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[taybul]

Ok, I finally found that that missing detail that was confusing me about why people were pursuing higher breakpoints.

From the "Tao of Sentries" thread:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12945884471#1

Min APS - Max APS - Sentry FPA - Sentry APS
0.98182 - 1.10204 - 54         - 1.1
1.10205 - 1.25581 - 48         - 1.25
1.25582 - 1.45945 - 42         - 1.42857
1.45946 - 1.74193 - 36         - 1.66666
1.74194 - 2.16    - 30         - 2.0
2.16001 - 2.84210 - 24         - 2.5
2.84211 - 4.15385 - 18         - 3.33333
4.15386 - Cap     - 12         - 5

The measured sentry attacks per second you get from your "pet APS" (char sheet APS x T&T bonus) starts at about 1.10x for the lowest breakpoint and increases to about 1.20x at the 4.15 breakpoint.

It still seems like a very minor difference to me. If there were two characters with identical sheet DPS, both using only Elemental Arrow, but one character got there with 2.843 pet APS while the other got there with 4.154 pet APS, the higher breakpoint character would see less than 5% more DPS from their sentries. If it's actually making a bigger observed difference in practice for those two scenarios, I must still be missing something.

Edit: Here's a chart to try to show what I'm talking about here.

Sheet DPS - Sheet APS - (damage)    - T&T - Pet APS - Real sentry APS - Sentry DPS (damage x real sentry APS)
1000000   - 1.89474   - 527776.8981 - 1.5 - 2.84211 - 3.33333         - 1759254.568
1000000   - 2.76924   - 361109.9074 - 1.5 - 4.15386 - 5               - 1805549.537
          - 1.46x     -             -     - 1.46x   - 1.50x           - 1.0263x

Why are you factoring in Sheet APS into Sentry DPS (Sheet DPS * Sheet APS * Sentry APS)? Sheet APS shouldn't factor into this number since that only determines the Sentry APS, which is a set number for a given range (hence "breakpoint"). I think Sentry DPS should really just be (Sheet DPS * Sentry APS).

Put another way:

1.89474 <= Sheet APS < 2.76924 ==> 3.33 sentry APS
>=2.76924 Sheet APS ==> 5 sentry APS

Sentry APS is discrete compared to Sheet APS.

 

[Ayumi]

Man, it's nice having regular friends in the game who play in the same timezone as you. The game is often very lonely for me and I'm so happy whenever someone has time to play&#9734;

 

[Raticus79]

(Sentry DPS stuff)

Yup, I know. I know things get lost in translation since you can't see the formulas there - I'll see if I can explain my thinking a bit better.

The scenario is two characters who have the same sheet DPS, but different attack speeds which, when a Tasker and Theo's 50% boost is applied, happen to fall exactly on the breakpoints for those discrete sentry attack rates. That way there's no wasted attack speed.

I divided the breakpoints by 1.5 to get the required sheet APS.

SlowChar: to hit 2.842 pet APS with 50% T&T, need 1.894 sheet APS.
FastChar: to hit 4.153 pet APS with 50% T&T, need 2.769 sheet APS.

Starting with 1 million sheet DPS, I divide by that character's sheet APS to get the abstract "damage" which represents the combination of weapon damage, crit stats and other non-attack-speed elements.

SlowChar: 1000000/1.894 = 527776 per attack
FastChar: 1000000/2.769 = 361109 per attack

Then, for the final sentry output, damage per attack * real sentry attack rate:

SlowChar: 527776 x 3.333 = 1759254
FastChar: 361109 x 5.000 = 1805549 (about 2.5% higher)

The only reason I can do this is because in my example the character's attack speed makes them fall exactly on those breakpoints.

There are quite a few tradeoffs players have to make in getting from the 2.842 to 4.153 breakpoint, so I'm trying to get a better idea of what the payoff is. For the Ball Lightning build, it seems like a player could do just as well at 2.842. They'd lose on being able to spawn the Helltrapper sentries as quickly or generate discipline with lower attack speed, but maybe it would work out better to devote those attack speed affixes to balance the player's other stats.

 

[Ayumi]

Are chest pieces the hardest to obtain from Kadala? Been trying to complete a Firebird set even though I've got 5/6 and a RORG.

