Support NeoGAF

[KernelPanic]

You've got an incoming Russian backed fascist kleptocracy coming in and they want to work with them?

Democrats should be demanding the long form birth certificate of every member of his administration handwritten on papyrus scrolls by Trump himself.

And that's only after he provides Obama's "real birth certificate"

 

[Valhelm]

You've got an incoming Russian backed fascist kleptocracy coming in and they want to work with them?

Democrats should be demanding the long form birth certificate of every member of his administration handwritten on papyrus scrolls by Trump himself.

And that's only after he provides Obama's "real birth certificate"

Will this help the Democrats in 2018? Or 2020?

 

[The Technomancer]

Will this help the Democrats in 2018? Or 2020?

I don't know, but I also don't know enough to be sure that helping Republicans with anything might also not bite them in the ass. Democrats work on an infrastructure bill and suddenly now a bunch of GOP have a big victory to run on

 

[Vicetrailia]

It's not about etiquette so much as what's good for the country. Sanders wouldn't go for a government shutdown if the Democrats somehow got another majority. He's probably suggesting that Democrats should be willing to cooperate on any GOP legislation that isn't harmful (like infrastructure spending SL128 said).

But this causes a problem. Allowing Trump a victory, even on issues where he might not be totally wrong, will improve his standing among American voters and potentially hurt the Democrats in the long term. On the flipside, a complete refusal to work with Trump on all policy could hurt a lot of people. It also would not endear the Democrats to voters, especially those in the middle.

This is a pretty tricky situation. Republicans are such an ideological party that they know their voters will turn out no matter what tricks they pull, but Democrats don't have much idealism to fall back to.

.
We like good effective policy and welcome it, but the problem is what we're expecting them to deliver the first few years. That is what everyone is talking about. We're already waging war on those items because there is a ton of stuff to fight over.

 

[SL128]

I don't know, but I also don't know enough to be sure that helping Republicans with anything might also not bite them in the ass. Democrats work on an infrastructure bill and suddenly now a bunch of GOP have a big victory to run on

The angle Sanders has been going for is mostly focused on things that Trump (ostensibly) agrees with Democrats but not Republicans on, healthcare and infrastructure have been what he's talked about most. It drives a wedge between Trump and the GOP, and exposes Trump's hypocrisy when he likely breaks his promises (which Sanders is working to publicize).

 

[KRod-57]

Is there anywhere online I can watch this?

 

[Pandaman]

I'm somewhat concerned about Bernie being the active face of political resistance against Trump and then come 2020 not being able to run due to health reasons. There's a need for more batters at the plate, just in case.

 

[studyguy]

I'm somewhat concerned about Bernie being the active face of political resistance against Trump and then come 2020 not being able to run due to health reasons. There's a need for more batters at the plate, just in case.

Welcome to the Democratic party bench for a while now.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

Welcome to the Democratic party bench for a while now.

Then come up to the plate! When they say Bernie is a grass root movement, they're not kidding. No one knew who this guy was when he put out his bid and did a speech in a park to like twenty people. But he kept at it, and got more and more people excited in him, and got further than any single person would have imagined. If you want more vocal Dems then start having them do speeches in parks to maybe twenty people.

 

[War Peaceman]

Even though I'm not a huge fan of Bernie, any effort to make people engage in politics as a continual process is doing the right thing. They do need to avoid purity tests, though. That way lies defeat.

 

[kirblar]

Will this help the Democrats in 2018? Or 2020?

All evidence says that mass obstuctionism would help in 2018, yes.

https://twitter.com/cnn/status/818682769408741377

Respect level dropping. His silence on the Russia hacking/interference is mind boggling.

The passive aggressive silence on this stuff is because he was the other side of Trump's anti-establishment coin during the primaries and he's still actively targeting that same group of voters.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

"I'm going to listen to what Jeff Sessions has to say. I've known Jeff for many, many years."

–Bernie Sanders


Nah.


I'll be nice and add the full context. But the point stands: folks like Sanders stay giving these motherfuckers inches when they are miles ahead.

"I'm going to listen to what Jeff Sessions has to say. I've known Jeff for many, many years but I have very, very strong concerns and I think the issue you raise about the Voting Rights Act and how the Supreme Court, a few years ago, gutted the Voting Rights Act—and that right now in state after state, Republican states, what they are doing—it's really kind of unbelievable when you think about it. They're working overtime not to expand democracy, not to bring more people into the political process. They're trying to make it harder for people to vote under the guise of voter fraud."

"Thank God in America voter fraud is very, very rare but (Republican states) are using that argument to make it harder for poor people, for old people, for people of color to vote. I consider this to be one of the most significant issues facing our country. So I will listen to what Senator Sessions has to say, but I share your concerns."

"All that I am doing here is trying to be polite," he said, declining to say how he would vote on the nominations. "Before I vote against them, I want to hear what they're going to say."

 

[water_wendi]

Going full on obstructionist is the wrong call.

 

[PdotMichael]

Think it's better to stonewall and destroy. Everything they wanna do liberals don't agree with except for what, trade deals.

