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[Dice]

So I did a little research to see if there is any plausibility to Syria's claims. Here are my findings from a more detailed look:

1) Syria has been bombing the shit out of the area for seven weeks.
2) They have given chances for anyone who wants to leave to leave. Tens of thousands including two rebel factions had taken them up on the idea. Russia facilitated the evacuations.
3) The rebels had been holding at least 200 people there hostage for years. (Why would the government gas a place holding hostages they want to recover for a big show of celebration/government victory?)
4) The last rebel faction holding out, Jaysh al-Islam, had claimed responsibility for the 2012 Damascus bombing that killed Defense Minister Dawoud Rajiha, Deputy Defense Minister Asef Shawkat, and Assistant Vice President Hassan Turkmani. Yeah, that is a good way to make the government come after you.
5) This faction is notorious for hiding behind civilians, and "occupying" them by forcing civilians to be hosts of their siege upon the state.
6) On 7 April 2016, the Sheikh Maqsood neighborhood in Aleppo was shelled with mortars containing chemical agents. On 8 April, a spokesman for the rebel group admitted that “forbidden” weapons had been used against Kurdish militia and civilians in Aleppo. He stated that “One of our commanders has unlawfully used a type of weapon that is not included in our list”. He did not specify what substances were used but, according to Red Crescent, the symptoms are consistent with the use of chlorine gas or other agents. Welat Memo, a physician with the Kurdish Red Crescent said that the people affected are "vomiting and having difficulty in breathing."

Does the picture look a little different now? This is why I want evidence.

Syria's government forces are surrounding the area and not letting anyone investigate.

They let Russia investigate. Us not liking either of them is not valid grounds to throw accusations based on wild presumptions to justify military action against them. That is, unless you think Russia should have a right to do that against the UK, who still has not even allowed family to visit a Russian citizen in stable condition at the hospital there.

 

[Corrik]

Lmfao. Literally a Russian government shill in here.

So, Syria is so innocent that they won't let anyone investigate to confirm they are innocent. (UN multinational teams exist for this sort of thing).

Man, you cannot be serious. Sorry, but I can't respond anymore without getting condescending. I will just say to think what you want! As long as it sounds good to you!

 

[Dice]

I am a shill for listing facts and coming to no conclusions. Sure.

 

[dolabla]

The thing that makes this extremely suspect is the timing. Heck, when was the last time Syria even used chemical weapons before this supposed incident? Why now? Literally days after the biggest gift he's ever received in his lifetime.

I just don't see why Assad would bring this horrible attention on himself when everything was pretty much wrapped up and US troops (along with maybe other allies?) were about to be on their way out. No way can he really be that dumb to just throw it all away like that in exchange for possibly having to fight for him and his regime's survival.

 

[Corrik]

The thing that makes this extremely suspect is the timing. Heck, when was the last time Syria even used chemical weapons before this supposed incident? Why now? Literally days after the biggest gift he's ever received in his lifetime.

I just don't see why Assad would bring this horrible attention on himself when everything was pretty much wrapped up and US troops (along with maybe other allies?) were about to be on their way out. No way can he really be that dumb to just throw it all away like that in exchange for possibly having to fight for him and his regime's survival.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/08/world/middleeast/syria-chemical-attacks-assad.html

They have been doing it. They are trying to create a collapse of the rebels via fear.

"The U.N. Security Council will meet twice on Monday following rival requests by Russia and the United States.

U.N. war crimes investigators had previously documented 33 chemical attacks in Syria, attributing 27 to the Assad government, which has repeatedly denied using the weapons.

Russia has repeatedly blocked efforts to hold Syria accountable both at the U.N. and OPCW."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...o-pay-for-syria-chemical-attack-idUSKBN1HE0RR

 

[appaws]

So I did a little research to see if there is any plausibility to Syria's claims. Here are my findings from a more detailed look:

