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[Chopin Trusty Balls]

This kind of discusion usually walks on thin edge of ToS,so lets be careful

Starforce 3 technology is improving from game to game,SF3 creates unique protection pattern its nearly impossible to develop a universal no-CD patch(that would also weight like 20 Megs),TOCA2 hasnt been broken yet.Burning such CDs is exteremly complicated,the protection installs itself into drivers and detects any software like Alcohol and Daemon,the amount of work that needs to be done to get such game to work would be too much for most consumers.

Codemasters and CDV are allready using it in all of thier future full price games.Eidos,Activision and ATARI are considering jumping the wagon this Fall.

Such action combined with future stuff like DRM and TCPA would likely increase software sales in PC market noticably.

http://www.star-force.com/

 

[radios shipping overview]

Increase? If more PC games start deciding not to run for me because of what software I've got on my computer, even though I purchased a licensed copy, I'll be buying less and less of them.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

If I had my way, there would only be a new video card generation every other year...instead of every 6 months. The ever-increasing spec requirements for games are what is slowing the potential for game sales in the PC market, IMO. In their drive toward ever-improving tech, they forgot that there are a lot of people who simply refuse to or can't afford to keep up a computer to run major new games at acceptable performance levels. Unfortunately, it'll probably never be this way. Sometimes, I miss the fixed-function, closed hardware of the 8- and 16-bit computing era.

 

[IgeL]

The problem is that it also creates stupid crap onto your computer. People have had problems with USB memory sticks after installing games with SF3.

There's been quite a backlash against games that use SF3. I think quite rightly so. Copy protection is fine if it doesn't do anything "illegal" or make life harder for normal users.

I hope they can solve the problems, though.

Edit: meh, problems already mentioned... oh well.

 

[Laurent]

Only this could save the PC games market...

 

[Mrbob]

Only a matter of time. TOCA 2 already has some problems with Starforce and detection of drives so I'm glad PC game manufacturers still love to punish those who buy games. So I must fix your thread title.

Could new Copy protection technologies destroy PC games market?(Starforce 3)

 

[deadhorse32]

Because we all know there is no legitimate use for Alcohol or Daemon Tool.

 

[ced]

Increase? If more PC games start deciding not to run for me because of what software I've got on my computer, even though I purchased a licensed copy, I'll be buying less and less of them.

I couldnt agree more here. I dont buy(nor DL, I cant get broadband yet) many PC titles anymore because they are such an inconvience. Like you said being punished for purchasing a game where as a pirate gets the game, no 3rd party copy protection that wont read on 50% of CDR or DVD drives, and isnt required to have a CD in the fucking drive.

I dont see a possible solution for it, there is always gonna be a no cd / liscense crack. Its just getting worse and worse on the consumer. Ive never understand why they would want to spend extra money and time on copy protection that just doesnt work, it makes no sense to me, as far as I can tell they dont decrease the number of pirated copies.

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

Most people use Alcohol and Daemon for non legal purposes(not saying they use it only for illegal purposes)

 

[dark10x]

Most people use Alcohol and Daemon for non legal purposes(not saying they use it only for illegal purposes)

Yes, but ASSUMING that to be the case is simply incorrect. It is not right that a company can basically prevent people from using LEGAL software. The companies using SF3 are basically saying that you can not use software such as Alcohol 120%. So, what do you think the creators of that software think about that?

I absolutely HATE the approach they are taking here. It PUNISHES the real users and simply creates a new challenge for pirates (a challenge that WILL be cracked eventually).

 

[Ghost]

Whether its mainly used for illegal purposes or not, im legally entitled to have a back-up copy of a game/music CD that i own. it wont be long before someone brings this to the attention of the law.

 

[Lord Error]

Well, this is sure one draconian protection scheme. It installs some hidden crap devices on the very low level (into kernel) without even informing the user about it, and the game de-installation does not remove it. The way I see it, I spend extra hours trying to keep my PC free if spyware, auto updaters, helpers, and all the random stuff that just clogs resources, and even with all my care, Windows inevitably deteriorates and needs to be re-installed at least once a year. When even legal software starts installing some random crap, and even forces you to actually deinstall some software that you already have installed on the machine - well, screw that. Good for the developers that noone has been able to crack it yet, but I'm not buying games that install scumware. Seriously, with software like this, I can see many people actually rooting for the warezed version, which will ironically be cleaner, and more user friendly.

