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[i-Lo]

The Asari were designed from ME1 to be a species with a romance option, which is why they look identical to humans except for blue coloration and head tentacles. The Asari are, as a result, the worst species in ME from a design standpoint. Utterly lazy and poorly thought out. The only reason Tali didn't look like a purple woman from the first game was because she was not planned to be a romance option, like Garrus. Although we already directly saw Garrus' face in ME1, so they couldn't change that while Tali's face (and all quarian faces) were a mystery and they could make it whatever they wanted. I just want to emphasize the idea that "romance = ludicrously human design" was there right from the start, rather than being something that came in later entries (and I can see in this thread people are already incorporating this into the "ME1 = god, all later entries suck" narrative).

Oh welcome to my team good sir.

 

[Kinyou]

What? Obviously, more alien = more better. See following.

Her hands and feet were already pretty freaky, so I agree that some more alien looking tali would have been better

Also does the long hair not make that much sense considering that they're spending their entire life in a suit

 

[Bisnic]

Love this one, why didn't they put this in the frame? -_- That's it, this is now Talis face in my mind.

Yeah, i don't get it. If they already had concept arts, why not using them instead of taking some picture from the internet and photoshopping it?

 

[AlimNassor]

Even this would have been better:

 

[i-Lo]

I have said this before in the other ME thread to which EatChildren did have great response, and I'll say it again:

The biggest issue or hole all these mainstream game developers cling to like a gum would to a shoe is their insatiable desire to make alien designs (ranging from life forms to inanimate objects) "relatable".

Anything that would potentially hinder the narrative understood from human perspective has been, is being and probably will be discarded for a long time to come.

 

[Winterfang]

I think the Asari are a very original version of Space Elves. It has all of the tropes but they are all female, they don't look just like humans with the pointy ears, they a blue, have tentacles on their heads, a very unsettling back of the head, possibly different genitalia and they come in a lot of flavors. While the Matriarch ones act like space elves should, you see the young ones in a great variety of jobs, looks and personalities. Strippers, mercenaries, commandos, specters, bartenders, mafia bosses, secretaries, shop keepers etc...

Good point about Liara being design to be Shepard love interest. I noticed she is the only Asari with eyebrows.

I also don't think Clown face Tali makes any sense, it goes against the design and it looks off. It makes sense that she is pale but it looks off design wise.

 

[androvsky]

I have said this before in the other ME thread to which EatChildren did have great response, and I'll say it again:

The biggest issue or hole all these mainstream game developers cling to like a gum would to a shoe is their insatiable desire to make alien designs (ranging from life forms to inanimate objects) "relatable".

Anything that would potentially hinder the narrative understood from human perspective has been, is being and probably will be discarded for a long time to come.

It's not just game designers, I seem to recall complaints in sci-fi novel circles along the same lines. We have to keep in mind these aliens are written by humans to be read by humans. They can only be so exotic before the readers and eventually even the authors lose all connections to the characters, resulting in a likely nonsensical story.

Granted, few of the Mass Effect aliens go very far down that path, but we still have the Rachni. Or at least I do.
Edit: and the Hanar, and Elcor. Those are decently alien aliens for any medium.

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

My first thought was "hey. It's the Tallest from Invader Zim!"

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Concept art looks way better than end-result.

 

[Winterfang]

It's not just game designers, I seem to recall complaints in sci-fi novel circles along the same lines. We have to keep in mind these aliens are written by humans to be read by humans. They can only be so exotic before the readers and eventually even the authors lose all connections to the characters, resulting in a likely nonsensical story.

Granted, few of the Mass Effect aliens goodo very far down that path, but we still have the Rachni. Or at least I do.
Edit: and the Hanar, and Elcor. Those are decently alien aliens for any medium.

That's the thing. Had the Geth physical body being insect like, I would had let them all die. But because Legion is slightly more humanoid I had more empathy. The reapers look also like bugs and they are the enemy but when the Catalyst appeared on the form of a kid, I paid close attention to what he had to said.

