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Do skills and reflexes actually deteriorate with age?
- Thread starter Imp the Dimp
- Start date
i'm sure it does, but it's gradual and i'd imagine it only becomes noticeable when you're maybe 50+
i'm 30, and i feel like i have just as quick reactions now as i did as a kid. and i know for a fact i can complete games on hard i'd have never been able to do in my teens. but i do think it'll be downhill from here but very slowly. when i hit 50 or 60 i'd imagine gaming as it is now could be a bit more difficult then it was for me 20 years prior. but i'd also imagine gaming will have moved on a fair bit too, so maybe it won't matter if it's all VR based for instance.
i'm 30, and i feel like i have just as quick reactions now as i did as a kid. and i know for a fact i can complete games on hard i'd have never been able to do in my teens. but i do think it'll be downhill from here but very slowly. when i hit 50 or 60 i'd imagine gaming as it is now could be a bit more difficult then it was for me 20 years prior. but i'd also imagine gaming will have moved on a fair bit too, so maybe it won't matter if it's all VR based for instance.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Or get kicked 5 days after winning the biggest esports prizepool ever
I don't understand the reference.
Did that happen recently?
The only competitive game I've played extensively is Counter Strike. At 26 I'm a LOT better than I was at 19 but that is all thanks to more experience. Since I've played a lot more of it in my twenties than before twenties I would argue that my reflexes in the game has gotten better because they've gotten more use and training. I do believe that reflexes detoriate but if were talking about 18-25 vs 26-35 I think the amout of detoriation is a very, very small amount. Of course it propably starts climbing up with age.
It takes longer to learn completely new things, but you're better at learning other things when you can leverage your existing experience.
Shuggananas
Banned
yeah, aui_2000 won TI5 on the 9th of august and got kicked the 14th of august
wild wild rice
Member
I was the undisputed king of Smash Melee on my block back in the day. Now my hands struggle to keep up with the much slower Smash U. This is how I knew something was up.
Trickster
Member
Fighting games, which is arguable the type of competitive games that require the largest amount of muscle memory, have older players compared to other esport scenes.
You have a guy like Justin Wong there, who's one of the most famous fighting game players, and also one of the older ones ( 29 years ). But he always picks up new fighting games extremely fast, dude dominated the first street fighter 5 tournament, which had all the big shots of street fighter 4 there.
While I typically don't feel like it's affecting me I really noticed it when I was playing WoW again at the start of WoD and decided to try arenas. I hadn't done serious PVP since around the launch of Burning Crusade, so...about 8 years? Things like using kicks on reaction to spell casts were a lot harder. Part of it I'm sure was just not being used to what's changed but I really felt like I was moving underwater.
But overall I'm better at every game. I have a better mindset for learning, more patience, and I'm good at 'reading' people. For example I excelled with E.Honda in SF4 because he's not a super technical character but once you got a handle on how your opponent fought he was very strong.
I'd say my big handicap right now is that I'm playing a certain console FPS and I just do not have the background with that genre that most of my opponents likely do. It's hard to shake the feeling that I'm playing against people who grew up on Halo 1-3 or CoD and played at least one of them for years straight.
I've played tons of FPSes but as I've been a primarily PC gamer since around 1995, I did not care much for gamepad controls for them, I mean even when Goldeneye was still being played regularly I had at least some access to Half Life and Quake 2. Halo 3 was what broke that barrier and while I did play some Reach I didn't put all that much time into its competitive modes. So when I started playing Destiny here I am joining the game a few months late with crap gear trying to compete in a mode with level advantages enabled, with a controller I'd never used for FPSes, against goddamn teenage cyborgs that only play this one game. The only baffling thing is I somehow manage to go positive most of the time.
But overall I'm better at every game. I have a better mindset for learning, more patience, and I'm good at 'reading' people. For example I excelled with E.Honda in SF4 because he's not a super technical character but once you got a handle on how your opponent fought he was very strong.
I'd say my big handicap right now is that I'm playing a certain console FPS and I just do not have the background with that genre that most of my opponents likely do. It's hard to shake the feeling that I'm playing against people who grew up on Halo 1-3 or CoD and played at least one of them for years straight.