 

[G4life98]

short answer is no

and i didnt know the pc game market needed saving and thank god for no cd cracks, i always hated having to track down a disc when i want to play an older game

 

[Lord Error]

That's not even going into some even more dubious aspects of this issue... Some people are claiming that SF3 patches the CD calls in the Windows kernel, and if this is not being approved by Microsoft, it's flat out illegal (not to mention that it requires an insight into Windows Kernel source code...)

There is also a clear suspicion that Starforce programmers (conveniently based in Russia) basically stole/reverse engineered this whole protection scheme from Link Data Security, and are now selling it as their own:

http://www.linkdata.com/index.htm#pnews6

You'll see on the link above that Link Data uses the same kind of protection that measures physical parameters of the glass master CD and generates the key, not to mention that the email they received pretty much confirmed that Starforce programmer reverse engineered the whole thing.

 

[dark10x]

Seriously, with software like this, I can see many people actually rooting for the warezed version, which will ironically be cleaner, and more user friendly.

Yep, that is exactly how I feel...

If the "Warez" version of a game is actually free of this spyware, I'd be more inclined to simply choose that over a boxed version. Spyware is something that truly angers me and, quite frankly, is something I prefer to keep AWAY from my PC.

Anyone happen to have a list of the games which use SF3?

Oh, and I've already been hit with Starforce. Is there any way to REMOVE this trojan? It has buried itself within my device manager. I'm not entirely certain which recent PC game I've purchased placed it there...but I'd like to know how to at least remove it.

 

[Chopin Trusty Balls]

http://www.adventurecompanygames.com/tac/support/media/StarforceClean.exe

I dont buy the story with Email,sounds too stupid to be true

 

[Keio]

What has done a lot of good to the pc games market is the improved CD-key system. No online for pirates!

I dislike all copy protection that incoveniences the customer - copy controlled audio cds that break the redbook standard, games that install "trojans", checks that slow performance and things like that.

For example I had to use a no-cd for my legit copy of Morrowind, because the cd check made the whole game creep down to unplayable frame rates at times.

Still, I fear that with faster BB connections, Bittorrent, easy Xbox chipping, PS2 HDLoader etc. the industry is again facing a serious problem with piracy. Will it kill gaming? Well - the only way to be sure is to rap: DON'T COPY THAT FLOPPY!

 

[Lord Error]

Oh, and I've already been hit with Starforce. Is there any way to REMOVE this trojan?

Yeah, there is a utility to remove it, provided by the makers of the protection software (and it was made only after numerous complaints) However, there are reports that it doesn't work for everyone, and that the removed devices return after couple of reboots.

 

[Uncle Dukey]

I agree with Keio. I am fine with a CD-Key system, but please don't bother with these CD-checks.

 

[akascream]

I hate copy protection because it inconveniences me as a consumer, but I realize it's the thieves that make this necessary. I welcome any technological advances that inconvenience thier ability to be bad people. :thumbsup

 

[Panajev2001a]

I hate copy protection because it inconveniences me as a consumer, but I realize it's the thieves that make this necessary. I welcome any technological advances that inconvenience thier ability to be bad people. :thumbsup

Haha, for them it is a challenge ( and they love challenges ), some of those people get off announcements like this ready to get working on a measure to circumvent this.

 

[akascream]

So anti-piracy measures actually create more piracy. Developers ought to just start giving thier software away for free. I imagine this would stop the theft of videogames completely!

 

[Panajev2001a]

So anti-piracy measures actually create more piracy. Developers ought to just start giving thier software away for free. I imagine this would stop the theft of videogames completely!

I did not say that, nice way of changing things around just for the sake of arguing when your main point was defeated .

You said:

I hate copy protection because it inconveniences me as a consumer, but I realize it's the thieves that make this necessary. I welcome any technological advances that inconvenience thier ability to be bad people. :thumbsup

If inconveniencing consumers "a lot" following such a measure does not really solve the problem, why inconvenience the consumers ?

This technological advance does not really inconvenience them, it is the normal PC user who will likely feel inconvenienced.

 

[Panajev2001a]

So anti-piracy measures actually create more piracy. Developers ought to just start giving thier software away for free. I imagine this would stop the theft of videogames completely!

No, people would still steal games, it is a principles thing .

 

[Seth C]

Keep dreaming. Software piracy has little to no REAL negative impact on PC software sales. Any stats you see that say otherwise assume that all pirated copies would have been sold copies. That logic is painfully flawed. Beyond this, what would one base their statistics on? There isn't a period of history where PC software wasn't easily pirated. People always passed their disks around. If sales are getting worse as piracy protection increases, I'm not sure how that would favor their "point."