It's like if we had gotten the choice of even saving the Elcor or the Turians. The Elcor seem to be a conservative and decent bunch but they are too alien for me to care.

 

[Skilotonn]

Man I love Mass Effect art. Which is why I bought all of the artbooks the instant they each came out.

 

[Ephemeris]

I loved the finale stage art

 

[AlimNassor]

That's the thing. Had the Geth physical body being insect like, I would had let them all die. But because Legion is slightly more humanoid I had more empathy. The reapers look also like bugs and they are the enemy but when the Catalyst appeared on the form of a kid, I paid close attention to what he had to said.

It's like if we had gotten the choice of even saving the Elcor or the Turians. The Elcor seem to be a conservative and decent bunch but they are too alien for me to care.

I don't understand this logic. You can empathize with your pets right? So why does something not looking human mean you don't care if it dies even if it's intelligent? That's some fucked up logic and quite scary that because it doesn't look like us you can't empathize with them.

 

[SeriousApes]

Even this would have been better:

These are awesome

 

[Winterfang]

I don't understand this logic. You can empathize with your pets right? So why does something not looking human mean you don't care if it dies even if it's intelligent? That's some fucked up logic and quite scary that because it doesn't look like us you can't empathize with them.

I empathize with pets but I empathize in a deeper way with people and hold them in a higher regard. The closer the aliens are to humans, the more empathy I have. I don't care how smart the are, Rachni are just speaking animals to me.

That's why is important to have humanoid looking aliens in a series where the interaction isn't just shooting each other.

 

[Nikodemos]

That's the thing. Had the Geth physical body being insect like, I would had let them all die. But because Legion is slightly more humanoid I had more empathy. The reapers look also like bugs and they are the enemy but when the Catalyst appeared on the form of a kid, I paid close attention to what he had to said.

It's like if we had gotten the choice of even saving the Elcor or the Turians. The Elcor seem to be a conservative and decent bunch but they are too alien for me to care.

Bioware focus tester discovered.

 

[Victrix]

It's not just game designers, I seem to recall complaints in sci-fi novel circles along the same lines. We have to keep in mind these aliens are written by humans to be read by humans. They can only be so exotic before the readers and eventually even the authors lose all connections to the characters, resulting in a likely nonsensical story.

Granted, few of the Mass Effect aliens go very far down that path, but we still have the Rachni. Or at least I do.
Edit: and the Hanar, and Elcor. Those are decently alien aliens for any medium.

I think it's acceptable to have blue sexaliens as a compromise for also having really weird and unusual aliens in a mass market and very popular game. That's hardly a failure on every level, and ME explored some really thoughtful territory with both potential future tech and alien civilizations. And some not so thoughtful territory, but that's ok too.

Hell, I still love Star Control 2 races more than a lot of more recent sci fi games, and one of them is also a literal blue sexalien with dildos as their starships.

It's ok to have some cheese mixed in with... the wine

 

[televator]

Even this would have been better:

They could have been the alien equivalent of intelligent dinosaurs with laser guns. It would have been awesome.

 

[deim0s]

This is loads better than the T-1000 we had in ME2.

 

[K' Dash]

this thread is nightmare fuel, I'm out.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I think the Asari are a very original version of Space Elves. It has all of the tropes but they are all female, they don't look just like humans with the pointy ears, they a blue, have tentacles on their heads, a very unsettling back of the head, possibly different genitalia and they come in a lot of flavors. While the Matriarch ones act like space elves should, you see the young ones in a great variety of jobs, looks and personalities. Strippers, mercenaries, commandos, specters, bartenders, mafia bosses, secretaries, shop keepers etc...

Good point about Liara being design to be Shepard love interest. I noticed she is the only Asari with eyebrows.

