That's fascinating. I'm a speed reader, so whenever something like that happens I notice it and then read the line a couple more times to make sure the disconnect was there. Maybe knowing this is the reason will bring some consolation and help me ignore it going forward.
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Dear developers: Learn how to do subtitles, because you obviously have no clue!
- Thread starter jett
- Start date
That's fascinating. I'm a speed reader, so whenever something like that happens I notice it and then read the line a couple more times to make sure the disconnect was there. Maybe knowing this is the reason will bring some consolation and help me ignore it going forward.
ianhamilton-
Neo Member
Here's an example of one of the worst offenders:
It comes about for a lots of reasons, one being militant art directors who don't want subs/captions interfering with their UI, another being UI designers who are working on huge mac screens about 12 inches from their face.
But the thing is.. even the above isn't really a 'worst offender', it's a matter of preference. I saw at least one person in this thread saying that they prefer small subtle subtitles.
Which makes perfect sense. If you're using them just as an occasional quick reference to glance it if you miss a certain word, there would clearly be some people who would prefer them to be as unobtrusive as possible.
And on the other hand, people who have impaired hearing (or are playing on mute because the baby is asleep, etc etc) who completely rely on seeing every single word, they obviously need to be as clear and legible as possible. Especially if you're older (which we will all be eventually), and are likely to have mild-moderate hearing AND vision impairment.
There's a simple solution though, which would be to allow the formatting to be configurable. Choice of colour, font, size, and letterboxing/shadow.. all of those things would be pretty easy to do.
What would be even better would be if the device manufacturers were to store those preferences at a system level, with a handy API so that developers can access them, read back what that particular player's preferences are and apply them to the game.
And guess what. That's exactly what there is. Android, iOS and XB1 all have system settings for subtitle formatting, and an API for developer to access those settings through. For example...
(The PS4 has the same kind of settings, but they aren't available for game developers to use, they only apply to apps, blu-rays etc)
But despite these settings being freely available, no developer that I'm aware of has ever bothered making use of them. I haven't even come across any game that allows subtitle formatting to be customised in any way at all, despite it being standard practice in other forms of digital media.
So if you're looking for something to advocate for, something to let developers to know that they should be doing, this would be a very very good thing to concentrate on.
It's a real shame to see subtitles in such a poor state, so far behind other industries when really they have potential to be so far ahead.
Additional guidance here:
Basic - Don't convey essential info by sound alone
Basic - If using subtitles, make sure they're clearly formatted
Intermediate - Ensure subtitles for all speech
Intermediate - Ensure subtitles for other important background information
Intermediate - Allow subs to be turned on before the opening cinematic
Advanced - Cut down the wording of subs to an appropriate WPM for the reading speed of the audience
CNET ran a survey on how many people preferred to play with / without subtitles turned on, and 79% of respondents said they played with them turned on. The obvious conclusion is that subs should be turned on by default, but also, something that 79% of your players see throughout the entire game should be something that justifies significant effort/investment to get right.
It comes about for a lots of reasons, one being militant art directors who don't want subs/captions interfering with their UI, another being UI designers who are working on huge mac screens about 12 inches from their face.
But the thing is.. even the above isn't really a 'worst offender', it's a matter of preference. I saw at least one person in this thread saying that they prefer small subtle subtitles.
Which makes perfect sense. If you're using them just as an occasional quick reference to glance it if you miss a certain word, there would clearly be some people who would prefer them to be as unobtrusive as possible.
And on the other hand, people who have impaired hearing (or are playing on mute because the baby is asleep, etc etc) who completely rely on seeing every single word, they obviously need to be as clear and legible as possible. Especially if you're older (which we will all be eventually), and are likely to have mild-moderate hearing AND vision impairment.
There's a simple solution though, which would be to allow the formatting to be configurable. Choice of colour, font, size, and letterboxing/shadow.. all of those things would be pretty easy to do.
What would be even better would be if the device manufacturers were to store those preferences at a system level, with a handy API so that developers can access them, read back what that particular player's preferences are and apply them to the game.
And guess what. That's exactly what there is. Android, iOS and XB1 all have system settings for subtitle formatting, and an API for developer to access those settings through. For example...
(The PS4 has the same kind of settings, but they aren't available for game developers to use, they only apply to apps, blu-rays etc)
But despite these settings being freely available, no developer that I'm aware of has ever bothered making use of them. I haven't even come across any game that allows subtitle formatting to be customised in any way at all, despite it being standard practice in other forms of digital media.