 

[CrimsonSkies]

It will have to be in the hardware. That's the only way to even have a hope of seeing a real decline. Software can and always is broken.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

No, this shit will increase piracy. Fucking funny how pirated games these days cause less system stability problems, and incompatibilities because of the lack of shitty anti-piracy software. Yeah, lets make it harder on the user who pays for our product, and ignore the people distributing the pirated versions! Good idea.

 

[ravingloon]

Keep dreaming. Software piracy has little to no REAL negative impact on PC software sales. Any stats you see that say otherwise assume that all pirated copies would have been sold copies. That logic is painfully flawed. Beyond this, what would one base their statistics on? There isn't a period of history where PC software wasn't easily pirated. People always passed their disks around. If sales are getting worse as piracy protection increases, I'm not sure how that would favor their "point."

The mantra of the pirates. PC piracy is different because if you don't mind infecting your computer with viruses, you can download anything you want off file-sharing (or however the scumbags do it.) It has zero barrier for entrance other than a willingness to do it.

Would people buy everything they otherwise downloaded? Of course not. These scourge seem to download everything (other than games which requiere CD keys for online. Sadly this kills the single-player sales.) released. But if all these clowns save their pennies and bought 5,10,15 games a year, sales would be up drastically. The fact that top sales charts are almost always mass-market titles and games which require a valid CD-key for online play is not a coincidence.

 

[Panajev2001a]

But if all these clowns save their pennies and bought 5,10,15 games a year, sales would be up drastically.

You just admitted that those clowns would not buy everything they download and now you say "if they saved money and bought games"... yeah nice idea, are you going to aim a gun at their heads to make sure that they open the wallet and buy games they do not want to buy ?

 

[Slo]

The effects of piracy are unquatifiable. Any $$$ total you see is a lie, and anyone who claims piracy has no effect on the industry is a fool.

 

[fennec fox]

Can the usual piracy argument that is threatening to begin here. It's been done before.

I am 26 years old and I have a right to play a PC game without sticking my damn CD in every time.

 

[The Shadow]

Consider this: I bought a legit copy of Broken Sword 3 for the PC. I actually opened the box and took the shrink wrap off the CD case but thankfully never installed it. Why? Because it installs that Starforce 3 driver crap.

Because of that anti-piracy spyware, I did not install the PC version and instead copied my friends Xbox version.

If anything, the new copy protection schemes are driving me to piracy, not preventing it. I'm not even sure I should install Syberia 2 now, since I think "The Adventure Company" has a hand in publishing that one too and now I'm leery of installing it thinking it might have that Starforce 3 shit too.

 

[shuri]

:rolleyes

You will never see such a hardcore protection system on a mainstream pc games. UT, Quake, and other games dont even bother with cdchecks. It's all about the cdkey

 

[Nerevar]

The mantra of the pirates. PC piracy is different because if you don't mind infecting your computer with viruses, you can download anything you want off file-sharing (or however the scumbags do it.) It has zero barrier for entrance other than a willingness to do it.

Funny, I'm not going to be buying ANY game that installs this starforce program because I don't want to infect my computer with viruses. It's the same reason I won't buy copy-protected CDs. I won't willingly install viruses. Kind of ironic that the cracked copies of these games are more secure than the retail ones, huh?

And yes, according to technical definitions, these programs are a kind of virus.

 

[The Shadow]

:rolleyes

You will never see such a hardcore protection system on a mainstream pc games. UT, Quake, and other games dont even bother with cdchecks. It's all about the cdkey

It has nothing to do with being "mainstream". UT and Quake don't need the hardcore protection because they're largely played online and only legal copies can play on legal servers.*



*reminds me of the asshat that got pissed because he couldn't play alien storm as ferrio was running a legal server.

Such action combined with future stuff like DRM and TCPA would likely increase software sales in PC market noticably.

Could new Copy protection technologies save PC games market?(Starforce 3)

I hope you don't really believe that. I won't argue that piracy takes money away from developers and publishers but stopping the minority (pirates) by installing virusware and punishing people who buy legit software is not going to fix the problem.

Consider this. How do pirates get their software? On IRC, newgroups, etc. How do you get these anti-piracy softare drivers installed? By having the legal, store bought copy and installing the game off that.

WOW! A lot of thinking went into that anti-piracy protection.