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[Candescence]

This specific issue is why I'm a huge advocate for making optional paddles a standard for future controllers. It takes some getting used to but it's a serious game changer for me not having to ever take my thumb off the thumbsticks to the point that I'm seriously considering buying a SCUF controller for PS4 (I already have the Elite for Xbox).

The Steam Controller's paddles were something I got used to really easily. Make them into proper buttons rather than part of the battery case, and make them four buttons instead of two, and I think Valve would really have something good going.

 

[Peltz]

I don't know... I feel pretty comfortable with my ability to control the camera in pretty much every game. It comes with experience but that's like anything else. It really doesn't give you much of an advantage to have total control of the camera at all times. It's rather unnecessary.

And pushing face buttons to interact with games just feels so good. I wouldn't want everything mapped to shoulder buttons because they aren't as satisfying in a tactile sense. Imagine pulling off a 30+ hit combo in Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta using only shoulder buttons.... no thanks...

 

[Chronospherics]

This specific issue is why I'm a huge advocate for making optional paddles a standard for future controllers. It takes some getting used to but it's a serious game changer for me not having to ever take my thumb off the thumbsticks to the point that I'm seriously considering buying a SCUF controller for PS4 (I already have the Elite for Xbox).

I think unfamiliarity is the issue really. If early controllers featured buttons on their rear, then it would be perceived much more favourably by players broadly.

If the PS2 had launched with paddles, I don't think it would have affected its success, and at the same time, we'd probably have some interesting games that now, don't exist because of the lack of buttons and options.

I also think some devs just shy away from 3rd person because they know camera programming is difficult to get right.

 

[Candescence]

Really, Steam-style universal configuration built into a console OS would solve an obscene number of issues when it comes to inputs for console gaming - universal support for peripherals (provided they support a standard minimum number of buttons), better support for features developers wouldn't use otherwise (the PS4's gyro and trackpad are criminally underused), allowing players to play games in way they feel more comfortable with, mouse and keyboard support, less dev work to support controller remapping (even on PC, input remapping is bafflingly difficult to implement even in engines you'd think would support it like Unreal), etc. Everybody wins.

 

[Chronospherics]

Really, Steam-style universal configuration built into a console OS would solve an obscene number of issues when it comes to inputs for console gaming - universal support for peripherals (provided they support a standard minimum number of buttons), better support for features developers wouldn't use otherwise (the PS4's gyro and trackpad are criminally underused), allowing players to play games in way they feel more comfortable with, mouse and keyboard support, etc. Everybody wins.

Agree. Some huge accessibility features are missing. As an example, anyone should be able to use the gyro as a right stick if they want to. It would be a fantastic accessibility feature as suddenly anyone missing an arm or hand would be able to play almost any game, one handed.

 

[Renna Hazel]

I want full control of the camera at all times. I hate when the game tries to move the camera for me. It was fine in games like Banjo-Kazooie where I had control 95 percent of the time, much worse in Yooka Laylee when the game kept thinking it knew where I wanted the camera to be.

 

[danmaku]

I want full control of the camera at all times. I hate when the game tries to move the camera for me. It was fine in games like Banjo-Kazooie where I had control 95 percent of the time, much worse in Yooka Laylee when the game kept thinking it knew where I wanted the camera to be.

This. Automatic camera will never be as good as manual, the game can't read your mind and can't know what you want to do next. It can guess really well, but even if it fails only 5% of the time, it's still annoying.

 

[chrominance]

One tangible benefit that VR could offer to people who aren't playing in VR is that it's shaking up controller design to an extent. Some of those changes could make their way into traditional controllers eventually.

That said, I do like grip buttons a lot but one thing that gets overlooked is that face buttons are really easy to read. This is a benefit mostly for people new to games (or that particular controller), but even experienced players might appreciate being able to see a face button prompt on a screen and look down to see what button they need to press. Grip buttons, on the other hand, are a lot more abstract. L1/L2 or LB/LT are already a bit hard to distinguish at a glance and you can't just look down at the controller to read those symbols, but smarter UI designers work around this by showing button shapes similar to those you find on the controller. Grip buttons may not even have that advantage. The more grip buttons, the more difficult the situation becomes. How do you explain at a glance that the user is supposed to depress the right ring finger grip button?

None of that is to say grip buttons are a non-starter; I do think they're a good idea and they work well on the Steam controller. But there are some usability issues that need to be worked out for newer players, I think.

 

[Chronospherics]

This. Automatic camera will never be as good as manual, the game can't read your mind and can't know what you want to do next. It can guess really well, but even if it fails only 5% of the time, it's still annoying.

Yeah, this is my sentiment. Even if you remove the usability issues, the game simply can't know what I want to look at. It's not good enough. I want control, or at least the option for control, and therefore it's always nice when a game lets you keep control by letting you keep your thumb on the right stick at all times.

 

[Candescence]

Agree. Some huge accessibility features are missing. As an example, anyone should be able to use the gyro as a right stick if they want to. It would be a fantastic accessibility feature as suddenly anyone missing an arm or hand would be able to play almost any game, one handed.

Yeah, universal controller support that allows for all sorts of accessibility options would be an absolute boon to gaming. I know some console players tend to be "ew, options are bad, fuck off with that shit, that's for PCs", but consoles are increasingly PC-like anyway, so they should just get used to it, especially since options in this case would benefit everyone.

One tangible benefit that VR could offer to people who aren't playing in VR is that it's shaking up controller design to an extent. Some of those changes could make their way into traditional controllers eventually.

That said, I do like grip buttons a lot but one thing that gets overlooked is that face buttons are really easy to read. This is a benefit mostly for people new to games (or that particular controller), but even experienced players might appreciate being able to see a face button prompt on a screen and look down to see what button they need to press. Grip buttons, on the other hand, are a lot more abstract. L1/L2 or LB/LT are already a bit hard to distinguish at a glance and you can't just look down at the controller to read those symbols, but smarter UI designers work around this by showing button shapes similar to those you find on the controller. Grip buttons may not even have that advantage. The more grip buttons, the more difficult the situation becomes. How do you explain at a glance that the user is supposed to depress the right ring finger grip button?

None of that is to say grip buttons are a non-starter; I do think they're a good idea and they work well on the Steam controller. But there are some usability issues that need to be worked out for newer players, I think.

Yeah, usability is an issue, but that's always been a problem for traditional controllers, especially these days. People forget how fucking byzantine your 'standard' controller looks to non-gamers. It's part of the reason why the Wii, DS and mobile gaming caught on so well with casual gamers, their control methods are just far more intuitive and natural.

 

[Head.spawn]

Fixed this for the most part with my Xbox Elite controller.

Even just mapping the jump button and maybe a dash, dodge there does wonders.

 

[Chronospherics]

Fixed this for the most part with my Xbox Elite controller.

Even just mapping the jump button and maybe a dash, dodge there does wonders.

Yeah. A number of people have said this and it definitely does fix the issue, but I think that type of controller appears very alien to a lot of less enthusiastic gamers.