1) Syria has been bombing the shit out of the area for seven weeks.
2) They have given chances for anyone who wants to leave to leave. Tens of thousands including two rebel factions had taken them up on the idea. Russia facilitated the evacuations.
3) The rebels had been holding at least 200 people there hostage for years. (Why would the government gas a place holding hostages they want to recover for a big show of celebration/government victory?)
4) The last rebel faction holding out, Jaysh al-Islam, had claimed responsibility for the 2012 Damascus bombing that killed Defense Minister Dawoud Rajiha, Deputy Defense Minister Asef Shawkat, and Assistant Vice President Hassan Turkmani. Yeah, that is a good way to make the government come after you.
5) This faction is notorious for hiding behind civilians, and "occupying" them by forcing civilians to be hosts of their siege upon the state.
6) On 7 April 2016, the Sheikh Maqsood neighborhood in Aleppo was shelled with mortars containing chemical agents. On 8 April, a spokesman for the rebel group admitted that “forbidden” weapons had been used against Kurdish militia and civilians in Aleppo. He stated that “One of our commanders has unlawfully used a type of weapon that is not included in our list”. He did not specify what substances were used but, according to Red Crescent, the symptoms are consistent with the use of chlorine gas or other agents. Welat Memo, a physician with the Kurdish Red Crescent said that the people affected are "vomiting and having difficulty in breathing."

Does the picture look a little different now? This is why I want evidence.

They let Russia investigate. Us not liking either of them is not valid grounds to throw accusations based on wild presumptions to justify military action against them. That is, unless you think Russia should have a right to do that against the UK, who still has not even allowed family to visit a Russian citizen in stable condition at the hospital there.

Great post. The war party is out in full force because Trump was really considering getting us clear of this mess.

This is all bullshit. There is no reason for Assad to do this. He can pile the bodies high enough with conventional weapons and Russian help.

There are no magical good guys in Syria who are going to create a free and democratic regime if Assad goes down. And the Russians are not going away, they are heavily invested and have built permanent bases there.

Grow up Americans....we are not a special group appointed by God to run the world. We can't give ourselves spheres of influence all over the globe and then scold other powers like Russia and China for doing the same thing. An alliance of the United States and Russia is the future of world stability and checking Chinese aspirations, and it is coming down the pike probably within 20 years.

As an aside...it is so interesting that the same lefty types who were gullible dupes of Soviet propaganda and completely suspicious of the awful US foreign policy during the Cold War (and they were right about that, and it HAS NOT CHANGED!) are now these anti-Russian war hawks and believe any salacious Putin story that comes out of the neoconservative beltway shit stains. My theory is that it stems from his support for traditional Russian Orthodox moral positions and the fact that he is a big meanie to terrible female punk bands. Just a theory though...I could be wrong.

 

[Corrik]

..it is so interesting that the same lefty types who were gullible dupes of Soviet propaganda and completely suspicious of the awful US foreign policy during the Cold War (and they were right about that, and it HAS NOT CHANGED!) are now these anti-Russian war hawks and believe any salacious Putin story that comes out of the neoconservative beltway shit stains.

This is one hell of a wild post.

 

[MisterFalcon]

So I did a little research to see if there is any plausibility to Syria's claims. Here are my findings from a more detailed look:


6) On 7 April 2016, the Sheikh Maqsood neighborhood in Aleppo was shelled with mortars containing chemical agents. On 8 April, a spokesman for the rebel group admitted that “forbidden” weapons had been used against Kurdish militia and civilians in Aleppo. He stated that “One of our commanders has unlawfully used a type of weapon that is not included in our list”. He did not specify what substances were used but, according to Red Crescent, the symptoms are consistent with the use of chlorine gas or other agents. Welat Memo, a physician with the Kurdish Red Crescent said that the people affected are "vomiting and having difficulty in breathing."

They may be crazy jihadists but even they accept that using chemical weapons is wrong and accept they should not have used it. That's two steps further on the human decency scale compared to how far Assad and Putin are willing to go.

The rest of your argument make no compelling case the regime did not use chemical weapons in Douma. The group that blew up Assad's brother in law would be high on the list of targets for the most destructive weapons.

 

[Corrik]

They may be crazy jihadists but even they accept that using chemical weapons is wrong and accept they should not have used it. That's two steps further on the human decency scale compared to how far Assad and Putin are willing to go.

The rest of your argument make no compelling case the regime did not use chemical weapons in Douma. The group that blew up Assad's brother in law would be high on the list of targets for the most destructive weapons.

The fact they won't let investigators in to examine it and they have been found to of been at fault for over 20 chemical attacks already / chlorine-based chemical attacks that were not on their list of chemicals to destroy, just makes it extremely obvious as to who was behind it.

