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[Gloam]

Might be a little late to the share your DQ experience portion of the thread, seeing as we've moved on to how disappointing DQX's OST is, at least it has a decent battle tune.

The first Dragon Quest game released in Europe was DQVIII, so I don't have the childhood connection that a lot of American or Japanese folks have to the series. I first encountered Dragon Warrior through a friend of mine who used to buy a lot of bootleg games from the Canary Islands whenever he'd go on holiday.

I borrowed his copy of DQI+II one summer for a family trip to Portugal. I had a lot of fun with the game, though I wasn't the biggest fan of JRPGs, I had played FFVII and VIII to keep up with the Jonses, and beyond that most of my RPG experience was with Vagrant Story and the Might and Magic games on PC. Anyhow, I cleared DQ1 over the holiday but didn't get into DQ2 as much, maybe it was going from the first to the second so quickly, might have burnt me out a bit.

For years after that I didn't really think about Dragon Warrior/Quest until I saw this review on Consolevania the game looked stunning and was getting some good press in the UK games magazines, so I thought, "why not?".

I was very charmed by DQVIII at the time but hit a stumbling block around the thrity hour mark. Then, for a long time I didn't touch the game for a long time. Until, the summer of 2009, in fact.

That summer another friend of mine was playing through DQVIII and we talked about the game pretty regularly as we were making progress. I wrapped the game up by the end of July and started playing DQIV on DS concurrently. After that I filled in all of the blanks, including DQ2 and up to DQX, which I really enjoyed putting about 200 hours into it, despite my not-so-good grasp of Japanese.

As far as ranking the series, I think they're all pretty great in their own ways and so it's not a wholly worthwhile pursuit.

 

[Magicpaint]

Yeah DQIX's music was disappointing. The truly original stuff was beautiful like the Observatory theme (Heaven's Prayer?) but as has been said already so much of the soundtrack is rehashed. So so disappointed it didn't even have a new ship/sea theme. Those are always highlights.

Ugh, I know, right?

I gave up and started replaying it on PS1. Just as awesome as I remembered it, part of me was afraid it would be too ugly or it wouldn't have aged well, but I'm still having a blast with it.

I don't even think it looks ugly tbh, the enemy sprites in particular still look and animate well. It looks just like the DS remakes of IV/V/VI.

 

[Gloam]

I don't even think it looks ugly tbh, the enemy sprites in particular still look and animate well. It looks just like the DS remakes of IV/V/VI.

Yeah, I think of you take it out of the context of how it looked at the time of release. Today, it has a certain something special about the simplicity of its visuals. As you mentioned, the monsters are definitely a highlight.

The main benefit of the remake is a streamlining of certain aspects that make the game a little bit easier to get your head around.

 

[Lightning Lord]

Ugh, I know, right?

I gave up and started replaying it on PS1. Just as awesome as I remembered it, part of me was afraid it would be too ugly or it wouldn't have aged well, but I'm still having a blast with it.

I've been thinking of replaying a DQ game, one of them being VII because it's one of my favorites. At the same time, the length kinda puts me off on it, which is why I'd really love that remake to come out so I have a better reason to go back through the entire game again.

I might just replay DQV instead.

 

[turnbuckle]

Yeah, I think of you take it out of the context of how it looked at the time of release. Today, it has a certain something special about the simplicity of its visuals. As you mentioned, the monsters are definitely a highlight.

The enemy sprites and animations were about the only good looking thing in Dragon Warrior VII. It was an absolutely hideous game otherwise from a visual standpoint. Especially for its time. It came out after the PS2 was already released in Japan, and by the time we got it in North America in late 2001 Final Fantasy X was nearing release (and was already out several months earlier in Japan). Not to mention other PS1 JRPGs that looked much more attractive.

I love the game. But it is ugly. The SNES games look far better overall to me than VII. They also look a lot better than the DS games IMO. I would love for there to be more indie homages to Dragon Quest using that 16 bit simple, clean, colorful style.

I think Dragon Quest IX could be a beautiful game if it were to get a remake on the 3DS.

