the hands of Labor, Liberal, National Parties and everyone who voted for them for this policy.
Elaugaufein
Member
I'm beginning to suspect that Backburner has someone attending Labor Policy Meetings : http://www.sbs.com.au/comedy/articl...wer-behind-coalition-until-manus-issue-sorted
Don't forget Victoria also did something very similar. Right now it's just the federal government out on their own on this one, I think.
Dastardly Jerks
Banned
My local member, Tim Watts, is a bloody legend. And I'd chuck him a vote.
But it means not voting for the Greens, so he'll always get my second preference.
Considering his electorate, he's very much in favor of refugees.
But it means not voting for the Greens, so he'll always get my second preference.
Considering his electorate, he's very much in favor of refugees.
Candescence
Member
So the Productivity Commission released its draft report into copyright and patents, and... Surprisingly, it can basically be summed up as "reduce copyright and patent terms significantly, encourage circumvention of geoblocking, introduce a robust fair use doctrine, etc". It even gripes that we should never have locked ourselves into certain trade agreements that make copyright reform more difficult.
Not what I expected, but it's sure as hell welcome. Shame the government would rather stick its fingers in its ears rather than avoid pissing off entertainment industries who thrive on copyright maximalism.
Not what I expected, but it's sure as hell welcome. Shame the government would rather stick its fingers in its ears rather than avoid pissing off entertainment industries who thrive on copyright maximalism.
Elaugaufein
Member
Surprisingly pretty much every government review of copyright outside of DFAT consistently says that.
Its actually pretty hard to argue though unless you pull numbers out of your arse, which is why the US is so fond of asking copyright holders how much potential money they lost and then unquestioningly taking their word for it.
Candescence
Member
The Greens are targeting Shorten's electorate over the medium/long term. It would be hilarious if Labor won but Shorten was shunted out of his own seat thanks to the Greens. An unlikely scenario this election, mind you, but crazier things have happened - just ask Indi.
The report even says that most works have a shelf life of up to roughly five years. Few works sell gangbusters five or even ten years after publication, and those are generally massive hits to begin with if not outright cultural touchstones. And, really, it's not like the original creator can't stop selling their original work or even, say, remastered versions of it.
The report even says that most works have a shelf life of up to roughly five years. Few works sell gangbusters five or even ten years after publication, and those are generally massive hits to begin with if not outright cultural touchstones. And, really, it's not like the original creator can't stop selling their original work or even, say, remastered versions of it.
I feel like that would be a good outcome for them because it gives them a get out of Shorten free card.
A lot of authors have taken issue with it on Twitter, and they're right that they might see reduced returns in the long term from 25 year terms. Especially since Australian books that sell tend to sell over a long time.
But the Productivity Commission is looking at the situation holistically, and obviously feels that any losses and chilling effects on original authors will be made up for by the increases in other areas. The authors may end up with less, but there will be so many more people selling works based on their IP that overall it will be good for the economy (theoretically).
Yeah, lots of writers on my social media are up in arms, but I don't have too much sympathy. Creative work is hard to get paid for, I get that, but ensuring you get profits from a single work for that long is not the way to sustain a creative industry I don't think.
I read this when you posted it but only just had the chance to reply:
There's this weird view of Howard (and it's very much present in this article) where he gets attacked for being an ultra-conservative right winger while at the same time blasted for his generous welfare packages for the middle class. It's a weird dichotomy and makes the comparisons to US style neocons ring a bit hollow, considering the huge amount of wealth taken out of the US middle class over the last 30 years. That hasn't happened here.
I also don't particularly agree that his economic reforms were radically free market as posited in the article. Practically every social democracy in the world has a consumption tax. Obviously the big stuff ups were the capital gains discount, superannuation tax concessions and negative gearing. No argument there. But to me, radical free market economic reforms would result in a fairly significant rise in income inequality. But the numbers don't really show that. The ABS actually says:
http://www.treasury.gov.au/Publicat...onomic-Roundup/Income-inequality-in-Australia
Of course it goes on to say that when you include capital, income inequality saw modest growth, but still.
Another interesting fact in that article:
So I don't buy this idea of Howard creating some neo-liberal, radical free market dystopia. People seem to cling to it because that's sorta what exactly what happened in the States over the last 30 years.
For what it's worth, I think the Liberal Party in the last 7-8 years has taken it way too far. Hockey's first budget with the cigars was obviously a massive shambles and more realistically represents what people seem to push onto the Howard years. They're also absolutely kidding themselves with the budget this year if they're coming in with a tax cut for those earning over $80k and they think it'll help them win an election. They've completely lost the ability to read the electorate.
bobnowhere
Member
Australia Budget (2016) OT - Scott no Revenue Problem
Sorry, had that pun in my head all morning, it had to get out.
Sorry, had that pun in my head all morning, it had to get out.
That would be crazy considering the IMF described him as a profligate spender.
I mean, so was GWB. And Reagan really.
bobnowhere
Member
So a cut to the corporate tax rate and those earning over $80, the average wage, and nothing for those under. Bold plan to win an election, trickle down on everyone.
Also average wage is a very poor measure as it is massively skewed by high income earners, median wage is much better and is high 40s low 50s last time I saw.
Also average wage is a very poor measure as it is massively skewed by high income earners, median wage is much better and is high 40s low 50s last time I saw.
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