They had an enemy they couldn't push out of the area no matter what they did. Who had been pounded into submission over and over and still were holding out. They used the chlorine chemical attack to get them to surrender and also to show pockets throughout the nation what they were willing to do to achieve victory.

Russia will block it in the UN, and they will both keep investigators out in order to just deny it and let people like above actually believe their nonsense.



The other guy attributed "Lefty's" listening to neoconservative stains or whatever. NeoConservatives are mostly Republican. Bush was a Neocon. Trump has been lining his cabinets with neocons for months now. I am a Republican myself, which is why I find being called a left funny.

That said, I wish we would have stayed out of Syria all together. We should focus on our own nation. However, we cannot allow someone using chemical weapons on populaces to run unchecked. Assad is himself making the case to build a coalition against him without even the need to use diplomacy to build one.

Not sure what the appropriate response should be, but it cannot run unchecked.

Obama and Hillary had two such drastic ideas on the situation while Trump is probably in the best position as right in the middle (though you could argue Hillary looks better in hindsight - makes me want to vomit to say that).

Obama drew the red line with no intention to back it up. Made an empty threat as he let Syria get to where it was, let Russia enter in on Syria's side, and also let Russia invade Ukraine. Hillary wanted a no fly zone by the United States from day 1 which would have been tantamount to a declaration of war on Russia.

Trump is in the middle, and it leaves him with Obama's mess to try and clean up somehow. Not sure what the appropriate response is, but I will be interested to see what this administration comes up with.

 

[Dice]

The rest of your argument make no compelling case the regime did not use chemical weapons in Douma. The group that blew up Assad's brother in law would be high on the list of targets for the most destructive weapons.

See you're starting from "Give me a good reason to not think that he did"

I'm starting from "Give me evidence mutually agreeable between all global powers for anyone being named because geopolitics can't work like interpersonal relationships and holy shit this mess could trip the end of us all if we get so caught up in moral condemnation of a figurehead that we look past what is at stake"

This isn't like stopping a serial killer within your own country.

 

[Corrik]

See you're starting from "Give me a good reason to not think that he did"

I'm starting from "Give me evidence mutually agreeable between all global powers for anyone being named because geopolitics can't work like interpersonal relationships and holy shit this mess could trip the end of us all if we get so caught up in moral condemnation of a figurehead that we look past what is at stake"

This isn't like stopping a serial killer within your own country.

You literally made a stance then said let me go read up on it. You already had your mind made up on the "truth" of it before even knowing anything about it.

 

[Dice]

You literally made a stance then said let me go read up on it. You already had your mind made up on the "truth" of it before even knowing anything about it.

I never took a stance on what happened. My stance was literally the absence of a stance. My stance was that no workable hard evidence had been brought forth, which is still a fact. MY stance was not to establish "the truth" of it, but to point out the plain reality that despite all the assertions, no one had properly established any truth about what took place.

My research on further details was to demonstrate that it is not "lmao so crazy like a conspiracy theorist" to say that anything but your asserted presumptions were plausible. I was not creating any stance with a list of facts. I was bringing the exact same kind of information that they would bring up if there would be a formal meeting between nations and someone would ask how their story could even be possible.

Would it quite possibly be total bullshitting from them? Yes. But you can't prove that with the total absence of hard evidence provided thus far. No military info. No tracking data. No satellite data. No pictures. No samples. Your story has no substance behind it. It is literally nothing but different officials saying "I believe" while providing no basis but that Assad sucks. But when examining just how much of a mess things have been, and the fact that yes those exact rebels had used chlorine gas, it makes Assad's story possible.

If you want to counter that fact, you need data of your own. That is how geopolitics work, not by news media pundit reasoning. It isn't about convincing people, it is about proving what you claim, and you do it that way because a hell of a lot more than a hundred people will die if we initiate a physical response to prevent him from acting within his own country that isn't undeniably justified.

 

[llien]

Took literally first post to mention Obama. Has to be a new record.

I find Obama's red line to be a relevant mention.

Horrible situation over there. It makes you wonder if it would be better now if Obama enforced his "line in the sand" when he attempted to confront the issue.

