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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time

He changed costumes like 3 times in this one episode, didn't he?

But yeah, Hoodie doc is best doc.

He seems to change his outfit more than any other Doctor. I do kinda like that about him though, and he's got his own distinct vibe with the shirt/thin sweater, hoodie and jacket combo, plus sonic sunglasses and the current longer hairstyle which I think looks so much better than the much shorter haircut he had in his first series.
 
We always, always have a candidate who all the insiders and bookies say is nailed on to get the role, and it's only really been Tennant that they were right for. If we listened to the press, the new series would have kicked off with Bill Nighy as the Doctor, Tennant would have regenerated into Paterson Joseph, and Smith would have regenerated into Ben Daniels. It doesn't mean anything at this point.

While I'd definitely prefer a profound change in the casting of the Doctor, I'm not going to sit here and say that it'd be terrible if it was a white guy- I was in this position four years ago, and they promptly went and cast Peter Capaldi in the role. I will, however, say that if a white guy is cast, he'd have to be a REALLY interesting pick for me not to be disappointed, and Kris Marshall is absolutely not that.

RIP Paterson Joseph.

Yeah, I'm with you here, but that's sort of what I mean when I think the Beeb would have reservations about this chap in particular. With Capaldi, the weight of his work, his love of the show and his obvious talent outweighs the representation argument. (And frankly, his gruff older Scotsman persona isn't something that we're drowning in throughout media either so I didn't think twice about his casting.)

Marshall brings nothing new to the table in those terms.
 
Regarding Marshall, it's interesting to note that the Mirror never actually printed their story about his casting, and that their spoiler report from yesterday (which did actually see print) flatly contradicts it.
RIP Paterson Joseph.

Yeah, I'm with you here, but that's sort of what I mean when I think the Beeb would have reservations about this chap in particular. With Capaldi, the weight of his work, his love of the show and his obvious talent outweighs the representation argument. (And frankly, his gruff older Scotsman persona isn't something that we're drowning in throughout media either so I didn't think twice about his casting.)

Marshall brings nothing new to the table in those terms.
Agreed. What Marshall would bring to the table would be a safe, well-recognised pair of hands- not, perhaps, the worst idea in the world for the show at the moment, but a thoroughly uninspiring choice.

The most exciting casting for me would be someone who's broadly known for an entirely different type of performance, and who'd bring something entirely new to the role; Eccleston's probably the closest to that we've had in the past, what with his background in gritty drama. That's why the most interesting name on the table at the minute for me is easily Phoebe Waller-Bridge, and why I was pulling so hard for Daniel Kaluuya back in the run up to Capaldi's casting- they're great actors who've never played close to Doctor-ish, and could bring something really interesting and fresh to the part.
 

Platy

Member
Regarding Marshall, it's interesting to note that the Mirror never actually printed their story about his casting, and that their spoiler report from yesterday (which did actually see print) flatly contradicts it.

Not exactly ... he can start regeneration at the end of series 10 and regenerates at the middle of christmas special or 13's first story is a 3 doctor story =P

Like Capaldi's, in a way
 
Not exactly ... he can start regeneration at the end of series 10 and regenerates at the middle of christmas special or 13's first story is a 3 doctor story =P

Like Capaldi's, in a way
The Mirror report on Kris Marshall says that Capaldi regenerates into Marshall during this series, not at Christmas. The report about Bradley says that it's Capaldi who stars in the Christmas special, not Marshall. The two aren't compatible.
 

Platy

Member
The Mirror report on Kris Marshall says that Capaldi regenerates into Marshall during this series, not at Christmas. The report about Bradley says that it's Capaldi who stars in the Christmas special, not Marshall. The two aren't compatible.

Even if the Christmas special
is Capaldi, Marshall and Bradley
?
 

Boem

Member
Regarding Marshall, it's interesting to note that the Mirror never actually printed their story about his casting, and that their spoiler report from yesterday (which did actually see print) flatly contradicts it.

I'll spoiler all of this just to be sure. This is about the latest Mirror rumor everyone is discussing: No new information on my part or anything, but I don't want anyone reading anything they don't want to.

I feel like the Mirror reporting it now is because the rumor that Bradley would be back as the First Doctor has been floating around for months now, and part of that rumor included him being locked in that vault Capaldi was fretting over this episode. Now the episode aired, and there was indeed a vault, and Capaldi even suggested that, if something happened to it, he would immediately get a message on his Psychic Paper. That (along with hinting at that era with Susan's photo) definitely seems to hint that the rumor was true, which meant that the Mirror was more comfortable reporting it.

