FunkMiller
Gold Member
Tennant is one of the biggest pro-trans celebrities out there. He would have been fully behind the story and the character.
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Doctor Who 60th Anniversary Specials | Official Trailer
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Tennant is one of the biggest pro-trans celebrities out there. He would have been fully behind the story and the character.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Well, you can disagree with it all you want, but RTD put a huge amount of gay and lesbian representation into his original run of Doctor Who, and Torchwood was as gay as all fuck about. And plenty of people hated it.
Hell, the original series had a lot of political ’preaching’ in it, that was equally controversial. The green death always springs to mind, for instance. There was nothing mild about the messaging in that.
Go back and look at the actual series you’re talking about. You’ll see that politics and political messaging has always been a part of the series. The BBC has always used it to convey messaging to children.
The problem recently has been the way it’s been done. Chibnall was absolutely shit at it. As were the stories he tried to tell.
Doctor Who didn’t get tagged during his era as woke shit because it had political messaging in it, it got tagged as woke shit because it was done so absolutely fucking terribly in every conceivable measure. RTD could probably get away with a lot more had the show been treated better for the past eight years.
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Whitecrow
Banned
I dont know if being pro-trans includes accepting being shat on for being man... but OK, good for him I guess
FunkMiller
Gold Member
It was cringeworthy, no doubt. But more than anything, the choice of dialogue for it was fucking awful. You can say the same gag in a much better way. Again... all about the writing.
lmimmfn
Member
I felt I was watching an episode of the office, that was awful.
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
It's rather comic to bring up a mild episode about environmentalism to put alongside the trans episode.
Environmental themes on TV and movies were always very mild in that era and caused little stir. Doctor Who's be-nice-to-nature bit was comparable to Star Trek: The Voyage Home, which was a lighthearted movie about saving the whales, but which took no part in any kind of cultural war in the slightest (there's even a scene where Kirk is bothered by the vulgar language of people in our time, and calls them uncivilized for not being more self-controlled and dignified, calls it something the future left behind as we cleaned ourselves up; frankly, a conservative message, particularly if you look at vulgar language acceptance by political orientation on social issues; and many moments in that film were culturally conservative).
A better comparison would be to look back at the last major event for Doctor Who: the 50th anniversary special. That was the last time (a decade ago) that they brought back David Tennant and all the fanfare that goes with that reappearance.
And what was the 50th special about? Was it politics, hot culture debates, social issues of the moment? No, because the writers and production actually cared about the franchise above all. So it was a respectful special that had essentially zero political overtones, nothing vaguely controversial brought in for even a single throwaway line as I recall. It was a sci-fi special for the fans, as it should be, with respect for the public.
Now look at the 60th special bringing back Tennant again... the entire episode is devoted to taking a single side in the most heated social debate of the current moment. It begins from that topic, clumsily stretches it across the running time, and gives us nothing more of content whatsoever. It intentionally and brazenly antagonizes the views of a large portion of its own base and public. It's purely a political vehicle. The franchise has fallen so far in just 10 years.
Technically he lectured for being "male-presenting" by a man in a cheap drag costume.
And that's what makes RTD's worldview so deeply evil... he praises womanhood only by turning it into a costume mask, where this great power of femininity comes from having curls in your hair and a bit of overdone makeup. He's a deeply despicable and vile man, doubly so for being invested in a children's program.
And if you think that represents British feminism, you haven't read more than the pages of a tiny bubble of publications. The current battle from the feminist side is specifically to stop this masquerade that mocks womanhood and psychologically abuses women by asking them to accept men with a fetish & a bit of drag into their spaces, being forced to pretend someone who fetishizes them is actually one of them. There are many prominent female voices (and mostly from the left, to be clear--prior champions of women's rights) who are fighting this nonsense. But the BBC no longer cares about representing its actual public that pays the bills; it now lives only for antagonism by its own niche class against everyone else.
Ulysses 31
Member
Airola
Member
I was somewhat ok with the explanation that because Donna was pregnant she moved enough of the Doctor's mind to the child so that's why she wouldn't die. But then suddenly the actual explanation seemed to be that it wasn't because of the child sharing Doctor's mind with Donna but because the child was trans. Or did I understand something wrong?
And the "...binary... NON-BINARY!" moment was a thing that if 20 years into the future there will be top lists of corny outdated 2020's "inclusive" and pandering movie/tv-show lines, that will be high on that list.
My wife, a huge Doctor Who fan, said this episode felt hollow. As no-one seems to praise or hate this episode for its story but instead for its message I think it tells a lot. The actual story just was disappointingly lukewarm, very hollow. Mediocre Doctor Who at best. People who hated it did it because of its political message. People who loved it did it because of its political message.