I think one thing I loved about the 16 bit games is that the visuals didn't look like they were being held back by the hardware, but rather the visuals were designed around creating beauty within the limitations it presented. Dragon Quest VIII was the same - an attractive game that's look will be timeless. Dragon Quest IX looked like a game struggling to get by on the DS. Dragon Warrior VII looked like a low-rent game not worthy of the franchise. But it was a damn fine game regardless.

 

[Jucksalbe]

The enemy sprites and animations were about the only good looking thing in Dragon Warrior VII. It was an absolutely hideous game otherwise from a visual standpoint. Especially for its time.

Yeah, I remember that I already thought it was ugly when I imported it at release. The worst are definitely the video sequences, thankfully it doesn't have all that many.
But it's not a distracting ugliness, so in the end I'm okay with it and today with a little bit more distance it matters even less. Kinda like Xenogears, which is also incredibly ugly and still a great game.

 

[Aeana]

I never found DQ7 ugly. I don't understand why people insist that DQ7 is ugly but don't throw those criticisms right at the DS remakes since they're the same. The only difference is how large the screen is.

 

[Refyref]

Eh, I find DQ7 and the DS remakes charming. DS remakes maybe a bit more due to polishing up a few things, but overall I like that engine.

 

[terrisus]

I think one thing I loved about the 16 bit games is that the visuals didn't look like they were being held back by the hardware, but rather the visuals were designed around creating beauty within the limitations it presented. Dragon Quest VIII was the same - an attractive game that's look will be timeless. Dragon Quest IX looked like a game struggling to get by on the DS. Dragon Warrior VII looked like a low-rent game not worthy of the franchise. But it was a damn fine game regardless.

And similarly with the DS remakes of 4-6 - it just feels like they're trying to do something with the hardware that they shouldn't have been trying to do, and it just doesn't work as well.

But then, I typically prefer 2D over 3D in general anyway.

 

[turnbuckle]

I never found DQ7 ugly. I don't understand why people insist that DQ7 is ugly but don't throw those criticisms right at the DS remakes since they're the same. The only difference is how large the screen is.

A lot of people threw the same insults towards the DS remakes - myself included. I'm not sure what you're talking about...it was a very common criticism back in the day. The DS games looked better than VII but worse than the SNES games.

 

[Aeana]

A lot of people threw the same insults towards the DS remakes - myself included. I'm not sure what you're talking about...it was a very common criticism back in the day. The DS games looked better than VII but worse than the SNES games.

It was a common criticism toward 7 but not at all a common criticism toward the DS remakes.

 

[turnbuckle]

It was a common criticism toward 7 but not at all a common criticism toward the DS remakes.

It most definitely was

 

[Jucksalbe]

I never found DQ7 ugly. I don't understand why people insist that DQ7 is ugly but don't throw those criticisms right at the DS remakes since they're the same. The only difference is how large the screen is.

The screen makes quite a bit of a difference, but the DS remakes also look a little bit better in general.
But as I said, for me it's the FMVs that really stick out the most. And some of the battle backgrounds.

 

[Man God]

Most of VII's criticism was a product of the year it was released though if I'm honest with myself I do prefer the look of IV-VI DS than VII PSX.

Haven't played VII 3DS yet so I can't compare the two.

 

[Aeana]

It most definitely was

If anything, there was a lot of praise about how charming they looked. I really don't know what you're on about.

 

[Gloam]

Haven't played VII 3DS yet so I can't compare the two.

Graphics are very pleasing in the remake, though the camera does betray a lot of pop-up in the world map. Some of the textures are a little low-res too. Looks better than the TOSE Monsters games for sure. Though I can't speak to the graphics in the new Monsters game for the 3DS.

 

[turnbuckle]

If anything, there was a lot of praise about how charming they looked. I really don't know what you're on about.

Likewise. Very common complaint was the step back in visual quality from people loving the SNES sprites.

