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"Cosmetics Don't Matter" and Why They Do

Garlador

Member
"Clothes Make the Man" as the saying goes.
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(None of you wore your "Bruce Wayne" costume on Halloween as kids...)

Spinning off of the Overwatch Summer Games thread, and listening to many debates about the ethics or value of encouraging F2P mechanics in $60 retail games, I have lately been a bit... alarmed, I guess... at the number of gamers - here and throughout other forums - that have become incredibly dismissive of extra and optional skins, armor, or character skins, or other content, and bizarrely defensive of the companies increasingly encroaching on games with more and more brazen F2P mechanics and whale-hunting maneuvers.

This is something that is starting to make me feel OLD, because I feel like I've been around when this argument and this fight was just starting... and I've now seen how detrimental and cynical it has become.
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(Behold! An alternate costume that rocked the industry AND didn't cost $2.99 extra!)

It was ten years ago that I believe the issue of optional cosmetics and the ugly underbelly of DLC really first reared its once-so-promising head. The year was 2006 and Bethesda was riding high on the success of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and touting the virtues of DLC - a world of infinite possibilities and endless expansions and rainbows and kitties and everlasting gumdrops. And I still remember the backlash when THIS abomination dropped onto the marketplace for the sum of $2.50:

It's almost quaint now to look back at the infamous "horse armor", which became gamer short-hand for useless and overpriced DLC, and see how much it pales with what developers got away with later on. But, for those old enough to remember and for those too young to have been there, it kicked up one helluva storm. Professional websites and game journalists at the time took Bethseda to task for overcharging for simple in-game cosmetic items. It was widely and pervasively mocked and ridiculed, with many even saying that if Bethesda got away with it, it would open the doors wide open for other developers to start charging and overcharging real-world money for banal yet optional content. This was, at one point, HUGE.

And others in the game industry sounded off:
Pete Hines: “You can look at something like Horse Armor pack as an example. The reaction to Horse Armor wasn’t just about price. It was more of a lesson: when you’re going to ask somebody to pay X, do they feel like they’re getting Y in exchange? If they don’t feel like they’re getting their money’s worth, they’re going to bitch."

Some argued that it was optional, while others argued that it being optional wasn't the point; it was that the value was disproportionate to the price, and if you gave a company an inch, they'd take it a mile.

... Well, Bethesda didn't just get away with it, they laid out a red carpet for every developer to follow. "Horse Armor" was their #9 best-selling DLC, and its infamous "success" slowly started an uneven slide towards more and more companies locking "optional" cosmetics and content behind DLC paywalls.
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("DLC Quest" started as a joke, but it's pretty much the accepted norm these days)

Now, here's something a younger generation might not understand, or an older one might have become numb to over the past decade... "Cosmetics" not only used to matter a lot to many gamers, they often were some of the core reasons many of us stuck around and played these games in the first place. In those arcade-era days, where home console ports couldn't rely on quarters to get you by, stuffing those games with collectibles and unlockables was what ensured players kept coming back for more long after they'd seen and done everything.

For single-player fans, especially, a surplus of unlockables like skins, characters, and costumes were godsends that added replayability and value to these games. "Horse Armor" slowly encroached on how these developers made and marketed their games. I once spent HOURS playing and unlocking all the costumes in Dead or Alive 2 Ultimate...
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(I used to be able to EARN my filthy fetish outfits, you scoundrels!)

... Or tracking down all the fun and goofy alternate costumes in Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance in the Krypt...
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mortal-kombat-x-krypt-dlc-unlock.jpg

(or you can just f***ing pay $20 to unlock it, and buy some "easy fatalities" while you're at it)

I watched the argument rise and fall against Horse Armor, against costumes in SFIV being locked behind paywalls, then entire characters, then cheat codes, then versus modes, then color picker options, then voice acting, then difficulty modes, and even the actual ENDING of video games (90% of those examples may have been from Capcom...)
(And there were people defending Capcom for every single insane thing they tried charging for...)

People who say "cosmetics" don't matter and that they're optional seem to exist in some world where a visual identity of a game somehow is unimportant. Sure, gameplay still trumps anything else, but visuals are a HUGE part of a game and help shape its identity. Cosmetics and visuals have influence and power, and it's no surprise many studios use iconic imagery and visuals - simple "cosmetics" - to sell newer games to players.

