GitarooMan
Member
Frankfurter said:
Television/Film is recorded at an insanely high resolution. Comparing it to games makes no sense.
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Television/Film is recorded at an insanely high resolution. Comparing it to games makes no sense.
NeonZ
Member
Huh... I think you've missed my point. When you're using those two systems in an SD set you won't see their full power, because they have need resources to output the HD resolution, and I believe no game will actually use those resources anywhere else if played on SD. If there were no HD resolution, those extra resources could be used in various things like AI, number of enemies, physics, etc... or, even, more detailed models and such.
However, those extra resources won't be avaliable because of HD, which, at least in the near future, won't even be used by most of the market.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
All I got to say about HDTV is that 6 years is a long time (considering that will be how long until the next generation). Within that time prices for HDTVs WILL plummet in price. There may not be alot of people with HDTVs now but the adoption rate will rise. By how much? who knows but all I know is that i've got a 27" Samsung HDTV in my room and a 55" RCA HDTV in my living room.
Thats bullshit and I hope that most Nintendo fans DON'T percieve High Definition taking away from these things. HD is from a pure visual standpoint, what your talking about is from a computational standpoint (Processors, which Xenon and Cell would handle). High Definition does not detract from those things....
Ummmm...theres a point where you cannot resolve a certain amount of detail in Standard Definition...thats the point of High Definition. So what you saying is that you'll be able to get more detailed models out of SD resolutions than High Definition resolutoins?...what?
NeonZ said:
Thats bullshit and I hope that most Nintendo fans DON'T percieve High Definition taking away from these things. HD is from a pure visual standpoint, what your talking about is from a computational standpoint (Processors, which Xenon and Cell would handle). High Definition does not detract from those things....
NeonX said:
Ummmm...theres a point where you cannot resolve a certain amount of detail in Standard Definition...thats the point of High Definition. So what you saying is that you'll be able to get more detailed models out of SD resolutions than High Definition resolutoins?...what?
meaning, as far as nintendo is concerned, so called 'non-games' work at every level. expanding the market, selling millions of copies and driving nintendo into higher and higher profits.Amir0x said:
imo this is all great news. i love the variety and quality nintendo's 'non-games' bring my gaming.
i'm also looking forward to more games that bridge the gap like animal crossing. nintendo's seen how much people love this kind of game so their internal teams are no doubt working on several new titles with this in mind. i expect this is the kind of game eguchi is currently working on for revolution.
GitarooMan
Member
NeonZ said:
This resources issue is overplayed, for how long have PC games run in high resolution and nobody was complaining about enemies, physics, etc. Modern video cards/tech can handle the hi-res w/o a huge hit.
Amir0x said:
Thankfully as there IMO isn't any compelling software for it.
This analogy is poor, since HD essentially is the giant screen and full surround sound. Only difference is you can take those movies and also watch it in the shitty cinema until you're ready
So you are telling me to pay full price and watch it on the shitty cinema? FU
Much like the other two in my case.
Blackcherry
Member
No way. the film you're(suposely) talking about is use by photo cameras and movie cameras but the resolution was compressed at a resolution that is even lower than the 480i ratio for the televison format.GitarooMan said:
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
I love how Nintendo fans, point to expansion of the market and whatnot. What does that have to do with your enjoyment of games? Does a Non-Game somehow make you enjoy it better since its expanding the market? Its like their trying to come up with a counterpoint for Nintendo making those type of games. Its also like Nintendo and their most rabid core fans are attached at the hip and sales actually effect their enjoyment of certain games.
Monk said:
Compelling software for PS3 and 360, you mean? Well, I don't know how you decided the Revolution is your ticket then! :lol
Monk said:
No, because like I just said you can wait for a pricedrop or alternatively buy now and wait until HDTVs are in your price range. In both scenarios, you can see that beautiful game in SD (note: in terms of pure visual output, too, it will still likely look much better than Revo games in this), and then when you're ready you can get the benefit of HD. It's a choice. And only one that's good.
PkunkFury
Member
BlueTsunami said:
Stuff like pixel shaders and per pixel lighting obviously take more resources on a display outputted at a higher res, so that's not true. I think what he is also saying is that HDGames will require more detailed textures and models in order to take advantage of the higher res on HD systems. Of course these points are moot because 360 and PS3 are way more powerful then the rev, so they can handle the increased copmutation necessary for HD, but it is worth mentioning that if you wanted to output HD with rev level tech, it would put more of a drain on the system then SD.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
elostyle said:
Not you specifically (or maybe you fit the criteria, I don't know) but i've seen alot of counterarguments for Nintendo Non-Games to be that their good because their expanding the market. Its good that Nintendo is trying to get everyone in on the fun but theres going to be a point where their going to try to please the non core fans with these annoying Non-Games because it makes them the most money.