It was common, not on the level of dqvii criticism at all but you can find what I'm talking about if you looked. I'm responding because you seemed to call me a hypocrite for calling dqvii ugly. I thought they all were worse than the SNES games visually. But the DS games, while using a similar style, looked better than DQ VII.

I'm typing from my phone while on a treadmill lol. I would do some citations otherwise.

 

[johnsmith]

DQ7 and the DS remakes are all equally hideous.

The only difference is how large the screen is.

This is a huge difference and the main reason. Bad graphics at a big size look a lot worse.

 

[Aeana]

Likewise. Very common complaint was the step back in visual quality from people loving the SNES sprites.

It was common, not on the level of dqvii criticism at all but you can find what I'm talking about if you looked. I'm responding because you seemed to call me a hypocrite for calling dqvii ugly. I thought they all were worse than the SNES games visually. But the DS games, while using a similar style, looked better than DQ VII.

I'm typing from my phone while on a treadmill lol. I would do some citations otherwise.

Most people who played the DS remakes had not even played the SNES versions, because they were not available officially in English. I'm sure you can find virtually any opinion ever expressed if you look.
I wasn't necessarily talking about your response specifically, just a general feeling from an aggregate of gamers who seem to have some sort of double standard.

 

[Refyref]

Most people who played the DS remakes had not even played the SNES versions, because they were not available officially in English. I'm sure you can find virtually any opinion ever expressed if you look.
I wasn't necessarily talking about your response specifically, just a general feeling from an aggregate of gamers who seem to have some sort of double standard.

To be fair, the one area in which the DS remakes are different than DQ7 is the interface, which is cleaner. Usually I find that the interface is very influential on the opinion of the overall look of the game. That's why some people think the DQ remakes look better than DQ7 despite a similar look.

 

[turnbuckle]

Most people who played the DS remakes had not even played the SNES versions, because they were not available officially in English. I'm sure you can find virtually any opinion ever expressed if you look.
I wasn't necessarily talking about your response specifically, just a general feeling from an aggregate of gamers who seem to have some sort of double standard.

Yes you can find "virtually any opinion ever expressed", but the one I'm expressing isn't so esoteric to warrant making such a statement.

 

[terrisus]

It was a common criticism toward 7 but not at all a common criticism toward the DS remakes.

I don't know, I think that "DS-quality 3D" or the like as a pejorative is/was pretty common.
Sure, it got better as the system went on, but, Dragon Quest 4-6, Final Fantasy IV, Phantom Hourglass, and the others like that have always looked pretty lousy to me.

 

[Aeana]

I don't know, I think that "DS-quality 3D" or the like as a pejorative is/was pretty common.
Sure, it got better as the system went on, but, Dragon Quest 4-6, Final Fantasy IV, Phantom Hourglass, and the others like that have always looked pretty lousy to me.

I was thinking about it and I think a decent explanation for the phenomenon I observed was that people were comparing them to FF3/4 DS and preferred the DQ look.

 

[terrisus]

I was thinking about it and I think a decent explanation for the phenomenon I observed was that people were comparing them to FF3/4 DS and preferred the DQ look.

I could see that comparison being made, yeah.
Still though, it seems more like a "lesser of two evils" comparison, as opposed to the actual good choice of just keeping it 2D.

 

[turnbuckle]

I was thinking about it and I think a decent explanation for the phenomenon I observed was that people were comparing them to FF3/4 DS and preferred the DQ look.

That I can agree with 1000%.

I was cool with how the DS Dragon quest games looked. Disappointed when comparing to the 16 bit versions, but I thought they looked ok. The DS remakes of final fantasy were hideous abominations I wish I never wasted money on.

 

[bagandscalpel]

Personally, while the 3D models of the world for the DS remakes could have meshed better with the nice sprites, I do think they made certain set pieces pretty cool.

e.g. The moving colossus in IV and the launching of Chamoro's ship in VI come to mind.

 

[Gloam]

Personally, while the 3D models of the world for the DS remakes could have meshed better with the nice sprites, I do think they made certain set pieces pretty cool.

e.g. The moving colossus in IV and the launching of Chamoro's ship in VI come to mind.

