WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Oh really? What happens when you wind up dead? What happens when your friends and family wind up dead? Seriously think things through before your post.
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Begging Our Oppressors For Mercy Will Never Work
- Thread starter Wanda/Wander
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Oh really? What happens when you wind up dead? What happens when your friends and family wind up dead? Seriously think things through before your post.
tearsintherain
Member
Why is anyone begging for mercy? What does that even mean? Why is the only link in OP to a joke thread about "You know Elle, we really are The Last of Us"? Why is it everyone who voted for Trump is saying "nah, black lives don't matter."?
Many of the points raised in the op were brought up in the Trevor Noah Breakfast Club interview, which everyone should watch.
One of the points Trevor makes is treating racism as a disease. In his experience, racism can only be cured by exposure. This is not coddling racism--it is confronting it. However slowly.
Advocating violence is a joke. We need another war to fix what the first war didn't! Thinking this way just feeds the supremacy us vs. them narrative.
Since everyone is killing the quote, I might as well too:
The arc of history bends towards injustice, so long as good men do nothing.
- Alucard
One of the points Trevor makes is treating racism as a disease. In his experience, racism can only be cured by exposure. This is not coddling racism--it is confronting it. However slowly.
Advocating violence is a joke. We need another war to fix what the first war didn't! Thinking this way just feeds the supremacy us vs. them narrative.
Since everyone is killing the quote, I might as well too:
The arc of history bends towards injustice, so long as good men do nothing.
- Alucard
Puck Beaverton
Banned
Go ahead and try to start one and see how far that will go.
Except in at least two.of those cases, different people got oppressed and more brutally.
Can't say I agree, it very well depends on the situation. Violence should always be on the table as a last resort, especially if the oppressors manage to repress your voices, like laws against protests. As MLK said, riots are the voices of the unheard. Sometimes it's a necessary act.
As for this, I personally just go meh. I consider it necessary sacrifices or collateral damage. (I'm a very cold calculated person sometimes and I've already lost a lot of people in my life, a good amount after the election too). This is, of course, talking about myself. Friends and Family, though? Well I wouldn't give two shits about my family, although my friends I would be angry. Although, that also depends if they died fighting for what they believed in, in which case I wouldn't mourn their deaths but rather celebrate their life and respect what they fought for. War is a complex situation, civil war especially.
Black Lives Matter is literally a movement to say "please stop killing us", and it is treated as an attack on white people.
therealist
Member
A Civil War is literally not a solution for anything.
The first Civil War got rid of slavery but didn't get rid of oppression or racism. Even assuming you would win (which you won't), you still wouldn't be able to get rid of oppression/racism. These are ideas by people, and those idea swill still shape policy going forward.
In order for your wild solution to work, you would have to win the Civil War, and overthrow the entire government system, only to replace it with a dictatorship. That's the only way you can assure yourself that policy will be made by the right people.
Good luck with that.
Take a step back and realize that the country has made progress each year and will continue making progress. Life is better today for all people than it was in 1960. Last I checked there were no Civil Wars between then and now, so it's obviously not a requirement for progress to be made.
Chie Satonaka
Member
if only this country felt as strongly about actually eliminating oppression as a few posters here feel about the mention of violence as a reaction to it
what a world it would be
what a world it would be
theignoramus
Member
Nonsense, institutional White supremacy, historically, only ever responds to acts or threats of violence or economic punishment.
Yes, progress has been made, but let's not forget at the cost of lives.For example, the HIV/AIDS epidemic in the 80s was ignored and many died until white heterosexuals started contracting them, the Drug War has destroyed families and lives for decades, still does, and no one cared until white people started being effected by it. So yes, there was no civil war or need for it, but let's not kid ourselves when reality shows that many people had to die for progress to be made. As an earlier post said:
This is true, white supremacy doesn't react until they feel threatened or in danger. If they feel it effects them, then they will act on their best interest. If BLM starts mass protesting on the streets to the point where it effects the economy, then they'll have to listen and eventually do something about it because it makes them look bad and its costing them money, and no law against the protests like arresting them from blocking the streets is going to stop the protests.
ElectricThunder
Member
At the least, with all that is happening especially tied to the violence that has already been happening which has exacerbated the lot of this, nobody should be surprised or aghast that a number of folks are feeling and have been made so desperately and intentionally cornered----this would be like somehow being in a state of total amazement that jury nullification was a thing in terms of the breakdown of civil society and/or the safety net with the public good. I could see folks trying for another modern equivalent of Black Wall Street again, but with even or worse odds that history would mostly repeat. 