Feels like the other set pieces are just easier to obtain from her.

Not really? I get Firebird's more often from her than as random drops. Once I started collecting them, I obtained my set quite fast. Surely other sets are easier (Vyr's, Tal's, Blackthrone) but Firebird's isn't too rare, just a bit more rare than the super generic set items.

 

[StMeph]

There are quite a few tradeoffs players have to make in getting from the 2.842 to 4.153 breakpoint, so I'm trying to get a better idea of what the payoff is. For the Ball Lightning build, it seems like a player could do just as well at 2.842. They'd lose on being able to spawn the Helltrapper sentries as quickly or generate discipline with lower attack speed, but maybe it would work out better to devote those attack speed affixes to balance the player's other stats.

That might be a little too loose with the assumptions, as you're basically holding sheet DPS steady between the two, basically sacrificing a large share of DPS for IAS to meet the breakpoint. That's one extreme end of the scale, and even then, there are some small gains (2.5%). The opposite extreme end would be gaining IAS at the expense of no DPS stats, which would also bring significant gains to the next breakpoint level (50%).

The truth is somewhere in between 2.5% and 50%, based on how many DPS stats are being sacrificed in exchange for IAS.

 

[Raticus79]

Yeah, trying to do any sort of accurate analysis on this stuff gets super complex, so the scenario's an idealized one.

In my case, I think I'll drop down from 4.15 to 2.84 and make up the difference with crit stats and elemental damage. It gives me a lot more flexibility in my gear choices and I won't bog down the server as much in group games.

---

Random interesting thread of the day:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12187048616

Sticky on the wizard forum with details for procs. Ess of Johan has a 20 second internal cooldown and none are affected by CDR.

 

[taybul]

One other thing to note is that a lot of people use the Gorgok (sp?) gem with this build since it's basically up all the time (the hits have to come from you though, so from BL). This means you have a bit of wiggle room for your own IAS since the gem gives you +15% max. Also another nice thing is that when you set a sentry it snapshots your current IAS (but not damage) so even if your gem stack falls off, it'll still fire at the IAS you set it at.

edit: apparently not:

It's commonly repeated that sentry APS is fixed until a standard bolt is fired, and doesn't change if you have EA or Chakram equipped. Other people say it's dynamic.

So, to straighten that out, I just tried it with ball lightning by taking off T&T to drop my breakpoint while a single sentry is spawned. I can see it change to firing more slowly, then it speeds up again when I put T&T back on. That's good news for Gogok.

 

[mercviper]

One other thing to note is that a lot of people use the Gorgok (sp?) gem with this build since it's basically up all the time (the hits have to come from you though, so from BL). This means you have a bit of wiggle room for your own IAS since the gem gives you +15% max. Also another nice thing is that when you set a sentry it snapshots your current IAS (but not damage) so even if your gem stack falls off, it'll still fire at the IAS you set it at.

I thought sentries didn't snapshot IAS anymore and update when they fire?

Edit: yeah I haven't found anything relating to sentries snapshotting ias, since it updates to your ias after every fired bolt.

 

[DD-11]

Found a maximums for my fire barb and wondering what to roll off:

+1186-1502 Fire Damage
+15% Fire Skill Damage
+6% Damage
+952 strength

 

[Raticus79]

I thought sentries didn't snapshot IAS anymore and update when they fire?

Edit: yeah I haven't found anything relating to sentries snapshotting ias, since it updates to your ias after every fired bolt.

It's commonly repeated that sentry APS is fixed until a standard bolt is fired, and doesn't change if you have EA or Chakram equipped. Other people say it's dynamic.

So, to straighten that out, I just tried it with ball lightning by taking off T&T to drop my breakpoint while a single sentry is spawned. I can see it change to firing more slowly, then it speeds up again when I put T&T back on. That's good news for Gogok.

 

[taybul]

It's commonly repeated that sentry APS is fixed until a standard bolt is fired, and doesn't change if you have EA or Chakram equipped. Other people say it's dynamic.

So, to straighten that out, I just tried it with ball lightning by taking off T&T to drop my breakpoint while a single sentry is spawned. I can see it change to firing more slowly, then it speeds up again when I put T&T back on. That's good news for Gogok.

Ah, good to know. Thought I read that it did from someone who did extensive testing with Gogok.