The 3D rotation was handy in dungeons too, you could see a little bit more of what was ahead fo you by adjusting the camera angle, handy for spotting treasure chests.

 

[Magicpaint]

Personally, while the 3D models of the world for the DS remakes could have meshed better with the nice sprites, I do think they made certain set pieces pretty cool.

e.g. The moving colossus in IV and the launching of Chamoro's ship in VI come to mind.

Yeah. Especially that ship scene. I thought it looked heaps better than the SFC scene (and several other scenes too). I was also sorta impressed how they adapted many of the cutscenes from the PS2 version of DQV to the DS version with the engine as well. They certainly got better with the engine with time and DQVI, I thought was a genuinely great looking game. But then again my tolerance for rudimentary 3D is high, as I think FFIII/IV DS also looked really nice.

The 3D rotation was handy in dungeons too, you could see a little bit more of what was ahead fo you by adjusting the camera angle, handy for spotting treasure chests.

Yep. Camera rotation is one of my favourite things in DQVII and the DS remakes. It makes moving around and exploring more fun than before.

 

[Just take it with you.]

I definitely remember poking fun at VII's looks back in the day, especially as it was coming on the heels of stuff like FFIX, BoF4, VS, etc.

Also, that squat style that Toriyama used for the game doesn't help matters being sandwiched between VI and VIII, IMO.

The DS remakes of final fantasy were hideous abominations I wish I never wasted money on.

No kidding. I still wish we'd gotten an FF3 remake done in the same style as the FF1+2 remakes on Wonderswan/PSX.

 

[Man God]

V on the SFC is kinda ugly though while VI and the three remake games look good.

 

[randomkid]

No hypocrisy in the randomkid household, I've been steadfast in my dislike of every aesthetic element in DQ7 and the DS ports (except for the nicely animated monsters) since 2001.

My first experience with DQ was playing the gorgeous DQ6 on Super Famicom so dealing with 100 hours of DQ7 ugliness years and years later was a severe disappointment. Picking up DQ8 and Rocket Slime was a return to my expectations for Dragon Quest as a series with top of the line master class visuals. I've come to understand that this is a sort of unique perspective based on my own personal circumstances, but it's the main reason I turned my nose up at all of the DS ports, I was just plain unwilling to deal with the compromised visuals and sound, which is such an important part of my regard for this franchise.

Thankfully DQ5 has the wonderful PS2 version which I'm so so happy I waited to play. With Super Famicom versions of 1, 2, 3 and 6, and the 3DS version of 7, that really only leaves 4 as the only DQ lacking a version that meets my aesthetic needs, since if I recall, the PSX version of that was not so hot.

 

[Aeana]

I personally really liked how the games looked, there's this interesting storybook quality to them, especially DQ4r.
There's nothing wrong with the PSX version, but it looks just like the DS version outside of a few minor touchups, so yeah.

 

[Gloam]

I personally really liked how the games looked, there's this interesting storybook quality to them, especially DQ4r.
There's nothing wrong with the PSX version, but it looks just like the DS version outside of a few minor touchups, so yeah.

How did you find the remake of VII?

 

[Sojiro]

Most of VII's criticism was a product of the year it was released though if I'm honest with myself I do prefer the look of IV-VI DS than VII PSX.

Haven't played VII 3DS yet so I can't compare the two.

I agree. With the PS2 so close to its release the biggest issue to me is just the time it was released. Granted you could find other PS1 RPG's that look vastly better, but at the same time I don't think it looks horrible, no more than a lot of other PS1 games for the time. I will say, playing it on the PS2 and using the smooth textures option cleans up a sprites quite a bit. When I discovered this I haven't gone back to playing it without it on.

On another note, this thread really has me wanting to play another DQ game again. I ordered a slim PS2 off ebay today, to try and finally get to play DQ VIII since my current OG PS2 just will not read the disc no matter what I do. I also thought about starting up DQ VII to finally finish it, but that is going to be a quite an endeavor. So I will either get impatient and start DQ VII or hold out for VIII. Either way good times to be had.

