Fabieter
Member
Well I can agree with that since all iam saying is nintendo wont eat the cost for the hardware that is rumored.
What makes the difference smaller is the fact that diminishing returns are kicking hard.
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Can consoles not go with Nvidia for some reason?
- Thread starter jorgejjvr
- Start date
Well I can agree with that since all iam saying is nintendo wont eat the cost for the hardware that is rumored.
What makes the difference smaller is the fact that diminishing returns are kicking hard.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
There should be an award for the dumbest post of a thread.
Fabieter
Member
Yea nivida would easily make sony and Microsoft an offer if they asked.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Backwards compatibility is the issue. ARM and x86-64 are two different computing architectures. They have different ISAs, different microcode. You can technically emulate x86-64 on ARM (and vice-versa); the problem is in the case of x86-64 emulation on ARM, you would need so much computational overhead to get good performance that the low-cost and power-efficiency advantages of ARM are nullified.
Sony and Microsoft don't want to face a scenario of a truly hard reset, where users wouldn't be able to take their game libraries from 8th gen and 9th gen towards a 10th-gen console. The backlash they'd face would be legendary. Meanwhile, the sheer engineering work and money that'd be required to enable compatibility of x86-64 software on ARM-based consoles would be gargantuan. To get compatibility for platforms like PS5 and Series X on ARM, probably impossible within a reasonable R&D budget, because that budget would also have to be shared with actually engineering and architecting the new consoles themselves.
And this is the real reason why at least Sony would stick with AMD. They love customizing the hardware, it's in their engineering DNA, and Nvidia are pretty much 100% against doing customizations or allowing for customizations with clients, at least to the extend AMD do.
A PS5 with an Nvidia GPU would not have had cache scrubbers, and probably had big parts of the data I/O subsystem altered because some of that is reliant on APU customizations (which they wouldn't get with Nvidia).
Tams
Member
Lol, you think Nvidia are going to design a whole SoC just for Nintendo?
It'll be a tweaked Tegra that they already have on the market (and yet again, no B2C company has bought).
Woopah
Member
The T239 is being produced for Nintendo and is a customised version of Orin. We know this from the documents stolen directly from Nvidia.
Tams
Member
Woopah
Member
Exactly, it's right their in Nvidia's own files. So I'm not sure why you doubt it.
Tams
Member
I don't.
It's the Orin part. That is, as I said, just a tweaked existing product (that not one single B2C customer has bought as far as I know). That's not extensive customisation.
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Woopah
Member
Then I'm not sure where we disagree. T239 is a customised version of Orin for Nintendo so Nvidia is doing customisation work.
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Tams
Member
And my point is Nvidia's customisation is pretty much clock tweaks and thermal limits. Aka Fuck all.
Hudo
Member
George W. Bush forbade Microsoft and Sony from ever working with Nvidia again. I am not at liberty to discuss details since most of it is still classified. But what I can tell you is that Bill Clinton, 3dfx and a Usenet group called "French Fries Are Toast" are involved. And it was a plot that had been originally set in motion in Cuba by Fidel Castro because he once got the wrong order of cigars and he blamed AT&T for it...
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
Everyone here mentioning the time Nvidia screwed MS and Sony, but they actually screwed Nintendo as well. The 3DS was supposed to have a lot of modern features, but when Nintendo got the design, they saw was all over promised, and ditched Nvidia last minute to use another chip manufacturer (that's is probably why it was so expensive at launch).
Nvidia CEO declared some level of dispise over working with consoles, even dispised switch when it was coming to market. It's clear they ate not focused in this business, specially now their AI business blow up. So I'm really curious about how much effort Nvidia is putting over the supposed next Nintendo console SoC.
Nvidia CEO declared some level of dispise over working with consoles, even dispised switch when it was coming to market. It's clear they ate not focused in this business, specially now their AI business blow up. So I'm really curious about how much effort Nvidia is putting over the supposed next Nintendo console SoC.
Woopah
Member
The X1 in Switch didn't have much customisation apart from the clock speed. Whereas the T239 is more customised, such as having a different number of CPU/GPU cores.
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marquimvfs
Member
In reality, they're the creators of the X86-64 architecture. Without them, we probably would be tied to shitty Intel Itanium.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Yeah, it's going to be AppleAmd provides cpu, gpu, sound , and io . They are just cheaper and cover everything.
Buuuuttttt….
I do think that in next 2 or 3 gens when everything switches to full ray tracing things could change and it may be someone completely different than amd or nvidia.
Loxus
Member
The T239 is actually full Ampere.
T234 = Orin
T239 = Drake? / Switch 2 = Custom Orin
This may mean, no frame generation on Switch 2.
IMO, I think this is pretty much Switch 2 full specs. Could be wrong though.
A custom Jetson Orin NX 16GB (ONX 16GB)
Ampere GPU - 1028 Cores - 1.88TF / 32 Tensor Cores
ARM Cortex-A78AE - 8-Core CPU
16 GB LPDDR5 - 12 GB for games
Windom Earle
Member
Sony will return to Nvidia with PS6 for massive RT performance.