 

[Insaniac]

Found a maximums for my fire barb and wondering what to roll off:

+1186-1502 Fire Damage
+15% Fire Skill Damage
+6% Damage
+952 strength

unfortunately all the stats on that Maximus are pretty poor, so I wouldn't waste a Gift on it. If you do want to use a gift, I think your best bet is to rereoll for higher base damage.

If you don't want to use a gift, but still want to use it temporarily, then i guess roll off the strength for a socket?

 

[Raticus79]

unfortunately all the stats on that Maximus are pretty poor, so I wouldn't waste a Gift on it. If you do want to use a gift, I think your best bet is to rereoll for higher base damage.

If you don't want to use a gift, but still want to use it temporarily, then i guess roll off the strength for a socket?

I'd keep the strength and reroll the 6% damage. That's probably more than 6% strength there and strength=armour too.

Ah, good to know. Thought I read that it did from someone who did extensive testing with Gogok.

Yeah, me too. Maybe it changed with the latest patch.

---

I was playing around with immolation arrow and the Smite gem last night. What a badass-looking build, lol. 5 flaming skulls per sentry per second working through the pack like a mining laser, instant target changes, smite beams raining down... shame the ball lightning is so much more effective or I'd run that instead.

 

[mercviper]

It's commonly repeated that sentry APS is fixed until a standard bolt is fired, and doesn't change if you have EA or Chakram equipped. Other people say it's dynamic.

So, to straighten that out, I just tried it with ball lightning by taking off T&T to drop my breakpoint while a single sentry is spawned. I can see it change to firing more slowly, then it speeds up again when I put T&T back on. That's good news for Gogok.

Oh okay cool. I misread the update mechanic as all bolts instead of normal.

Thanks for clarification. ;D

 

[Ayumi]

Just posting here to say:

Bawwww I wish I had a SoJ, it never drops! Why am I so unlucky, this game sucks, baww. I spent a billion shards and 50 million rifts but no SoJ.. Blizzard, whyyy, I've played your games since the 90s!

Spoiler

Since it has been almost proved that complaining here works.. I'll do it for a new SoJ like I did with my Furnace.

 

[Krassus]

Lets try in numbers Ayumi, it really did work for Furnaces =p

SoJ with Phys + CD and a socket wont drop for me =(((

 

[Celegus]

Lets try in numbers Ayumi, it really did work for Furnaces =p

SoJ with Phys + CD and a socket wont drop for me =(((

I've found one SoJ since I switched to Stampede build, hoping for a physical (or holy) one. It was intelligence. Been dumping shard after shard into rings and just getting a giant pile of Krede's Flames. And still no Unity!

 

[joesmokey]

I'd love a Furnace that would let me reroll the dmg elemental to non-Fire. I'm just greedy now...

 

[TheContact]

Whenever I go to search for a game, most of the time there are 0 players playing, no matter what difficulty I choose. Sometimes I'll see a game with 1 or 2 people in, but is this common to not see games with players in them? I just want to play with other people

 

[Raticus79]

Whenever I go to search for a game, most of the time there are 0 players playing, no matter what difficulty I choose. Sometimes I'll see a game with 1 or 2 people in, but is this common to not see games with players in them? I just want to play with other people

Public T6 rift games are great for slower times. On seasons (Americas) there are usually at least 400 people playing. Which region are you on?

 

[Bombless]

With the new WiiU, Hyrule Warriors and Bayonetta arriving next week, my D3 playtime dropped to zero. I guess I'm done with the game for a while. Looking forward to the panel at Blizzcon though.

 

[Lain]

Just posting here to say:

Bawwww I wish I had a SoJ, it never drops! Why am I so unlucky, this game sucks, baww. I spent a billion shards and 50 million rifts but no SoJ.. Blizzard, whyyy, I've played your games since the 90s!

Spoiler

Since it has been almost proved that complaining here works.. I'll do it for a new SoJ like I did with my Furnace.

Fire SoJ is turning out to be my new nemesis after Unity. I just can't get one. I have multiple cold, some arcane, lightning, even physical but Fire? Nope, it just won't show its ugly mug.

 

[Ayumi]

Lets try in numbers Ayumi, it really did work for Furnaces =p

SoJ with Phys + CD and a socket wont drop for me =(((

Thank you! I hope this works..