People like to bandy about Ghandi and MLK while hush hushing the more specifically controversial figures as gold standards, but, well---wouldn't it be far more insane to think that the forces arrayed against them in those times didn't learn and adapt from those bouts of highly lucky and synergistic peaceful approaches? This isn't some story, there aren't comic book villains, these are all people entailing all the resourcefulness for good or ill that entails----which I constantly see folks gloss over while being self-assured of some equivalent Deus Ex Machina to tidy everything up just so at the last minute in a clever fashion not unlike folks posturing on Climate Change.
We've been kicking quite a number of cans down the road for decades now.
People like to bandy about Ghandi and MLK while hush hushing the more specifically controversial figures as gold standards, but, well---wouldn't it be far more insane to think that the forces arrayed against them in those times didn't learn and adapt from those bouts of highly lucky and synergistic peaceful approaches? This isn't some story, there aren't comic book villains, these are all people entailing all the resourcefulness for good or ill that entails----which I constantly see folks gloss over while being self-assured of some equivalent Deus Ex Machina to tidy everything up just so at the last minute in a clever fashion not unlike folks posturing on Climate Change.
We've been kicking quite a number of cans down the road for decades now.
Wanda/Wander
Member
I'm not and never will advocate violence.
I don't agree with disease analogy. Alcoholism, substance abuse, hoarding, etc are all versions of compulsive self harm.
The disease analogy does two things:
1. It let's racists off the hook and casts them as victims
2. It ignores the fact that racism is an entirely man made construct
The elite 1% have figured out a LOOONG time ago how to wield racism as a weapon to manipulate the moderate majority to vote against their self interests. Institutionalized Racism exists to funnel money, power and resources from the majority of the population to the super rich 1%.
If the elite 1% decided today we could make billions of more dollars by integrating schools, and ending mass incarceration, etc that shit would end tomorrow.
Secretly smiling inside for all the harm he and his rich appointed friends are about to unleash on minorities aren't you? And when I say minorities I mean Black people, Asians, American Indians( not much of them left), women, gay people and other people who deserve a place in society regardless of their skin color, sexuality etc.
Pretending you are just asking a question is pretty messed up.
The important thing to remember is that iin that 44% there were minorities as well and you've got to wonder what those people were honestly thinking, because they were voting against their own intrests more than likely.
This quote is more or less what I was going to talk about.
When people talk about non-violence or "peaceful protest" and stuff like that, the target of those tactics isn't the racists themselves, but rather the moderates tho stand on the sidelines -- the people who inwardly agree racism is bad, but won't actually do anything about it. That's important because those moderates are the "silent majority." More broadly speaking, nonviolent campaigns are targeted at the world at large that sits on the sidelines but has the ability to influence change by force of numbers and public opinion if stirred to do so. The nonviolent thing works in societies where the authorities don't want to be seen by the majority as oppressors, or where being seen as oppressors and aggressors will lead to that authority's downfall when majority opinion turns against it.
As for the people out there who all the think pieces say we need to understand, other think pieces have already come up saying they've got it backwards. A central problem is empathy -- the oppressed need to be seen as people, not stereotypes and statistics on the news.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
It always had been us vs. them, I for one am glad the wool has finally been pulled from a lot of people's eyes. We aren't in this thing together and it's time we stopped pretending we are.
Your lives only matter when you threaten theirs. If not, stay down and be subservient while watching your kind gets doomed for generations with no remedy in sight.
No, I'm not an advocate for violence but it's pretty clear the moderates in this country don't give a shit for equality. Resources are scarce and limited after all, got to hog as much as they can.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
Yeah, don't use someone who was racist against people of African descent as an example that people of African descent should emulate.
Again, the entire history of LGBT rights was changed thanks to people using violence and rioting. We would have nothing like we currently have if some people hadn't kicked back, violently, against the systems oppressing them.
maquiladora
Member
You cannot reason with oppression and hate. You have to confront it and combat it.
It's that "fuck you got mine" mentality.
Let me get this straight you just upended the idea of non violence to a race issue . For your information both Luther king and Mandela considered him an inspiration . Or do you think both of they disrespect you too ?
I disagree my countries existence proves otherwise to me . But movements are different . And my views may be different .
The level of violence in any given period of interregnum during some coal change is the squally commensurate with the level of deprivation, oppression & violencecrequired to overcome the oppressor.
The 'Glorious Revolution' in the U.K. might not have been a bloodbath like The Terror, but the quiet usurpation of the throne by a largely non-oppressed merchant & professional class had been preceded by centuries of bloody religious conflict, a civil war followed by regicide & an incomplete revolution (which ch in turn led to years of quiet revenge, localised pogroms and so on. It also failed to secure any real improvements for the ordinary person.
finowns
Member
This thread is hilarious. Who knew we had so many bad asses on GAF.
