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DirectX 12 GPU exclusive features to be shown/announced at GDC
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Dictator93
Member
That still says nothing about having hardware features. In fact the question is poorly posed to him and poorly answered. DX12 doesnt need new hardware as the questions supposes. Its hardware features need new hardware. Just like the DX11 superset with DX10.
Is that too coy?
Somehow the x1 GPU supports conservative rasterization, raster Ordered Views, etc... and no AMD gpus built on better/more advanced hardware do not. THen they hid these extremely useful graphical and optimization features behind an update which would take place nearly 2 years after the box comes out.
Yep. Sounds like a realistic scenario.
Oh give me a break, you're just reaching at straws now.
They knew what DX12 was and what it would become when building the Xbox One.
Unless you have any evidence to say otherwise...
How is it so hard to understand that this is a custom-built SoC like they've said since the beginning?
Dictator93
Member
You are going to be horribly horribly disappointed. They themselves have admitted that DX12 for xbox is mainly a CPU thing. You are grasping at straws.
The DX12s GPU features have HUGE GPU performance / graphical feature upgades. Why wouldnt they mention that?! To keep up the suspense?
Or because it simply doesnt exist.
Dictator93
Member
I got asked early on by people is DX12 would change the graphics capabilities of the Xbox One and I said that it wouldnt. I thought and Im not trying to rain on anybodys parade the CPU, GPU, memory thats in an Xbox One doesnt change when you go to DX12. DX 12 makes it easier to do what the Xbox One is good at, which will be nice. Youll see improvement in games with the use of DX12.
Read more at http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2014/10/phil-spencer-on-dx12-for-xbox-one-hardware-doesnt-change-when-you-go-to-dx12/#pQfftpIbBxpBqPCy.99
You're saying what we already know that doesn't dismiss his new comment.
It's about enabling more capabilities for devs, these being the capabilities of DX12.
He's just trolling at this point
Dictator93
Member
Well. There is no reasoning with you. Even the head of xbox saying it doesnt reveal new hardware features does not to convince you. Your entire argument is based upon a cryptic and unspecific tweet and conjecture. I mean, christ, TIMDOG commented on that. Doesn't that say anything about the depth of delusion?
According to FordGT, the xb1 will be the first full DX12 hardware.
Phil Spencer himself said there is no hardware coming online with dx12. What else could that mean?!
You're saying what we already know that doesn't dismiss his new comment.
It's about enabling more capabilities for devs, these being the capabilities of DX12.
No. Those new capabilities are like this:
It will change the submission and driver model. That is all.
I'm saying it already is because it was built with DX12 in mind.
You know what, it's not worth arguing.
We will see what happens.
Because the hardware already exists?!
Phil Spencer himself said that DX12 will unlock more capabilities for developers.
probably nvidia's pascal based gpu's
The evidence is simple.
The xbone uses amd's gpu based on the GCN architecutre. GCN supports dx12, but not the full feature set of dx12 - as the quote in the first post says.
It is highly unlikely the microsoft changed AMD's hardware and inserted new features into somebody else's architecture. It's hard enough to do with your own chips, it would be practically impossible to alter somebody else's HW design.
nobody is saying that ms didn't know about the full DX12 requirements, of course they did. but given the time/budget constrains they knowingly decided to use GCN cores that don't have the full support.
All we know is that Directx12 in full is coming to the xbox one at a later date, with some Directx12 features already in the xbox one right now. What that means for the xbox one we do not know, and will likely find out at GDC what it will bring to the xbox one.
There's nothing more to discuss here, you can keep posting and assuming ford and others are saying it's gonna unlock a 2nd GPU or whatever other misterxmedia bullshit you can come up with, but noone said that. All we have said is that full Directx12 is coming to the xbox one, and Phil has repeatedly said as much.
Edit: I see you removed my quote in you rpost
Chris Metal
Member
So now we know why windows 10 is free for a year... Its special graphical features requires a new GPU, such a scam!
/s
RazorbackDB
Member
Do we even know what features the full Directx 12 specification includes?
Dictator93
Member
They knew that DX12 would be superset based and allow for different feature sets per DX11 class hardware. That is literally all one can reasonablly read out of it.
