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[StrongBlackVine]

No it is not which leads me to believe the XB1 is done.







"The current devkit is not a final representation of the PS4 Neo it is a baseline. Sony is well aware of what Microsoft is doing. They are still weighing the pros and cons of the final retail units specifications."

There was something else in that message that I omitted (for reasons) but it basically stated that the OG PS4 ram situation and the Neo cpu situation could be very similar.

Good shit here. Bump the CPU and overall specs Sony.

 

[Insumatposa]

Looking forward to see how this will be. Very promising E3.

 

[otakukidd]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps4-the-world-s-most-powerful-console-according-to/1100-6427532/

Bang.........

Nope, you are wrong, the many that defected from 360 to Ps4 was because Ps4 was the better games machine. I was a 360 player that defected.

Neogaf went crazy when the first benchmarks came in and Xb1 Ghosts was 720p....that sealed Xb1 fate for allot of people. Go look up the threads, there was 1000's of posts.

Even sony acknowledged they had allot of new PSN users which did not come from ps3...No, google it yourself...

Your argument only supports Ps3 users buying ps4.

Ps4 was used in allot of ads.

I was wondering why people kept saying they used that tagline. It's a UK thing. I have not seen that at all in the us. Also just because people jumped ship from xbox doesn't mean it was just because of the power.

 

[geordiemp]

I was wondering why people kept saying they used that tagline. It's a UK thing. I have not seen that at all in the us. Also just because people jumped ship from xbox doesn't mean it was just because of the power.

Maybe it is a UK thing, I dont see USA adverts. All I know is I recall the crazy Neogaf reaction to Xb1 running Ghosts. My Xb1 heart sank and I switched in my mind before even the things were even on the market.

I was a COD player in a UK clan of 30, we all defected to Ps4 and were disgusted at the Xb1 performance being leaked for COD. Anecdotal yes, but it fits with allot of 360 defectors I know.

Read the posts in Neo / Scorpio threads (hell even Nx threads), people want powerful consoles.

Either I am right, or remember Shu had no idea why so many new consumers left MS for Sony. I believe I do. They could all swing back if Sony gimps Neo with a crap CPU and MS knock it out of the park (spencer is a smart guy).

People want to play Witcher, Souls games, Mass Effects, Battlefields in 1080p60 with nice effects on console without messing around with a PC, and they want that 60 FPS locked..... We are not there yet.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Based on the way things seem to be going, building a cheap gaming PC seems to be best way to go to deliver 60 FPS games.

New gaming PC and PS4K for me. I can't play PS exclusives at anything less than the best version. And since pretty much all Xbox exclusives are on PC now no need for Scorpio. Nintendo still needs to make a VERY compelling argument, but I'll probably pass on the NX.

 

[Philippo]

And how much of an improvement it would be over standard PS4?

 

[ethomaz]

And how much of an improvement it would be over standard PS4?

~ twice power.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

AMD were said to be utilising some of the changes Sony made to their chipsets. Can anyone remember what those changes were? I think they had something to do with this:

The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we’ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands — the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that’s in the system.

 

[bitbydeath]

Are we taking the scorpio single source of '5-6tf' as gospel now?

You're right it is all still speculation but it'd make sense for Xbox to shoot that high if they want Occulus to run on it decently.

 

[RedAssedApe]

also the speculation of fall 2017 release and amd roadmap

 

[pixellated_man]

Maybe it is a UK thing, I dont see USA adverts. All I know is I recall the crazy Neogaf reaction to Xb1 running Ghosts. My Xb1 heart sank and I switched in my mind before even the things were even on the market.

I was a COD player in a UK clan of 30, we all defected to Ps4 and were disgusted at the Xb1 performance being leaked for COD. Anecdotal yes, but it fits with allot of 360 defectors I know.

Read the posts in Neo / Scorpio threads (hell even Nx threads), people want powerful consoles.

Either I am right, or remember Shu had no idea why so many new consumers left MS for Sony. I believe I do. They could all swing back if Sony gimps Neo with a crap CPU and MS knock it out of the park (spencer is a smart guy).