One can dream. Fuck these boring identical cut down PCs from MS and Sony.
One can dream. Fuck these boring identical cut down PCs from MS and Sony.
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Woopah
Member
The T239 is actually full Ampere.
T234 = Orin
T239 = Drake? / Switch 2 = Custom Orin
This may mean, no frame generation on Switch 2.
IMO, I think this is pretty much Switch 2 full specs. Could be wrong though.
A custom Jetson Orin NX 16GB (ONX 16GB)
Ampere GPU - 1028 Cores - 1.88TF / 32 Tensor Cores
ARM Cortex-A78AE - 8-Core CPU
16 GB LPDDR5 - 12 GB for games
Thanks! It will be pretty similar but I believe the Switch 2 GPU has 1536 Cores.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Someone turn this into a video game and give him a $250 million budget.
Game of the Century. Easy.
FullMetalx117
Member
Nvidia has way more lucrative things to focus on versus console gaming at the moment. It’s a nice side piece lower margin add on (like Nintendo) but not the value driver
tusharngf
Member
they got $20 SOC deal from nvidia. Its profitable comparing the cost of items inside the switch box.
Hudo
Member
And in best crowdfunding tradition, I won't finish it!
Fabieter
Member
Ofc they do but that dont change anything.
alucard0712_rus
Member
Companies always experimenting with different hardware, it's normal process.
Woopah
Member
Right, but they are experimenting/customising this particular chip because Nintendo paid them to do that. Its made for them.
The Switch 2 SoC is more customised than the Switch SoC.
ResilientBanana
Member
Nope. There won’t be enough bandwidth. Don’t do this to yourself.
alucard0712_rus
Member
It doesn't automatically mean that this chip will go to next system at all.
I dont believe for a second that Switch 2 is anywhere near the power of PS5/XSX, even with DLSS and stuff.
Other than that, Nvidia has proven time and time again to be a terrible company to work with, while AMD is/was so desperate that they probably gave Microsoft and Sony some pretty good longterm deals. There isn't really more to it than that.
Other than that, Nvidia has proven time and time again to be a terrible company to work with, while AMD is/was so desperate that they probably gave Microsoft and Sony some pretty good longterm deals. There isn't really more to it than that.
Woopah
Member
I think it's highly unlikely that Nvidia would spend years customising and building a chip for Nintendo's next generation API, if it was something Nintendo wasn't going to use in its next generation machine.
There was no other chip linked to Nintendo in Nvidia's future pipeline. Just the T239.
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cartman414
Member
Or the PowerPC chips, ironically enough IIRC.
Starbuck2907
Member
There are many reasons. One is that Nvidia wants to own the circuit board ip and just license it to the console company. This is one of the reasons the Xbox has never used silicon based backwards compatibility for original Xbox games. Licensing from Nvidia isn’t worth it.
MurfHey
Member
Isnt the 7700xt the mid card?
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
It’s a $50 price difference. No real point in buying the 7700xt
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
Because Nvidia are absolutely terrible to work with.
You will see a full ARM(CPU+GPU) console before you see Nvidia in another Sony or MS console.
AMD like having the easy revenue, the profits from consoles are relatively low margin but it's easy money with no risk.
Also don't buy into the switch 2 bullshit about it being a PS5 competitor in graphics, that's classic Nintendo fanboys hyping up another Nintendo console that will never live up to the hype.
Also AMD software is getting massively better, the recently revealed FSR3 and Hypr-rx look impressive.
Yea, NVIDIA are the king's of graphics, but AMD is no slouch, so just switching a console to NVIDIA may not bring anything worthwhile and if anything it runs the risk of being worse since NVIDIA hate low margins and that's the bread and butter of consoles.
You will see a full ARM(CPU+GPU) console before you see Nvidia in another Sony or MS console.
AMD like having the easy revenue, the profits from consoles are relatively low margin but it's easy money with no risk.
Also don't buy into the switch 2 bullshit about it being a PS5 competitor in graphics, that's classic Nintendo fanboys hyping up another Nintendo console that will never live up to the hype.
Also AMD software is getting massively better, the recently revealed FSR3 and Hypr-rx look impressive.
Yea, NVIDIA are the king's of graphics, but AMD is no slouch, so just switching a console to NVIDIA may not bring anything worthwhile and if anything it runs the risk of being worse since NVIDIA hate low margins and that's the bread and butter of consoles.
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cinnamonandgravy
Member
nvidia and microsoft were also fighting when the original xbox was on shelves.
if memory serves, OG xbox didnt sell as many units as forecasted, so nvidia generally wasnt happy with its returns. intel wanted to reduce manufacturing costs, but nvidia put in its contract that the price of its chips were constant--MS would always have to buy them at the fixed cost, even if they became cheaper to produce over time.
the two companies found about other crap too and it culminated in a lawsuit or two.