I've played tons of FPSes but as I've been a primarily PC gamer since around 1995, I did not care much for gamepad controls for them, I mean even when Goldeneye was still being played regularly I had at least some access to Half Life and Quake 2. Halo 3 was what broke that barrier and while I did play some Reach I didn't put all that much time into its competitive modes. So when I started playing Destiny here I am joining the game a few months late with crap gear trying to compete in a mode with level advantages enabled, with a controller I'd never used for FPSes, against goddamn teenage cyborgs that only play this one game. The only baffling thing is I somehow manage to go positive most of the time.
I have better gaming skills than when I was 15, but I don't think my reflexes are anywhere close (at 31). In the end, I've improved on some games while become worse on others. I found my gaming skills more natural, when younger. Now, I feel I need to work harder to become better.
Keihart
Member
Statistics for this question are useless i think, since there are exceptions for both escenarios, and most samples don't train themself on reflexes as gamers usually do. But then, nobody really understand how the brain actually works so it would be hard to have a conclusive answer.
Anecdotally is the best way to answer i guess, in my case i haven't feel a change and i'm hitting 29 this week, i might be better in fact since i detect paterns more easily than when i was younger.
Anecdotally is the best way to answer i guess, in my case i haven't feel a change and i'm hitting 29 this week, i might be better in fact since i detect paterns more easily than when i was younger.
nephilimdj
Member
I dont think my reactions have changed outside of just being more tired as im older, makes me lazy.
Boring games make me die way to much
Boring games make me die way to much
Interesting, thank you.
Jwong is already 29?
Also didn't know that the average age in fighting games was higher than in other competitive games, very interesting indeed.
I wasn't even thinking about competitive gaming, actually, just something like speedrunning single player games, that while reflexes would certainly help a lot in learning patterns, pure muscle memory should suffice, even if it took longer to get good at it.
Competitive gaming is complicated because not only reflexes will always be important, there's also a bigger impact of the "real life factor". I'm still 22 and I already have no desire whatsoever to go to tournaments anymore. I'll still watch the occasional EVO, CEO, the finals of the Capcom protour and so on, but I don't think I'll ever be at one again, I just don't think it's worth the time investment anymore. Both practicing the game and actually going to tournaments.
I'm 36 and can 1CC Ketsui, Dodonpachi, DDP Resurrection, and Pink Sweets (Remix). I am also one of the best Pikmin 3 Treasure Mission Mode players on three maps, according to the rankings. Perhaps Pikimin has as much to do with spatial cognition. I'm not sure.
Also, I know these skills are going to deteriorate--relatively soon. :-(
Also, I know these skills are going to deteriorate--relatively soon. :-(
Duggie_Brown
Member
I've been playing games since I was 5 years old and I'm 34 now. If anything my skills have gotten better and I've beaten some of the hardest games ever made, more so in my older years than my younger ones.
I think it's clear that there will come a time when nature takes over and we'll all be a lot slower than we used to be, but currently I'm better at games than I've ever been and relish a challenge. The last difficult game I completed was probably Bloodborne and I know for a fact that if I was younger I would have given up on that game as soon as I reached Father Gascoine hehe.
I think it's clear that there will come a time when nature takes over and we'll all be a lot slower than we used to be, but currently I'm better at games than I've ever been and relish a challenge. The last difficult game I completed was probably Bloodborne and I know for a fact that if I was younger I would have given up on that game as soon as I reached Father Gascoine hehe.
Crankshaft
Member
I'm 36 and I don't think my reflexes have gone down, just my drive. I don't play with that same intensity anymore. I play to have fun now instead of playing to win.
Trickster
Member
Unles there something like reflexes that decrease with age, I see no reason why ones skill would decrease purely because of age, if anything it should increase as you get more experience and knowledge.
I would suspect that the biggest reason for people to perform worse as they get older, is lack of motivation, which is probably inevitable.
Nose Master
Member
Yeah, there's a reason any dudes over 30 in competitive gaming scenes are considered old men. Valle, etc. They'll never compete with a kid in their prime in a reflex based game, aside from a hail mary here or there (Valle v Bonchan). That said, unless you're trying to crack into being a top player in one of the gaming scenes, you'll be fine.
Cave Johnson
Member
When I picture myself getting older in the current game industry, I can imagine myself going full circle to point-and-click, Ultima oriented or even tank control experiences of the 90s than I would with whatever new control scheme they come up in the future. I mean, the resistance to playing classic TR is a lot less than say, Uncharted despite having better control disparity between them.