So if you're looking for something to advocate for, something to let developers to know that they should be doing, this would be a very very good thing to concentrate on.
It's a real shame to see subtitles in such a poor state, so far behind other industries when really they have potential to be so far ahead.
Additional guidance here:
Basic - Don't convey essential info by sound alone
Basic - If using subtitles, make sure they're clearly formatted
Intermediate - Ensure subtitles for all speech
Intermediate - Ensure subtitles for other important background information
Intermediate - Allow subs to be turned on before the opening cinematic
Advanced - Cut down the wording of subs to an appropriate WPM for the reading speed of the audience
CNET ran a survey on how many people preferred to play with / without subtitles turned on, and 79% of respondents said they played with them turned on. The obvious conclusion is that subs should be turned on by default, but also, something that 79% of your players see throughout the entire game should be something that justifies significant effort/investment to get right.
Deaf Spacker
Memb
Bioshock Infinite pissed me off because the recordings didn't have subtitles but everything else did.
Other games can get it so wrong too.
Therefore I support this thread.
Other games can get it so wrong too.
Therefore I support this thread.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Fucking Dead Rising 1 in SD was the worst.
My experience with ME2.
I thought about this before, but it might be better of have a set of subtitles and then a set of closed captions. Until I thought about it I didn't consider how the two are different, but they are in the sense that closed captions clearly aims to capture as much sound as possible into text form, whereas subtitles largely serve to put spoken word into text form.
Obviously the most ideal approach is to have fully customizable subtitles/closed captions, but if that's not viable or is 'too much effort', having plain readable font size and font in two categories is sufficient.
TheSlySoul
Member
I will give Square-Enix credit in their subtitles are pretty decent.
However, I agree with the OP in lots of companies do it terrible. *Glares at Capcom*
However, I agree with the OP in lots of companies do it terrible. *Glares at Capcom*
Specially this! I played it before HD TVs were everywhere.
Ian
Member
Dead Rising was the reason I got my first HDTV.
I never really had any issues with subtitles last gen, probably because many games were 720p and I have a 46" 1080p tv, so the upscaling made it so that all was easy to read in the games I played, but now that more and more content is 1080p native, I've noticed the bad subtitling more and more. Dragon Age Inquisition is the worst offender for me so far. GTA V was pretty small too IIRC.
This is really unacceptable and should be a higher priority for devs.
This is really unacceptable and should be a higher priority for devs.
Freewheelin'
Member
I'm deaf, and I hate it when devs don't put subtitles in their games. Even in something like GTA, where I want to read what the NPCs say, but R* havent bothered to subtitle them. Really pisses me off
Silent_Ocarina
Member
Tomb Raider's subtitles are so fucking bad. I had to turn them off within five minutes of playing because I kept dying at a certain part before I realized the subtitles were covering the QTE button prompts.
SoulUnison
Banned
I HATE this. Give me a sentence at a time, and account for the way the lines are being delivered.
The worst is when they do it like that Bioshock pic in the OP where they throw small paragraphs at you.
Interferon
Member
Agreed, playing GTA V on my 32" 720p TV was a real pain because the text was so small. I often had to pause the game and go to Brief, which was a chore.
Hero Prinny
Member
playing dragon age 2 and yea the subtitles are extremely bad. its really tiny at the top of the screen.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Couldn't agree more with the OP. Devs, please learn how to do subtitles, or don't even bother.
This is one of the most annoying things there is.
This is one of the most annoying things there is.
hurricanes
Member
Agreed. And top screen sub should die in a fire.
While I wouldn't go that far, I still agree.
I still get annoyed when movies show subtitles over the image. When they're in 2.39:1. And there's limited screen real estate already. Put that sh*t UNDER the image, please.
Dreamwriter
Member
The worst I've seen is Final Fantasy XIV's dialogue text. It's tiny, and the higher the resolution of your screen, the smaller the text is. Everything else in the game can be scaled bigger or use larger fonts, but not the subtitles. I have a 40" 4k TV, and if I want to read the subtitles (and often non-voiced cutscenes), I have to lower the resolution to 1080p.
did they ever fix that? Always heard the game had good story, but i wouldn't know because i can't read shit at 1440p
Wolfgang Jr
Banned
Bayonetta 2's font is God awful.
Nothing1016
Member
All subtitles should be like the ones that Amazon offers on Instant Video. Best options ever.
Wolfgang Jr
Banned
jamesinclair
Banned
Why the fuck is there never a font size option?
It's fucking software
Especially with singing games.
Fuck you rock band, I want size 72 not 14
It's fucking software
Especially with singing games.