I also don't think Clown face Tali makes any sense, it goes against the design and it looks off. It makes sense that she is pale but it looks off design wise.

I believe that at one point someone from BioWare did point out that Liara is the only asari with "eyebrows" (they're just the (natural?) facial markings that asari have, but exactly shaped like eyebrows and in the right spots), and that they did it specifically because they thought people wouldn't want to be close to or intimate with an alien if it didn't have eyebrows.

See also: them not realizing that people would want to romance Garrus or Tali because they're weird "chicken people," Casey Hudson not understanding the the idea of players being just as moved by seeing asari children getting killed by the Reapers as a single human child on Earth.

 

[Trojita]

Wait Mass Effect 3 Spoilers

Spoiler

The Mass Relays get destroyed? I Still need to finish Mass Effect 3. Didn't expect there to be a spoiler in the OP.

 

[Ephemeris]

Wait Mass Effect 3 Spoilers

Spoiler

The Mass Relays get destroyed? I Still need to finish Mass Effect 3. Didn't expect there to be a spoiler in the OP.

You shouldn't have come here!

 

[DTKT]

Wait Mass Effect 3 Spoilers

Spoiler

The Mass Relays get destroyed? I Still need to finish Mass Effect 3. Didn't expect there to be a spoiler in the OP.

Spoiler

They don't. The confusion comes from the original ending where you would see them glow and then "shoot" light in every direction. Then, everyone assumed that the relays were gone.

 

[Syntax]

Really, really like this.

Always how I imagined her.

Her hands and feet were already pretty freaky, so I agree that some more alien looking tali would have been better

It's always disheartening when the alien races end up as little more than a different flavor of human. Maybe it does make them more relatable but it definitely makes them less unique, less alien. Most of science fiction and fantasy suffer the safe shortcoming, though. It's not unique to ME by any stretch.

That can be viewed as a reflection of how closed we are to anything foreign. Granted that ultimately these are all human creations - ideas of what aliens might be - and so will never truly be alien since they come from us. But it's still poor form not to explore the fringes of our imagination and continually play it safe. Also a bit insulting after reading the following bit from the linked website in the OP.

The debate about whether or not to reveal Tali’s face was another one that lasted a long time. Versions of her were being worked on fairly often. These were three that I thought worked in their own way. Personally, I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to push players to the edge. Tali was like a pen pal, or a friend you’ve only ever known online. Depending on how attached to her a player was, how well could they handle her appearance challenging their expectations? If she looked a little too alien, just a little too repellant, would they still feel the same way about her? Or did her personality and your history together trump appearances? It’s an interesting area to explore and I hope we can find other ways to ask that question.

Hopefully Matt's right and there'll be other opportunities down the road. However, the idea that Mass Effect characters and, in fact, whole species were designed around our penises is absolutely ridiculous. If I can't put my cock in it, I can't care about it? Holy crap.

 

[HDgaming42]

I empathize with pets but I empathize in a deeper way with people and hold them in a higher regard. The closer the aliens are to humans, the more empathy I have. I don't care how smart the are, Rachni are just speaking animals to me.

That's why is important to have humanoid looking aliens in a series where the interaction is just shooting each other.

Many of the evils in this world are driven by the premise that things that don't look like us don't deserve the same treatment that we do. Please re-examine this mentality...

if only in the selfish hope we can have nicer things.

Statement in general--not directly at you Winterfang:

I've had enough fetish wank material shoe-horned into ME as it is. It doesn't need another race / genetic super being / tatt'd bad girl / child-like accent totting / celebrity cameo sex doll rammed into it so I've got something I want to fuck.

SHOOT'N BUGS AND FUCK'N BITCHES, YEEEEEHAAAAAAAAW!!!! I'M SPACE JESUS!!!

That's why is important to have humanoid looking aliens in a series where the interaction is just shooting each other.

Where exactly did you pick up this series?