It might be reflexes, hand-eye coordination or maybe just motivation but almost all FPS pros are under 25 when they hit their prime.
wild wild rice
Member
Came so close to 1CCing Deathsmiles once... ah, what could have been...
I'm sure a lot of it is because of the design of games these days holding my hand, along with having much less time to dedicate to a particular game (and the time I do have now I don't replay games that much due to the vast selection available to me..)... but...
.. I'm still amazed at some of my NES speed runs I used to do back in the day. In my early 20's I would beat the PS2 DMC games on the highest difficulty, along with Ninja Gaiden. There is a lot of rust but when going back to these I can't even comprehend how I did it. My brain just doesn't compute.
.. I'm still amazed at some of my NES speed runs I used to do back in the day. In my early 20's I would beat the PS2 DMC games on the highest difficulty, along with Ninja Gaiden. There is a lot of rust but when going back to these I can't even comprehend how I did it. My brain just doesn't compute.
Most likely a combination of all the possible factors. If we assume you can compensate for your reflexes deteriorating with experience and, basically, hard work, would people over 30 really be willing to put in even more time into the game than younger people so they can play on an even field? Or even if they want to, would that be possible, with all the other stuff they have to deal with in their limited time?
It takes you longer to get to the same level, and yet you have less time available (and in most cases, you don't even want to deal with that anymore), this combination probably makes the practical difference much higher than the theoretical one.
Time isn't that limited when playing videogames is your job
That does make sense, but do pro players really only play 9-5 then go home and do something else? Because I see some of them streaming late at night and stuff like that, I don't think they treat it as a "regular job", if that makes sense.
Their work hours are night heavy (official matches and teammates who still go to high school etc.) but I remember some CSGO pro saying they prac and play officials around 8 hours a day during the 'season'.
PeskyToaster
Member
I'm making a fool of myself at work laughing at this post.
And he's still on the young end of things. Figure MVC2 and 3rd Strike both came out around 2000, so basically everyone who was a part of the fgc then is pushing 30 at least.
RedNumberFive
Banned
I'm likely going to get carpal/cubital tunnel surgery towards the end of the month.
Take care of yourself folks. Listen to Nintendo when they suggest taking a break.
Take care of yourself folks. Listen to Nintendo when they suggest taking a break.
Trickster
Member
I just find it hard to believe that normal sports (or even other things like being a world class pianist) , which also require things like reflexes, hand-eye coordination etc, can have people who are 30+ still be among the top athletes. I just don't see why esports is such an exception.
That's changing very rapidly these days though.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Reflexes do, so any skill heavily-related will, too. Getting old does come with its share of suck, but the great thing is that the enjoyment and ability to play to completion isn't really affected by aging reflexes. I mean, we're talking about a time when the vast majority of games are more latency-tolerant than ever before when they build in huge windows of input before they even hit your laggy display and wireless controller that also adds its own latency to your input. Not only that, because gaming is more mainstream than ever before, the types of games made specifically for twitchy-thumbed and -fingered kids in the '70s, '80s, '90s, and early '00s is now at an all-time low thanks to choices in friendlier difficulty modes, softened consequences of failure, and a generally relaxed attitude toward saves and continuing. Most competitive action games aren't even deeply focused on pure reflexes, anyway, when it's clear that they're at their best when they're based around pleasing and challenging patterns to recognize and act against. Peak reflexes just aren't that important when drive and training matter more when coupled with past experience. Time and energy, however, are the worst part of getting old when they get tight and you feel constantly that there are other probably more important things that you should dedicated your time to.
Ok. So this whole reflex thing (to me) is highly subjective, and circumstantial.
This makes me think about USAF rasing their enlisting age.
CIRCUMSTANTIAL:
Last year the US Air Force raised the limit to enlist to age 39 - which means it's possible for a 39 year old to enlist, qualify, and complete all requirements to become a fighter pilot.
Bottom line - if you got it, you got it! Not many people that age can vouch for being entrusted to piloting a multi-million dollar aircraft.
SUBJECTIVE:
Not to mention many enlisted (veteran) pilots are well past their 30's. One could argue that the older individuals are acting from muscle memory learned from a younger age, and they'd be right!
WHAT I THINK:
I think seeing a lack of 30+ year olds in MLG has nothing to do with reflexes, and more to do with an adults evolution towards pushing for the next step in our short lives. Whether that's family and/or work.