Fuck you rock band, I want size 72 not 14
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
What, you mean party banter? They do appear for party banter though???
I wouldn't argue with you about the size of the subtitle, however, hahaha. Mass Effect 2 had the some problem, IIRC.
jamesinclair
Banned
I'm deaf, and I hate it when devs don't put subtitles in their games. Even in something like GTA, where I want to read what the NPCs say, but R* havent bothered to subtitle them. Really pisses me off
I don't see why you couldn't file an ADA lawsuit and win some serious money.
Television and cinema don't offer closed captioning because they're nice, they do it due to accessibility law.
Stereogatari
Banned
The best subtitle font design I've ever seen that's for sure.
In fact the UI for that game in general is so clean and serene in looks and function, matched only by Persona 4 Golden.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Dude's face on the right is my exact expression when dealing with the constant dialogue pauses, glitches and freezes.
drotahorror
Member
Was just playin through Infamous First Light and the subs were something I noticed immediately. So tiny.
Americanmushroom
Banned
just played Infamous First Light yesterday. I lol'd so hard at the tinyness of the subs
DarkChronic
Member
Destiny: The thread!
Awful yellow, big block chunks of text. Absolutely terrible!
Awful yellow, big block chunks of text. Absolutely terrible!
ianhamilton-
Neo Member
None, absolutely zero. It's just time/cost, which is minuscule compared to pretty much everything else in a game.
It's more of a scheduling issue as it's often left to the last minute ,but there's nothing stopping you from planning ahead and building a decent system ready to drop the text into once it arrives.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
The worst I've seen is Final Fantasy XIV's dialogue text. It's tiny, and the higher the resolution of your screen, the smaller the text is. Everything else in the game can be scaled bigger or use larger fonts, but not the subtitles. I have a 40" 4k TV, and if I want to read the subtitles (and often non-voiced cutscenes), I have to lower the resolution to 1080p.
This too. if you port a PC game to consoles, adjust the UI accordingly.
Infernal Monkey
Member
Destiny's annoy me because they're yellow.
Holy shit, that's terrible. And they're tiny, too. What a combo.
ianhamilton-
Neo Member
Games are not covered by the same laws. The only way they're covered is online games, where their primary use is communication rather than gameplay, in which case they come under the FCC's juristiction.. somewhat predictably the games industry played for a waiver on the law when it came into effect, which they managed to get based on the dev lifecycle time of games. That waiver is due to expire in 2015 though, so interesting times ahead.
TC McQueen
Member
Yeah, I've faced this issue playing PC games on 32in 1080p HDTV. If I'm sitting 2-4 feet away from the screen, text is totally readable, but at like 10+ feet (like when I'm in my bed), text would unreadable. I've also got a 40in 1080p TV in my loft and the text is pretty small when you're sitting on the couch 10+ feet away.
The_Clansman
Banned
I agree, so far every game I played on the Xbox One has reaally tiny subtitles, I mean Halo 4 is almost unreadable, same with Alien Isolation.
Having this problem with an SD TV last generation just make it that you couldn't read, it was impossible.
Having this problem with an SD TV last generation just make it that you couldn't read, it was impossible.
bobawesome
Member
firebranded
Member
Thought it was just me lol, I agree much needs to be learned and as a hearing impaired gamer I hope it's sooner rather than later.
Astral Dog
Member
These are Mature games for Mature people Mature people dont need big white kiddy letters like Kingdom Hearts to read subtitles.
which is weird because eye sight gets worst with age
And are the game developers even responsible for subs? Aren't they usually outsourced?
Astral Dog
Member
which is weird because eye sight gets worst with age
And are the game developers even responsible for subs? Aren't they usually outsourced?
I could only find this article, wich implies most of them are.
Intersting Article about videogame subtitles.
Femmeworth
Banned
Preach it. The lack of options is pitiful. I don't know how feasible it would be but having subtitles built into the OS (talking about consoles) makes sense to me.
Deyjandi_Von
Member
I've always wondered why you sometimes see subtitled sentences in films/TV shows that don't 100% match what's been said, and now I know.
Really interesting, thanks for the explanation.
I want to slap the person at Sentai who decided to make subtitles GREEN when a second person is talk. Like holy crap, it just looks terrible.
Not sure if these count , but games like Persona 4/Arena, which has a stronger focus on dialogue boxes, have very nice size text.
Big font with a background to make it easier to read. Though granted, with these types of games with a huge focus on dialogue/text, they probably spend a good amount of time making sure that you can read the text as well.