 

[Winterfang]

Sorry I meant to say in the series where you Don't Just shoot each other. For example the Aliens in Halo or Metal Slug. It came across as the complete opposite because of that typo.

 

[HDgaming42]

However, the idea that Mass Effect characters and, in fact, whole species were designed around our penises is absolutely ridiculous. If I can't put my cock in it, I can't care about it? Holy crap.

I don't think the argument is that whole species were designed from the ground up to be play-things, but that they were subtly altered so as to not interfere with them being "playthings". See eyebrows above.

It depends on how much you want to read into "making them relatable" I suppose. Let's be honest, BioWare is all about the monies, and sex sells.

The ME universe would not have as many sales if they hadn't satisfied the desires of extreme Tali-mancers and other absolutely about the sex gamers who seem to frequent those forums.

You don't have to cast your net very far to get comments like "all I wanted to do in ME was sleep with Liara."

You don't see a lot of that talk regarding the Hanar...

 

[HDgaming42]

Sorry I meant to say in the series where you Don't Just shoot each other. For example the Aliens in Halo or Metal Slug. It came across as the complete opposite because of that typo.

That's unfortunate. I was really hoping to go on a tear about the evils of tacking multiplayer onto ME3.

 

[Toxi]

It looks like a series that is about different species coming together and unifying against a greater threat was too chicken to have those different species actually be very different.

Spoiler

They don't. The confusion comes from the original ending where you would see them glow and then "shoot" light in every direction. Then, everyone assumed that the relays were gone.

I thought the confusion came from the original ending where we see one glow, shoot light out, and then explode.

Because that's kinda what happened in the original ending. Them being merely damaged was a retcon in the extended cut.

 

[inky]

I have said this before in the other ME thread to which EatChildren did have great response, and I'll say it again:

The biggest issue or hole all these mainstream game developers cling to like a gum would to a shoe is their insatiable desire to make alien designs (ranging from life forms to inanimate objects) "relatable".

Well, this is what Bioware designers thought about female aliens a couple of years back:

They’re all males in the game. We usually try to avoid the females because what do you do with a female Turian? Do you give her breasts? What do you do? Do you put lipstick on her? There’s actually some of the concept artists will draw lipstick on the male one and they’ll say “Hey, it’s done” and we’ll go “No, can you take this serious?”

so it's more like they don't even know how to make females relatable at all if they don't have boobs or lipstick (eg. EDI as well). so it might be they are about as clueless as the teenagers they are trying so hard to appeal to.

 

[Kinyou]

Also a bit insulting after reading the following bit from the linked website in the OP.

Hopefully Matt's right and there'll be other opportunities down the road. However, the idea that Mass Effect characters and, in fact, whole species were designed around our penises is absolutely ridiculous. If I can't put my cock in it, I can't care about it? Holy crap.

It's really sad. It will be hard to have an opportunity like this again when you want to do it with a character that has been established over several years and who is a love interest for the player.

 

[i-Lo]

Well, this is what Bioware designers thought about female aliens a couple of years back:



so it's more like they don't even know how to make females relatable at all if they don't have boobs or lipstick (eg. EDI as well). so it might be they are about as clueless as the teenagers they are trying so hard to appeal to.

 

[Bisnic]

Well, this is what Bioware designers thought about female aliens a couple of years back:



so it's more like they don't even know how to make females relatable at all if they don't have boobs or lipstick (eg. EDI as well). so it might be they are about as clueless as the teenagers they are trying so hard to appeal to.

Well, they still managed to make the female turians different enough from the males without simply using the male model and applying lipstick or boobs. Now i wonder if they're gonna bother with their next game to make a female salarian model or use the male model with 0 modifications again.

 

[Thug Waffle]

Franchise would've been better with Bubblehead.

 

[Nirolak]

Well, they still managed to make the female turians different enough from the males without simply using the male model and applying lipstick or boobs. Now i wonder if they're gonna bother with their next game to make a female salarian model or use the male model with 0 modifications again.

