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Deep Down, Sales, current stable of IP, and Where Capcom Goes from Here

C

CrimsonCrescendo

Banned
We've all seen the gifs (well, at least some of us have), coming out in mid 2013

2430404-3729539862-iWUhy.gif

2enpmv.gif

334001f9_ibjxCz37mFXzrX.gif


Capcom's new IP, baby! Coming out on next gen consoles PS4 and Xbone!

Only, that was 2013. It's now going on late 2017 and we haven't heard a word about it or the sparkling new engine Panta Rhei in years.

Last I remember hearing from it, Ono gave some weird statement about having to last 15 years back in February 2015:

”[Deep Down] is a title that has to be able to compete for the next 15 years or so, so from a graphics standpoint we can't release it as it is now, saying that it's the best there is."
Click to expand...

It's pretty apparent that both Deep Down and Panta Rhei are DOA at this point.



There was also a recent thread I made with the article from US Gamer


The issue is the company's marquee titles haven't set the world of fire for a few years now. Street Fighter V continues to limp along following troubled launch. The game can cause hype at EVO, but it's only sold 1.7 million copies to date. SF5 reached 1.6 million in sales in May, meaning it sold 100,000 copies in total. Worse, this means the game has only sold 300,000 units since May of 2016. Capcom's original estimate back in 2014 for SF5 sales was 2 million, and the game is still limping towards that target. 1

Resident Evil 7 Biohazard was another major title that was supposed to break out for Capcom, but the game has only 3.7 million copies sold. That's good, but below expectations. Capcom wanted to sell 4 million copies of Resident Evil 7 by the end of the last fiscal year on March 31, 2017, but it's only within spitting distance as of June. Resident Evil 7's pace is similar to Street Fighter V's: it had sold 3.5 million copies as of March, meaning it only sold 200,000 units in three months.
Click to expand...

Basically:

Resident Evil 7 was supposed to sell 4 million in three months. It sold 3.5, and then managed to only sell 200K after that.

Street Fighter was supposed to sell 2 million in it's opening months, but has still only sold 1.7 million a year and a half later.

Dead Rising 4 was supposed to sell 2 million, but sold under a million and still hasn't breached the million mark. It's most likely dead in it's current state.


Basically, Capcom is running out of their current stable of IP. They have Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Street Fighter, Marvel Vs. Capcom, Sengoku Basara, and Ace Attorney. Devil May Cry has been MIA for quite a while, Dead Rising is probably dead in it's current form, Onimusha hasn't had a new game in over a decade, Dino Crisis is post-crisis at this point, Mega Man hasn't had a game in a long while and they haven't really even used the brand in quite a while, Lost Planet is lost, Viewtiful Joe isn't getting anything, Final Fight had it's finale, Darkstalkers was never truly alive, and Breath of Fire... got Breath of Fire 6. On top of that, their initiatives to either expand (DmC), relaunch (Bionic Commando and Strider), or launch new franchises (Dark Void, Dragon's Dogma, Ghost Trick) have all proved less than fruitful.


So Capcom has been having a bit of a rough patch. So I just wanted to have a discussion of where Capcom can go from here.


Keep in mind:

-Capcom is not in danger of going out of business for the forseeable future.

-Capcom is not "doing horribly". This thread is about their past few years of disappointing developments.

-Please refrain from "If they would just invest in X franchise all their issues would go away". If it were that easy, this thread would just be called "Fucking make Devil May Cry 5 already, you goddamn clods!"



To me, Capcom needs to refocus and decide where they want their company to go in the future. They've talked about "Games as a service", yet haven't done anything like a Mercenaries stand alone titles which would fit the bill perfectly. Capcom wants to succeed in mobile gaming but they don't have a single Resident Evil mobile title. A lot of the time it just seems like they talk about stuff they'd like to do without any thought as to how they're going to do it.
 
…

……forgetit

Member
I don't think deep down is actually happening, most of it's work will probably be rolled into other games.

Panta Rhei isn't happening and they'd be insane to even try to release it. Their are tons of ubiquitous engines out their for them to use and they aren't that expensive to license. Also if Monster Hunter is anything to go by, MT framework is still holding up well.
 
Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

Member
There has to be someone out there that know the story behind what happened. It was playable and Capcom has a bad habit of saying if something it actually cancelled outside like MML3.

My guess is the project was just a mess and they ditched it. With capcom using RE engine,UE4, and MT framework. Phanta Rhei sure didn't become their in-house engine across the board like they planned. Hell its probably the reason we basically had to wait 4 years for RE7.
 
F

Fiendcode

Member
Sengoku Basara is basically dead too now. Maybe it wouldn't be if Capcom had also transitioned it to 3DS/Vita rather than sticking with just PS3/PS4. I guess Koei gets the last laugh.

Monster Hunter World will be interesting to watch. From a Japan heavy consistent 4m+ handheld seller to a console/PC global focused transition. MH was Capcom's golden goose for the past 7 years and they're sort of risking it all now.
 
M

Maligna

Banned
May need to pull an Ubisoft and invest in bunch of new IP's in the genre of open world, third person shooters.
 
B

bizzarewars

Banned
I remember hearing that it was going to be free to play the last time I heard about it. Or maybe I'm remembering things wrong?
 
J

Jack The Nipper

Banned
They have changed the game play and style too often.

Simply put, thier games just aren't as good as before and have sold less. Not that a bad or worse game can't sell more, happens a lot.

As a street fighter, Dmc, resident evil fan. I simply like the older games more
 
Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

Member
As for the rest of their catalog they need to start dipping into them with new experiences. A lot of their old IPs are a gold mine and effectively new IPs since they've been dormant so long.

Capcom just needs to find their footing and accept their a A studio and not a AAA studio no matter how much they want to change that.

They need to start moving more to be like Square. Have your tent poles but also a lot of smaller stuff that'll pull a profit and fanbase.
 
R

robotzombie

Member
We're basically just seeing the end result of years of terrible executives making bad decisions all while treating the talent like garbage to the point where most left, leaving a wake of amazing properties and not enough good people to make anything out of them, if they even get a chance to because of said executive decisions.

The biggest disaster being a Japanese company known for excellent gameplay in a diverse array of genres throwing all of their properties over to mediocre western developers in order to try and transform series like Devil May Cry and Lost Planet into fucking Rockstar sales.

Top that off with their weird sales over-estimates constantly making them look foolish and Street Fighter 5 being rushed out too early (and people who probably don't even care about the series to begin with making it out to be the worst video game of all time) and we are in the weird state we are now. A company with incredible properties beaten down by bad corporate decisions, bleeding talent, and doing every possible thing to make people think of them less and less positively.
 
Z

Zukkoyaki

Member
Jawmuncher said:
Capcom just needs to find their footing and accept their a A studio and not a AAA studio no matter how much they want to change that.
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Reign in the scope and budget of their games while focusing on the core design. Resident Evil 7 was a good step in this direction.
 
K

Kenzodielocke

Banned
Deep Down is dead. I think the only way it's not dead is, if some of the work has gone in another, new IP.

F2P games ain't cutting it. Well, most of them, don't.
 
J

jackal27

Banned
Jawmuncher said:
As for the rest of their catalog they need to start dipping into them with new experiences. A lot of their old IPs are a gold mine and effectively new IPs since they've been dormant so long.

Capcom just needs to find their footing and accept their a A studio and not a AAA studio no matter how much they want to change that.

They need to start moving more to be like Square. Have your tent poles but also a lot of smaller stuff that'll pull a profit and fanbase.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Pull it back boys. I think they also mismanaged many of their franchises for so long that they're going to have to put the work in to win back some good will and trust from consumers.

It also seems like as soon as they have a success, they kind of screw that up right after.
 
G

Gartooth

Member
They need to invest more into polishing their games. Street Fighter V felt like an early access game and MvCI doesn't look to be shaping up any differently. The games (at least the fighting ones) feel very cheap compared to the current market leaders yet Capcom wants these games to support service models. If they aren't high quality products on day 1 then they won't keep an audience to keep them at the top on day 100.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Ethelwulf said:
Is the last gift in-engine? There is clipping in the left shoulder...
Click to expand...
A common misconception is that CGI movies can't have any sort of clipping, that's simply not true. Any form of 3D rendering can have clipping, not just video games, the reason movies don't is because they give the most talented animators a metric fuck ton of time to animate and polish any inconsistencies, same reason why you so rarely see clipping in ND's cutscenes. But yes, everything was rendered with Panta Rhei.