I've found one SoJ since I switched to Stampede build, hoping for a physical (or holy) one. It was intelligence. Been dumping shard after shard into rings and just getting a giant pile of Krede's Flames. And still no Unity!

I got a SoJ before but it was sooo bad. No way I'm gonna sacrifice almost 20% dmg for that. Really need a good one.. I actually got a near perfect Unity, of all things. And I had one already with dex which I put on my follower. Broke my Tier record after putting it on, and the greater rift was even super bad.

I'd love a Furnace that would let me reroll the dmg elemental to non-Fire. I'm just greedy now...

Right? Is it bad for us to want this much? Haha. Would love a second furnace.. With much better rolls.

Whenever I go to search for a game, most of the time there are 0 players playing, no matter what difficulty I choose. Sometimes I'll see a game with 1 or 2 people in, but is this common to not see games with players in them? I just want to play with other people

Most people are playing in private games by default now a days.. I guess it's because they use various communities to find groups doing the things they want (bounties, keywarden, etc). Are you on US? You're free to add me! But my timezone will probably crash with yours since I live in Asia. :<

 

[TheContact]

Public T6 rift games are great for slower times. On seasons (Americas) there are usually at least 400 people playing. Which region are you on?

I'm on Americas. My highest is 65 but I cycle through my different leveled alts, all the difficulties, and game modes, and I'm lucky if I find a game with 1 or 2 people in it out of all that. I feel like something is wrong with my game because there should be people playing.

 

[ZenaxPure]

I'm on Americas. My highest is 65 but I cycle through my different leveled alts, all the difficulties, and game modes, and I'm lucky if I find a game with 1 or 2 people in it out of all that. I feel like something is wrong with my game because there should be people playing.

Basically no one playing under level 70 unless it is a different character, if it is a different character they are probably getting power leveled or using reduced level gear to power level themselves. It takes less than 10 hours to reach level 70 even when you are starting fresh, so it's not a place to find people. And yeah, lots of people (i'm going to guess the vast majority) play with their games set to private.

 

[taybul]

I was playing around with immolation arrow and the Smite gem last night. What a badass-looking build, lol. 5 flaming skulls per sentry per second working through the pack like a mining laser, instant target changes, smite beams raining down... shame the ball lightning is so much more effective or I'd run that instead.

That sounds awesome. I really felt that the smite gem was really under appreciated. I know DHs aren't gonna run to the hills for a holy build but even just a critted smite from a level 0 gem for me was 32M+. Not sure if there's an internal cooldown but given how often a slow-ball hits I'd imagine it would fit nicely with the build.

 

[Raticus79]

That sounds awesome. I really felt that the smite gem was really under appreciated. I know DHs aren't gonna run to the hills for a holy build but even just a critted smite from a level 0 gem for me was 32M+. Not sure if there's an internal cooldown but given how often a slow-ball hits I'd imagine it would fit nicely with the build.

There's no internal cooldown on it. Unfortunately, ball lightning seems to have a low proc ratio for this purpose, even though it works so well for nightstalker (must be a separate coefficient somewhere). Try it out with immolation arrow instead of ball lightning sometime. Even with meticulous bolts, immolation arrow procs it about 3 times faster.

Something to keep in mind if they come up with a legendary for immolation arrow sometime I guess. Could be fun with a Kridershot if I ever get one, but I doubt it would be better than the early bonus sentries from Helltrapper.

Ahem. "Boohoo, why I haven't gotten a Kridershot yet, I'm over p300 on my seasonal DH", etc. (I'm actually gambling for a witching hour right now, but you know, aim high)

I'm on Americas. My highest is 65 but I cycle through my different leveled alts, all the difficulties, and game modes, and I'm lucky if I find a game with 1 or 2 people in it out of all that. I feel like something is wrong with my game because there should be people playing.

Basically no one playing under level 70 unless it is a different character, if it is a different character they are probably getting power leveled or using reduced level gear to power level themselves. It takes less than 10 hours to reach level 70 even when you are starting fresh, so it's not a place to find people. And yeah, lots of people (i'm going to guess the vast majority) play with their games set to private.

