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[Dick Jones]

The Xbox E3 (whatever the big June showcase will be called) show is going to be 🗑 if they go talking about mobile for the show. Shades of the classic 2013 Xbox shows [aka TV TV TV]

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Again... there is some sort of block here with you. Maybe it's because you're looking for a strawman.

Regulators will not make it mandatory to install anything. But they will likely mandate that carriers have the ability to add whatever they want... Can you not see the difference?

They probably won't mandate that the appstore be removed from the device, similar to how internet explorer wasn't removed, but they will restrict apple from preventing the installation of other software on the device before sale. And then Microsoft simply needs to pay to have the app pre-installed.

Once the appstore is on enough devices, Microsoft can pull their apps and games from the apple appstore.

You can make an argument that it won't be successful, but none of you are arguing the merits of the steps that can and probably will happen.

Regulators will never give carriers such legal privileges. You are deluding yourself if you think there’s any future where Microsoft can pay to have their bloatware installed by law.

And second, I’d like to hear you make an argument as to why “installing software on the phone” and “adding software to the phone” are different in any meaningful way. You never used the word “add” on your original post I replied to, by the way.

Your obstination in trying to argue against odds that carrier bloatware will become legally mandated to maintain the pretense that Microsoft can buy its way onto iPhones is worrying - are you getting something out of this?

 

[rm082e]

That's another poor example.

The green bubble has significance largely because of what it actually means. i.e. horrible video quality, broken up text messages, and broken reactions, no read receipts e.t.c.

The apple appstore gives no unique functionality what so ever. It's a storefront.

There are other other online shopping apps, but what percentage of the market still goes to Amazon?
There are other search engines out there, but what percentage of the market still uses Google?
There are other music streaming services, but what percentage of the market just uses Spotify?
There are other video streaming services, but look at how well Netflix continues to dominate.

You are correct there's no advantage to the app store, and logically this should have a chance. I'm just looking at consumer mindset. Most people find something that works, and it takes a titanic lift to get them deviate from what they know. I just don't think Microsoft will be able to offer enough compelling mobile games that aren't on the App Stores to get people using their new store.

 

[Bojanglez]

No one is happy to see Apple and Google dominate, we are just skeptical of MS' plan. Their plan doesn't seem built in reality and it's most likely doomed to fail like their other side projects.

I do agree, but I welcome them trying, worst (or maybe best) case is they fail and just focus on making software. My hope is that some of these stores shame Apple into easing some of their practices and make it a more reasonable ecosystem for devs.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

There are other other online shopping apps, but what percentage of the market still goes to Amazon?
There are other search engines out there, but what percentage of the market still uses Google?
There are other music streaming services, but what percentage of the market just uses Spotify?
There are other video streaming services, but look at how well Netflix continues to dominate.

You are correct there's no advantage to the app store, and logically this should have a chance. I'm just looking at consumer mindset. Most people find something that works, and it takes a titanic lift to get them deviate from what they know. I just don't think Microsoft will be able to offer enough compelling mobile games that aren't on the App Stores to get people using their new store.

There are other browsers other than internet explorer, but what percentage of the market ended up going to Google Chrome?

In all of the examples you gave you use a market leader with really specific attributes to their market share other than a lack of competition.

Those games that are currently on the Apple Appstore won't be in the future. There is going to be a slow migration. Eventually their productivity apps won't be there either. When/if enough people follow Microsoft with their appstore, the more popular it will become. The more money they spend on getting it preloaded onto devices, the more popular it will become.

There are absolutely ways to increase the market share for this and you're ignoring it because you don't like the idea of it or can't fathom one service overtaking another.

If you go to the apple appstore tell me what the top free apps are, how many of them are made by apple?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Regulators will never give carriers such legal privileges. You are deluding yourself if you think there’s any future where Microsoft can pay to have their bloatware installed by law.

And second, I’d like to hear you make an argument as to why “installing software on the phone” and “adding software to the phone” are different in any meaningful way. You never used the word “add” on your original post I replied to, by the way.

Your obstination in trying to argue against odds that carrier bloatware will become legally mandated to maintain the pretense that Microsoft can buy its way onto iPhones is worrying - are you getting something out of this?

Once again, the law won't force the installation of the software, but it will prevent apple from preventing the installation, and yeah, that's absolutely coming. It's one of the basises of the antitrust case.

It looks like you're playing semantics with yourself.

You keep getting it backwards because you have an agenda. Brush up on antitrust.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Once again, the law won't force the installation of the software, but it will prevent apple from preventing the installation, and yeah, that's absolutely coming. It's one of the basises of the antitrust case.

But there’s a difference between an user choosing to install a third party shop (or use a web based shop as is the case here) and this being protected by law (which is happening) and a very different thing to claim like you do that the law will give your carrier legal powers to do with your phone whatever it wants to do, including installing shitty game stores because they get a share of the revenue (or whatever other reason).