I say this because Nintendos fanbase is going to be dilluted with Non-Gamers that enjoy these games. If this ever happens on a large scale, I know i'll be staying away from Nintendo products. Nintendo fans seems to embracing this.
Archie said:
Hopefully this is the case. I've expressed my excitement for the Revolution and my conviction to get a Blue Enamel DS Lite. So i'm not just hating on Nintendo to hate on Nintendo. I'm honestly worried that Nintendo WILL start pandering to Non-Gamers to come out with the most profitability. Hell, its great if Nintendo is doing good but I can see games that appease me coming out less frequently with non-games coming out more frequently.
The Friendly Monster
Member
Amir0x said:
I'd have thought so too but you don't seem to grasp it. If a PS3 game was simultaneously developed for HDTV and SDTV with equal budgets and the same power of the console used then the SDTV version would look better on an SDTV. HDTV does not benefit those without an SDTV it detracts, only very slightly in this regard, granted some XBOX360 games still look excellent on an SDTV. You need to look at things from a cost perspective though. The cost to develop HD games on the whole is going to be more, this is going to either mean fewer games, online distribution, or perhaps those SDTV users are going to be paying more for their games? We've already seen it with 360. Even if the prices don't go up SDTV owners are paying for hi-res textures they aren't using.
It is ridiculous to say that HDTV is better so Nintendo are wrong not to adopt it. If 360 had 2 gig of RAM it'd be objectively better, but it'd cost money. If HDTV were so blatantly the right way to go for Nintendo and their customers, if it was free in terms of cost to customers (not talking about buying a set here), developers and Nintendo, the hardware manufacturers, then Nintendo would have added it.
BlueTsunami said:
Heh, a lot of Nintendo fans (as well as non-gamers, of course) legitimately like those products. I don't understand how, but I don't think it's some hidden agenda. I think they really love it. Of course it'll be interesting when the genre continues to become flooded, 'cause then we can stop calling them 'innovative' and call it what it is
obviously, yes.BlueTsunami said:
because, since i enjoy these games that are expanding the market and therefore adding more consumers to buy more non-games, more of these games are made, therefore my enjoyment increases.
it's just the same as if a game you like sells well, it means a sequel or more games in that style will be made.
simple.
Blackcherry
Member
Most nbots are defending themselfs from anti-nintendos that keep saying "Nintendo is going 3rd party" and since they are Nintendo whore, where nintendo go they follow. My friend, remember, in a point of your life you were a non-gamer and some videogames suited you're style and taste. that got you hooked so much that you are here now, in a gaming forum. Nintendo think they can attract different group of people with their new interface which is more natural than the gamepad one. Non-game? please, they ARE game. It just dosen't suit most of usBlueTsunami said:
Jonnyram said:
That's also my problem: since November I have seen a LOT of HDTV, both Plasma and LCD. But I have decided to keep my Sony CRT for many motivations:
1) CRT is a "mature" technology: sure, stable, affordable, with a good lifespan, it has a very good brightness and brilliance.
2) For me, the market is not ready for HDTV, at least, not in Switzerland, where I live. The Signal of TV Senders is still analog, electronic devices are not ready to support High Definition (and in fact, the DVD offers only a 480p Resolution for now), and many many people have still a old TV based on Electrons Flux- Technology. We must wait still many years for a majority of people with a HD TV.
3) It is not at all cheap: 2000 CHF (1300 Euros) is the minimum for a good HD-TV (example: Philips 32'' 5320 PF is at 2000 CHF since December).
4) There's no warantly on LCD of Plasma TV: in Switzerland, there's only 1, maximum 2 years of Warrantly, and this is scandalous for a expensive device.
But it is the proof that even the constructors and the revendors are not sure of LCD- or Plasma-based TV: that's because it is a new technology and ALMOST NODOBY has experience about it: so they keep the Warrantly low.
For now, I prefer to wait how the market will evolve, because I wanna not risk my money on something that is very uncertain.
soul creator
Member
but...MS does give you a choice.
Core system at the same launch price as the past two market leaders ($299.99) ftw?
Core system at the same launch price as the past two market leaders ($299.99) ftw?
PkunkFury
Member
Amir0x said:
I don't have an HDTV now and I'm not going to waste my time replaying a game I played in SD just so I can see it in HD 3 years later...