 

[terrisus]

Most of VII's criticism was a product of the year it was released

I agree. With the PS2 so close to its release the biggest issue to me is just the time it was released.

Ah, Dragon Warrior 3 and 4 both released in the US after the SNES came out.
Granted, neither sold that great here (and in turn we didn't even get 5 and 6), but I don't recall many complaining about the graphics that much.

Similarly, Dragon Quest VI came out in Japan a year after the PS1 had came out.


Of course, much of the reason for all of those is that 2D ages better than 3D, and that early 3D was pretty bad.
But, that's just all the more reason to have kept things 2D.

 

[Jucksalbe]

Maribel's just mean...

...or brutally honest.

 

[turnbuckle]

V on the SFC is kinda ugly though while VI and the three remake games look good.

Yeah, V wasn't the prettiest game either. But I honestly prefer the clean, simple look of it than the DS remake. I haven't had a chance to play the PS2 version yet but from the videos I've watched it looks beautiful. It looks like how I'd want every Dragon Quest remake to look.

If I were a wealthy man I would use my fortune to fund remakes of the series with PS IV / Vita cross-play.

Spoiler

If I had the money, I'd also fund Final Fantasy remakes using the same engine as the PSP Final Fantasy IV. Some didn't like the redrawn art but I thought it was a brilliant adaptation of the original. Thinking of Final Fantasy VI with that same care makes me weep for what we ended up getting. The smartphone version is serviceable for what it is but...ugh....I'd rather just play that on my SNES

 

[Sojiro]

Of course, much of the reason for all of those is that 2D ages better than 3D, and that early 3D was pretty bad.

I can definitely agree with you there, not to mention 2D (especially the 16 bit era) has a certain charm to it that is very nostalgic. Even though looks may have suffered, I don't fault them for making the game 3D. Regardless of looks, its still really good, and I do personally enjoy the movement and camera playing in a 3D world offers.

 

[Faustek]

So just wondering if anyone here was interested in getting a free copy of the EU(region free) DS version of DQMJ.

Rummaging through my DQ games I saw that I had a few copies of that game. No idea why though.

Oh and when I say free I mean free, no strings attached.

Spoiler

if I'm committing a faux pas or breaking a rule please don't ban me.

Fake edit: I should add I want to give it to someone that really wants to play it instead of just filling a collection.

 

[Magicpaint]

Already have a copy of that myself but I love that game! I still need to acquire a copy of DQM2J though. I'm still mad we didn't get that version of Joker 2.

I can definitely agree with you there, not to mention 2D (especially the 16 bit era) has a certain charm to it that is very nostalgic. Even though looks may have suffered, I don't fault them for making the game 3D. Regardless of looks, its still really good, and I do personally enjoy the movement and camera playing in a 3D world offers.

Yeah I personally don't care about 2D like that. Sure it's pretty and nostalgic but I think the other games are pretty too and come with extra conveniences that just won't be possible in 2D so I'm cool.

 

[Gloam]

Got to get me one of these!

 

[urfe]

Are we complaining about VIIr's graphics? I think the look decent and just wish the camera was a little more zoomed out.

The PSX game I forgave because it seemed to stand as an anti-FF to me: graphics a second thought and NPC script/battle stat (actual RPG elements) were carefully done.

Dragon Quest V looks as good as FFIV and V to me, and VI as good as VI.

 

[Faustek]

Are we complaining about VIIr's graphics? I think the look decent and just wish the camera was a little more zoomed out.

The PSX game I forgave because it seemed to stand as an anti-FF to me: graphics a second thought and NPC script/battle stat (actual RPG elements) were carefully done.

Dragon Quest V looks as good as FFIV and V to me, and VI as good as VI.

Honestly, to me, I can't follow that. I don't know if it was due to the different expectations, probably, but I never once thought that the graphics where lacking. I was probably blinded by all the stories and the design to notice or care.