My theory: what if, like I said earlier when the first clips of the episode were posted online, Bill really is Susan?

The hints:

- The picture of Susan on Capaldi's desk, and him looking at it (with the camera lingering on it) when he mentioned he 'noticed her'. Now, it could be that he just noticed her because he can never help being interested in 'companion-types', but Bill even mentioned that there were others listening to his lectures that weren't supposed to be there, and yet he singled her out.

- The name 'Bill' could be a hint towards 'Bill/Billy Hartnell', which is what William H. called himself, and his closest friends as well.

- The Doctor always said that he would come back for Susan one day, and yet he never did (on tv). At some point, some writer was going to do it. What if the real reason Capaldi is there is to keep an eye out for Susan/Bill, in cooperation with his former self (Bradley), and that the First Doctor is hiding in that safe for as of yet unknown reasons while 12 is keeping a close watch on Bill? The finale would involve Bill learning who she really is, and her finally getting closure with the Doctor - especially the first one, which is the one she has the closest emotional relation with.

- If they're going to bring back the First Doctor, him promising to go back for Susan but never doing it is pretty much the biggest thing that's left hanging from his era. The only thing he never really got to do on tv, and the only thing left that really mattered.

- Capaldi always said he'd want to meet Susan again.

I'm not willing to bet 100 bucks on this theory or anything, I'm just having fun guessing here. But I'll bet $5,-. Why not.

We all know Moffat will want to go out with as big a bang as possible. At the end of this, he'll have done a multi-Doctor special, he'll have done his entire River arc, he'll have done three regenerations, a multi-Master special, the true return of Davros, a female Master, all the classic Doctors in reused footage, the regeneration of McGann, the Time War, an actual secret Doctor in that war, a full return to Gallifrey, the moment Doctor 1 and Susan first stole the Tardis....

I wouldn't put it past him to go all the way back to the first loose end of the series and finish up the Susan story for his grand finale. Why not.
 
Even if the Christmas special
is Capaldi, Marshall and Bradley
?
If the Mirror's new spoiler backed up their other report, you'd have thought that they'd mention it.

There's also no way that Moffat would step on Capaldi's swan song like that- PARTICULARLY for a Doctor that he won't have any major ongoing role in developing.
 

Boem

Member
Also: I honestly don't think they have cast the new Doctor yet. What we know of the timing behind the scenes says it really wouldn't have been worked out so soon.

Knowing the BBC, as soon as they know it, we'll know it. Press release on the same day they cross the t's and dot the i's. Probably with another video announcing the new Doctor, or maybe even another live show (and god I'm hoping for another awkward live show mess. Get One Direction back for this one!).
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Also: I honestly don't think they have cast the new Doctor yet. What we know of the timing behind the scenes says it really wouldn't have been worked out so soon.

Knowing the BBC, as soon as they know it, we'll know it. Press release on the same day they cross the t's and dot the i's. Probably with another video announcing the new Doctor, or maybe even another live show (and god I'm hoping for another awkward live show mess. Get One Direction back for this one!).

Oh, I'd forgotten about that show. Yes, we need something that lives up to that again.
 

Boem

Member
In this day and age, just do a Live online video. Easier for those around the world to watch.

I'd think they'd want it to big a big British BBC event really. It's only right, in the end.

But yeah, maybe the mess of last time scared them off live shows for now.
 
I'll spoiler all of this just to be sure. This is about the latest Mirror rumor everyone is discussing: No new information on my part or anything, but I don't want anyone reading anything they don't want to.

- The name 'Bill' could be a hint towards 'Bill/Billy Hartnell', which is what William H. called himself, and his closest friends as well.
.

Heather was also the name of Hartnell's wife. So they were Bill and Heather as well lol

there was some other
Hartnell
refs in the first ep:
Out of Order sign (War Machines), Marie Celete sign (The Chase), gratuitous Susan photo shots.
 

Boem

Member
Heather was also the name of Hartnell's wife. So they were Bill and Heather as well lol

there was some other
Hartnell
refs in the first ep:
Out of Order sign (War Machines), Marie Celete sign (The Chase), gratuitous Susan photo shots.