Montreal seems to be much more comfortable working with and designing the aliens between Nyreen and the multiplayer.

I distinctly remember BioWare going "We can't have Volus in combat, they would look ridiculous," and now they're playable and well animated online.

 

[Exploding8]

They should have done the ME1 appearance for Tali. The Talimancers would have freaked out, but I prefer having alien races not looking quite so human.

I'd much rather that since its unique and believable (I don't get how the whole long hair thing would work out with the mask the way it is). Much better than a photoshop of some stock photo imo

edit:

Its more that...although there are creepy fans for everything...the creepy Tali fans get really really creepy

Too be fair... I've read much, much creepier stuff from fans of other games

 

[Bisnic]

Montreal seems to be much more comfortable working with and designing the aliens between Nyreen and the multiplayer.

I distinctly remember BioWare going "We can't have Volus in combat, they would look ridiculous," and now they're playable and well animated online.

Yeah, you know something is weird when multiplayer races seems better animated than Shepard. Love that Krogan Warlord's hammer animation.

 

[i-Lo]

Yeah, you know something is weird when multiplayer races seems better animated than Shepard. Love that Krogan Warlord's hammer animation.

Do you have a visual example of this (I stopped playing the game a long time ago)?

 

[Syntax]

I don't think the argument is that whole species were designed from the ground up to be play-things, but that they were subtly altered so as to not interfere with them being "playthings". See eyebrows above.

It depends on how much you want to read into "making them relatable" I suppose. Let's be honest, BioWare is all about the monies, and sex sells.

I thought the Asari as a race were designed to be likable. That's not the case?

 

[Brawndo Addict]

I read through to see if anyone quoted the section where Matt Rhodes talks about how Tali's face could have coincided with some really interesting psychological questions, which someone already did. Its criminal that Bioware eschewed this choice which combined art and gameplay in favor of a lazy photoshop. Man, seeing the diversity of player reaction to something like that would have been just extraordinary. And its such an obvious allegory that I doubt anyone could be ignorant of what their reactions imply.

Hopefully Matt's right and there'll be other opportunities down the road. However, the idea that Mass Effect characters and, in fact, whole species were designed around our penises is absolutely ridiculous. If I can't put my cock in it, I can't care about it? Holy crap.

I assume you're making a dig against the higher ups and not just the artists. Matt clearly knew it was a good idea, (he said Tali has always been the white face alien design in his mind), but he's not the guy in charge of making the ultimate decision about what goes in and what doesn't. The mostly humanoid aliens was influenced by considerations of empathy and attractiveness for sure, but keeping the alien species humanoid also allowed them to recycle assets like animation to help cut down on production costs; Matt's disturbing fleshy human mask alien wasn't "penis driven" by any stretch.There was also an important exchange in the comments about how Matt admits he has tried to actively change the way he designs female characters since getting married and having a daughter.

Hello Mr. Rhodes!

I really enjoy your art and your vision. I think you're very talanted. Which is why it kinda sucks to see your female designs. You have these strong, amazing personalities and yet you dress them in skimpy clothing and armour that revelas what it should protect, and then you place them in these ridiculous contortionist poses. I see this over and over again, and as a woman and a person who really enjoys your games, I find that kind of hurtful. You have this huge part of your fanbase who are just waiting for you to do right by them.

Thanks everyone! Glad more people find this interesting than just me.

Malin S Larsson, I hear you. My only explanation is that these were drawn when I was younger and very single. I'm excited to show off the concept art we've done for Dragon Age Inquisition. I have a feeling you'll be pleasantly surprised by the effect my strong, intelligent wife and beautiful little daughter have had on my portrayal of women. Taking part in the creation of quality female role models has become a priority for me over the last few years.

 

[truestatic]

Spoiler

They don't. The confusion comes from the original ending where you would see them glow and then "shoot" light in every direction. Then, everyone assumed that the relays were gone.