Nostalgia is powerful, and every one of you has moments of your youth and childhood burned into your brain and etched into your memories. Movies and TV shows exploit that hard for every sequel, remake, or reboot they churn out, relying hard on the iconography and "cosmetics" that constitute those films you love, because they want you to see the new film and see and think of those warm feelings you have for the originals. Many of us have probably even been tricked into seeing something we hated because it had something visually similar to something else we loved.
("It's like poetry. It sort of rhymes.")

When it comes to games, visuals are part of the package. COSMETICS are part of the package. They're not divorced from gameplay or music or the story; they're part of the whole experience. After all, what I'm looking at constitutes some of the most important visual feedback a game can give me, and I'd like to think MOST of us care about the appearance of a game and want games to look nice to our eyes, if not on a technical level than at least on an artistic one.
("Cosmetics aren't important and don't matter!"... and yet I've read so, SOOO much bitching about the aesthetics and cosmetics of certain games over the years...)

I won't go into detail about how so many unlockables have just become something companies lock behind microtransactions and paywalls (aka, "a history of Capcom DLC schemes"), but cosmetics and costumes were once considered prime gamer "content". Technically, EVERYTHING is "optional" - nobody is forcing anybody to play a game a certain way or as a certain character or to even play the game at all - and determining how your character looks, what is the best "look" for your favorite character and customizing them to your preferred appearance, isn't something that many people feel is unimportant. Character and player customization options are REALLY important to many people...
uglyshepard610.jpg

(Otherwise, we wouldn't spend over an hour in the character creation screens getting Commander Shepard's facial hair JUST right...)

Sure, the most important thing is how a game plays. It always will be. But the cosmetics of characters matter greatly to many people, and if they don't matter to you personally, then just sit back and stay out of it instead of jumping to the defense of the big buddy corporation who is totally not putting microtransactions in their games hoping you DON'T buy them or altering their games in a way that your in-game currency can't buy certain cosmetics so the easiest way to get a costume you like is to keep gambling real-world money with no certainty you'll even get that costume you really want to have, but again, the publisher loves you and totally promises they're free, sort of, because it's really either time or money and we know both of those are practically limitless in life, so what's the big deal, right?
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(I think you can tell if I'm being sarcastic or not...)

Really, the biggest threat to gaming, in the past ten years I've watch it unfold, is player apathy and the slow tolerance of accepted business practices that exploit players, whether it started with horse armor or grew to online passes or pre-order bonuses or retailer exclusive pre-order bonuses or retailer exclusive day one pre-order bonuses or retailer exclusive day one collector's edition-only pre-order bonuses to season passes to on-disc DLC to microtransactions to MACROtransactions to requiring spreadsheets to figure out what in the hell we're actually even getting in our games anymore.
QhhT2IM.jpg

(I still have no idea what I ended up with...)

All this stuff? This "optional" stuff that doesn't affect gameplay? That's stuff we just used to call "content". Is music optional? Is color optional? Textures? Are all sound effects really necessary? How much "optional" content would you be willing to take away before you'd have a problem?
JVH1DmqW4csXqlZ4_Njb3dtVlg6TdhEBP24aiAQm6ZKfKYd9N0PfNUf5SCLBikNfujHMuq56=s640-h400-e365

(I present to you "Overwatch: Just the Essentials" edition. The gameplay is great though!)


Every part of a game - including DLC - factors into the ultimate package and experience of a game. Every visual, every sound effect, every animation, everything big and small, working together to make sure your gaming experience is the best it can be, to draw you in and keep you there. Cosmetics? Those are part of that visual experience, and they tap into our innate delight at being able to customize our characters to fit our own personalities and motifs and preferences. They IMPROVE OUR EXPERIENCES and for many players they hold a great deal of value, often just as much as gameplay or music or any other facet of a game.

... Holy crap. Anyone still with me? I promise I'm nearly done.

The events of Overwatch left me troubled because, even if cosmetics are "optional", the more important thing was Blizzard altered the terms and promises to their fans that "any costume could be unlocked" through the in-game currency you own, reneging on the way they marketed and distributed the content to players. And many, many players complained and many, many players went "so? They're just cosmetics. Gameplay is all that matters". And I don't understand that, nor do I personally accept it. It's an example where time and effort can legitimately FAIL to earn you the content through gameplay measures, putting you entirely at the mercy of RNG gods and making real-money gambling the safest and most efficient option.