Hah, that's fun. Totally didn't realize those other things.
 

tomtom94

Member
I buy the whole
bring back Susan
bit - although it's still a leap to
bringing back Bradley as Doctor 1
- but I really, really hope
she isn't Bill. Would basically mean her character arc is remembered as "the one who turns out to be Susan" and she deserves better

Even still it's a HUGE bit of fanwank - even for Moffat - which is something I thought he'd sworn off. The season 7 finale was plenty.
 

Boem

Member
Any particular reason for the Susan photo?

Has that person even been mentioned in the past seasons?

Yeah a couple of times. A lot of hints during Tennant/Smith/Capaldi years that the Doctor used to be a father/grandfather ('dad skills' and all that), specifically mentioning his granddaughter in Rings of Akhaten ('I came here years ago, with my granddaughter!' 'Your what?'), and you see her in the series 7 finale, when Clara travels all over the timeline. She's in that scene where you see the first Doctor and Susan stealing the Tardis.

Also, of course, she was a part of An Adventure in Time and Space, which wasn't really a part of the main show but did put her in the minds of modern audiences again.

I'm sure there are some more references I'm missing. But she did come up, yeah.

I buy the whole
bring back Susan
bit - although it's still a leap to
bringing back Bradley as Doctor 1
- but I really, really hope
she isn't Bill. Would basically mean her character arc is remembered as "the one who turns out to be Susan" and she deserves better

Even still it's a HUGE bit of fanwank - even for Moffat - which is something I thought he'd sworn off. The season 7 finale was plenty.

Yeah I'm not sure I would be happy about it - I was just saying that some hints aligned for me. Might be nothing of course, just talking out of my ass.

I liked the season 7 finale though. It was all in the lead up to the 50th anniversary, that entire season was a bit heavier on the callbacks. Seeing that play out live with no idea it was going to happen was pretty damn amazing (and I was sure, at the time, it hinted at all the Doctors being a part of Day of the Doctor, even though I now know how unlikely that was going to be). At that moment in time it was fine. We were all getting ready for one big party, and that was a nice little treat. You only get one 50th anniversary after all.
 

Boem

Member
If she was susan how would that even work ?

Like the doctor saw her mom =P

Surely Susan had a mother. The Doctor is her grandfather.

Don't forget, the Doctor is half-human! (I like saying this since it drives some people up the wall).

Who's to say he doesn't still have some relatives living on earth, or whether that woman in the pictures was the Doctor's daughter or the woman who married the Doctor's child? Who's to say the Doctor didn't set all this up just to keep the charade for Susanbill going, and that woman is just someone random (don't forget that Bill never saw pictures of her mom before that moment)?

Yeah yeah, I know I'm reaching. Let me have my wild theories.

Twitter seems angry

Did something make people angry?

Twitter is always angry.
 
I wondered if it was a Susan pic purely because they wanted to avoid random favouritism and, given the inability to have the most recent companion, they went for the first and biologically-linked one.
 

Boem

Member
I wondered if it was a Susan pic purely because they wanted to avoid random favouritism and, given the inability to have the most recent companion, they went for the first and biologically-linked one.

I think that they would have just kept it to the River pic if that was the case.
 
While I'd definitely prefer a profound change in the casting of the Doctor, I'm not going to sit here and say that it'd be terrible if it was a white guy- I was in this position four years ago, and they promptly went and cast Peter Capaldi in the role. I will, however, say that if a white guy is cast, he'd have to be a REALLY interesting pick for me not to be disappointed, and Kris Marshall is absolutely not that.

This is pretty much was I was getting at earlier in the thread. I can overlook "hot" because getting those lapsed Tennant fans back in with semi-romantic Doctor is important I guess, but for anything else, I want to be surprised.

Not saying Marshall couldn't do that with some great material, but nothing I've seen from him would make me think anything other than him being a safe, conventional choice. The choice of the Doctor is somewhat of a show these days and Marshall isn't really playing the game well on BBC's part. You want something that will scream "ALL-NEW DOCTOR WHO"!
 

MaKTaiL

Member
Do you guys remember when people thought Matt Smith was going to be a horrible Doctor? Fun times. I'm sure Kris will do a wonderful Doctor if it is indeed him.
 
Also: I honestly don't think they have cast the new Doctor yet. What we know of the timing behind the scenes says it really wouldn't have been worked out so soon.

Knowing the BBC, as soon as they know it, we'll know it. Press release on the same day they cross the t's and dot the i's. Probably with another video announcing the new Doctor, or maybe even another live show (and god I'm hoping for another awkward live show mess. Get One Direction back for this one!).