The older you get the more responsible we have to be, which leaves less time for gaming - in which case yeah reflexes deteriorate when you don't use them as often.
This makes me think about USAF rasing their enlisting age.
CIRCUMSTANTIAL:
Last year the US Air Force raised the limit to enlist to age 39 - which means it's possible for a 39 year old to enlist, qualify, and complete all requirements to become a fighter pilot.
Bottom line - if you got it, you got it! Not many people that age can vouch for being entrusted to piloting a multi-million dollar aircraft.
SUBJECTIVE:
Not to mention many enlisted (veteran) pilots are well past their 30's. One could argue that the older individuals are acting from muscle memory learned from a younger age, and they'd be right!
WHAT I THINK:
I think seeing a lack of 30+ year olds in MLG has nothing to do with reflexes, and more to do with an adults evolution towards pushing for the next step in our short lives. Whether that's family and/or work.
The older you get the more responsible we have to be, which leaves less time for gaming - in which case yeah reflexes deteriorate when you don't use them as often.
OriginalNameGuy
Member
Yup I used to beast action games like Devil May Cry during my teenage years. Now I have to play at the lowest level because I can't do the crazy combos anymore
I get 347ms. 29 btw. Not bad for someone whos had a lot of concussions! Better than my 450 or so I had around this time last year!! Improvement bitches!!
Matrix XII
Member
Yeah they deteriorate.
I'm 29 now and I feel my reflexes slowing down compared to when I was 19. I used to play lots of CS1.6 back in the day and I just know I would never be as good now as I used to be because of reflexes alone.
I'm 29 now and I feel my reflexes slowing down compared to when I was 19. I used to play lots of CS1.6 back in the day and I just know I would never be as good now as I used to be because of reflexes alone.
I'm 42 and I have hit the wall. I notice it while playing video games, and I sure as Hell notice it while playing sports. Have been playing Punch-Out!! on my lunch breaks, and when I was 12 I could breeze through the whole game up to Mike Tyson. 12 years old. Now, I'm losing matches to Vodka Drunkenski. Ugh.
Matrix XII
Member
I get 347ms. 29 btw. Not bad for someone whos had a lot of concussions! Better than my 450 or so I had around this time last year!! Improvement bitches!!
Just got 387ms, not as bad as I feared lol
RealityCheque
Banned
At extremely high, competitive levels then the slight loss of motility and co-ordination that can come with aging could be a big factor in winning or losing.
For the rest of us who play recreationally, then it shouldn't be any issue at all. I'm 34 and feel just as capable as I did when I was 10.
Edit: average 257ms reaction time. Is that good/bad/OK?
For the rest of us who play recreationally, then it shouldn't be any issue at all. I'm 34 and feel just as capable as I did when I was 10.
Edit: average 257ms reaction time. Is that good/bad/OK?
It's a mix. Obviously if you're at a point where you're actually really old and can't move the way you used to then yeah, but really skills deteriorate with lack of practice as well or spreading interests too thin. Dedication is where those skills come from. "I'm just old so I'm not as good" is kind of an over popularized thing to hold onto when it's really not that hard to get back in, you just have to narrow your interests so you can just practice the movements your hands need to make to perform at a high level.
I'm not sure if it's still the case but that http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime test used to be very inaccurate if you were using Chrome. Try it in a different browser.
Wyndstryker
Member
I still feel like I can play the same way. At least I'm better now at smash than ever and I'm 31
ScatheZombie
Member
This is definitely a big factor. Most professional gamers I know (I was in MLG for a couple years myself) didn't drop out because their skills deteriorated and they couldn't compete anymore. They dropped out because... they started going to college and couldn't maintain the practice schedule and 20+ credit hours, they met their significant other and wanted to invest more time into their relationship, they had a kid and wanted to spend more time with their new family, or they were offered a more stable job in a peripheral occupation (promotions, team management, games industry, telecoms, etc.) and realized that while you can make a lot of money in e-sports, in reality only the top like 2% of pro-gamers make a decent living from it. It's great when you are a teenager/early twenties and don't particularly need a steady, stable income. But once you have responsibilities - like a spouse, child, house, or other job - it's not possible to keep up the time-consuming and rigorous practice schedule necessary to compete for that top 2% prize pool to actually make enough money for all the effort to be worthwhile.
Oh shit I laughed way too much at that.