 

[Three]

Phil Spencer speculated about shutting down Xbox to start a mobile company within MS

www.neogaf.com

I guess it's all happening now

 

[Mibu no ookami]

But there’s a difference between an user choosing to install a third party shop (or use a web based shop as is the case here) and this being protected by law (which is happening) and a very different thing to claim like you do that the law will give your carrier legal powers to do with your phone whatever it wants to do, including installing shitty game stores because they get a share of the revenue (or whatever other reason).

And yet that is exactly what the DOJ is looking to breakup.

They've specifically cited Apple as creating an uncompetitive system with the inclusion of preloaded apps and their appstore.

We've run through the same situation with Microsoft. In the settlement with the government, Microsoft was forced to give PC manufacturers more flexibility with software offerings... it's like you're just ignoring history and reality.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

When you depend on the "benevolence" of the authorities to have a chance of success as the richest company in the world... the odds are not in your favor.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

LMAO they looked at the "success" of Epic Games Store and decided this is the future of Xbox?

 

[Vlodril]

I have said it before but they can't make people interested in their store on a OS where they have a monopoly. That is how bad they are at it. What are they smoking over there?

 

[Drew1440]

The problem here is if you just step back and think about the end state: Are people who use Apple phones really going to choose to go to a website and press a button to download an app that acts as a new storefront after they've spent their entire experience on Apple using the App Store? I get that they could, but does anyone really think a lot of people will do that? I think that idea is laughable.

Isn't that how Steam works on Windows, that people prefer to download and install a separate gaming store rather than use the built in Windows Store and Xbox app?

 

[rm082e]

Isn't that how Steam works on Windows, that people prefer to download and install a separate gaming store rather than use the built in Windows Store and Xbox app?

Steam established themselves as the gold standard marketplace for PC gaming before Microsoft came out with the Windows Store.

Microsoft tried to eat into that market by making some of the Xbox games exclusive to the Windows Store, but it failed terribly. All the other publishers did too. Activision had Battle.net, EA had Origin for a while, Ubisoft didn't make it mandatory, but they certainly want you to buy games from their client, and of course Epic Games Store. Despite all these contenders, the vast majority of PC gamers still use Steam to buy games. Activision and EA had to come back to Steam when they saw they couldn't get PC players to accept exclusivity in their launchers.

So yes, people can challenge Steam all they want. But Valve has convinced PC players to trust Steam the same way Apple has convinced iPhone owners to trust the Apple way.

The issue is trying to convince an entrenched base of users to do things differently. People generally don't want to, even if you can give them a logical reason why they should.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

We've run through the same situation with Microsoft. In the settlement with the government, Microsoft was forced to give PC manufacturers more flexibility with software offerings... it's like you're just ignoring history and reality.

PC Manufacturers and carriers aren't functionally equivalent and the fact you're reaching like that proves you know you made a mistake.

It will never happen. Microsoft will never be allowed to pay their way into iPhones by reaching agreements with carriers.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

PC Manufacturers and carriers aren't functionally equivalent and the fact you're reaching like that proves you know you made a mistake.

It will never happen. Microsoft will never be allowed to pay their way into iPhones by reaching agreements with carriers.

They're functionally the same in the sense that they're re-sellers.

pc manufacturers were selling windows and carriers are selling cell phones with ios that is about to become far more regulated.

the principal settlement is the exact same.

Microsoft limited what software PC manufacturers could load on the machines and that is what apple does as well.

When/if this happens, you won't even concede that you were wrong...

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

They're functionally the same in the sense that they're re-sellers.

They don't re-sell windows, they pay for it and pass it onto you as part of the purchase price of the device. As such they have full control of it.

You're making the argument that the government will legaly protect the right of car resellers to decide what paint you get or what color is the leather or what engine will be under the hood.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

They don't re-sell windows, they pay for it and pass it onto you as part of the purchase price of the device. As such they have full control of it.

You're making the argument that the government will legaly protect the right of car resellers to decide what paint you get or what color is the leather or what engine will be under the hood.

You're playing semantics.

But I think we've both made our stands, now we can wait to see what happens.

 

[skyfinch]

Nice! Time to dust off my Blackberry!

 

[Ozriel]

pipe dream that will go nowhere.

Xbox sacrificed for this. Microsoft just can’t help themselves.

 

[BoxFresh123]

And we're calling it Mixe......Zu.....

.......we're still work shopping names.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

MS just want to make money obviously, the reputational hit doesn't matter to them.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Why would any dev even want to use this store to sell apps?

Being a store that doesn't come default on the device is already going to be a barrier to entry for most. Unless they plan to pay to be bloatware on android phones, which isn't going to do them any favors.

I wish Microsoft would actually fill a need instead of trying to force their mediocrity on everyone.

 

[Woopah]

Thanks for the shout out. I try to be pretty effective in my analysis, so it's always appreciated when I'm not only proven right, but someone acknowledges it.

No worries!

I know we don't agree on how Media Create works or the PS5 situation in Japan; but I always appreciate the efforts you put into your posts and from what I've read we agree on several other topics.

 

[squarealex]

I dont know why they do this... I mean... they really think people on mobile they go outside than AppStore / Google Store ?

 

[UltimaKilo]

Then why was MS ceo asking Phil about console sales in 2021 and worried about not getting to far behind Sony?