I'm assuming your referring to two seperate incidents here, but the One Direction cock up was for the 50th Anniversary after party and not Peter Capaldis Live announcement. :p
 

Platy

Member
Do you guys remember when people thought Matt Smith was going to be a horrible Doctor? Fun times. I'm sure Kris will do a wonderful Doctor if it is indeed him.

I don't think it is much of an acting problem as it is a "another white dude, a young one even". Like he is not even red headed !
 
Do you guys remember when people thought Matt Smith was going to be a horrible Doctor? Fun times. I'm sure Kris will do a wonderful Doctor if it is indeed him.

I'm not prejuding the new guy, but Matt Smith was a horrible Doctor.

By far my least favorite of NuWho. The only one I don't like.
 

HigXx

Member
The best bit was when someone recorded Matt Smith down an elevator shaft shouting "Dalek" in a weird manner and Gallifrey Base was going insane hahahahaha
 
RIP Paterson Joseph.

Yeah, I'm with you here, but that's sort of what I mean when I think the Beeb would have reservations about this chap in particular. With Capaldi, the weight of his work, his love of the show and his obvious talent outweighs the representation argument. (And frankly, his gruff older Scotsman persona isn't something that we're drowning in throughout media either so I didn't think twice about his casting.)

Marshall brings nothing new to the table in those terms.

With Paterson it's worth pointing out Moffat has flat-out said that a black actor was offered the role for one of his regenerations but "it didn't work out", and given he's also said that Capaldi was the ONLY person who auditioned for 12 (whereas with 11 he openly said they auditioned loads of actors) we can assume Matt wasn't initially the first choice or was discovered in as second round of auditions after the first actor cast fell through. Given Moffat's comments about offering the role to a black actor but having it fall through and given how much smoke there was with Paterson, I'm strongly inclined to believe it was him. In light of Moffat's comments (recent, too - he said it when he talked about casting for Bill) I really do believe rumors were too prolific to be false and it actually was Paterson.
 
With Paterson it's worth pointing out Moffat has flat-out said that a black actor was offered the role for one of his regenerations but "it didn't work out", and given he's also said that Capaldi was the ONLY person who auditioned for 12 we can assume Matt wasn't initially the first choice (or was discovered in as second round of auditions after the first actor cast fell through) - and given how much smoke there was with Paterson, I'm strongly inclined to believe it was him.

Oh yeah I don't think they were on the wrong track with that one, just that he's the most notable instance of a lot of Doctor-shaped smoke resulting in zero fire.
 

tomtom94

Member
Wait, didn't we find out it was Chiwetel Ejiofor?

"Sources" told the Radio Times it was Ejiofor. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016...e-role-of-the-11th-doctor-ahead-of-matt-smith

It's a real shame about Joseph because he'd have been a fantastic Doctor but I think he's aged himself out of the role. Same with Alexander Siddig (imagine him as Nine)

EDIT: For clarity, it's less that I think the Doctor shouldn't be an old man (though I think they will go the younger route) and more that Joseph and Siddig would be too old to play the version they'd be best at, in my view.
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
FYI, Series 10's Season premiere had 921,000 watchers in North America according to the ratings. Greatly down from Series 9's premiere of 1,971,000, and Series 8's premiere of 2,200,000. The coveted 18-49 demographic drop is even more depressing.

Doctor Who's number are really bad compared to Series 8 and 9, could it be that a shift from fall combined with a hiatus really affected ratings or did people just not care about series 10 because Capaldi is leaving after this?
 

hamchan

Member
Hiatus, loss of mindshare and maybe people really are just sick of Moffat's style. Basically perfect time for the revamp.
 

tomtom94

Member
FYI, Series 10's Season premiere had 921,000 watchers in North America according to the ratings. Greatly down from Series 9's premiere of 1,971,000, and Series 8's premiere of 2,200,000. The coveted 18-49 demographic drop is even more depressing.

Doctor Who's number are really bad compared to Series 8 and 9, could it be that a shift from fall combined with a hiatus really affected ratings or did people just not care about series 10 because Capaldi is leaving after this?

Ouch, BBC are going to have Moffat by the balls for the production of the Christmas special if that keeps up. Probably the former rather than the latter.

How does that compare to other ratings on the same day (i.e. was there a particular reason)?
 