Don't read this spoiler, Trojita!

Spoiler

I can't tell if you're just saying that for Trojita's benefit or if you actually think that's what it showed. The surface of the relay shown is covered in explosions, before it is engulfed in a massive explosion, from which we can see enormous parts fly away as debris. The relay blew up.

Do you have a visual example of this (I stopped playing the game a long time ago)?

I don't have a really good gif that shows both in isolation, but here's a video of a guy showing off the Krogan Warlord class.

Here's a video of Sheploo running, and another of Femshep running.

 

[truestatic]

double post, sorry.

 

[akira28]

Why couldn't they have used any of these instead of that last minute Photoshop bullshit? Hell, that second one would have worked perfectly as a photo of her.

I sometimes wonder if some of that might have been insider "fuck yous" to the people who would understand them.

 

[i-Lo]

Don't read this spoiler, Trojita!

Spoiler

I can't tell if you're just saying that for Trojita's benefit or if you actually think that's what it showed. The surface of the relay shown is covered in explosions, before it is engulfed in a massive explosion, from which we can see enormous parts away as debris. The relay blew up.

I don't have a really good gif that shows both in isolation, but here's a video of a guy showing off the Krogan Warlord class.

Here's a video of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaOg63ASkkY, and another of Femshep running.

Thank you, kind sir.

 

[HDgaming42]

Femshep running.

Criminal. Absolutely criminal.

 

[inky]

Well, they still managed to make the female turians different enough from the males without simply using the male model and applying lipstick or boobs. Now i wonder if they're gonna bother with their next game to make a female salarian model or use the male model with 0 modifications again.

Oh yes, I forgot about that. Well, I stopped playing by that point so I never got to see it. Hopefully they learned something, I guess, but this generation Bioware has been incredibly childish in their handling of females, not only in ME.

 

[Bisnic]

Do you have a visual example of this (I stopped playing the game a long time ago)?

Well, somebody already answered you, but this video shows both(normal and heavy) hammer attacks, and isnt 20+ mins long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GBYdAYfSKOU&t=83

 

[Syntax]

I read through to see if anyone quoted the section where Matt Rhodes talks about how Tali's face could have coincided with some really interesting psychological questions, which someone already did. Its criminal that Bioware eschewed this choice which combined art and gameplay in favor of a lazy photoshop. Man, seeing the diversity of player reaction to something like that would have been just extraordinary. And its such an obvious allegory that I doubt anyone could be ignorant of what their reactions imply.

I assume you're making a dig against the higher ups and not just the artists. Matt clearly knew it was a good idea, (he said Tali has always been the white face alien design in his mind), but he's not the guy in charge of making the ultimate decision about what goes in and what doesn't. The mostly humanoid aliens was influenced by considerations of empathy and attractiveness for sure, but keeping the alien species humanoid also allowed them to recycle assets like animation to help cut down on production costs; Matt's disturbing fleshy human mask alien wasn't 'penis driven' by any stretch.

My 'dig' was exclusively at the decision-makers at Bioware, not at Matt personally. As you and he make clear, Matt was pro-alien Tali.

Your second point about costs and technical concerns is one I've heard before. Specifically, I recall having the discussion with someone over playable character races in MMO games. It's a more valid excuse than not as hot. That doesn't excuse them completely, though. Within the confines of humanoid more could be done to distinguish the races, make them other than human. Sadly, we probably won't see anything too non-human as long as it's easier to just cut and paste races.

 

[mikeGFG]

Well, this is what Bioware designers thought about female aliens a couple of years back:



so it's more like they don't even know how to make females relatable at all if they don't have boobs or lipstick (eg. EDI as well). so it might be they are about as clueless as the teenagers they are trying so hard to appeal to.

I think theyre simply coming at this from a budget-time perspective-- its extremely expensive to conceptualize, render and animate a female counterpart to a new alien race in a game like Mass Effect.