Yeah, sub-70 is dead. Just search for the GAF community and join that. You can catch up to 70 in one rift run, takes like 10 minutes.

 

[ZenaxPure]

Ahem. "Boohoo, why I haven't gotten a Kridershot yet, I'm over p300 on my seasonal DH", etc. (I'm actually gambling for a witching hour right now, but you know, aim high).

Good idea, I'm level 450 on seasons and haven't seen a witching hour yet, BLIZZARD PLS HOW ELSE WILL I WIN AT THE GAME AND STUFF.

 

[Radec]

haven't played in a while, any new huge patches last 2-3 weeks ?

 

[Celegus]

I've found one SoJ since I switched to Stampede build, hoping for a physical (or holy) one. It was intelligence. Been dumping shard after shard into rings and just getting a giant pile of Krede's Flames. And still no Unity!

Finally found a Unity on my barb!

Spoiler

It was dex.

 

[Frant1ck]

Finally found a Unity on my barb!

Spoiler

It was dex.

What ?!?! You cant be serious?

Spoiler

im not laughing

 

[NoHeDidn't]

Guys I have some spare Akhan stuff I think chest,helm,shoulders and maybe a boot for anyone that needs a piece or two.Also the wifey has some Firebird spares if anyone needs and I believe I have two spare RoRGs in chest.Weapons I have a spare Darklight and spare Jankenbord shield and what the hell a Gryfalfcon Foote to go along with it.

Psn-Legendkilla3rd.....Message me on psn first come first serve.If anyone has a spare FoTF I'll take it or Cindercoat for Wizard.

 

[Shifty76]

Someone mentioned fire SoJ? My DH loves his http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Shifty76-1953/hero/23386971

Funnily enough it dropped 10 mins after I spent a ton of gems rolling a socket on my lvl 66 fire one.

 

[Ayumi]

Guys I have some spare Akhan stuff I think chest,helm,shoulders and maybe a boot for anyone that needs a piece or two.Also the wifey has some Firebird spares if anyone needs and I believe I have two spare RoRGs in chest.Weapons I have a spare Darklight and spare Jankenbord shield and what the hell a Gryfalfcon Foote to go along with it.

Psn-Legendkilla3rd.....Message me on psn first come first serve.If anyone has a spare FoTF I'll take it or Cindercoat for Wizard.

Hi there!

This thread is for the PC version, but you can find the console version here:
http://neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=872639

 

[Shifty76]

Recorded a vid of my T6 Sunwuko speedrun set that I use for bounties/rifts if anyone is interested:

http://youtu.be/03Hq2-IWI_s

Profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/shifty76-1953/

Wreath of Lightning is ONLY used for the movespeed - dps sucks on it.

 

[ZenaxPure]

Good idea, I'm level 450 on seasons and haven't seen a witching hour yet, BLIZZARD PLS HOW ELSE WILL I WIN AT THE GAME AND STUFF.

Well fuck me. Didn't even take a day for GAF bitching to work its magic again.

It was even cool enough to roll a secondary resist for Harmony.

 

[Gromph]

Well fuck me. Didn't even take a day for GAF bitching to work its magic again.

It was even cool enough to roll a secondary resist for Harmony.

Bitching in GAF is the solution for everything (besides 42)

 

[Stephen_drewz]

Since complaining is this thread is meant to work.

Dammit game give me TnT or Witching Hour!

 

[Ayumi]

IT IS. I don't know why, but complaining has always worked here.


WHERE IS MY SOJ?! (

 

[Addnan]

Where is my Flying Dragon???

Moaning hasn't worked for me yet

 

[Stephen_drewz]

If too many of us do it at once the RNG gods will catch on!

1000 more shards, 500 on gloves and 500 on belts. Nada. Andddd lets go again.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Just put on the "Inspiring Presence" barb passive on for the 1st time and damn....my life regen is insane with this.

Doing nothing at all, I'm regening 100k hp in about 6 seconds. This seems like a really underrated passive, and it even regens party members too.

This is for hardcore btw, for softcore this passive is completely worthless as SC is all about pure damage.

 

[Ayumi]

After realizing I won't be getting a new SoJ for a while, and especially not a better Unity than this one, I decided to just roll away 49% CHD to add a socket.