FYI, Series 10's Season premiere had 921,000 watchers in North America according to the ratings. Greatly down from Series 9's premiere of 1,971,000, and Series 8's premiere of 2,200,000. The coveted 18-49 demographic drop is even more depressing.

Doctor Who's number are really bad compared to Series 8 and 9, could it be that a shift from fall combined with a hiatus really affected ratings or did people just not care about series 10 because Capaldi is leaving after this?
Partially audience apathy from the past couple of years. The show hit a high point in season 5 that season 6 didn't do well by. Since then it's been a downward spiral.

They also don't really spend money advertising it.
 

Dalek

Member
FYI, Series 10's Season premiere had 921,000 watchers in North America according to the ratings. Greatly down from Series 9's premiere of 1,971,000, and Series 8's premiere of 2,200,000. The coveted 18-49 demographic drop is even more depressing.

Doctor Who's number are really bad compared to Series 8 and 9, could it be that a shift from fall combined with a hiatus really affected ratings or did people just not care about series 10 because Capaldi is leaving after this?

That's awful. I wonder how much of that is related to streaming instead of viewing live?
 
That's not great, but this series is basically a dead rubber ratings-wise anyway. We'll see how Chibnall's big relaunch stacks up.

Also... any Americans feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Easter-time a much worse time to launch a TV series than the autumn for you guys? Both series 8 and 9 launched in August to September.
 
Do you guys remember when people thought Matt Smith was going to be a horrible Doctor? Fun times. I'm sure Kris will do a wonderful Doctor if it is indeed him.

Who said he was going to be horrible? I'm sure he'd do a fine job. Just a boring choice overall.

FYI, Series 10's Season premiere had 921,000 watchers in North America according to the ratings. Greatly down from Series 9's premiere of 1,971,000, and Series 8's premiere of 2,200,000. The coveted 18-49 demographic drop is even more depressing.

Doctor Who's number are really bad compared to Series 8 and 9, could it be that a shift from fall combined with a hiatus really affected ratings or did people just not care about series 10 because Capaldi is leaving after this?

Like I said, you want people to think "ALL-NEW, ALL-INTERESTING DOCTOR WHO", not "Oh, that works".
 
FYI, Series 10's Season premiere had 921,000 watchers in North America according to the ratings. Greatly down from Series 9's premiere of 1,971,000, and Series 8's premiere of 2,200,000. The coveted 18-49 demographic drop is even more depressing.

Doctor Who's number are really bad compared to Series 8 and 9, could it be that a shift from fall combined with a hiatus really affected ratings or did people just not care about series 10 because Capaldi is leaving after this?
CANCELLATION INCOMING
/S

But this can't hide the fact that there's a voice in the darkest part of my soul telling me that this is more likely than I'd like to think it isn't.

A million is quite a lot though isn't it :/
 

Davide

Member
Netflix was probably a huge factor in making Doctor Who popular in North America during the Smith era, taking it off was a big mistake.

The marketing campaign on social media has also been lame. I haven't watched the premiere myself yet.
 

tomtom94

Member
Steven Moffat's 30-second summary of Smile.

This is the episode I've been most apprehensive about. The idea of "emojibots" is up there with sleepydust monsters, Doctor Who has a bad track record with these "mandatory happiness" stories, and while I think Cottrell-Boyce has a knack for Who dialogue ITFOTN was just plain crap. The only good news is if it's a dialogue-heavy episode that might suit him.
 
Steven Moffat's 30-second summary of Smile.

This is the episode I've been most apprehensive about. The idea of "emojibots" is up there with sleepydust monsters, Doctor Who has a bad track record with these "mandatory happiness" stories, and while I think Cottrell-Boyce has a knack for Who dialogue ITFOTN was just plain crap. The only good news is if it's a dialogue-heavy episode that might suit him.

Happiness Patrol is one of my favourite eps

candyman 4 life
 
CANCELLATION INCOMING
/S

But this can't hide the fact that there's a voice in the darkest part of my soul telling me that this is more likely than I'd like to think it isn't.

A million is quite a lot though isn't it :/

Those are just BBC America numbers, no? I do think the series has cooled a bit in the USA.
 
The show just needs to refocus on trying to be a cultural landmark in the UK again the way it was during RTD's tenure and for Moffat's first year. Series 6 on that edge was really lost in the UK (anniversary year madness aside) and I think that's part of where it's lost its way. Focus back home, and America and worldwide will come, I think.
 
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