It wasn't okay when other developers did it over the past ten years - and we sure as hell raised a stink about it to EA and Activision and Ubisoft and Capcom and Konami over the years - and I don't see any reason why anyone should get a pass on it if they ever did it. Not Nintendo, not Valve, not CD Projekt RED, not Blizzard. No matter how much you love that company or their work. Apathy and apologists have created a spiraling fracture of game design, and there hasn't been one case, not ONE, where a company getting away with anti-consumer or greedy business practices hasn't resulted in a line-up of other developers eager to do the same because why the hell not? Players rolled over and took it. Hell, many even DEFENDED these practices as if the merest hint of criticism was tantamount to personally insulting the players themselves. It's business 101 on how to exploit a customer base; to eventually wear them down to the point of apathy and acceptance, because they'll ALWAYS go as far as the customers will let them.

"Cosmetics Matter". They always have, and for many I think they always will.
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(I don't want to live in a world where Sailor Shorts Chris Redfield "doesn't matter".)
 

wapplew

Member
Cosmetics Matter. One of the reason I prefer 3rd person games, I want to see my character(ass)!
That said, I have no problem pay a little extra for cosmetic I like, those need dev time to make after all.
 
I love looking cool, but I'm also totally in the mind set that if it's cosmetic and doesn't affect the game play, then I'm cool with however they want to run it.

In terms of Overwatch, I think having the skin's ect being the way they are is a GOOD thing because it really makes you feel special if you acquire one. You get to stand out of the crowd. I'm very much OK with the way it's going in that particular game.
 
In terms of Overwatch, I think having the skin's ect being the way they are is a GOOD thing because it really makes you feel special if you acquire one.

The thing is you could also just buy lootboxes for 50$ and feel "special"...

And of course they matter. I love Overwatch, but the whole skin shenanigans is stupid af. Then you read from people in the OW thread "Come on its not a big deal. These are just cosmetics. Oh btw. I just bought 100$ worth of lootboxes!"
 

enkaisu

Banned
This was a good read. Every time I hear "it's just cosmetic" I cringe.

I love video games with skins, outfits, etc and I am more likely to buy and enjoy a game if it has a sizable amount of cosmetics and customization options. I love the Dark Souls series because of all the great armor and clothes you get in those games and I genuinely enjoyed Fallout 4 less because I found it very hard to find any outfits I liked for my character.

Cosmetics are great, and it sucks that 90% of the time that stuff gets relegated to DLC/microtransactions.
 

pizzacat

Banned
Ehh idk. I haven't really gotten any lootboxes in overwatch with actual money or wasted any ow coin because nothing interests me.

Now I'm getting that dva emote because I'd feel like a poser if I dont
 
Doesn't the whole mindset that cosmetics matter give companies more of a reason to sell them? Because people feel theyre worth it. If they really didnt matter they wouldnt make money off it.
 
I said this in the other thread but no one seemed to read or comprehend it, so I'll say it again and even expand on it a bit.

As long as the base price of a game has to be $60, additional revenue mechanics like DLC, cosmetic packs, Season Passes, etc. will continue to expand and proliferate. The price of a game has remained stagnant for decades while cost to make games continues to increase and also inflation is a thing. The additional revenue is not optional for the game's developers and publishers, it is necessary to prevent the industry's collapse.

So yes, cosmetics matter. The good news is, you can leave the spending on cosmetics to other people if you don't want to buy them. Your game is still $60, you lucky bastard. The people who do buy the cosmetics are paying for you to be able to keep playing for free so why not be nice and thank them the next time you see them?
 
Of course they do. Cosmetics are the #2 selling item type after boosts (bonus XP, etc.) in literally every micro-transaction store there is (or #1 if you don't sell XP potions).

If they weren't important, the market wouldn't buy them in fucking droves.
 
The thing is you could also just buy lootboxes for 50$ and feel "special"...

And of course they matter. I love Overwatch, but the whole skin shenanigans is stupid af. Then you read from people in the OW thread "Come on its not a big deal. These are just cosmetics. Oh btw. I just bought 100$ worth of lootboxes!"