And the "...binary... NON-BINARY!" moment was a thing that if 20 years into the future there will be top lists of corny outdated 2020's "inclusive" and pandering movie/tv-show lines, that will be high on that list.
My wife, a huge Doctor Who fan, said this episode felt hollow. As no-one seems to praise or hate this episode for its story but instead for its message I think it tells a lot. The actual story just was disappointingly lukewarm, very hollow. Mediocre Doctor Who at best. People who hated it did it because of its political message. People who loved it did it because of its political message.
Sadly some of them aren't new writers. They have written amazing episodes before hand. But it seems they got a full frontal lobotomy at some point recently.
Xenon
Member
Does he have a choice? Not embracing the ideology is the career equivalent of sticking you hand into a meat grinder. People in the entertainment industry's brains won't allow them to destroy their lives any more than they would destroy their limbs. I think most are completely unware of it.
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
He’s been a pro-trans activist for years, well before he was set to return. He would have been fully behind everything.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Dr
What a fall from grace it all is. Very 2023.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
RTD wrote this episode.
It’s okay to dislike this episode, but you also have to accept that it was RTD that wanted to do it this way, with Tennant fully backing him.
The one thing the show could have done with is a completely fresh team behind it, outside the existing BBC system. Combine that with a full reboot, and it could have gone back to the popularity it used to have.
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kurisu_1974
is on perm warning for being a low level troll
Torchwood had a lot of gay elements but it never felt tacked on or panderversian, and more importantly some of the stories were really good. The previous Doctor Who season was almost unwatchable due to the bad writing and virtue signalling. I didn't mind the cast and Jodie was a great doctor, but she had to work with some of the worst scripts. I still even haven't seen the two final specials of her run because of that.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Yeah, it's erm, it's a take, I guess.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
She was horrendous. In every conceivable measure - and it had nothing to do with the fact she had titties. Written terribly, acted worse. The absolute nadir of Doctor Who.
If Matt Smith was the best Doctor (and he was, and season 5 is the single best season of both the entire show, and one of the best in sci-fi TV history) then Jodie Whitaker's entire run is the absolute worst. Like watching someone paint vomit onto a wall.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Aye she was utter crap. This didn't help either
Jodie Whittaker never watched Doctor Who before her audition | Radio Times
The New Time Lord was advised to come into the part with “fresh eyes”
www.radiotimes.com
Just bullshit all round. I remember seeing interviews with David, you could plainly see he wanted the role since he was a kid. Jodie though? Pffft.
But here we are. It won't recover from this, sadly.
Watch that Disparu video I posted, you don't have to like or agree but it's plain to see, RTD has lost the plot. Most have at the BBC. It's another lost company in modern day, overtaken in ideology.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
I rarely watch any mainstream guff anymore. The last full show I did watch was Yellowstone, we're now on 1883. They're pretty damn good it has to be saidIt's been like it for so long, i think I've become numb to it
The wife's now insisted we watch 'I'm a celeb in the jungle', so there's that I guess..
If I wasn't married, normal TV would just pass me by
More of a gamer at heart.
FatallyYours
Gold Member
Strictly is sometimes worth watching. On mute. For the flexible sparkly ladiesIt's been like it for so long, i think I've become numb to it
Probably not worth the licence fee though
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
Agree on this — season 5 was the peak, and Smith is wonderful.
Moffat is always brilliant at the beginning of things, before he goes off the rails. Seasons 1/2 of Sherlock were also peak TV, although I disliked 3 and hated 4.
Laptop1991
Member
Well i liked seeing David Tennant and Catherine Tate back, but that's about it, if the stories are going to be like this in the future, the show won't get the numbers of viewers it had in the first run when RTD was in charge in my opinion.
BigDeadFreak
Member
Same here. I barely watch anything outside of 'box set' series. Broadcast TV has almost always been trash but now it's trash with added wokeness.If I wasn't married, normal TV would just pass me by
More of a gamer at heart.
I've just started watching Banshee. It's completely preposterous but it's also non-stop sex a violence so it's well worth your time if you're looking for something non-woke and you haven't already seen it.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Oh yeah that looked good, ironically I was literally five minutes into this before she said she'd rather watch Yellowstone. Once we've finished 1883 I'll be straight back on Banshee
If she ever chooses something a bit dump I normally sit and update me deck..
CharmingCharlie
Member
I have to admit I sometimes wonder if they secretly let out the nutters to run society. Seeing RTD explain they changed davros because they hand wringed over people associating people in wheel chairs as evil. I mean like WTF, if you are worried that others are associating people in wheelchairs as evil because of a character then the problem might be with YOU. At no point in my life have I ever looked at a wheel chair user and gone "ohhhhhh that dude/dudette must be evil cos they are in a wheelchair just like davros. For fucksake I didn't even associate Davros was even in a fucking wheelchair till RTD said it.