People want to play Witcher, Souls games, Mass Effects, Battlefields in 1080p60 with nice effects on console without messing around with a PC, and they want that 60 FPS locked..... We are not there yet.

The mainstream don't read Neogaf like you and I. And the main reason these xbox players switched to ps4 was the used game / always online controversy.

 

[Xenus]

Same specs as the PS4 but with 2X the Compute Units

knowing that 14nm is 1/2 the size of 28nm this will fit in where the old PS4 GPU was at

Eh. 14nm is actually 1/4th the size of 28nm. Sizes are halved in both x and y but realistically scaling isn't as clean as that anymore and processes from different makers are not the same size and even the naming conventions in the same makers aren't always consistent. However I'd expect it to be smaller in die area than the old GPU unless they add a fairly significant buffer for redundancy or heat issues.

 

[thuway]

I think Neo will be the first time in history a "slim" model is significantly more powerful than the original console.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I wonder what the Neo slim would look like? I'm thinking more rounded/soft like PSVR than sharp/angular like PS4?

We need concepts!

 

[geordiemp]

I wonder what the Neo slim would look like? I'm thinking more rounded/soft like PSVR than sharp/angular like PS4?

We need concepts!

I really hope they dont do a slim, I want a cool quiet ps4 neo

It would be nice to be able to fit in a larger HD as well, so little space, even an extra 5 mm would be welcome.

 

[Pandy]

The mainstream don't read Neogaf like you and I. And the main reason these xbox players switched to ps4 was the used game / always online controversy.

Source?

I'd say it was far more likely the other way around. The mainstream going for the more powerful machine (at a better price), while the internet forum readers were the ones up in arms about used games and always online.

 

[bitbydeath]

I wonder what the Neo slim would look like? I'm thinking more rounded/soft like PSVR than sharp/angular like PS4?

We need concepts!

The other is the NX, choose wisely.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Is the Neo strong enough to take a game with bad IQ and turn it into a game with great IQ?

 

[BFIB]

Welp, just sold the Wii U to put away for the eventual reserve of the new PS4 model.

Bring on E3!

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

Maybe it is a UK thing, I dont see USA adverts. All I know is I recall the crazy Neogaf reaction to Xb1 running Ghosts. My Xb1 heart sank and I switched in my mind before even the things were even on the market.

I was a COD player in a UK clan of 30, we all defected to Ps4 and were disgusted at the Xb1 performance being leaked for COD. Anecdotal yes, but it fits with allot of 360 defectors I know.

Read the posts in Neo / Scorpio threads (hell even Nx threads), people want powerful consoles.

Either I am right, or remember Shu had no idea why so many new consumers left MS for Sony. I believe I do. They could all swing back if Sony gimps Neo with a crap CPU and MS knock it out of the park (spencer is a smart guy).

People want to play Witcher, Souls games, Mass Effects, Battlefields in 1080p60 with nice effects on console without messing around with a PC, and they want that 60 FPS locked..... We are not there yet.

Pretty much the same situation with me. Me and my friends were all on 360 last gen but once the news started hitting about the XB1 being under powered me and just a couple of my friends decided to get PS4's instead. So we got ours at launch but it has had a trickle down effect because while we were the early adopters all my other friends when they asked us what they should get we told them PS4 because that's what we have so then we can all play together and so that's what they buy. Then their friends ask them and so on, now pretty much everyone I know has a PS4 and those that have an XB1 only use it for exclusives and play everything else on PS4.

 

[ethomaz]

Maybe it is a UK thing, I dont see USA adverts. All I know is I recall the crazy Neogaf reaction to Xb1 running Ghosts. My Xb1 heart sank and I switched in my mind before even the things were even on the market.

I was a COD player in a UK clan of 30, we all defected to Ps4 and were disgusted at the Xb1 performance being leaked for COD. Anecdotal yes, but it fits with allot of 360 defectors I know.

Read the posts in Neo / Scorpio threads (hell even Nx threads), people want powerful consoles.

Either I am right, or remember Shu had no idea why so many new consumers left MS for Sony. I believe I do. They could all swing back if Sony gimps Neo with a crap CPU and MS knock it out of the park (spencer is a smart guy).