 

[Earthpainting]

Love me some Dragon Quest. It's one of type of games where I can just get lost in when I play. I'll obsessively talk to every NPC, not because I fear of missing anything, but because I want to talk to them. A few years ago when I was playing the DS remake of DQV, a friend of mine made the suggestion of stop being a thief when I wasn't actually playing as anyone using a thief class. Basically what this meant was that if NPCs don't give you explicit permission to take the contents of their home's chests or wardrobes or bags, you should leave 'em alone. Arbitrary layer of challenge for silly role-playing reasons, but I'm all about that so I was more than happy to try. While the amount of loot I got was a lot lower than normally, I couldn't help but be charmed every time an NPC kindly told me to help myself to some of their possessions. I've been playing these games like this ever since.

Dragon Quest V looks as good as FFIV and V to me, and VI as good as VI.

I won't stick my hand in the fire for FFIV, but FFV is a vastly better looking game than DQV. They might use similar proportions, but the technically quality of the map tiles is just in a whole different league.

It's a little weird to me to have this conversation in the first place. With the exception of VI and VIII, none of the mainline games look too hot. I figured people would be used to this by now. It's not a series that earned its respect by visual splendour, and that's fine. Most entries look serviceable, and while a nicer look would be preferable, I don't really care either way. VIII is a great looking game, but it also happens to be one of my least liked entries in the series. Can't really help but the coincidence there.

 

[Regulus Tera]

This thread is just great. I picked up Dragon Quest VI again and I just got past the part where I get Goowian. I'm loving the vocation system a lot, and I can't wait until I can start grinding my vocations willy nilly.

I just realised I never fought any legacy bosses in IX. Can I still get their maps somehow?

 

[CorvoSol]

So I'm playing DQ 4 and I got to the part where you're a family man and on the one hand, the shop running minigame is booooooooooooooooring as fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

On the other hand, it's probably the single most entertaining moment in any of the 3 non-Monsters Dragon Quest games I've ever played from a narrative standpoint. I mean, Torneko is a dude who has to feed a wife and kid and his salary is terrible. People coming in and asking outlandish prices for stuff they're selling, or losers who are like "Oh I don't have space in my pocket!" are infuriating as all get out, and so the whole thing is this kind of quirky look at the life of a shopkeeper in a typical fantasy RPG world. The dullness of it actually makes sense, since I'm just a dude in a shop watching as people make quick stops during their adventure.

This was originally an NES game, right? If so, it's not hard to see how this particular chapter of the game would become so popular. Especially since it's a great change of pace from the previous two by-the-books chapters of the game.

Of course, dissing Dragon Quest, especially an old Dragon Quest game, for being by-the-books is probably the height of absurdity. It's like dissing a textbook for giving too many textbook answers or complaining that cow's milk tastes too much like cow's milk.

 

[Aeana]

Most people didn't really view it as dull, but rather humorous as you watch customers do things you probably do a lot in RPGs from the other end.

The excitement of someone selling a cautery sword to you is still great for me even today, too. It means I'm gonna be making sooo much money.

 

[bagandscalpel]

People coming in and asking outlandish prices for stuff they're selling

"Hello, is this the weapon shop?"
> yes

"I have a weapon I'd like to sell, would you be interested in it?"
> yes

"It is poo-on-a-stick, can I get 5,500 gold for it?"
> NO

 

[CorvoSol]

Most people didn't really view it as dull, but rather humorous as you watch customers do things you probably do a lot in RPGs from the other end.

The excitement of someone selling a cautery sword to you is still great for me even today, too. It means I'm gonna be making sooo much money.

At the end of that day I made a paltry 300g, though. In other chapters you can make that kind of money outside town beating up monsters. And after the second day you've seen every single possible one of the 4-5 dialogue paths of the 4-5 different NPC types, so mostly it's just a novel concept with dreadfully repetitive execution.

It's interesting, but my God is it boring at the same time.

 

[Refyref]

I remember that after a few days there wasn't any point to being in the store anymore, since you could already make it to the dungeons outside.