Otherwise microsoft was leaving a shit ton of possible performance, GPU features, and GPU rendering techniques on the table for 2 odd years almost by the time this comes out. How on earth does that make sense? Are they that incompetent?
Edit: for example, why would the lead rendering dudes of two incredible engines say this about a DX12 hardware feature:
You know, unless no AMD hardware to date was capable of that DX12 hardware feature...
Gosh, what's that burning smell?
But yes, as cool as it is to look forward to DX12, I'd rather wait until nearing 13 to upgrade for it.
Question: If DX12 requires new hardware then how does the Xbox One take full advantage of DX12?
Answer: We knew what DX12 was when building the Xbox One.
If you can find a way to interpret that in a different way... man I need help with it.
Sorry dude, you're wrong. The XB1 has a GCN 1.1. gpu in it. If the Radeons based on GCN 1.1 don't have it then the xb1 will not either.
Objectively Bad Opinion
Member
preeetty sure GCN can do typed UAV, ROV (badly), and volume tiled resources
donno about conservative rasterization, but it can probably do that (badly) too
donno about conservative rasterization, but it can probably do that (badly) too
Hockeymac18
Member
Question: If DX12 requires new hardware then how does the Xbox One take full advantage of DX12?
Answer: We knew what DX12 was when building the Xbox One.
If you can find a way to interpret that in a different way... man I need help with it.
As a follow up, Phil responded:
Interested to see what kind of details they reveal on this. Probably nothing definitive until GDC, I imagine.
legacyzero
Banned
Welp. I WAS considering an upgrade. Gonna hold off on this.
The Shogun
Banned
Pascal is still set for 2016 right?
I'm torn on if I should upgrade in September / October to these new DX12 GPU's or wait for Pascal.
I'm torn on if I should upgrade in September / October to these new DX12 GPU's or wait for Pascal.
Dictator93
Member
Its hard to tell at times. Something like Pascal, given what we know about it, should blow almost all GPUs before it out of the water (that bandwidth 0_o). So it really depends when and if you want to play demanding games at their fullest settings. The only game I want to play at better settings in the immediate future is the witcher 3. That is about it.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
I think this is applicable to this thread....
https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/558798804560801792
probably still talking about cpu bound games, as stated in the conference on Wed.
https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/558798804560801792
probably still talking about cpu bound games, as stated in the conference on Wed.
Dictator93
Member
From a tweet of ‏@TWTHEREDDRAGON that provided the screenshot of the following tweet:
From Phil Spencer today:
Should be clear enough by now IMHO
DX12 includes DX 11.1 and 11.2 feature sets. It also just describes a new driver model for most DX11 hardware. It is not obvious or clear what he means.
All logic points towards their indirect wording to mean "it has the DX12 CPU stuff and whatever features boinaire has." There is no reason to assume it would have stuff even the LATEST Nvidia GPUs do not have.
Colbert
Banned
Did you see the last 3 words in the first tweet: "full DX12 coming" from the man who is "Head of Xbox"? What else do you need for a confirmation from MS? For what do you think they have invested the big R&D numbers that a circulating around with that SOC? They always said they have customized their GPU to their requirements.
DX12 is owned by MS, the SOC design is owned by MS: that's the reason NVIDIA do not have it at the latest cards because MS uses its competitive advantage and protects their Intellectual Assets. Simple as that.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
From a tweet of ‏@TWTHEREDDRAGON that provided the screenshot of the following tweet:
From Phil Spencer today:
Should be clear enough by now IMHO
So hardware that was finalized in 2013 can fully support DX12 but my 970 from September can't?
Dictator93
Member
It is misleading wording. It could easily be talking about the "DX12/GNM style do-it-yourself API" that already exists in the xb1 SDK even before the DX12 SDK update.
It DOES NOT, repeat, DOES NOT have full hardware DX12 support. If it did, AMD would have come out with GPUs after the fact that do have full hardware DX12 support. ANd they most definitely have not.
