Support NeoGAF

[CryptiK]

Shouldn't you pay taxes on the things you buy? Especially luxury items like video games?

It's kind of how a lot of countries/states work.

We do on Steam its just that the tax money goes to the publisher instead of the government. A lot of the prices on steam for Australians are fucking ridiculous where often for AAA games its better to go into an EB Games where it will be cheaper.

Taxes like this are the easiest way to suss out who talks the talk and who walks the walk in terms of actually wanting to work towards fixing things in their given country (and by that I mean also maintaining things like the social safety net, infrastructure and whatever)

It is fascinating to see how often talks of left wing economic policies go straight out the window when part of that means say paying a few extra dollars on a video game...

Like I get that the games are seemingly over priced but that's not the government that's the game companies... So no the government is not making you resort to grey market or piracy....

:eyeroll:

The price we pay for games on steam are often more than what we pay at brick and mortar stores (which include GST).

Grand Theft Auto on Steam is currently 96 AUD. I can get it from EB Games Aus with GST included for $67 or JB Hifi for $79.

Adding Tax to steam prices is ridiculous.

 

[TheQuickBrownFox]

We do on Steam its just that the tax money goes to the publisher instead of the government.

That by very definition is not a tax. Steam as it is right now pays no tax.

The price we pay for games on steam are often more than what we pay at brick and mortar stores (which include GST)..... Adding Tax to steam prices is ridiculous.

Whilst is hard to argue the cost of the goods, we can only really hope that the publishers and/or platform holders eat the cost out of the aptly named "Australia Tax" (which is more of premium/surcharge) - I wouldn't hold my breath, but you never know.

The interesting cases will be the grey market and sites like CDKeys and, if applicable, how they handle it.

Adding Tax to steam prices is ridiculous.

Not really. Its about time our laws started catching up to the digital age. Whilst it doesn't address the massive amounts of profit shifting all these multinationals do (MS/Sony/Google/Apple et al), it is a step in the right direction.

 

[unrealist]

Can you ask a foreigner to gift you the games you want? Like a middleman or even changing your region before purchase..

 

[Aureon]

Pricing on digital gods is largely based on what the market will bear, not taxes.
If marketheads thought the sweet spot was 20$, it's still going to be 20$. There's no margin in digital products.
Steam eats the variable VAT in europe, for example.

I don't think pricing will go up any.

 

[excelsiorlef]

:eyeroll:

The price we pay for games on steam are often more than what we pay at brick and mortar stores (which include GST).

Grand Theft Auto on Steam is currently 96 AUD. I can get it from EB Games Aus with GST included for $67 or JB Hifi for $79.

Adding Tax to steam prices is ridiculous.

Your issue then is with the giant corporations that publish the games and the giant corporation that sells you the game.

Don't get mad at the government. Get mad at the game publishers and Steam...

That giant corps are fucking you over doesn't make the government the bad guys for taxing a luxery good.

 

[OfTheOverflow]

It's 11:30pm and I just finished battling a Huntsman off the windshield of my car and now this? Fuck this country.

 

[Triteon]

Maybe its just exasperation but i have no issue with this.

AAA games on steam are generally more expensive than at JB HIFI on day one, they include tax.

Oh and dont forget our internet caps.

Maybe just maybe this will get Valve to reconsider how they calculate our prices... Wishful thinking.

 

[TheQuickBrownFox]

Just as a friendly reminder "Netflix Tax" hits Aussies tomorrow impacting digital sales. Load up while ya can

(thou I'm still a bit skeptical in how this will be collected)

 

[fleshrender]

Doesn't really bother me. We should be paying tax on this stuff anyway. If you want to be angry at someone be angry at those who set the prices.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Just as a friendly reminder "Netflix Tax" hits Aussies tomorrow impacting digital sales. Load up while ya can

(thou I'm still a bit skeptical in how this will be collected)

Valve collect the money and tax so nothing will change for you outside a price jump unless the game price gets lowered.