I tried to watch this special I got as far as the gal in a fucking wheelchair in a situation where no sane person would think "yeah we need a specialist in a fucking wheel chair on site in this very dangerous area". I haven't really bothered with Doctor who since Capaldi, I tried to remain interested in it when it was that Jodie whatshername but honestly she was utterly shit in the role. It had nothing to do with the Doctor now being female and had everything to do with Jodie whatshername being utterly shit in the role.
Like many Who fans I fostered hope of a renewel of the doctor, but yeah that aint happening. Just kill the fucking show already. I am still face palming about why they changed Davros, it is such a stupid fucking take on things it is unreal. The nutters truly have been let out of the asylum and are running things now.
I tried to watch this special I got as far as the gal in a fucking wheelchair in a situation where no sane person would think "yeah we need a specialist in a fucking wheel chair on site in this very dangerous area". I haven't really bothered with Doctor who since Capaldi, I tried to remain interested in it when it was that Jodie whatshername but honestly she was utterly shit in the role. It had nothing to do with the Doctor now being female and had everything to do with Jodie whatshername being utterly shit in the role.
Like many Who fans I fostered hope of a renewel of the doctor, but yeah that aint happening. Just kill the fucking show already. I am still face palming about why they changed Davros, it is such a stupid fucking take on things it is unreal. The nutters truly have been let out of the asylum and are running things now.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
That’s the thing though. He’s not in a wheelchair. He’s never been in a wheelchair. He’s in half a Dalek. Unless RTD is literally talking about the construction of the thing outside the fiction of the universe? It’s such a fucking weird hill to die on. And he’s the one who makes the association between ‘disabled’ and ‘evil’ so doesn’t that make him the one being discriminatory?
Soodanim
Gold Member
I've just watched some of the videos about it and it seems like they're right: this is the nail in the coffin. If this is how RTD thinks and this is a taste of what's to come, I'll stay well away and keep my memories of the show confined to when the show was good. People will be clamouring for the quality of the last time it was cancelled before we know it, because this will get Titanic ratings and I don't mean DiCaprio.
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
It's particularly sad because the details of the episode weren't all bad... some decent banter and scenes hidden in that long running time, which felt reasonably like the old RTD seasons. But layering the culture war on this thick to make the entire (re)debut of Tennant be a story about how the "doctor is nonbinary" and gender identity itself saves the universe... I can't possibly continue to watch. And they've already announced on social media several more "trans" actors on board, so it'll only continue.
Banjo64
cumsessed
‘We find it problematic that people might associate a person in a wheel chair as evil’
So we’ll change him to someone the BBC has no problem portraying as evil, a white male.
Honestly retarded with a capital R.
Soodanim
Gold Member
Double retarded that RTD doesn't see that it reflects more poorly on him and his production team than it ever does on anyone involved with the creation, use, or portrayal of Davros. Ignoring that Davros isn't even in a wheelchair, he either thinks that wheelchair-bound people can't or shouldn't be evil. I can't decide which is worse, because you have to forget all rational thought to come to that conclusion.
It is a shame, I like any fan of that era of Who was looking forward to it. But when they choose to bury that under a pile of manure, it's no surprise that not everyone wants to go digging.
I'm starting to wonder if I should put money down on RTD coming out as trans before summer. This level of "This is the most important thing ever" is reminiscent of certain places.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Well, that wasn't very good at all, even s11, which is probably the worst season of who of all time, was better than this; also this was pretty much the 10th all over again, this is definitely going to be a season for memberberries and pandering, might be the first season of who I bow out from.
They can't see anyone as a person, only a series of check-boxes
Krathoon
Gold Member
Exactly. Davros is evil. It does not matter he is in a wheelchair.
Pagusas
Elden Member
I liked the episode overal, the new tardis was amazing and having the doctor/donna back is great. Some things were too heavy handed for sure and hopefully RTD curbes that down some. Overall though you can see the passion the crew put into the episode, and I find some of the extreme banter to be very off putting.
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
I liked this better than the 60th anniversary special.
Doctor Who should go back to being a kid's show, but unfortunately even that is understood by some people to mean "opportunity for early propaganda instruction in the latest social trends." Cut all that crap out and it could be a real children's/family show again.
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
Not really the same thing, though.
Sure, too much race swapping for no reason feels forced and is a bit obnoxious. But overall, that's a very minor thing. I actually prefer Martha over Rose and Donna as a companion, by the way.
This gender thing is much more insidious. It's not just a random character, but a whole narrative about how "the Doctor is non-binary" and how being fluid beyond gender somehow grants a magical identity and perspective... in a children's show. I find this morally reprehensible as do many others. It's on another level entirely from a few diversity swaps.