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[MercuryLS]

But "cocky" Sony brought us the PS2.

You could argue that Sony shit the bed with online for that console and wouldn't have gotten their act together if it wasn't for XBL. It's not so black and white. It's good to have Sony and MS pushing each other, I don't personally believe they need to have parity or close to parity in sales for that to matter.

 

[Dysun]

Take a shot if you guessed Geoff would yell Titanfall with enthusiasm within the first 2 minutes

 

[gundamkyoukai]

It's never been a proven driving force in hardware sales.

People often cite that piece of trivia, the most powerful system has never won, and it's true, obviously it's going to win this time, but I'd doubt it's because of performance.

But you also have to remember you could never get the better performing system at a cheaper at the same time.
If you look back certain factors were always against the more powerful console not this time .
I think it becomes a bigger factor when the competition system cost more in a certain time fame .

 

[Hoo-doo]

Shouldn't they be buying PCs then, if they care about performance? I really believe Sony's early lead is mostly due do Microsoft's disastrous DRMgate days.

This idea keeps being silly and ridiculous every time it gets brought up. And it still gets brought up a lot.

 

[Chobel]

Shouldn't they be buying PCs then, if they care about performance? I really believe Sony's early lead is mostly due do Microsoft's disastrous DRMgate days.

This false dilemma (strawman?) argument really needs to stop. You can still care about performance and have a console.

 

[Xater]

Pachter is spot on with the Kinect portion.

though I don't agree with the price cut statements.

Yup, but I hope for MS that they are smart enough to drop Kinect quicker than he anticipates.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

What I hate the most about this is, before this whole gen even started.... The entire media had counted on the Xbox being 100% better, no questions asked. All of a sudden now it's on life support? This just goes to show the bias they pretty much all had ahead of time and now eating the crow they dished out.

 

[DieH@rd]

Interesting that Pachter claims 38% of Xbox owners are on Live Gold.

He was talking about Xbox 360 numbers. 30mil subscribers out of 80 mil install base. That ratio of subscribers was mentioned constantly over the last 3 years.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Yup, but I hope for MS that they are smart enough to drop Kinect quicker than he anticipates.

Non-Kinect 2tb xbox one for $374.99 would see a good boost of sales for the holidays imo.

 

[Tsundere]

Non-Kinect 2tb xbox one for $374.99 would see a good boost of sales for the holidays imo.

That 2tb mention made me chuckle quite a bit inside.

 

[I-hate-u]

Poor Garnett, didn't have a chance to speak very much.

 

[hawk2025]

By far the largest problem that Microsoft is facing right now is the perception that they are failing -- regardless of the actual numbers.

If March doesn't bring a HUGE win, this narrative will not change, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[rokkerkory]

Interesting... was there this much doom and gloom for Wii U 4 months into its life? Serious question.

Pretty sure MS will have to do something with price soon than later this year.

 

[Unknown One]

This false dilemma argument really needs to stop. You can still care about performance and have a console.

Exactly, I have a gaming PC and a PS4. There games that I buy for the PS4 because that's where I want to play them, but I do care about the performance. It's not black and white as people make it out to be. Choices can be skewed towards one platform due to controls, friends, online, and etc.

 

[Mrbob]

I have serious doubts about indie developers being excited to work with Kinect.

Somehow they also forgot that Titanfall is also coming to the PC.

Yeah I thought it was funny they forgot about PC TitanFall.

A lot of media types underestimate the PC community though so it isn't a surprise.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

That seems low, no?

Xbox, as in all Xbox consoles including the 360 and the 'bone?

Because that sounds quite low. Would Pachter even be privy to these numbers?

That doesn't seem low in the slightest. If anything, it seems higher than I would expect. XBL gained a lot of traction on 360, because nobody was paying for it on the first Xbox, not even in percentage terms.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

He's not seen any promotions for Infamous? Seriously?

 

[mechphree]

Xbone will be fine. Remember PS3 launch with its issues. I think in a couple months they will get more momentum and bounce back. I doubt they will just flounder.

 

[Unknown One]

What I hate the most about this is, before this whole gen even started.... The entire media had counted on the Xbox being 100% better, no questions asked. All of a sudden now it's on life support? This just goes to show the bias they pretty much all had ahead of time and now eating the crow they dished out.

Watching the video and they still brings that up a lot as if it was some kind of fact.