But we had Trump's tomahawk rain:



A while before the attack, Russsians made noise about how Syria was protected with C400 systems and how nothing "hostily" could fly over Syria anymore. Ukrainians making fun of that:

 

[Corrik]

I never took a stance on what happened. My stance was literally the absence of a stance. My stance was that no workable hard evidence had been brought forth, which is still a fact. MY stance was not to establish "the truth" of it, but to point out the plain reality that despite all the assertions, no one had properly established any truth about what took place.

My research on further details was to demonstrate that it is not "lmao so crazy like a conspiracy theorist" to say that anything but your asserted presumptions were plausible. I was not creating any stance with a list of facts. I was bringing the exact same kind of information that they would bring up if there would be a formal meeting between nations and someone would ask how their story could even be possible.

Would it quite possibly be total bullshitting from them? Yes. But you can't prove that with the total absence of hard evidence provided thus far. No military info. No tracking data. No satellite data. No pictures. No samples. Your story has no substance behind it. It is literally nothing but different officials saying "I believe" while providing no basis but that Assad sucks. But when examining just how much of a mess things have been, and the fact that yes those exact rebels had used chlorine gas, it makes Assad's story possible.

If you want to counter that fact, you need data of your own. That is how geopolitics work, not by news media pundit reasoning. It isn't about convincing people, it is about proving what you claim, and you do it that way because a hell of a lot more than a hundred people will die if we initiate a physical response to prevent him from acting within his own country that isn't undeniably justified.

"If Syria and Russia can successfully not let anyone get data to prove who did it then Syria and Russia did not do it"

What a stance to take.

Can't stop laughing.

You basically just made an "if a tree falls in the woods with no one to hear it" statement in regards to gassing children. Wow.

Anyways, France and the United States already said they are compiling a dossier based on eye witnesses, reports, and satellite imaging to present to the UN in regarda. And, Trump has already said that he would not take any action until it is proven definitively who did it (which he thinks will be successfully compiled within 48 hours of yesterday).

Also want to point out that your prior posts even stated that the chlorine smell was how you knew it wasn't likely "sarin", and you were asking where the "sarin barrels" were if true.

You reek of someone making it up as you go to support the stance you want to be correct.

Just lol.

 

[Dice]

"If Syria and Russia can successfully not let anyone get data to prove who did it then Syria and Russia did not do it"

I never said that they did not do it. I never said that I believe they did not do it. Those are things that you have repeatedly (literally, every single response to me) read into my posts and mocked me for despite my repeated clarifications. If you have a problem with reading comprehension, do not understand what "taking a stance" actually means, or just like deliberately putting words in people's mouths based on what you feel like they think so you can be condescending to imaginary characterizations of people in threads you're posting in, that is an issue with you, not me.

Again, I am not talking about what seems most-likely or what is convincing to a great number of people. I am talking about making an actual substantiated case when you come out against another country that is being protected by a very powerful country that is nearly allied with another very powerful country. Especially in cases where many countries and factions have vested interests in manipulating the situation in their favor, making every one of them suspicious about any claims.

Furthermore, my references to sarin had to do with the earliest reports, which were all a bunch of unfounded, unconfirmed information being cobbled together as an attack against Putin. I brought reasons to believe it was not sarin specifically to point out the unreliability and sensationalism of our news media as a reason to seek actual findings of substance rather than just reacting to assertions being thrown around everywhere. I am not making it up as I go along, I am responding to media that has been doing so.

I am not surprised that news reports have shifted away from the first claims of sarin to chlorine gas, since that is what all the details have pointed to from the beginning. They just threw mention of sarin out there because of people choking and it having happened in Syria. That is how stupid they were being and exactly why I started on this point of seeking something real when it comes to these serious matters, not just narratives.

I am glad that they are supposedly assembling a real case before doing anything. However, in their early statements which I responded to, they made no mention of having any real information or proofs. They simply made condemnations first on the basis of not liking Assad, which only gave Russia a chance to make a display of frustration, which led China to say Russia has their support if things get bad. Do you see how it is good to get your presentation together before throwing accusations?

Oh wait, of course not, seeing as how you've been making shit up about my beliefs the entire thread.

 

[Mahadev]

"If Syria and Russia can successfully not let anyone get data to prove who did it then Syria and Russia did not do it"

What a stance to take.

Can't stop laughing.

You basically just made an "if a tree falls in the woods with no one to hear it" statement in regards to gassing children. Wow.