Lost ~8% dmg, but fortunately I had a Flawless Royal Diamond in my pants, so I just exchanged that with a Topaz and got a little damage back. My overall damage is now a little less, but my build is WAY more effective and sooo much faster. I also now have 71% increased elite dmg (up from 56%).

Of course my goal would be to get a great SoJ with 20% fire dmg and 30% elite dmg.. :<

Just a question.. anyone have experience with Unity in groups? The people I play with regularly don't use it, but if I end up in a group with someone else who has it, is it courtesy to take it off? I can imagine a DH using it temporarily because it gives him a lot of nice damage. But it would suck if I wore it too and he'd die every second because of the secondary. I do have a ring with higher damage for group play.. but it's kinda a hassle to change it around/ask or check if people are wearing one.

 

[Gromph]

After realizing I won't be getting a new SoJ for a while, and especially not a better Unity than this one, I decided to just roll away 49% CHD to add a socket.

Lost ~8% dmg, but fortunately I had a Flawless Royal Diamond in my pants, so I just exchanged that with a Topaz and got a little damage back. My overall damage is now a little less, but my build is WAY more effective and sooo much faster. I also now have 71% increased elite dmg (up from 56%).

Of course my goal would be to get a great SoJ with 20% fire dmg and 30% elite dmg.. :<

Just a question.. anyone have experience with Unity in groups? The people I play with regularly don't use it, but if I end up in a group with someone else who has it, is it courtesy to take it off? I can imagine a DH using it temporarily because it gives him a lot of nice damage. But it would suck if I wore it too and he'd die every second because of the secondary. I do have a ring with higher damage for group play.. but it's kinda a hassle to change it around/ask or check if people are wearing one.

You should roll away the intelligence :/

Dont use unity in groups Best advice i can give. (I remove my unity when i play with people, if your unity match mine you are instant dead)

 

[Ayumi]

You should roll away the intelligence :/

Dont use unity in groups Best advice i can give. (I remove my unity when i play with people, if your unity match mine you are instant dead)

As you can see, I already rolled something into a socket. I don't recall what it was, but it was insignificant (less valuabe than the INT). Then rolled that into CHD and now a socket. Works perfectly! I have another ring I use in groups. :3

 

[joesmokey]

Getting a little burned out. What are people doing to keep themselves playing that are 500+ paragon? I'm a single character person.

 

[joesmokey]

Edit: Double post, bah.

Just a question.. anyone have experience with Unity in groups? The people I play with regularly don't use it, but if I end up in a group with someone else who has it, is it courtesy to take it off? I can imagine a DH using it temporarily because it gives him a lot of nice damage. But it would suck if I wore it too and he'd die every second because of the secondary. I do have a ring with higher damage for group play.. but it's kinda a hassle to change it around/ask or check if people are wearing one.

You're better off with a good RoRG and a Cindercoat (assuming Furnace weapon) for group play. The resource reduction works nice with Blizzard with how fast group play can get.

I always take unity off and switch the gem to RoRG in group play and not worry about it.

 

[av2k]

Getting a little burned out. What are people doing to keep themselves playing that are 500+ paragon? I'm a single character person.

Pretty much this, I'm super burnt out on Diablo. I think I'll wait til 2.2 to play again.

 

[ZenaxPure]

If you don't want to play other characters, just play less. I was ~540 on non-seasons when 2.1 hit and I only got there by gearing up every class to T6 (except wizard who was forever T5 cause fuck you woh/mirrorball/sparker). That was like at the end of June as well so after that I just cut down my playtime a lot, basically just logged on and did a set of bounties on each character and then logged off.

I am in a similar position now since I have the 3 seasonal characters I wanted to work on in basically the exact gear I want (minus rolls) so lately I've just been logging on and trying to push GRs a bit on a random character and then logging off to play something else after that. Basically just going to keep doing that until the next season starts and then I will hit it hard again.

 

[StMeph]

I'm just waiting for the first season to end so I can get the shield on my Crusader.

At this point, the game is fun enough that I can see myself returning periodically like with D2, but since all of my characters are saved, I am not sure that I would keep re-creating new characters each time the Diablo itch returns. That's a curious difference, and I wonder what it will be like in another few years.

But Blizzard's expecting to drop another expansion by then, so I suppose that's a moot point.