Because revenue. Moreover, before the massive acquisitions, Xbox was a blip for MS. It was so tiny in fact, that many investors (myself included) were pushing for MS to shut down the division entirely (I no longer advocate for that). Since then, Phil Spencer has gone on a spending spree, drawing the eye of investors and the board to Xbox. Ultimately, this might be his own undoing. It’s time to produce, and quick.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Steam established themselves as the gold standard marketplace for PC gaming before Microsoft came out with the Windows Store.

Microsoft tried to eat into that market by making some of the Xbox games exclusive to the Windows Store, but it failed terribly. All the other publishers did too. Activision had Battle.net, EA had Origin for a while, Ubisoft didn't make it mandatory, but they certainly want you to buy games from their client, and of course Epic Games Store. Despite all these contenders, the vast majority of PC gamers still use Steam to buy games. Activision and EA had to come back to Steam when they saw they couldn't get PC players to accept exclusivity in their launchers.

So yes, people can challenge Steam all they want. But Valve has convinced PC players to trust Steam the same way Apple has convinced iPhone owners to trust the Apple way.

The issue is trying to convince an entrenched base of users to do things differently. People generally don't want to, even if you can give them a logical reason why they should.

The issue is nobody was able to give even a non-logical reason why they should. That's why Microsoft Store, Origin, Ubiplay, Epic Games Store, etc. have all flamed out. Even venerable Battle.net is little more than a launcher for Call of Duty and Diablo these days. GOG has carved out a niche as a platform for old classic games and that works for them. Steam does everything better than every other PC store platform and always has, the other corporations only wanted to make gamers to use their own stores for their own selfish purposes (keep more money) and never figured out a single actual thing to give to gamers to make it worth their time to use the other stores.

Microsoft's problem has always been since day zero that they make and sell Xbox for their own selfish purposes (crush Sony and protect the Windows monopoly) and they have never actually figured out an actual thing to give to gamers to make it worth their time to own an Xbox instead of a Playstation or Nintendo machine.

 

[adamsapple]

 

[M1chl]

DOA

 

[Truespeed]

So I download an app store from an app store? Got it.

 

[SHA]

Haters gonna like it first, cause they give a shit, just saying.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Mibu still trying to make this a successful endeavor for MS? impressive.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

NeoGAF community note: Microsoft are currently the most valuable company in the world by market cap, above Apple in second place.

What does that have to do with mobile app markets and their market share?

 

[adamsapple]

So I download an app store from an app store? Got it.

Sounds like it's starting as a web-based store at first.

 

[StereoVsn]

You realize people can walk and chew gum at the same time right?

This is why they bought ABK. The games are already there. You think it's hard for Microsoft to set up a website? They already have a website for the Xbox store. All they need to do is create a section for mobile games and then upload the games to a server for download... They can literally do that in a few days.

What's more important is that tons of developers and publishers will flock to it because they're tired of Apple and Google's fees.

I agree 100%! I think the next steps should be to buy a mobile company, maybe like Nokia, and launch Windows Phone! It’s a can’t lose proposition.

I even know a man who could help them launch it.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

They already failed with the Windows Phone. They’ll fail again with their abandonware store.

Probably but the consumer is better off with more competition, the more the better.

 

[Kumomeme]

Too bad MIcrosoft doesn't have it's own phone like Apple or Google. Good Luck!!!

Xphone Series S/X incoming with Mobilegamepass

their PR gonna revolve around super-relatable-gamers-Uncle-Phil painting Apple and Google/Samsung as evil with promise after promise each year.

 

[Iced Arcade]

web-based store lol

 

[Banjo64]

What does that have to do with mobile app markets and their market share?

Only Microsoft are allowed to compete with every leading company in every sector, being the most valuable company in the world is not enough.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

What an absurd proposition. How can a web based game store even be classed as mobile? Microsoft done Phil'ed it up again!

 

[ArcaneNLSC]

The Xbox E3 (whatever the big June showcase will be called) show is going to be 🗑 if they go talking about mobile for the show. Shades of the classic 2013 Xbox shows [aka TV TV TV]

If they focus on mobile during the June show this could be a "don't you have mobile phones?" Diablo mobile 2.0 scenario

 

[Astray]

Lmfao so basically it's a glorified payment processor shift?

 

[Dick Jones]

If they focus on mobile during the June show this could be a "don't you have mobile phones?" Diablo mobile 2.0 scenario

The meme potential of a "mobile phone E3 show" will be explosive. Surely they ask the lad back to say the historic line.

 

[Fart Knight]

Another failed attempt

 

[Dick Jones]

They had me until trusted. MS... trusted?
L O Fucking L!

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Only Microsoft are allowed to compete with every leading company in every sector, being the most valuable company in the world is not enough.

I mean if that's what you think w.e but for consumers the more competition there is the better.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The Xbox E3 (whatever the big June showcase will be called) show is going to be 🗑 if they go talking about mobile for the show. Shades of the classic 2013 Xbox shows [aka TV TV TV]

they are not this dumb...they cant be....I refuse to believe it....but if it happens I wouldn't be surprised