Collateral22 said:
The more I look at the gifs of Deep Down the more unrealistic the chances of it ever existing are
Click to expand...
And they wanted this to be 60fps with 4 player co-op. >>
 
A

Akainu

Member
Fiendcode said:
Sengoku Basara is basically dead too now. Maybe it wouldn't be if Capcom had also transitioned it to 3DS/Vita rather than sticking with just PS3/PS4. I guess Koei gets the last laugh.
Click to expand...
Does it annoy anyone else that they turned a person into a gundam, gender flipped another person, but somehow we never got Yasuke?
 
F

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
I seriously don't know what to think of capcom, they basically had guaranteed sales for MH portable, now the next mainline one isn't on any kind of portable without even giving a hint towards a switch version, they are taking probably their most riskiest venture by far
 
Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

Member
Gartooth said:
They need to invest more into polishing their games. Street Fighter V felt like an early access game and MvCI doesn't look to be shaping up any differently. The games (at least the fighting ones) feel very cheap compared to the current market leaders yet Capcom wants these games to support service models. If they aren't high quality products on day 1 then they won't keep an audience to keep them at the top on day 100.
Click to expand...

Yeah as of late capcom has had a bad habit of "wanting AAA success" without putting a AAA quality effort.
 
P

PantsuJo

Member
I think MHW will sell well... And RE2 Remake too.

For the rest... I don't know. They seems out if options. They burned all the chances they have.
 
N

NintendosBooger

Member
Capcom is too top heavy, like the guy in the gym who doesn't work leg days. They've got their stars at the top but nothing on the A level to support and sustain the continued production of those games and so they're expected to support themselves commercially which they lately haven't been.
 
U

UnemployedVillain

Member
-Capcom is not "doing horribly". This thread is about their past few years of disappointing developments.
Click to expand...

If they're consistently under performing and not meeting your sales targets, then even if they're profiting, they're not doing well.
 
S

Skyo

Member
Due to previous games failing the free to play model on PS, they may be rethinking on a way to bring this out successfully. It was probably free to play due to the content being thin on release and expanding later on with micro transactions.

I would hope they release this as a full on title. It has some cool concepts. BELIEVE
 
R

RichiRamjag

Member
jackal27 said:
Absolutely. Pull it back boys. I think they also mismanaged many of their franchises for so long that they're going to have to put the work in to win back some good will and trust from consumers.

It also seems like as soon as they have a success, they kind of screw that up right after.
Click to expand...

I don't trust them as a company personally. They mishandle their franchises so badly. Mega man, dead rising, etc. They keep trying to reinvent the wheel and you never know what you're going to get from one game to the next. Then you've got the monster hunter switch situation as well in NA. You never know where the next game is going to end up, so it's hard to feel invested for me.
 
S

Sesha

Member
CrimsonCrescendo said:
Devil May Cry has been MIA for quite a while
Click to expand...

DMC had two releases just two years ago, though. 4SE was in the works for 1.5 years, started developed not to long after DmC, and added quite a bit of content, including more story, so I think it's fair to consider it a proper release. Since Itsuno is the only shepherd the series has, there's no DMC if he's working on one.

And comparing to other Capcom franchises, Dead Rising went 2.5 years between 3 and 4 with nary a word. Since it's been two years since DMC4SE, I think it's premature to declare anything just yet.

Anyway, Capcom struggles quite a bit with leveraging their IPs. They're not effective with launching spin-offs or mobile games off of their flagship IPs, like you said, unlike what companies like Nintendo and Square Enix have done with theirs. Meanwhile, Capcom invested in Breath of Fire 6, a browser townbuilding RPG sequel that's 13 years too late. Which underperformed, predictably. Speaking of Breath of Fire, they never attempted a second game on PS2, and never trying making entries on handhelds either.