 

[meanspartan]

This is a really interesting comment - I agree. One of the huge differences this time around is that we've seen an absolute explosion in the availability of online information. I don't remember anything like the utterly obsessive scrutiny of the hardware/software that we're currently seeing on things like Digital Foundry during the early years of last gen. I wonder if there's been some kind of explosion in 'enthusiast' gaming - there seems to be a lot more people who aren't simply passively reading reviews, and instead, are actively engaged in analysing system performance. Even if they don't necessarily understand the technology, they know that these debates go on, and want to be involved in them.

As far as I've seen, neither Sony nor Microsoft effectively prepared for this level of scrutiny. I don't think that they anticipated that the kind of rigorous community analysis that has traditionally been the domain of PC enthusiasts has gone 'mainstream', and that they can't whitewash the deficits of their hardware through advertising.

I don't actually think the average consumer goes and reads digital foundry- but the hardcore do. And core gamers as a group, though still the overall minority, are much larger a total group than they were 20 years ago. So when they find out that the Xbox One is objectively, inarguably, a weaker machine, you can bet all their more casual gamer friends know it too.

The reason they CAN find out and spread the word though is thanks to stuff like Digital Foundry. Whereas 20 years ago, it was much harder to "prove" that Genesis was weaker at least for the first couple years.

 

[DieH@rd]

He's not seen any promotions for Infamous? Seriously?

Well he saw them, but MS is spending gazilions on Titanfall. I dont think that Sony did a bad job with Infamous.

 

[Xater]

Interesting... was there this much doom and gloom for Wii U 4 months into its life? Serious question.

Yes.

 

[StuBurns]

Non-Kinect 2tb xbox one for $374.99 would see a good boost of sales for the holidays imo.

I'm very anti-Kinect, it doesn't work, and it's a waste of money, and I don't really trust it... However, it is what separates the XBO from the PS4. Why buy an XBO over a PS4 without a Kinect? It's just the same thing, with worse hardware and a worse online subscription deal.

MS are right to keep it I think, as painful as that is to admit.

 

[Sheroking]

You could argue that Sony shit the bed with online for that console and wouldn't have gotten their act together if it wasn't for XBL. It's not so black and white. It's good to have Sony and MS pushing each other, I don't personally believe they need to have parity or close to parity in sales for that to matter.

I don't think you need to make an argument.

It's pretty clear that a far more humble and forward thinking Microsoft ate Sony's lunch in the early days of PS3 and Xbox 360 in part because Sony was so ridiculously arrogant from their PS2 success.

What has happened in the last few years? Microsoft got arrogant and pushed the market away from gamers and Sony got their shit together. The cycle continues. Competition is important to check these companies and it ultimately improves them.

 

[Yawnier]

Interesting... was there this much doom and gloom for Wii U 4 months into its life? Serious question.

Pretty sure MS will have to do something with price soon than later this year.

Yep, once we got NPD numbers at this time last year + software drought (remember the Rayman Legends delay?)

 

[Calabi]

If Titanfall doesnt move a lot of Xbox Ones, clouds are going to fall, people are going to cry. Xbox One selling 500,000 because of a little non exclusive multiplayer game, I just dont buy(believe) it.

 

[Into]

What I hate the most about this is, before this whole gen even started.... The entire media had counted on the Xbox being 100% better, no questions asked. All of a sudden now it's on life support? This just goes to show the bias they pretty much all had ahead of time and now eating the crow they dished out.

Some parts of the media told the "Xbox 360 is the leader" lie for so long, they started to believe it to be true. Tell a lie long enough and you start to believe it.

Its about the extremes when you want to grab peoples attention:

What grabs attention is unadulterated success, leader, first place, BEST, so they plastered this about the Xbox 360 when it was unwarranted and factually untrue

What also grabs attention is failure, decline, death, demise, so they are now plastering this about the Xbox One, when it also is unwarranted as of this point.

 

[Xater]

I'm very anti-Kinect, it doesn't work, and it's a waste of money, and I don't really trust it... However, it is what separates the XBO from the PS4. Why buy an XBO over a PS4 without a Kinect? It's just the same thing, with worse hardware and a worse online subscription deal.

MS are right to keep it I think, as painful as that is to admit.

Dropping it is a way to faster drop the price. If you want to drop it fast without much loss getting rid of it is the only logical option.

 

[MutonCommander]

Exactly, I have a gaming PC and a PS4. There games that I buy for the PS4 because that's where I want to play them, but I do care about the performance. It's not black and white as people make it out to be. Choices can be skewed towards one platform due to controls, friends, online, and etc.