People want to play Witcher, Souls games, Mass Effects, Battlefields in 1080p60 with nice effects on console without messing around with a PC, and they want that 60 FPS locked..... We are not there yet.

You are right if both consoles launch at the same time.

With NEO being released this year with 4TF then Scorpio will be dead before release even with 10TF.

One year head start is something that changes a market.

 

[KinofChaos]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps4-the-world-s-most-powerful-console-according-to/1100-6427532/

Bang.........

Nope, you are wrong, the many that defected from 360 to Ps4 was because Ps4 was the better games machine. I was a 360 player that defected.

Neogaf went crazy when the first benchmarks came in and Xb1 Ghosts was 720p....that sealed Xb1 fate for allot of people. Go look up the threads, there was 1000's of posts.

Even sony acknowledged they had allot of new PSN users which did not come from ps3...No, google it yourself...

Your argument only supports Ps3 users buying ps4.

Ps4 was used in allot of ads.

A lot....I have seen it once near launch and not in the last 1.5 years in North America..I never said it was not used. But it was not used much at all. Most Ps4 advertising was around third party games. Showing a couple ads does not prove it was "a lot:.

 

[KinofChaos]

Maybe it is a UK thing, I dont see USA adverts. All I know is I recall the crazy Neogaf reaction to Xb1 running Ghosts. My Xb1 heart sank and I switched in my mind before even the things were even on the market.

I was a COD player in a UK clan of 30, we all defected to Ps4 and were disgusted at the Xb1 performance being leaked for COD. Anecdotal yes, but it fits with allot of 360 defectors I know.

Read the posts in Neo / Scorpio threads (hell even Nx threads), people want powerful consoles.

Either I am right, or remember Shu had no idea why so many new consumers left MS for Sony. I believe I do. They could all swing back if Sony gimps Neo with a crap CPU and MS knock it out of the park (spencer is a smart guy).

People want to play Witcher, Souls games, Mass Effects, Battlefields in 1080p60 with nice effects on console without messing around with a PC, and they want that 60 FPS locked..... We are not there yet.

That's your first mistake, hardcore minority on GAF means little for the mass market...Power was not near the biggest reason PS4 sold more. World widr brand appeal, Ms not having a year head start, price are all bigger factors. Gaf <> real world.

 

[Bear Force One]

Based completely on rumor but:

PS4 Neo
-significant upgrade
-low cost to entry
-day one ready for VR
-superior versions of games though not completely nullifying base model.

Scorpio
-Huge upgrade
-likely higher price point
-likely supports Occulus
-later release date
-best version of multi plats similar to PS4/X1 now.
-completely replaces current X1.

Based on this assumption I don't see MS taking back a significant amount of market share. The big caveat will depend on how long Neo is on the market before Scorpio.

What do you guys think?

Unless the Xbox brand has done a secret turnaround worldwide, it's not going to matter. US might care.

 

[LordOfChaos]

AMD were said to be utilising some of the changes Sony made to their chipsets. Can anyone remember what those changes were? I think they had something to do with this:

The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we&#8217;ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands &#8212; the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that&#8217;s in the system.

Yes, later GCN revisions (1.2 onwards I think) used the 8 x 8 = 64 compute sources. PS4 was early to that, kind of like Xenos sat between gens.

Makes me wonder, the PS4.5 may look very 480ish, but what Cernyizations are in there?

 

[Equanimity]

Maybe it is a UK thing, I dont see USA adverts. All I know is I recall the crazy Neogaf reaction to Xb1 running Ghosts. My Xb1 heart sank and I switched in my mind before even the things were even on the market.

I was a COD player in a UK clan of 30, we all defected to Ps4 and were disgusted at the Xb1 performance being leaked for COD. Anecdotal yes, but it fits with allot of 360 defectors I know.

Read the posts in Neo / Scorpio threads (hell even Nx threads), people want powerful consoles.

Either I am right, or remember Shu had no idea why so many new consumers left MS for Sony. I believe I do. They could all swing back if Sony gimps Neo with a crap CPU and MS knock it out of the park (spencer is a smart guy).