 

[El-Suave]

Australia is already being "Marked Up"

But that's on the corporations, not the government.

 

[Machina]

Doesn't really bother me. We should be paying tax on this stuff anyway. If you want to be angry at someone be angry at those who set the prices.

We tried that, and they laughed in our faces

 

[BumblebeeCody]

That sucks since Australia already has pricey games anyway.

 

[TheQuickBrownFox]

Valve collect the money and tax so nothing will change for you outside a price jump unless the game price gets lowered.

I'm more skeptical in how the Australian Govt will collect GST from an foreign entity. i.e. CDKeys or any number of grey market entities.

 

[Mohonky]

Is Australia one of these weird places where they don't include tax in shown price?

Nah we show tax.

But we are charged in USD, so we pay a premium on titles, then a premium for the conversion and now apparently, another 10%

 

[Tecnniqe]

I'm more skeptical in how the Australian Govt will collect GST from an foreign entity. i.e. CDKeys or any number of grey market entities.

Don't the company need to be registered there for tax collection to work? If not it's import tax which is on the end user, no?

 

[flipswitch]

Nah we show tax.

But we are charged in USD, so we pay a premium on titles, then a premium for the conversion and now apparently, another 10%

It's a disgrace how much more we pay. I can provide PayPal receipts of my purchases but it's too embarrassing.

 

[madjoki]

Valve collect the money and tax so nothing will change for you outside a price jump unless the game price gets lowered.

Steam prices outside US include tax, so game prices won't be affected (publisher will receive less), unless they set up new price.

Don't the company need to be registered there for tax collection to work? If not it's import tax which is on the end user, no?

At least EU requires anyone selling to EU pay the taxes. I think AU tax is supposed to be similar.

How well sites actually pay is different thing.

 

[TheQuickBrownFox]

Don't the company need to be registered there for tax collection to work? If not it's import tax which is on the end user, no?

I believe that If a company earns more than $75K AUD (or from AUD customers) they will need to register for GST.

I don't think there is a way for our Govt. to compel an entity to register.

 

[chromatic9]

So Steam is trying to avoid Australian law?

If a game is $60 USD then Aus price should be $80 AUD plus tax which would $88 AUD

Currently it's something like Steam put $80 USD for Aussie screens which makes them pay $100 AUD and now Australia are finally and quite rightly charging tax.

Surely this will put pressure on Steam to act properly?

 

[Gen.Grievous]

When I joined steam all the prices were in dollars, the euro was still STRONG and no taxes needed to be paid. Good times.

Now we pay 21% tax, prices are in euro, regional stores with regional sales. It's cheaper buying in retail stores.

 

[Elaugaufein]

So Steam is trying to avoid Australian law?

if a game is $60 USD then Aus price should be $80 AUD plus tax which would $88 AUD

Currently it's something like Steam put $80 USD for Aussie screens which makes them pay $100 AUD and now Australia are finally and quite rightly charging tax.

Surely this will put pressure on Steam?

That isn't how most Steam prices are set. The are set by publishers who are unwilling to get into a fight with EB Games / JB Hifi and so are priced at the same price as stores nominally charge (RRP) which includes GST in Australia. We've effectively been paying GST the entire time already, except it goes to the Publisher and Steam (through their cut) rather than the government.

The 2 possibilities here are that GST will be added to the existing Steam price effectively double (and a little extra because compounding) paying GST or publishers will eat it and keep the "box price" the same as in stores. I'd really like to believe it'd be the second one but frankly the way corporations set prices in Australia generally does not fill me with optimism.

(The bit about things being cheaper in store is because JB Hifi and EB Games often run sales or sell below RRP or in the case of EB Games push "Pre-owned" copies that they buy back for a fraction of the price and then resell below the new price, but Publishers aren't really interested enough in the Australian market to match that on Steam let alone get into a fight with EB Games over it )

 

[chromatic9]

That isn't how most Steam prices are set. The are set by publishers who are unwilling to get into a fight with EB Games / JB Hifi and so are priced at the same price as stores nominally charge (RRP) which includes GST in Australia. We've effectively been paying GST the entire time already, except it goes to the Publisher and Steam (through their cut) rather than the government.