Anyways, France and the United States already said they are compiling a dossier based on eye witnesses, reports, and satellite imaging to present to the UN in regarda. And, Trump has already said that he would not take any action until it is proven definitively who did it (which he thinks will be successfully compiled within 48 hours of yesterday).

Also want to point out that your prior posts even stated that the chlorine smell was how you knew it wasn't likely "sarin", and you were asking where the "sarin barrels" were if true.

You reek of someone making it up as you go to support the stance you want to be correct.

Just lol.

Calm down ffs. You spam ad hominem crap all over the thread demanding your view to be the only one and it's getting annoying. And lol at the notion that the US narrative is the only correct and honest one, you haven't been reading too much history, have you?

 

[Corrik]

Calm down ffs. You spam ad hominem crap all over the thread demanding your view to be the only one and it's getting annoying. And lol at the notion that the US narrative is the only correct and honest one, you haven't been reading too much history, have you?

Post you quoted is not "ad hominem". And lol at spamming. I am responding to posts. It is what you do in a discussion topic. 0.o

 

[MisterFalcon]

Calm down ffs. You spam ad hominem crap all over the thread demanding your view to be the only one and it's getting annoying. And lol at the notion that the US narrative is the only correct and honest one, you haven't been reading too much history, have you?

You at least have to accept it's possible for the US to be correct.

 

[Mahadev]

You at least have to accept it's possible for the US to be correct.

Of course I do. I was talking to a dude that was calling people Russian shills and generally being rude because someone dared to be suspicious about this.

 

[dolabla]

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/08/world/middleeast/syria-chemical-attacks-assad.html

They have been doing it. They are trying to create a collapse of the rebels via fear.

"The U.N. Security Council will meet twice on Monday following rival requests by Russia and the United States.

U.N. war crimes investigators had previously documented 33 chemical attacks in Syria, attributing 27 to the Assad government, which has repeatedly denied using the weapons.

Russia has repeatedly blocked efforts to hold Syria accountable both at the U.N. and OPCW."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...o-pay-for-syria-chemical-attack-idUSKBN1HE0RR

So a year since they supposedly last used chemical weapons? And both happened literally days after pretty big announcements (Trump abandoning the goal of trying to oust Assad last year and US troops withdrawing soon this year).

He very much could be responsible for both and may be wanting a death wish for doing such an idiotic thing after getting such great news (from his perspective), but the way it's gone down and how the government has lied to us before and the type of enemies he's fighting against (terrorists), it dang sure makes me question what they're trying to tell me.

 

[Scopa]

Lmfao. Literally a Russian government shill in here.

So, Syria is so innocent that they won't let anyone investigate to confirm they are innocent. (UN multinational teams exist for this sort of thing).

Man, you cannot be serious. Sorry, but I can't respond anymore without getting condescending. I will just say to think what you want! As long as it sounds good to you!

I completely agree with what he is saying and I’m an Aussie. Not American. Not Russian. Not an idiot either. I am watching this pile of shit unfold objectively. Except I don’t just read the western press reports and unquestioningly accept it as truth. It is smart to ask for evidence before you believe anything. It is dumb not to.

Am I a Russian shill? News to me! If I am, I am still waiting for my pay check comrades.

I delve deep before I believe anything. I do my own research. I recently contacted the BBC questioning the veracity of one of their main sources on the Syria conflict, as they use it extensively and most often solely.

Their response to my query? I’m paraphrasing, but basically “well, other news outlets use this same source, so there is nothing wrong with it.”

They did not answer any of my queries on how they substantiated this source. Completely ignored that bit. “Other people say it too, so it must be true”.

Stellar journalism.

You should never mock anyone for using their brain. It says more about you than them. Food for thought.

 

[Corrik]

I completely agree with what he is saying and I’m an Aussie. Not American. Not Russian. Not an idiot either. I am watching this pile of shit unfold objectively. Except I don’t just read the western press reports and unquestioningly accept it as truth. It is smart to ask for evidence before you believe anything. It is dumb not to.

Am I a Russian shill? News to me! If I am, I am still waiting for my pay check comrades.

I delve deep before I believe anything. I do my own research. I recently contacted the BBC questioning the veracity of one of their main sources on the Syria conflict, as they use it extensively and most often solely.