Not that I agree the Rev doesn't need to support HD, but I think you are going overboard insisting everybody should have an HD console. Those people who really won't be picking up an HDTV in the next 4 years have no need to pay higher prices for games that use it. I know I won't be getting an HDTV until I'm out of school, so I'm taking the price drop road you mentioned for the PS3. Having an SD system until that point isn't a bad thing at all, but if a new Rev doesn't come out in 4 years when HDTV adoption becomes the norm, I think I will be disappointed
I see your concern, but I don't think Nintendo is going to totally abandon their core audience who gobbles up every piece of software they produce.BlueTsunami said:
I really have no interest in Nintendogs and Animal Crossing. I bought both games, but sold them pretty soon afterwards, but Brain Age has piqued my curiosity. It looks fun enough and I want to see if it will make me think faster for school purposes.
I don't know. At first I thought, sure if HDs become more common then I'd want HD consoles.
Then I looked back at online gaming and consoles, and realized a changing situation hasn't changed me. Before last gen, I didn't have broadband and I didn't play games online, so online gaming meant nothing to me. Now I have broadband and I play PC online games, but console online gaming still doesn't interest me. It just became a problem of companies throwing in online as a feature, but really doing nothing new with it. Also, console multiplayer games work better for me in person it turns out.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
etiolate said:
Well, in all honesty, High Definition is mainly for projectors and large TV (bigscreens). What I like about HDTV and why its important to me is that. Sure a game will look good on a small TV but when the Rev comes out and the PS3 (or use an Xbox360) comes out compare and contrast the games on a larger TV (35"+). You WILL see a dramatic difference (in clarity and sharpness).
27" seems to be the base limit to see a difference in fidelity. All in all though, since I play games on a bigscreen TV, HDTV is important for me because I get the best image quality from the games i'm playing. Which makes the overall experience better (for me)
Magicpaint
Member
Monorojo said:
Nintendo makes money, we gain by knowing we'll get more of Nintendo games and systems. That wasn't hard was it?
But I guess it's a concept that's not very easy to grasp when you're a Sony damage control special officer.
Some of these responses are just plain idiotic. You guys are thinking stricly as gamers, "why don't they release high tech stuff", "why don't they embrace HDTV" etc. Nintendo, is a company, and as such, they just want your money. By having hardware that costs less to make, they're making massive profits. As long as people keep buying DSes and (soon) the Rev, they will make money.
I can understand the complaints about inferior hardware especially since I like Nintendo games and yet, I'm stuck playing on old tech. However, to Nintendo's benefit they have introduced interesting new ways to play which Sony (save Eyetoy) and Microsoft have yet to do. The touchscreen on the DS was brilliant and the revolution's controller looks very promissing.
I think Nintendo's business model is perfect. They make shit loads of money by releasing inferior hardware and we get new gameplay thanks to the touchscreen/revmote. Of course, we all wish Nintendo invested more into tech however, as microsoft and sony have shown, pushing for the highest possible specs is not profitable. Nintendo has a win/win situation and that's why they haven't went the way of Sega yet and probably never will.
If Nintendo continued simply releasing better specs they would have gone nowhere (see Gamecube).
I can understand the complaints about inferior hardware especially since I like Nintendo games and yet, I'm stuck playing on old tech. However, to Nintendo's benefit they have introduced interesting new ways to play which Sony (save Eyetoy) and Microsoft have yet to do. The touchscreen on the DS was brilliant and the revolution's controller looks very promissing.
I think Nintendo's business model is perfect. They make shit loads of money by releasing inferior hardware and we get new gameplay thanks to the touchscreen/revmote. Of course, we all wish Nintendo invested more into tech however, as microsoft and sony have shown, pushing for the highest possible specs is not profitable. Nintendo has a win/win situation and that's why they haven't went the way of Sega yet and probably never will.
If Nintendo continued simply releasing better specs they would have gone nowhere (see Gamecube).
but what makes you think this? what has nintendo done to suggest they will not be making more zeldas, marios, metroids, etc?BlueTsunami said:
from their actions and what they've been saying the more traditional games will be 'bigger masterpieces than ever before', according to iwata at gdc.
pikmin 2, paper mario 2, fire emblem path of radiance, kirby cc, advance wars ds and mario kart ds were all amazing games that sold great or at least well enough for sequels to be made and these genres of games to continue.
twilight princess will have been in development for at least 4 years! and everything nintendo has said about the game pertains to it being the best zelda ever made.