People want to play Witcher, Souls games, Mass Effects, Battlefields in 1080p60 with nice effects on console without messing around with a PC, and they want that 60 FPS locked..... We are not there yet.

1. PS4 was roughly £100 cheaper than Xbox One on launch.

2. More powerful

3. History of better first party support

4. Easy around DRM

5. Jack Tretton, Adam Boyes, Shuhei Yoshida and Mark Cerny

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Yes, later GCN revisions (1.2 onwards I think) used the 8 x 8 = 64 compute sources. PS4 was early to that, kind of like Xenos sat between gens.

Makes me wonder, the PS4.5 may look very 480ish, but what Cernyizations are in there?

Thanks. I'm really not technically minded at all so I didn't have a clue what to search for. Wouldn't the question be: if indeed AMD made those changes internally, would they be available only to chipsets made for Sony or would they be more widely available? Could Sony have patented those changes?

 

[GameAddict411]

My brand new CUH-1215A PS4 was loud from day one playing the Uncharted Collection. You're telling me it needed to be cleaned the very day I bought it from Gamestop? Because that's shoddy craftsmanship on Sony's part if so.

It's faulty. I had a launch unit and later bought the destiny bundle(white PS4). The white PS4 is super quiet even running games like Uncharted 4. The old launch PS4 is a jet engine in comparison.

 

[Daft Punk]

Unless some disruptive innovation happens(i.e. game streaming becomes good), yeah, that is probably how it will go down.

lol this is not how it would go down at all and anyone thinking this is being ridiculous.

 

[ninjablade]

sony needs to go with a better cpu, i don't really need more then one console, but those scorpio specs with a zen cpu, at 400$ is a steal. ps4k games will mostly run 30fps while scorpio is hitting 60fps cause of the cpu.

 

[KinofChaos]

sony needs to go with a better cpu, i don't really need more then one console, but those scorpio specs with a zen cpu, at 400$ is a steal. ps4k games will mostly run 30fps while scorpio is hitting 60fps cause of the cpu.

I agree, the GPU sounds great but Sticking with Jaguar seems like a mistake, but how would BC work?

 

[icespide]

sony needs to go with a better cpu, i don't really need more then one console, but those scorpio specs with a zen cpu, at 400$ is a steal. ps4k games will mostly run 30fps while scorpio is hitting 60fps cause of the cpu.

I really doubt any developer would do a 30->60 FPS difference between 2 platforms of the same generation like that, even if one platform could

 

[KinofChaos]

I really doubt any developer would do a 30->60 FPS difference between 2 platforms of the same generation like that, even if one platform could

They already have haven't they this gen? Tomb raider remake?

 

[bidguy]

I really doubt any developer would do a 30->60 FPS difference between 2 platforms of the same generation like that, even if one platform could

why ?

 

[get2sammyb]

Unless the Xbox brand has done a secret turnaround worldwide, it's not going to matter. US might care.

This is the key thing that everyone seemingly ignores. It's not power, it's not exclusives, and it's certainly not firmware updates -- it's global presence that's putting Sony so far in the lead.

Remove everywhere but the US and UK and they're basically tying. But this is a global game, and Microsoft has an uphill struggle reversing its fortunes outside of English speaking nations -- no matter how many flops its got or how approachable Phil Spencer is on social media.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Thanks. I'm really not technically minded at all so I didn't have a clue what to search for. Wouldn't the question be: if indeed AMD made those changes internally, would they be available only to chipsets made for Sony or would they be more widely available? Could Sony have patented those changes?

These fall under AMDs new semicustom strategy - Sony may have highlighted the need, but AMD is still doing the bulk of the engineering. Sony has engineers of their own no doubt, but I think anything would be cross-licenced at most (think Toshiba using Cell for whatever, or Xenos being first to unified shaders but ever new GPU after it using them).

Sony gets hardware ahead of current roadmaps out of it, AMD gets part of their R&D funded.

 

[icespide]

They already have haven't they this gen? Tomb raider remake?

that is true it's kind of an odd case though because actually different developers worked on the PS4 version vs. the Xbox One version. the PS4 version also wasn't a very consistent 60fps, it's more like the dev just decided not to lock the framerate

why ?