Sure, but I think performance is very low on that list for the average console buyer. I think people are buying PS4s because it's much cheaper than the Xbox1 and because of the whole DRM thing. I don't think they even know or care about the number of pixels displayed on their screen.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

I'm very anti-Kinect, it doesn't work, and it's a waste of money, and I don't really trust it... However, it is what separates the XBO from the PS4. Why buy an XBO over a PS4 without a Kinect? It's just the same thing, with worse hardware and a worse online subscription deal.

MS are right to keep it I think, as painful as that is to admit.

A little thing called games?

While the xb1 isn't as powerful as the ps4 and it's pretty damn stupid that games aren't standard 1080p in 2014, doesn't mean the games will suck.

 

[Glorified G]

"TitanFall is a gift for Microsoft, they have this exclusively and not just a windowed exclusive, it's only coming to Xbox One"

Where is Joel McHale when you need him?

 

[Steroyd]

Xbox is better for the consumer when they r in 2nd place. History doesn't lie. When they're n the lead, KINECT, DRM, TV, casual bullshit. When they feels the need to catch up, we get games... Good games

The funny thing is that the Xbox 360 wasn't in lead to begin with, heck it's only just caught up to the Wii's US sales after the Wii sales fell off a cliff years ago, and they still tried to pull that crap.

It'd be more accurate to say that MS are at their best when they're selling 30 million console's for a generation instead of 80 million.

 

[Jtrizzy]

That seems low, no?

Xbox, as in all Xbox consoles including the 360 and the 'bone?

Because that sounds quite low. Would Pachter even be privy to these numbers?

Hmm I'd have to go back and listen to it again. He even threw a number out I think. It's during the first segment. I just thought it was interesting because it defeats this whole notion of "well the paywall doesn't matter for apps", and DRM check ins would've been anything other than an unmitigated disaster on a console.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Dreamcast was quick out the gate too. Nobody is saying 3.4 million is a "slow" start, but the trend matters. And the trend seems to be that the vast majority of those 3.4 million were sold in the first month and since then it's been slow going.

I understand that, but i still dont think we can stay the Xbox is struggling relevative to average console trends. The fact is, the PS4 is beasting, not the xbox one is selling badly.

 

[Jabba]

Gaming needs Xbox One to do good for Sony to not get cocky again next gen

The PS4 is a direct result of that cockiness backfiring on Sony. The thing that's really different imo with Sony, is they're really bloodthirsty this gen or truly focused, whatever you want to call it. I don't know what you would call it.

Sony is very, very, different action/narrative/competitive wise. Microsoft definitely has it's work cut out for them.
It's going to be tough but not impossible for them competing with the Sony of today than 2006-7. Not saying they can't/won't compete, they will. It's just going to be tough on them.

 

[Unknown One]

Sure, but I think performance is very low on that list for the average console buyer. I think people are buying PS4s because it's much cheaper than the Xbox1 and because of the whole DRM thing. I don't think they even know or care about the number of pixels displayed on their screen.

That's the thing. Opinions are not facts. Until there is some sort of global poll to see if it matters, it's just an opinion.

We can't really speak for the average user. It's like me choosing somebody's opinion for them. It doesn't work like that.

 

[StuBurns]

Dropping it is a way to faster drop the price. If you want to drop it fast without much loss getting rid of it is the only logical option.

It comes down to what does MS care more about? I believe they're doing it to transition to a universal living room computing interface, and they shouldn't care about securing a decent second place in a console war. Console gaming is worthless to MS, it's a PR mess, and it's not keeping shareholders in frappuccinos. MS want to secure the living room PC, and they're planning to do it with Kinect. It's much more important than how they perform against PS4.

 

[Marco1]

Sony are banking on PS4 to do well but MS have just started a new CEO and who knows what his plans are? It would be interesting to see where MS want to go in the future and if the xbox is a part of that.
Personally I wouldn't see it as a big loss, I see the xbox brand right now as being in limbo.

 

[BY2K]

But "cocky" Sony brought us the PS2.

I'm so glad we don't have sale numbers at E3 anymore...

I just hope Sony doesn't start that again this year, with how well the PS4 is selling.

 

[blazeuk]

People need to remember that the PS4 doing extremely well does not mean the XB1 is automatically doing terrible, MS will likely lose market share to Sony this gen but it's unlikely they'll lose such a huge chunk of it to warrant such doomed calls already especially with Nintendo's market share also up for grabs given how awful they've been so far.

It's still very early to call anything and 2 out of the 3 big console manufacturers having problems doesn't exactly scream good news for gamers.