I totally understand that this is the argument against Blizzards system. But because they are just cosmetics I'm OK with it. I've been playing certain f2p mobile games the past year or so that use these tactics in much more nefarious ways. Truth be told I've dropped a few hundred dollars at this point on things that make me more powerful in those particular games. That drive to get a more powerful item is strong, and if it's in a slot machine it hurts. The Overwatch slot machine is just as bad, however I don't feel compelled to pull that lever. I can sympathize with those who do, and I know the feeling well of spending money and not getting what you want. But when it's all said and done in Overwatch it doesn't hurt my experience with the game. We want to unlock everything as it's ingrained into our gamer minds, but what's particularly interesting in Overwatchs case, is that we can open a menu and see everything we want right there. Showing off your cool new skin and emote in a match is all that's left. And really, when you think about it, that's one of the most meaningless aspects to the people you're playing with.
 
I said this in the other thread but no one seemed to read or comprehend it, so I'll say it again and even expand on it a bit.

As long as the base price of a game has to be $60, additional revenue mechanics like DLC, cosmetic packs, Season Passes, etc. will continue to expand and proliferate. The price of a game has remained stagnant for decades while cost to make games continues to increase and also inflation is a thing. The additional revenue is not optional for the game's developers and publishers, it is necessary to prevent the industry's collapse.

So yes, cosmetics matter. The good news is, you can leave the spending on cosmetics to other people if you don't want to buy them. Your game is still $60, you lucky bastard. The people who do buy the cosmetics are paying for you to be able to keep playing for free so why not be nice and thank them the next time you see them?
but this model blows. Buying cosmetics sucks and takes all the fun out of using them.

Then there is overwatch's system which creates another unfun scenario where getting the drop you want doesnt include excitement at having earned it or unlocked it, it comes with relief that RNG rolled in your favor.

I'd be all for games starting to price more realistically for the base product, both higher and lower, but thats unlikely to happen

it seems like the further we wade into bnuyable cosmetics the more developers forget to have fun side unlocks in game. For a slightly dated example, Soul Calibur 3 had more unlocks that were way more fun to unlock and then use than Soul Calibur V. These days basically no games have fun to use and acquire unlockables, theyve been replaced by achivements/trophies that get you nothing but a +1 arbitrary number and then a buyable actual unlockable
 

Vintage

Member
That's what these companies want you to think.

Why do you think there's no option to disable skins, so that you would only see default models? Let's say some flashy skins distracts me and interrupt my concentration. Because Blizzard (and any other company) wants you to see other players with skins and think that they are cooler than you and you need to buy these skins.

If there was such option you would realise that cosmetics doesn't matter to the game, it only makes a real difference to developers who want to make money.
 
I totally understand that this is the argument against Blizzards system. But because they are just cosmetics I'm OK with it. I've been playing certain f2p mobile games the past year or so that use these tactics in much more nefarious ways. Truth be told I've dropped a few hundred dollars at this point on things that make me more powerful in those particular games. That drive to get a more powerful item is strong, and if it's in a slot machine it hurts. The Overwatch slot machine is just as bad, however I don't feel compelled to pull that lever. I can sympathize with those who do, and I know the feeling well of spending money and not getting what you want. But when it's all said and done in Overwatch it doesn't hurt my experience with the game. We want to unlock everything as it's ingrained into our gamer minds, but what's particularly interesting in Overwatchs case, is that we can open a menu and see everything we want right there. Showing off your cool new skin and emote in a match is all that's left. And really, when you think about it, that's one of the most meaningless aspects to the people you're playing with.

The problem isnt the system. The bigger problem is that you cant even buy the Summer Skins with the normal money and you have to either play a lot of hours in that 3 weeks or buy a lot of lootboxes.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
In terms of Overwatch, I think having the skin's ect being the way they are is a GOOD thing because it really makes you feel special if you acquire one. You get to stand out of the crowd. I'm very much OK with the way it's going in that particular game.

Actually I think one weakness right now is that there aren't any uber rare skins. Everything is just rare enough that you don't have them all without any one of them being so rare that its a real "prize"

The summer skins might be that in six months I guess
 

Soodanim

Gold Member
I will admit that I didn't read the OP past the first couple paragraphs, as there's a point at which the effort you put in (ie length of post) becomes inversely proportional to the chance of me reading it all. I respect the effort, but I already ultimately agree with the title and what I skimmed.