I'm inclined to believe that developers would rather have a more consistent experience on each platform they support rather than giving one platform an obviously huge advantage. That's just my opinion though

 

[Insane Metal]

Please, dear Sony. If you really release the PS4 Neo (which is what it seems) improve the CPU. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease.

 

[orochi91]

How would BC work if Sony/MS ditched the Jaguar CPUs?

So long as the architecture remains the same (x86), then having newer CPUs shouldn't matter, right?

 

[Lister]

I'm inclined to believe that developers would rather have a more consistent experience on each platform they support rather than giving one platform an obviously huge advantage. That's just my opinion though

That would be pretty crappy of the devs. Every platform should be optimized as much as is permissable.

 

[BriareosGAF]

Yes, later GCN revisions (1.2 onwards I think) used the 8 x 8 = 64 compute sources. PS4 was early to that, kind of like Xenos sat between gens.

I shouldn't post in these threads because they're so painful, but I believe you are mistaking lane/thread counts in the wave dispatch with graphics vs. compute rings.

 

[icespide]

That would be pretty crappy of the devs. Every platform should be optimized as much as is permissable.

that's just not practical in this day and age. I totally understand why developers go for parity most of the time

 

[...Scatter...]

Please, dear Sony. If you really release the PS4 Neo (which is what it seems) improve the CPU. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease.

You will take your Cerny GPGPU compute and love it.

 

[ninjablade]

I really doubt any developer would do a 30->60 FPS difference between 2 platforms of the same generation like that, even if one platform could

getting to 60fps with those specs would require no effort from developers its essentially free, the ps4k is close with the specs it has now to get ps4 games running at 60fps but because of the weak cpu, it would take to much effort or be bottle knocked.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

These fall under AMDs new semicustom strategy - Sony may have highlighted the need, but AMD is still doing the bulk of the engineering. Sony has engineers of their own no doubt, but I think anything would be cross-licenced at most (think Toshiba using Cell for whatever, or Xenos being first to unified shaders but ever new GPU after it using them).

Sony gets hardware ahead of current roadmaps out of it, AMD gets part of their R&D funded.

Thanks again. Sorry about my ignorance.

 

[wachie]

AMD were said to be utilising some of the changes Sony made to their chipsets. Can anyone remember what those changes were? I think they had something to do with this:

The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we’ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands — the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that’s in the system.

Cerny wanted more engines capable of distributing graphics vs non-graphics work. The idea is essentially getting better utilization and getting closer to the peak performance of the APU. It was no coincidence that the CPU was quite weak so the GPU could also help out with the compute related tasks.

It will also come in play for VR, which is why I've been saying that they will be doubled in Neo/Scorpio.

 

[icespide]

getting to 60fps with those specs would require no effort from developers its essentially free, the ps4k is close with the specs it has now to get ps4 games running at 60fps but because of the weak cpu, it would take to much effort or be bottle knocked.

I'm not saying if any console could hit 60fps or whatever, I'm saying if the developer was in a scenario where one console can run it at 60fps but the other is limited to 30fps, I would expect the developer to lock both at 30

 

[UnwrittenZero]

I'm not saying if any console could hit 60fps or whatever, I'm saying if the developer was in a scenario where one console can run it at 60fps but the other is limited to 30fps, I would expect the developer to lock both at 30

I guess it would matter if they where pissing off the market leader or not if that happened I suppose who knows.

 

[ninjablade]

I'm not saying if any console could hit 60fps or whatever, I'm saying if the developer was in a scenario where one console can run it at 60fps but the other is limited to 30fps, I would expect the developer to lock both at 30

if that were true, then ps4 would be locked at 900p or even 720p when xbone games were, developers almost always take advantage of better hardware, and with consoles becoming more like pc's i expect more options in the future.

 

[icespide]

if that were true, then ps4 would be locked at 900p or even 720p when xbone games were, developers almost always take advantage of better hardware, and with consoles becoming more like pc's i expect more options in the future.

I wouldn't classify 900p to 1080p as a huge advantage. one game being 30 and another being 60? thats huge and I don't think developers would do it