i'd understand all the caution about non-games being nintendo's sole direction if there was any evidence to support this. it's not like when they said they were going to make shorter games with less development time, but more of them. something that worried me, justly, as the result was stuff i didn't enjoy, like luigi's mansion, waverace bs, mario sunshine, wind waker, etc.
as far as i'm concerned, from nintendo's actions and playing their recent games, nintendo's direction is brilliant in every way. if anything it's beneficial to the current market on nintendo consoles because there looks like there's a small percentage of non-gamers who are trying more traditional games like mario kart. it's already sold more than the last two versions in japan.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
oops nm
GitarooMan
Member
Obviously their business model is good, the question is what kind of value is Nintendo passing on to consumers. They're making all this money and consumers are getting cheap hardware. Plenty of Nintendo games are fun, but I think it's perfectly fine to criticize them for not investing more for consumers' benefit, I'm not a stockholder there or anything.
AndoCalrissian
Member
I think you forgot Game Boy in your percentage there.Striek said:
Just for curiosity, do you have fun with this? (don´t look me like that, don´t want to ruin your game, but even after all years in GAF is pretty amazing).
A company makes money, big deal. That just mean that Nintendo will have a good position to offer more good games in the future. That is the only thing I get from this.
A company makes money, big deal. That just mean that Nintendo will have a good position to offer more good games in the future. That is the only thing I get from this.
SantaC
Member
ioi said:
baiscly the cycle is like this:
"haha Nintendo wont make money on a console/handheld like that!" > Nintendo made money > "Their games are fun but not enough tech invested" > Nintendo invests in several techs like the controller > "But it's not graphics! They should go third party!"
I know I know, I've been here long enough myself.
I just thought maybe people would have gotten tired of this by now. I start a lot of PSP / DS topics but even I'm sick of it now !!
People get too personal about it all.
We know what all the arguments are. We know PSP is more expensive. We know amirox doesn't like the DS, we know most people just sit here and wind each other up, we know that "non-games" aren't gonna replace "normal-games", we know things are different in the East and West, we know all this, we know third parties generally (EA etc) sell better on PSP, we know first parties sell better on DS, we know neither have done particularly well in the US/Europe, we know they both have a future, we know they appeal to different markets. We've been over it hundreds of times. I wouldn't mind if it was new people, but it's the same old faces !
I just thought maybe people would have gotten tired of this by now. I start a lot of PSP / DS topics but even I'm sick of it now !!
People get too personal about it all.
We know what all the arguments are. We know PSP is more expensive. We know amirox doesn't like the DS, we know most people just sit here and wind each other up, we know that "non-games" aren't gonna replace "normal-games", we know things are different in the East and West, we know all this, we know third parties generally (EA etc) sell better on PSP, we know first parties sell better on DS, we know neither have done particularly well in the US/Europe, we know they both have a future, we know they appeal to different markets. We've been over it hundreds of times. I wouldn't mind if it was new people, but it's the same old faces !
GitarooMan
Member
SantaCruZer said:
Nah, more like
Quasi-critical statement on Nintendo -> Nintendo made money x1000 -> WTF does that have to do w/ anything -> They'll still be making great games that I love -> But they could be better -> Gameplay 4ever, DS.
I'll freely admit I get caught up in this cycle too, just hard to resist.
Monorojo said:
"Net income climbed 8.7 percent to 95 billion yen ($808 million) in the year ending March 31, the company said in a preliminary earnings statement. That compares with its earlier forecast that profit would drop 14 percent to 75 billion yen. The Kyoto-based company booked a 45 billion yen gain because the yen fell against the dollar, spokesman Yasuhiro Minagawa said."
"Full-year revenue fell 3 percent to about 500 billion yen, in line with the company's earlier estimate, today's statement showed. Operating profit, or sales minus the cost of goods sold and administrative expenses, fell 19 percent to about 90 billion yen, the report showed."
almost half their profits came from currency gains, their core business is actually not doing that well cause their revenues fell 3% and their margins shrank 19% probably because of the DS
KingOfF00LS
Member
If developing for HD causes a significantly larger portion of the development budget to get diverted to the graphics rather than the meat of the game then HD support is a bad thing for me.
If developing for HD causes new games to retail for $60 where they would otherwise retail new for $40 then HD support is a bad thing for me.
Other than that, having HD is good as far as I can see, but having HD is definitely not always necessarily good by definition.
If developing for HD causes new games to retail for $60 where they would otherwise retail new for $40 then HD support is a bad thing for me.
Other than that, having HD is good as far as I can see, but having HD is definitely not always necessarily good by definition.
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