Lord Thrappleper The 49th
Member
Dude. Just fight. Start a civil uprising. Get a propaganda war going. Get the common people involved. A lot of people are willing to fight, they're just waiting for somebody else to fire the first shot.
I knew about slactivism wasn't aware it turned into badasstivism.
yeah I'm sure life means nothing to these postersWtf am I reading ... You guys even have a plan ? Otherwise you're essentially the liberal equivalent of trump supporters who just wanted to upend the system because their single/narrow issue concern of loss of jobs / anti establishment .
Pause . Think about what you're saying
Audioboxer
Member
Yeah, as much as I can empathize with the majority of the OP and posts from minorities on GAF it's almost as if some don't actually study about history when openly calling for another civil war. I get emotions are running high but genuinely calling for a civil war? Talk about crazy.
If any of you ever do kick off mass violence and bloodshed the rest of the world will observe and look very poorly on you. As much as you might not give a shit about the outsiders observing you'll probably end up dead very quickly anyway.
The state will protect itself and its people from you running around with guns and firing at others, so like it or not you'll be dead in no time once the armed special forces get called in to snuff you and any pockets of fighters out. Honestly, think before posting such disrespectful nonsense. Those who have died before you in different times do not deserve to be mocked by people wanting to start a civil war because of Donald fucking Trump.
By the way Trump is probably going to be worse than a shitty president, more so because of who he is surrounded by than his buffoon ass himself. I don't think the guy actually gives a shit about a lot of things, but those around him especially the conservative Christians do. However a response to this via war and bloodshed? America please, protest, vote and campaign, but don't be so stupid to try and get camps of people together to go to all out war.
Lord Thrappleper The 49th
Member
I'm not american. Therefore america's problems are not my problems. Also i'm not liberal. But in the absense of common decency, violence is a solution.
Or, i'm sure if all those dead black people had asked officer friendly really really nicely not to kill them they'd all be alive celebrating racial harmony today.
This isnt a political issue either. Its a humanitarian one. This will not be resolved with peaceful protests or debate. Because the guys in charge dont want it to change. They like being on the top. They dont have empathy. They dont have sympathy. All they have is power and money. And they will gladly pay a thousand people to shut protestors up then give it all up.
The oppressors are ready for war. Its about time the oppressed are too.
tekumseh
a mass of phermones, hormones and adrenaline just waiting to explode
I wouldn't dare to speak for everyone, but not everyone would fail to respond. I've never owned weapons in my life before, but I do now.
There were people in Germany who responded to Hitler, it just wasn't enough.
Audioboxer
Member
Well thank fuck you aren't American. You'd be one hell of a liability to the safety of those around you. If you don't mind sharing where are you from? I'm wondering if it's a country rife with violence right now that would influence you to see it as just another thing you do on a Monday morning.
And just so you know this will be resolved politically and by voting. As it was in the past when Republicans get into power. You have to campaign to vote them out when elections come round.
Donald Trump isn't opening concentration camps so anyone engaging in that nonsense is doing their own mental psyche more damage than good. Cmon.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
🤔
Audioboxer
Member
Care to elaborate? I mean if you read those posts and think they are excellent forward thinking ways to success that is on you.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I don't get why you pretend to care about the safety of minorities on the US.
Audioboxer
Member
So handwave his calls to violence and get annoyed at a GAFer stating they don't believe those views will succeed? So I guess what you are saying is if I ask for a call to violence and a civil war that is what means I care about minorities in the US? Just ignore everything I said above and be annoyed I'm not asking for violence? What a terrible way to think.
Maybe you should consider that stating how badly a civil war will end for minorities is in itself a form of caring. Caring that many don't get wiped out on mass from trying to start militant violent movements. As others have said though wish for that to happen and see the consequences if you please.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I'm saying your pearl clutching is transparent as fuck seeing as how this doesn't even affect you
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
MLK is not black Jesus. His thoughts and opinions are not sacred to us.
He may have been inspired by a racist but for me Im not taking inspiration from anyone who thought of people like me as savages.
Audioboxer
Member
Nor does it affect that poster who says they don't live in America, so why aren't you saying the same to them?
You disagree on what? It is factual, objective, undeniable history that the modern LGBT rights movement was born in violent protest against the state and society that oppressed us.
I'm not saying that it always has to be that way - my point was that people talking about Gandhi as if that's the only way to proceed are absolutely wrong.
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