If cosmetics didn't matter, DOTA2 wouldn't work as a business model. TF2 went F2P after years because it works.

I miss decent unlockable skins. I honestly think if a big(-ish) game used "We have unlockable skins and other stuff" as part of its pre-release marketing they'd win over people they might not have got before. Whether or not that would offset the DLC costume profit though? Probably not.

I will admit that I've bought costume DLC in the past in rare occasions. Usually when the desire for something outweighs the self-hate of supporting such a money grabbing business model, and usually the justification is "I could lose a coin that costs as much and not notice".
 
but this model blows. Buying cosmetics sucks and takes all the fun out of using them.

Then there is overwatch's system which creates another unfun scenario where getting the drop you want doesnt include excitement at having earned it or unlocked it, it comes with relief that RNG rolled in your favor.

I'd be all for games starting to price more realistically for the base product, both higher and lower, but thats unlikely to happen

it seems like the further we wade into bnuyable cosmetics the more developers forget to have fun side unlocks in game. For a slightly dated example, Soul Calibur 3 had more unlocks that were way more fun to unlock and then use than Soul Calibur V. These days basically no games have fun to use and acquire unlockables, theyve been replaced by achivements/trophies that get you nothing but a +1 arbitrary number and then a buyable actual unlockable

I agree with you but unless we all form the industry consensus that games should now cost $100 instead of $60, there isn't a lot which can be done about it.

The $60 base price is about enough to cover the development cost of a game without fun unlockables, so that's what we get these days.

It's actually correct that you mention SC3 and then SCV, because SC3 was a PS2 game and SCV was a PS3 game and it was that generation change from PS2 era to PS3 era where game development costs just exploded.
 
The problem isnt the system. The bigger problem is that you cant even buy the Summer Skins with the normal money and you have to either play a lot of hours in that 3 weeks or buy a lot of lootboxes.

I think it makes the players who get these skins feel good since it's unique and harder to come by. They feel lucky and special for getting a skin out of one roll as opposed to the person that rolls 100. I'm very much OK with seeing those select few thrilled that they got something neat. I'm also OK with the so called "whales" that exist in the market getting what they want too. This leaves the poor folks in the middle, unwilling to spend money and unlucky. These are the majority of the gamers, and without this whole dichotomy of haves and have nots we wouldn't even be discussing this tonight. Is it a healthy system? Probably not for those with a gambling problem. But it sure is making certain video game companies a ton of extra cash.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
I completely agree with you, OP; though I wouldn't limit it to just costumes and the like. Unlockables, in general, have disappeared... along with one of the major appeals of being a completionist with games.

As soon as companies realized that instead of giving the player a cool bonus for their dedication, you could kick them 20 gamer points, the dream was kinda dead.
 
Actually I think one weakness right now is that there aren't any uber rare skins. Everything is just rare enough that you don't have them all without any one of them being so rare that its a real "prize"

The summer skins might be that in six months I guess

I too, actually wish there were super rare skins tbh. I enjoy the feeling of unlocking and using something nobody else has.
 
Just wanted to say cosmetics do matter to me, and I agree with you op that they matter in general. This whole discussion stems from the Overwatch stuff going on, I feel like I should jump in there and converse with those guys.
 
This was wonderfully written. I agree on pretty much every point you made. I miss being able to unlock hidden costumes and skins. But, as others have said, making a game these days is very expensive and costume dlc is a pretty consumer friendly way to mitigate the costs.

Great work though. It was a fantastic read. It makes me a little bummed at the state of the industry these days, but at the same time now is probably the best time ever to be playing video games. It's a strange time we live in.
 

gatti-man

Member
OP this is beautifully stated. Wonderful argument. This is exactly why I feel like I'm taking crazy pills talking to some of these people that say "it doesn't effect gameplay" I'm like I play games with my eyes of course it effects gameplay.

This was wonderfully written. I agree on pretty much every point you made. I miss being able to unlock hidden costumes and skins. But, as others have said, making a game these days is very expensive and costume dlc is a pretty consumer friendly way to mitigate the costs.

Great work though. It was a fantastic read. It makes me a little bummed at the state of the industry these days, but at the same time now is probably the best time ever to be playing video games. It's a strange time we live in.