Their response to my query? I’m paraphrasing, but basically “well, other news outlets use this same source, so there is nothing wrong with it.”

They did not answer any of my queries on how they substantiated this source. Completely ignored that bit. “Other people say it too, so it must be true”.

Stellar journalism.

You should never mock anyone for using their brain. It says more about you than them. Food for thought.

"It didn't happen because Russia and Syria said it didn't. Trust them because they won't let anyone else on the ground to investigate! *Wink*"

Why can not a single one of you explain why they refuse to let independent investigators in to come to a conclusion regarding it?

A regime that has already 27 verified chemical attacks to its name to this point.

 

[jufonuk]

Alright, so this now turning into a proxy war or is shit gonna go south ?

 

[Dice]

"It didn't happen because Russia and Syria said it didn't. Trust them because they won't let anyone else on the ground to investigate! *Wink*"

You’re just a troll at this point. No one here has made that argument. Your posturing does that create the reality that you desire. Deal wth what people have actually said. You’re acting like the lady in the Jordan Peterson gender wage gap interview.

Why can not a single one of you explain why they refuse to let independent investigators in to come to a conclusion regarding it?

Probably because nearly every single one of our officials have said Assad is a monster and the world should work together to end his regime. Doesn’t exactly facilitate diplomacy. Russia isn’t really interested because of how western nations have handled the Middle East since WWI. That and giving Turkey, terrorists, and Saudi Arabia free access to each other right next to Israel isn’t exactly in their interests.

A regime that has already 27 verified chemical attacks to its name to this point.

So what makes this one an urgent game changer, now that Russia is there and it is the most dangerous to do anything? Isn’t this the time to be extra careful and substantiate everything as well as you can and get agreement from as many countries as possible?

 

[Corrik]

You’re just a troll at this point. No one here has made that argument. Your posturing does that create the reality that you desire. Deal wth what people have actually said. You’re acting like the lady in the Jordan Peterson gender wage gap interview.

Probably because nearly every single one of our officials have said Assad is a monster and the world should work together to end his regime. Doesn’t exactly facilitate diplomacy. Russia isn’t really interested because of how western nations have handled the Middle East since WWI. That and giving Turkey, terrorists, and Saudi Arabia free access to each other right next to Israel isn’t exactly in their interests.

So what makes this one an urgent game changer, now that Russia is there and it is the most dangerous to do anything? Isn’t this the time to be extra careful and substantiate everything as well as you can and get agreement from as many countries as possible?

You seriously are just talking without facts. This is not the first one with Russia there. Do you not remember our cruise missile attack last time? Do you remember Trump saying if another happened that the consequences would be worse? They are forcing Trump's hand to act.

You just said we should be extra careful to validate everything while also admitting that Syria and Russia are purposely not letting anyone validate anything. You are arguing outside two sides of your mouth now. Arguing that Syria and Russia are justified to not let anyone on the ground while also arguing that we should have to validate things when someone is purposely not letting us.

You just defended Russia again. Funny for someone who is not pro-Russia and just "pure facts". Russia is just so dismayed at how Western powers have treated the Middle East. That is Russia's major qualm! Except, you know, Russia has done the same.

You are arguing UN independent teams shouldn't be allowed on the ground by Syria and Russia justifiably because they are biased against Assad. However, they have verified 6 chemical attacks in Syria not perpetuated by Syria's government or at least didn't have evidence to attribute to them. Of the 33 27 were by the government and 6 were not accounted to them. All the sudden Syria and Russia are not letting them go into verify now.

You can call me a troll all you want, but that doesn't change how you are talking in multiple different directions to defend Russia at every point, while also adamantly stating you are doing nothing of the sort besides just looking at facts.

 

[Dice]

No, you just think that being realistic about Russia getting their way for a measure of time in a particular situation means it is a pro-Russia view. Rather, it is a “this situation sucks, but let’s not start WW3” approach. If you are a global power you cannot just do whatever you want because something is upsetting to you. There is a balance of powers and negotiation with those you are opposed to comes into play.

As I said, it is not the same as catching a serial killer within your own country. If you try to just shut down a sovereign nation because you decided they did something that not everyone agrees they did, some of whom are very powerful nations who do not want you to shut them down, your moral indignation will bring an evil into the world millions of times worse than the one you’re trying to eliminate.

This is chess and you seem to just want to play cowboys.