The lack of even attempted spin-offs of major IPs of franchises like DMC, or obvious fits for other IPs like RE with, say, Mercenaries Online, Mercenaries HD, or a Mercenaries tactics game ala X-Com, is quite curious. Capcom has enough beloved IPs to even attempt MOBAs or similar titles, although the market is quite crowded atm.
Speaking of MOBAs, they haven't attempted to seriously tackle popular genres like online shooters. They've made an open-world RPG in Dragon's Dogma, which didn't do too hot-

There's a lot Capcom could do, but so far they're not doing it. They've done reboots, revivals and predictable sequels, but so far little has succeeded, like you said.

I think their biggest challenge so far, the one that's most important for their bottom line, is mobile. They need to take it way more seriously than they have. No one wants mobile games of niche franchises like Breath of Fire. Neither fans nor mobile consumers.

Fiendcode said:
Sengoku Basara is basically dead too now. Maybe it wouldn't be if Capcom had also transitioned it to 3DS/Vita rather than sticking with just PS3/PS4. I guess Koei gets the last laugh.

Monster Hunter World will be interesting to watch. From a Japan heavy consistent 4m+ handheld seller to a console/PC global focused transition. MH was Capcom's golden goose for the past 7 years and they're sort of risking it all now.
Click to expand...

SB got a release just last year. It's been almost yearly. This year is the first year without a SB release since 2013. Before that we had 3 and Utage in 2010 and 2011. They're probably working on 5.
 
A

Aters

Member
CrimsonCrescendo said:
To me, Capcom needs to refocus and decide where they want their company to go in the future. They've talked about "Games as a service", yet haven't done anything like a Mercenaries stand alone titles which would fit the bill perfectly. Capcom wants to succeed in mobile gaming but they don't have a single Resident Evil mobile title. A lot of the time it just seems like they talk about stuff they'd like to do without any thought as to how they're going to do it.
Click to expand...

Umbrella Corps though
 
Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

Member
Aters said:
Umbrella Corps though
Click to expand...

Lol that isn't even close. It was a budget MP title that tried to be fucking exports despite being janky as hell. That coming from someone who put a decent amount of time into it.

I guess it fits as a GaaS title. But it's basically a "What not to do" when it comes to quality. The DLC being free was nice though. Mercenaries it was not though.
 
C

CrimsonCrescendo

Banned
cyberevan said:
I think Capcom released a condensed port of Resident Evil 4 for iOS.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I'm talking about something like Fire Emblem Heroes ($115 million in 6 months), Pokemon Go (over $1.2 billion), etc. Something that actually leverages the IP, is made specifically for mobile, and is actually interesting to players. Will RE make billions? Probably not. But is mobile port of RE 4 is the best they can do?


Aters said:
Umbrella Corps though
Click to expand...

And like Jawmuncher just said: It's "what not to do" when it comes to quality "Games as a Service".
 
D

DeuceGamer

Member
Jawmuncher said:
As for the rest of their catalog they need to start dipping into them with new experiences. A lot of their old IPs are a gold mine and effectively new IPs since they've been dormant so long.

Capcom just needs to find their footing and accept their a A studio and not a AAA studio no matter how much they want to change that.

They need to start moving more to be like Square. Have your tent poles but also a lot of smaller stuff that'll pull a profit and fanbase.
Click to expand...

I think this sounds about right. Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, etc... have done fine, but they don't seem to want to release anything smaller. For example why not release a 2D Mega Man. I think it should be profitable without a huge AAA budget.

Instead of releasing titles that could make a consistent profit they seem to want to chase hone runs only.
 
J

JaffeLion

Banned
damn, I remember the pre-PS4 launch.. everyone was hyping this game so MUCH and was like THIS IS THE REASON TO GET A PS4... lol look what happened 😂
 
Y

Yearsoflurking

Member
Street Fighter was supposed to sell 2 million in it's opening months, but has still only sold 1.7 million a year and a half later.
Click to expand...

Rip to a historic franchise that was treated like garbage for a quick release and exclusivity shame.
 
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