 

[rokkerkory]

Garnet has a good point about leveraging indies for Kinect. But not sure MS is smart enough to do this.

 

[Xater]

It comes down to what does MS care more about? I believe they're doing it to transition to a universal living room computing interface, and they shouldn't care about securing a decent second place in a console war. Console gaming is worthless to MS, it's a PR mess, and it's not keeping shareholders in frappuccinos. MS want to secure the living room PC, and they're planning to do it with Kinect. It's much more important than how they perform against PS4.

Well I don't think Kinect is the way to do it and I don't know if MS truly still believes that.

 

[Appollowexx]

Time was never "in" for Xbox One.

It was never, ever, under any circumstance going to be WW leader in console sales. The brand is simply too catered and rooted for the American market to be a legitimate WW player.

If one was to drastically change the brand to actually be able to compete WW, it would cease to be the very console that Xbox fans love and enjoy.

Titanfall fits perfectly, its a competitive online shooter with gritty graphics. The game at times look like Michael Bay's turd of a trilogy called Transformers. The next big games to carry the console will be Halo, and possibly Gears, more of the same, for the same market, for the same demographic.

It will somewhat work in US and slightly less in Europe, but thats it, they are not leading anything, ever. Unless they completely re brand the whole thing, and they wont.

Haha this made me laugh. You sound really angry. But I agree with what your are saying for the most part. I can see Xbox reclaiming America after a fashion if they play their cards right, but worldwide… highly unlikely as even the PS3 pulled ahead with a year less on market.

 

[Into]

Haha this made me laugh. You sound really angry. But I agree with what your are saying for the most part. I can see Xbox reclaiming America after a fashion if they play their cards right but worldwide… highly unlikely as even the PS3 pulled ahead with a year less on market.

I am livid! =P

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

People need to remember that the PS4 doing extremely well does not mean the XB1 is automatically doing terrible, MS will likely lose market share to Sony this gen but it's unlikely they'll lose such a huge chunk of it to warrant such doomed calls already especially with Nintendo's market share also up for grabs given how awful they've been so far.

It's still very early to call anything and 2 out of the 3 big console manufacturers having problems doesn't exactly scream good news for gamers.

Nintendo's market share doesn't really have that much to do with the PS4/XB1 market.

If anything it's going to work out like last gen, with people having a WiiU if they want to play Zelda or SSB and picking either a PS4/XB1 for their main catalog.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Gaming needs Xbox One to do good for Sony to not get cocky again next gen

I honestly wonder if some people's reckoning of gaming history only started with the Xbox or something. Nintendo and Sega existed before Sony, Sony and Nintendo existed before Microsoft. MS could discontinue the Bone and liquidate their gaming assets tomorrow and no one would notice, because gaming existed before MS and it certainly will continue to exist after MS.

 

[DieH@rd]

If Titanfall doesnt move a lot of Xbox Ones, clouds are going to fall, people are going to cry. Xbox One selling 500,000 because of a little non exclusive multiplayer game, I just dont buy(believe) it.

He talked about 500k boost worldwide, which will give MS chance to equal Sony at least little in USA. Although I doubt that it will move needle by much.

February will be victory for Sony, and in in March PS4vsXbone sales will be closer than expected [IMO].

 

[StuBurns]

Well I don't think Kinect is the way to do it and I don't know if MS truly still believes that.

Well, it certainly won't work, tablet interfaces for home theater boxes are going to dominate living room computing, and if MS do think that too, I'd say it makes sense to drop Kinect, but it's also been clear for long enough that they should have never bundled Kinect.

 

[bigboss370]

What is going on lol, i'm not through the whole episode but pachter already saying x1 was supply constrained in january, keighley saying titanfall is only on x1....

And the ps3.. cell

and look at all the great games we got on it

seriously, cocky sony ended 7 years ago guys.

 

[mrklaw]

Haven't watched the video yet, but I've been getting the feeling the games media thinks the ps4 lead is a fluke and expects it to go away with the introduction of TitanFall. Kyle Bosman has been the only person I heard acknowledge this isn't a fluke.

Xbox is better for the consumer when they r in 2nd place. History doesn't lie. When they're n the lead, KINECT, DRM, TV, casual bullshit. When they feels the need to catch up, we get games... Good games

That final bosman was great and really seems to fit.

I'm fine with some media being opinion rather than fact reporting, but it is getting a bit bloody silly now. If PS4 continues to sell like this, some websites risk alienating the majority of their audience through ignorance