 

[TrainedRage]

To be fair the timing of all these attacks is very suspicious IMO. Im not going to pretend I know what truly happened but if this was all done by Assad he has the biggest set of balls the modern world has ever seen.

 

[rokkerkory]

Surgical strikes needed imo

 

[Corrik]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...kes-into-syria-in-next-72-hours-idUSKBN1HI01E

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/171317


Looks like there will be attacks into Syria soon.

 

[Dice]

The US is sending an air carrier.
https://www.rt.com/usa/423744-us-aircraft-truman-syria/

The entire Russian military has been put on high alert.
http://defence-blog.com/news/russia-suddenly-puts-troops-alert.html

Well boys, it has been a good life. I hope we get to continue enjoying it.

In the meantime, you might want to ask why this developing crisis isn't in our news media.

 

[TheShadowLord]

The US is sending an air carrier.
https://www.rt.com/usa/423744-us-aircraft-truman-syria/

The entire Russian military has been put on high alert.
http://defence-blog.com/news/russia-suddenly-puts-troops-alert.html

Well boys, it has been a good life. I hope we get to continue enjoying it.

In the meantime, you might want to ask why this developing crisis isn't in our news media.

Why should I trust what RT or what some Ukrainanian blog says? If you don't want to trust our Politicians saying that the Assad regime was responsible for the latest chemical attack (or what happened last month in London), I don't have to trust what a government news-outlet has to say until our news media or politicians admitting it. Seems only fair ¯\_(ツ)_/¯..

 

[Dice]

There are plenty of other sources to confirm, but if you want to deny reality, that is fine. The ships will take a while to come into range. Hopefully the generals will deny any suicidal orders given by the insane cabinet. I have seen them struggle with politicians before.

 

[Corrik]

Your own source says it is just replacing a current strike group there whose deployment is up.

That said, WW3 isn't going to happen over Syria.

 

[llien]

Russia isn’t really interested because of how western nations have handled the Middle East since WWI.

And what was wrong with handling Israel vs Egypt?

Anyhow, Russia's main interest seems to orbit around "KGB colonel's bad memories about lost Cold War". It is particularly amusing in North Korea's case. There were so much easier ways to kill LItvinenko, but Putin needed to scratch itching ego. So "why would Russia do it", the main point that you are making, is moot.

 

[JDB]

Interesting approach for someone who in the past wanted "to be unpredictable" and doesn’t “want the enemy to know" about military plans.

 

[Jmarshall]

Whether or not this incident is false flag situation is now and forever moot. the USA believes it to a real chemical attack by the Syrian government and it now brings us to a very dangerous moment in the foreign policy clusterfuck that is Syria.

Trump does not has one iota of foreign policy understanding, he has no strategic thinking and acts on dangerous whims, show him a picture of a dead baby and he'll want to launch a Cruise missile somewhere. Now with McMaster gone in favour of Bolton The USA doesn't have the caution to counter Trump's excesses of hubris and anger.

This is one to watch, hopefully I'm wrong and the USA with restrain itself to limited and end goal strikes to debilitate the Syrian Arab Army's offensive capacity without totally destroying it, giving succour to the Islamists on the ground.

 

[Scopa]

Interesting approach for someone who in the past wanted "to be unpredictable" and doesn’t “want the enemy to know" about military plans.

Jesus Christ, please tell me that is fake...

 

[appaws]

The other guy attributed "Lefty's" listening to neoconservative stains or whatever. NeoConservatives are mostly Republican. Bush was a Neocon. Trump has been lining his cabinets with neocons for months now. I am a Republican myself, which is why I find being called a left funny.

You are completely missing what I am saying. I am actually talking about leftists. During the cold war, they were knee-jerk pro-Soviet and doubted anything neoconservatives said. Now they are knee-jerk the other way and are buying into the neoconservative war mongering. I am not saying you are a lefty, I am saying lefties are dumb enough to be fooled by the propaganda of the war party.

We are being tricked into a stupid and catastrophic war. 1980s American dupes were tricked by fear of communism. 2018 American dupes are being tricked by phony atrocities staged in a land where real atrocities are so common that we are willing to suspend disbelief.