The 2 possibilities here are that GST will be added to the existing Steam price effectively double (and a little extra because compounding) paying GST or publishers will eat it and keep the "box price" the same as in stores. I'd really like to believe it'd be the second one but frankly the way corporations set prices in Australia generally does not fill me with optimism.

(The bit about things being cheaper in store is because JB Hifi and EB Games often run sales or sell below RRP or in the case of EB Games push "Pre-owned" copies that they buy back for a fraction of the price and then resell below the new price, but Publishers aren't really interested enough in the Australian market to match that on Steam let alone get into a fight with EB Games over it )

I get that and Europe/UK has digital vs retail problem, that's not what I'm on about but what is Steam's problem and then you have Australians saying this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/45h91k/will_we_ever_get_prices_in_aud_in_australia/

 

[Elaugaufein]

I get that and Europe/UK has digital vs retail problem, that's not what I'm on about but what is Steam's problem and then you have Australians saying this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/45h91k/will_we_ever_get_prices_in_aud_in_australia/

No one has any definitive proof that I'm aware off but it's long been suspected the reason Steam doesn't take AUD is to circumvent various parts of Australian law, not just GST but also mandatory warranties.

 

[TheQuickBrownFox]

So Steam is trying to avoid Australian law?

If a game is $60 USD then Aus price should be $80 AUD plus tax which would $88 AUD

Currently it's something like Steam put $80 USD for Aussie screens which makes them pay $100 AUD and now Australia are finally and quite rightly charging tax.

Surely this will put pressure on Steam to act properly?

No one has any definitive proof that I'm aware off but it's long been suspected the reason Steam doesn't take AUD is to circumvent various parts of Australian law, not just GST but also mandatory warranties.

The ACCC has already taken Valve to task over most of their practices.

It found that being an US company mainly trading outside Australia doesn't make a lick of difference if they are trading with Australia.

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-relea...ing-representations-about-consumer-guarantees

As far as the Tax office is concerned, I believe they have threated to DNS and CC block entity that do not meet their taxation obligations (I can't find the link for that) and also push legal punishments.

 

[CryptiK]

So are we meant to be getting some kind of Steam AUD pricing soon or? This change goes into effect tomorrow doesn't it?

 

[Elaugaufein]

So are we meant to be getting some kind of Steam AUD pricing soon or? This change goes into effect tomorrow doesn't it?

No, this is just about GST enforcement. Though I thought I heard there was a delay being enacted because the legislation hasn't yet been finalized.

Though there's no real reason for Steam to not price things in AUD at this point, there's no longer any consumer or tax law reason to avoid it.

 

[rolandss]

Good luck enforcing that Australia.

They can and will if Steam want to sell games to Australian consumers.

 

[madjoki]

Though there's no real reason for Steam to not price things in AUD at this point, there's no longer any consumer or tax law reason to avoid it.

Valve has still on-going lawsuit with ACCC. Considering that was reason AUD was postponed, I doubt it will happen before it's settled. (I think originally launch was planned for 2015).

 

[Elaugaufein]

Valve has still on-going lawsuit with ACCC. Considering that was reason AUD was postponed, I doubt it will happen before it's settled. (I think originally launch was planned for 2015).

Didn't they lose that a while ago ?

 

[madjoki]

Didn't they lose that a while ago ?

Since both sides have appealed decision and it will be going to higher court.

 

[Zizbuka]

I was just in the UK.... what the hell is this Value Added Tax? People who live there have to pay that all the time?

Is this the price for Socialism?

 

[MasterOfPastures]

Switzerland has the same thing for most products: an automatic 10% bump simply because we can pay for it. Australia will be fine, but nothing will change: publishers will continue gouging the market because they can. Start shitting on them rather than the middleman.