Democrats have like no way to stonewall anything. The party got reduced to a toothless paper tiger.

 

[Byakuya769]

"I'm going to listen to what Jeff Sessions has to say. I've known Jeff for many, many years."

–Bernie Sanders


Nah.

You get so many passes as a white racist.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Going full on obstructionist is the wrong call.

They'll be forced to obstruct 90 percent of it anyway because of how much will be untenable.

 

[Zyae]

I'd take Sanders over Trump in a hotswap, but I don't want Sanders running for the presidency again.

I think Sanders is very good at energizing people but that we can do much better in who we elect to the highest office. That's all

who is "much better"

All evidence says that mass obstuctionism would help in 2018, yes.

The passive aggressive silence on this stuff is because he was the other side of Trump's anti-establishment coin during the primaries and he's still actively targeting that same group of voters.

you mean the group of voters that swapped dem to gop to vote for Trump. You know Clinton lost right?

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

"I'm going to listen to what Jeff Sessions has to say. I've known Jeff for many, many years."

–Bernie Sanders


Nah.

Say one day you are all in on civil rights, the next you'll listen to what Jeff "disgrace to his race" Sessions has to say.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

You get so many passes as a white racist.

He did go after Sessions about the voting rights stuff and blah blah blah, but this is the disconnect.

This motherfucker will STILL be listened to.

 

[Frozenprince]

You get so many passes as a white racist.

He didn't mean it you guys it was such a long time ago that he was disproportionately putting black kids in jail as AG for a major state.

Give him a chance!

 

[Red]

Bernie isn't selling himself as only an "angry outsider." That argument doesn't hold water (what happens to him then if he wins? what does he rally against if his policies are enacted?). He is selling—or trying to sell—a platform of effectiveness. He's said repeatedly that he is willing to work with Donald on policies that benefit people, and that he will fight any policy that hurts the working class and the disenfranchised. He's been consistent on this from day one (I think his reaction tweet to Don's win said exactly this, in fact). There is no point in obstruction for obstruction's sake. Nothing gets done that way. No one benefits. He argues you don't ignore the immediate needs of your constituency for political gain. You don't obstruct legislation that could help people just because it might make the other guys look ineffective.

 

[Boney]

I don't know, but I also don't know enough to be sure that helping Republicans with anything might also not bite them in the ass. Democrats work on an infrastructure bill and suddenly now a bunch of GOP have a big victory to run on

Being obstructionist in order to play politics and partisanships instead of singling out each and every plans proposed and identifying which can help people is more important, I agree.

 

[Henkka]

I see Bernie has learned nothing from Trump, no one's gonna remember 23 questions. Boil it down to 2, and them repeat constantly with maximal bombast.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Bernie isn't selling himself as only an "angry outsider." That argument doesn't hold water (what happens to him then if he wins? what does he rally against if his policies are enacted?). He is selling—or trying to sell—a platform of effectiveness. He's said repeatedly that he is willing to work with Donald on policies that benefit people, and that he will fight any policy that hurts the working class and the disenfranchised. He's been consistent on this from day one (I think his reaction tweet to Don's win said exactly this, in fact). There is no point in obstruction for obstruction's sake. Nothing gets done that way. No one benefits. He argues you don't ignore the immediate needs of your constituency for political gain. You don't obstruct legislation that could help people just because it might make the other guys look ineffective.

Obstructism actually favors Republicans. If they can't have their legislation passed, they'd rather have the government shut down or skeleton budgets be passed.

Like it or not the Democratic agenda largely revolves around actually passing measures, which will require them to work with Republicans to try to improve whatever is being pushed forward.

I'm confident Bernie will remain vigilant on social issue things, which is the one area you really need to watch Trump and his picks on.

 

[creatchee]

How do we stop the movement toward oligarchy in our country in which the economic and political life of the United States is increasingly controlled by a handful of billionaires?

Uh, Bern... My man...

We've been there for decades, if not centuries.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Keep shouting Bernie. I don't want you as a leader but I'll sure as hell take you as a rabble rouser

:lol And now you have Trump as your president. Congrats, you played yourself America.

This post symbolizes so much in why the Democrats are losing everything.

 

[Adam_Vania]

How do we do this without the left being propagandized as extreme in our center-right culture?

this happens anyways, they need to not be chicken shit about it and try standing something that isn't just how to be politically calculating.

the alternative is moving further and further to the right to appease a vocal minority that fundamentally disagrees w you.

 

[Aaronology]

Being obstructionist in order to play politics and partisanships instead of singling out each and every plans proposed and identifying which can help people is more important, I agree.

I also agree, if 1) this is what energizes the base and allows Democrats to shed their image of being push overs who won't stand up to opposition and 2) doing so puts the party in a politically advantageous position to provide sustained and considerably more substantial help to even more people at a later point that is not beholden to the whims of the GOP.

I don't subscribe to the idea that playing politics and partisanships, as you call it, is automatically a bad thing. That's the game, and we can either start playing it to win or keep floundering. The contest between these two political parties stopped being a friendly match of Tennis some time ago.