It is just misleading wording. Trying to get anyone to say "xb1 has full hardware DX12 feature set" would be a bold faced lie, so they hang on half truths and bad grammar to fill peoples dreams and console warrior fuel. Similar practice done by nvidia in dodging questions about DX12 hardare support and their use of the word "fully."
um, why on earth did MS say they had been working with Nvidia since the beginning of DX12 as they approached eachother about it? They are not competing in the PC market place or something due to the xb1. Nvidias products actively sell PCs... NV's use of DX and their promulgation of DX expands MSs domain and control over every market.
What you said is completely illogical.
Nvidia on the DX12 dev:
Dictator93
Member
That is because even MS is trying to keep devs in the dark about their own game development and engine design. It is a genius strategy!
Colbert
Banned
Just let me ask you this: How do you now it that the Xbox One cannot have full DX12 support in their GPU? Did you work for MS or AMD to design the SOC?
If you ever wanted a crystal clear message from MS what you are missing in the communication in two 160 char tweets? It says "full DX12" "they knew the DX12 spec when they designed the console".
But let us stop here because I already can see this discussion will not have an end.
And I am tired
I have found some very interesting thing:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/chuckw/archive/2012/06/20/direct3d-feature-levels.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/chuckw/archive/2012/06/20/direct3d-feature-levels.aspx
AMD does not have in their radeon cards either. You're mistaken if you think MS designed the SoC in the XB1. They specified features, and AMD designed the hardware based on AMD IP. Had they specified specific hardware features that would be useful, then amd would have implemented such features into their GPUs.
There is no way that MS fully owns the rights to the CPU as they do not have an x86 license. They don't own the GPU because that IP fully belongs to AMD. They might own IP rights to things such as the sound DSP or the move engines, but definitely not the GPU core.
I have found some very interesting thing:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/chuckw/archive/2012/06/20/direct3d-feature-levels.aspx
Platform specific apis, are those that are used for low level optimization and the GNM style api they offer in addition to dx11.
Full DX12 could easily mean dx11.2 level. dx11.3 might be and additional feature level of dx12. How could they have known the spec for dx12 in 2013 when it was still being worked on.
Writing a graphics spec needs a buy-in from all the players, primarily Intel, AMD, Nvidia, ARM, Qualcomm, ImgTec and possibly others. Designing an api in that manner involves a certain amount of back and forth so Hardware manufacturers would never develop based on a spec that remains in flux.
Colbert
Banned
IPs can be nested and also can be interchanged. I give you mine and for that I get yours. You can also put due dates into such contracts when the given IP is allowed to be used in other products. And so on. Common business practice, at least with the technology company I work for.
Good night.
So is the PS4 SoC, though. Or can you walk into a store to buy an eight-core AMD APU with a 1.84 TF graphics unit? No? Because it's custom-made, too. That said, MS certainly made more customizations to the SoC to make Kinect features like Snap possible and reduce CPU load for Kinect features like voice recognition. But the XB1 SoC being custom-built isn't automatically a confirmation the XB1 supports full DX12.
Either way, I hope MS clears up all the confusion soon, this DX12 secret sauce talk is getting annoying and tiresome.
Isn't Phil's statement today kind of confirmation though. No one really knows for sure what "full support" means, but Phil's quote certainly looks promising for Xbox fans.
Not saying that it is or isn't. Just that custom-built doesn't automatically mean it supports full DX12. Like you said, we don't know what full support means so any talk is pretty pointless to me anyway.
The Shogun
Banned
I just mentioned Pascal because it is going to be INSANE. The biggest jump we've seen in GPU tech in a while in my opinion.
Whatever cards release in September / October will be the first "fully" DX12 capable cards. Was just debating if I should get those or wait for Pascal.
Based on what? We know next to nothing about it.
The Shogun
Banned
The Artisan
Member
so... ways to get better graphical capabilities?
Sounds like GM200 is what you are after.
I guess the next generation of AMD and nVidia cards will have special fixed function silicon not currently available.
Why else would they limit new features to 'DX12 only' cards?
Surely it's not just a ploy to force upgrades.
XBOne is a GCN 1.0 device. If it supports features which my R9 290s do not then I call bullshit on the whole thing.
Why else would they limit new features to 'DX12 only' cards?
Surely it's not just a ploy to force upgrades.
XBOne is a GCN 1.0 device. If it supports features which my R9 290s do not then I call bullshit on the whole thing.