Don't be fooled. There are no cruise missiles or air strikes that are going to get us what we want in Syria. There are no "moderate" rebels in Syria who will turn it into a nice democratic vacation spot. The Russians have built permanent bases there and are not going anywhere short of a major war. We have to accept not being a world hegemon...I just don't want to have to see people die to learn the lesson.

 

[GAFDooMsDaY]

Syria's literal response was that they must have accidentally hit a chemical weapon storage area during their attack.

Russia was the one who planted the "lol must have been a 'false flag'"

Syrian state news agent is denying any involvement . You know it's bad when even fox talking heads are seeing through the BS

and wow at Corrik calling someone a Russian shill because he didn't agree with his points . Is this real life?

 

[dolabla]

Terrorists around the world as celebrating right now if the US dumb enough bomb the hell out of Syria on their way to ousting Assad. All the groups that were formed by the helping hand of the US: Al-Qaeda, Taliban, what's left of ISIS, etc all send their thank you cards. It seems US leaders have not learned and will always be catastrophic failures on the Middle East.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Wait, I thought that when the US started bombing ISIS that was the greatest gift to terrorists ever.

 

[appaws]

They will learn when their phones don't stop ringing and a couple million of us are in the street.

We can't solve the world's problems, and even if there are areas where we can help it will be with soft power and economic influence and not military action.

We are poking a nuclear armed bear in a country where we have NO rational interest to do so. I voted for Trump because of Hillary and her stupid no-fly zone. Big mistake. I was naive in thinking that he had defeated the neocons in the primary and that middle-American non-interventionism was going to carry the day. The beltway traitors wont give up so easily. Get the pitchforks.

 

[llien]

Terrorists around the world as celebrating right now if the US dumb enough bomb the hell out of Syria on their way to ousting Assad.

There is no way to stop Assad by a single bombing campaign (likely mass Tomahawk).
However, there MUST be a clear and painful to regime response to the chemical attack.

 

[dolabla]

ISIS = a problem the US created by shit middle eastern policy. It's like trying to undo your own mess, but in the process you're about to create more mess (trying to oust Assad). It's a never ending cycle. I'm just wondering, if this somehow goes through, what will the new terrorist group's name that will form out of this?

The damage is already done in the middle east though. This has been going on for 30+ years.

 

[mcz117chief]

The US is sending an air carrier.
https://www.rt.com/usa/423744-us-aircraft-truman-syria/

The entire Russian military has been put on high alert.
http://defence-blog.com/news/russia-suddenly-puts-troops-alert.html

Well boys, it has been a good life. I hope we get to continue enjoying it.

In the meantime, you might want to ask why this developing crisis isn't in our news media.

Nobody wants to upset the status quo, especially not the Russians. Their economy is trash and they have no hope in opposing the United States. Like one man recently said: Russia is just a gas station with nukes. They have nothing aside from oil. The moment we stop or limit the usage of oil Russia goes under faster than you can say "blyat". This is honestly the fakest attack since the Gleiwitz or Mukden incident, somebody wants to keep the area destabilised at any costs.

 

[Corrik]

Interesting approach for someone who in the past wanted "to be unpredictable" and doesn’t “want the enemy to know" about military plans.

Well, let's be honest. Russia already knows we are coming. His comments regarding that were in regards to ISIS and us announcing which town we would attack next.

Edit: It has come to my attention that he said this also in another context to Obama attacking Syria in relation to chemical attacks. Thus, I am pretty much wrong here.

 

[Corrik]

Syrian state news agent is denying any involvement . You know it's bad when even fox talking heads are seeing through the BS

and wow at Corrik calling someone a Russian shill because he didn't agree with his points . Is this real life?

Sure is real life. He has shown time and time again that he is just flat out defending Russia without even knowing what he is talking about while putting it under a guise of fact finding (which does not line up with his comments).

What a time to be alive!

 

[jufonuk]

Time to dig up my garden and pour some concrete ?

Bbc had to post this

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-43732320/experts-are-we-heading-for-a-third-world-war

 

[rokkerkory]

beautiful our wonderful 45th with no real damn plan or strategy on Syria

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/11/politics/donald-trump-syria-tweets/index.html

A Syria decision hadn't been made when Trump tweeted missiles 'will be coming'

 

[dolabla]

Good. Hopefully that means we don't go any further and stay the hell out of this senseless war that does nothing for US interests. Time to bring the boys home like originally planned.