See but it's not mitigating costs at all it's straight profit. If overwatch was using lootboxes to mitigate costs why do what they did with the Olympic Games dlc? Overwatch is already insanely profitable. They then twisted the knife even more to squeeze more money out of gamers in a totally brazen way.

That's what is so wrong about it. And this content would have been included or at most a $5-$10 dlc just a few years ago. Now you could spend $100 on loot boxes and not have everything or even close to everything in overwatch.
 

JP_

Banned
Obviously cosmetics have value. But when you need to monetize something to fund continued development of a competitive multiplayer game in a market where game prices haven't kept up with inflation but consumers demand larger and larger budgets, cosmetics are the least offensive thing to monetize. Better than monetizing maps, characters, weapons, etc. If you don't monetize cosmetics, what's left? What sustainable alternative are you proposing?
 

mnemonicj

Member
Meh, I'm probably in the same generation as you are op and I remember the time where dlc+cosmetics were non-existent. A good discussion back when this all started was how actual gameplay content was going to be behind a paywall. I remember thinking to myself that I'd never pay extra for additional content, and of course I was naive and didn't see the real picture of how developers would use this for their advantage and actually lock out a lot of content that could've been a part of the vanilla game.

I like cosmetics, but I recently started getting into Overwatch and I just love that the gameplay is great and I have no need to really "unlock" anything. All weapons and characters are there. I might feel in a way when I see other players using cool skins, but then I remember that all I can see from my avatar is the gun I'm using and the feeling goes away :)
So imo, if people wanna pay for stuff that makes them look cooler, go ahead, I can pay for it as well if I ever want it. Besides, you are also not really offering an alternative for these business to keep at their practices. But please don't make me pay for actual gameplay.
 

jdstorm

Banned
Cosmetics matter, but like others have said. It's the fair compromise between players and accountants that has been deemed acceptable within the industry
 

gatti-man

Member
Obviously cosmetics have value. But when you need to monetize something to fund continued development of a competitive multiplayer game in a market where game prices haven't kept up with inflation but consumers demand larger and larger budgets, cosmetics are the least offensive thing to monetize. Better than monetizing maps, characters, weapons, etc. If you don't monetize cosmetics, what's left? What sustainable alternative are you proposing?

See my post above yours for why this argument is frankly bullshit.

Meh, I'm probably in the same generation as you are op and I remember the time where dlc+cosmetics were non-existent. A good discussion back when this all started was how actual gameplay content was going to be behind a paywall. I remember thinking to myself that I'd never pay extra for additional content, and of course I was naive and didn't see the real picture of how developers would use this for their advantage and actually lock out a lot of content that could've been a part of the vanilla game.

I like cosmetics, but I recently started getting into Overwatch and I just love that the gameplay is great and I have no need to really "unlock" anything. All weapons and characters are there. I might feel in a way when I see other players using cool skins, but then I remember that all I can see from my avatar is the gun I'm using and the feeling goes away :)
So imo, if people wanna pay for stuff that makes them look cooler, go ahead, I can pay for it as well if I ever want it. Besides, you are also not really offering an alternative for these business to keep at their practices. But please don't make me pay for actual gameplay.

Many of the skins in overwatch change sounds and voice lines your character makes as well as the weapon and bullets or grappling hooks. It certainly affects the experience even if you can't see your own skin.
 

patapuf

Member
Cosmetics do matter but locking them behind DLC instead of Maps or new weapons and similar content leads to a better gameplay experience due to the community not being split.

Unless one thinks bad of all forms of DLC I'll take having to pay for costumes over having to pay for maps/modes etc.
 

gatti-man

Member
lol you're basically just arguing they don't need the money. So, you'd be ok with a less profitable game doing the exact same thing if they needed the money?

It's not an argument that's a fact. You said it pays for development and I countered with blizzard is already a ton in the black so your argument is bullcrap and you respond with ? Nothing. Ok so we agree your argument is wrong.

Cosmetics do matter but locking them behind DLC instead of Maps or new weapons and similar content leads to a better gameplay experience due to the community not being split.

Unless one thinks bad of all forms of DLC I'll take having to pay for costumes over having to pay for maps/modes etc.

Lol if overwatch locked any maps in dlc the game would be practically unplayable it has so few maps. This again is missing the point here. Most of these games are obviously locking vanilla content behind gambling mechanics in ways that are designed to milk players. This isn't a cash shop for bonus content. That's totally fine. This is something else that used to be entirely frowned upon but now gamers are actually asking for it.
 

Inviusx

Member
Cosmetics matter but only in MP games. Pretty sure it's hard wired into our brains that we want to look cool and different in front of other people. Cosmetics in SP games that are monetized can go and get fucked. If your game is SP there shouldn't be monetized cosmetics.
 

jdstorm

Banned
It's not an argument that's a fact. You said it pays for development and I countered with blizzard is already a ton in the black so your argument is bullcrap and you respond with ? Nothing. Ok so we agree your argument is wrong.

The better arguement is that it pays for the upkeep of servers and teams of people to keep inproving the game.

Why would a company pay a team of 20-50 people to continue fixing and balancing a game with a vibrant community when those players weren't making them any money?

Paying for cosmetic DLC is a nessecary sacrifice to keep the games as a service model alive. I do wish the awful gambling/Skinner box/loot crate mechanics would be removed from the industry
 

JP_

Banned
latest

(Behold! An alternate costume that rocked the industry AND didn't cost $2.99 extra!)

In 2016 dollars, this game cost about $110.00 and had a dev team of only about 15 people max.
 

patapuf

Member
It's not an argument that's a fact. You said it pays for development and I countered with blizzard is already a ton in the black so your argument is bullcrap and you respond with ? Nothing. Ok so we agree your argument is wrong.



Lol if overwatch locked any maps in dlc the game would be practically unplayable it has so few maps. This again is missing the point here. Most of these games are obviously locking vanilla content behind gambling mechanics in ways that are designed to milk players. This isn't a cash shop for bonus content. That's totally fine. This is something else that used to be entirely frowned upon but now gamers are actually asking for it.

I'm not even talking overwatch specifically. I used to play a ton of Battlefield. I'll take locking all customisation options behind a paywall over them selling 5 map packs that have tepid playlists because only few people play them.

Games will have DLC nowadays, especially AAA games. I'll take monetising cosmetics over monetising content a 100% of the time.

Of course if one thinks all DLC is bad or that a game doesn't "deserve" to charge for any DLC then one would think charging for cosmetics is bad. I'm fine with the compromise that costumes are what's locked behind a paywall.
 
It's not an argument that's a fact. You said it pays for development and I countered with blizzard is already a ton in the black so your argument is bullcrap and you respond with ? Nothing. Ok so we agree your argument is wrong.



Lol if overwatch locked any maps in dlc the game would be practically unplayable it has so few maps. This again is missing the point here. Most of these games are obviously locking vanilla content behind gambling mechanics in ways that are designed to milk players. This isn't a cash shop for bonus content. That's totally fine. This is something else that used to be entirely frowned upon but now gamers are actually asking for it.

Activison/Blizzard is a public company. For a public company, more or less, you can't "have enough money". Even though they're already in the black, they have to strive to be even further in the black of they'll lose investors.
 

JP_

Banned
The better arguement is that it pays for the upkeep of servers and teams of people to keep inproving the game.

Why would a company pay a team of 20-50 people to continue fixing and balancing a game with a vibrant community when those players weren't making them any money?

Paying for cosmetic DLC is a nessecary sacrifice to keep the games as a service model alive. I do wish the awful gambling/Skinner box/loot crate mechanics would be removed from the industry

He doesn't understand how business or game development works.

It's not an argument that's a fact. You said it pays for development and I countered with blizzard is already a ton in the black so your argument is bullcrap and you respond with ? Nothing. Ok so we agree your argument is wrong.

Heh, I'll ask again. What if Blizzard wasn't in the black? Would it be ok then? You seem to think that's an important distinction.

And you seem to think Blizzard stopped spending money on Overwatch, which is obviously not the case -- servers still cost money -- especially when you're hosting game servers for millions of players. Has development on Overwatch stopped? Of course not. For all we know they've increased the team size and are reinvesting their profits into the franchise to grow it into something even bigger (or fund development of new games).
 
S

Steve.1981

Unconfirmed Member
Well said OP, very well said.

I'm with you. Can't stand the way "micro-transactions" in full price games has almost became an acceptable, normal thing. Can't stand the way some people defend the greedy corporations reaming us for more, more, MORE MONEY! when we've already payed.
 
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